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frontrunner3
02-06-2004, 05:49 PM
A caller just called in to the wise guys show on the score stating that the sox and reds had a deal in place pending physicals that would send Billy Koch and Paul Konerko to the reds for Chris Reitsma and Ken Griffey Jr. I personally love this deal if it is indeed true!!

SEALgep
02-06-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by frontrunner3
A caller just called in to the wise guys show on the score stating that the sox and reds had a deal in place pending physicals that would send Billy Koch and Paul Konerko to the reds for Chris Reitsma and Ken Griffey Jr. I personally love this deal if it is indeed true!! If Griffey isn't a FA next year, then the deal sucks.

Daver
02-06-2004, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by frontrunner3
A caller just called in to the wise guys show on the score stating that the sox and reds had a deal in place pending physicals that would send Billy Koch and Paul Konerko to the reds for Chris Reitsma and Ken Griffey Jr. I personally love this deal if it is indeed true!!

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

RKMeibalane
02-06-2004, 06:06 PM
I would do this deal in nanosecond... if I knew that Griffey would be healthy for the rest of his career. Since nobody knows whether Griffey can play a full season free of injuries, this trade is too risky. Konerko had a bad season last year, but at least he gave the Sox some production. Griffey wasn't around enough to give the Reds anything offensively in 2003.

sas1974
02-06-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by frontrunner3
A caller just called in to the wise guys show on the score stating that the sox and reds had a deal in place pending physicals that would send Billy Koch and Paul Konerko to the reds for Chris Reitsma and Ken Griffey Jr. I personally love this deal if it is indeed true!!

I have always been a big fan of Jr., but then there's the obvious injury issues. I recall he wasn't ever a big fan of working out, which I am guessing is part of the reason for some of those injuries. I have also heard he's not what you'd call a spark plug in the clubhouse. What does he have left on the deal he signed?

ChiWhiteSox1337
02-06-2004, 06:14 PM
He has an insane amount of years and the cash goes up each year. No way would I do this unless the reds were paying for jr

dickallen15
02-06-2004, 06:14 PM
This deal is a bunch of bull. No way the Sox pick up the rest of Griffey's contract. There are many years left on it.

poorme
02-06-2004, 06:14 PM
No way. Impossible. I don't believe it.

<dreaming> griffey would be a great dh, with frank at first.

ChiSox7
02-06-2004, 06:14 PM
12.5 mil a year until 2008. Then team option or 4 mil buyout

mike squires
02-06-2004, 06:16 PM
It would be a gamble but so it having Konerko in the line; up everyday hitting into all of his double plays and sweating everytime Kock took the mound if he doesn't return to form.

That being said Griffey would be a gamble but what if he had another awesome year and is healthy? Thomas/Ordonez/Griffey/Lee :o:

Palehose13
02-06-2004, 06:18 PM
Jr's contract:

2003: $12.5M
2004: $12.5M
2005: $12.5M
2006: $12.5M
2007: $12.5M
2008: $12.5M
2009: Team option with $4.0M buyout

Source (http://www.bluemanc.demon.co.uk/baseball/mlb/mlbcong.htm)

Edit: Sorry for the duplivate of Chi7's post...must have been typing as he was writing.

SEALgep
02-06-2004, 06:20 PM
That would essentially eliminate any hope of resigning Maggs.

dickallen15
02-06-2004, 06:20 PM
Considering the White Sox don't want to give Magglio basically that same contract, I am quite sure Griffey won't be sitting on Herm Schneider's table any time soon.

sas1974
02-06-2004, 06:21 PM
Yes, but just think we will be able to witness him chasing Hank Aaron's HR record....Oh wait it's not 1992. I guess people don't talk about that anymore.

dickallen15
02-06-2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
Yes, but just think we will be able to witness him chasing Hank Aaron's HR record....Oh wait it's not 1992. I guess people don't talk about that anymore.

He does have 481 homers, so we'd be able to see him go for number 500 in 2006.

joecrede
02-06-2004, 06:27 PM
Looking at this, (http://dugoutdollars.blogspot.com/2003_11_23_dugoutdollars_archive.html) I'm surmising that Griffey's Salary from '04-'08 is $12.94M per year, with only $6M per year paid up front. The other $7.94M per is deferred with payments being made from 2009 thru 2024.

SEALgep
02-06-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Considering the White Sox don't want to give Magglio basically that same contract, I am quite sure Griffey won't be sitting on Herm Schneider's table any time soon.

Who said the Sox don't want to pay something similar for Maggs? They'll offer him a contract. He was the one who didn't want to negotiate, not the Sox.

carusochop
02-06-2004, 06:43 PM
I think it would be a good idea. We get rid of both Koch's and Konerko's salary, which would equal a lot of the money. Not to mention Reitsma is a decent pitcher. Griffey is still a great ballplayer and I'd be willing to take the risk.

Deadguy
02-06-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by frontrunner3
A caller just called in to the wise guys show on the score stating that the sox and reds had a deal in place pending physicals that would send Billy Koch and Paul Konerko to the reds for Chris Reitsma and Ken Griffey Jr. I personally love this deal if it is indeed true!! '

What's Konerko going to do, move back to 3B?

What would the Reds do with Sean Casey?

joecrede
02-06-2004, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
'

What's Konerko going to do, move back to 3B?

What would the Reds do with Sean Casey?

Konerko'd move on to LA for Perez. :D:

Palehose13
02-06-2004, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Konerko'd move on to LA for Perez. :D:
So LA would trade Perez to the Reds for Konerko, but not the Sox? Nevermind...stranger things have happened.

dickallen15
02-06-2004, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Who said the Sox don't want to pay something similar for Maggs? They'll offer him a contract. He was the one who didn't want to negotiate, not the Sox.

The Sox offered him $10 million a year for 4 yrs. If they are now willing to pick up the $66 million still owed Griffey, a guy who hasn't hit .300 since 1997, a guy who hasn't played a full season in 4 years, a guy whose bat has obviously slowed, you would think they would offer the cornerstone of their team, a guy who puts up better numbers, and has a much better chance to stay healthy, at least that much. The fact that Griffey is also considered a baby doesn't help. This trade is not happening. Its a bunch of crap.

joecrede
02-06-2004, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
The Sox offered him $10 million a year for 4 yrs. If they are now willing to pick up the $66 million still owed Griffey, a guy who hasn't hit .300 since 1997, a guy who hasn't played a full season in 4 years, a guy whose bat has obviously slowed, you would think they would offer the cornerstone of their team, a guy who puts up better numbers, and has a much better chance to stay healthy, at least that much. The fact that Griffey is also considered a baby doesn't help. This trade is not happening. Its a bunch of crap.

Over half of Griffey's money is deffered though and they would be saving roughly $24M by dealing Konerko and Koch. They have enough payroll flexibillity to sign Ordonez if this rumored deal were to happen.

KingXerxes
02-06-2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
He does have 481 homers, so we'd be able to see him go for number 500 in 2006.

It is a rarity in my life when I am sitting alone reading something, and it causes me to laugh out loud. Congratulations dickallen15 - You made my day.

dickallen15
02-06-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Over half of Griffey's money is deffered though and they would be saving roughly $24M by dealing Konerko and Koch. They have enough payroll flexibillity to sign Ordonez if this rumored deal were to happen.


It makes no sense. Whether the money is deferred or not, it still must be paid. Griffey is a shell of his former self. He blows, and has for 3 straight seasons. He is older and may not be able to play CF anymore right now, never mind how bad of physical shape he will be in by the end of the contract. No one is going to pick that contract up. They have enough payroll flexibility to sign Ordonez now, Koch and Valentin are off the books after this season.

nitetrain8601
02-06-2004, 07:22 PM
I would like Griffey here. I wouldn't give up Koch though. I think he was injured all of last year and didn't want to mention it because he doesn't want to be considered a wuss. There's no other explanation on why his velocity dropped so rapidly.

Griffey I like and wouldn't mind taking a chance on, but I feel this deal isn't going to even be looked at. It's just what some caller said, or hopes happens.

joecrede
02-06-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
It makes no sense. Whether the money is deferred or not, it still must be paid. Griffey is a shell of his former self. He blows, and has for 3 straight seasons. He is older and may not be able to play CF anymore right now, never mind how bad of physical shape he will be in by the end of the contract. No one is going to pick that contract up. They have enough payroll flexibility to sign Ordonez now, Koch and Valentin are off the books after this season.

Koch and Konerko are owed $24M and blow, but they are healthy. Gambling $16M more (mostly deffrered) on Griffey being healthy is interesting from a risk/reward standpoint.

beckett21
02-06-2004, 07:58 PM
Please don't anyone take this personally, but what are we basing this latest "rumor" on? Some blowhard calling a talk show? This rumor mill is getting out of control, and we are behaving like a dog chasing his tail. I would like some evidence, something, ANYTHING to give merit to debating this laughable rumor. Where's kittle42 when you need him...

:threadsucks

(I have been waiting to use that one! :D: )

lowesox
02-06-2004, 07:59 PM
So this caller said the deal was pending physicals - as in it's almost done. I can't believe that. Why would somebody make something like this up. It's all weird.

The organization has left us starved for something to happen.

tanko
02-06-2004, 08:47 PM
Let's do it Griffey Thomas and Maggs at 3,4 ,5 in the order wow

Daver
02-06-2004, 09:11 PM
I highly doubt that this deal will ever see life outside talk radio,and for good reason.Ten years ago Ken Griffey jr. was the best CFer I have ever seen,now at ten years later he is a shadow of his former self,and not worth 12.5 mil a year.

At this point I don't think Magglio Ordonez is worth 12.5 mil a year either,with the market being what it is.The CBA that the MLBPA signed is going to continue to bite them in the ass for the next two years,and who knows what hell will break loose when it is up.

SoxFan76
02-06-2004, 09:50 PM
Wow, I forgot about Griffey. That's kind of sad. He was on pace to become a great player, and now I forget he even plays baseball.

Hey, I'd give him a chance. He was great in Seattle, moved to Cinncinatti and hasn't done anything, maybe Chicago could jumpstart the career? Ok, so I'm a little desperate for something to be excited about.

munchman33
02-06-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by tanko
Let's do it Griffey Thomas and Maggs at 3,4 ,5 in the order wow

I with you tanko. I'd put griffey in the middle though, as he's the lefty.

CWSGuy406
02-06-2004, 10:34 PM
IF: A huge if, because I highly doubt it, but IF this trade were to happen, is it a possibility Griffey could play DH, and Frank at first? Obviously, Frank would need to occasionally take the day off or just go to DH, and on a day like that we could sit Griffey/move him to center for a game.

Again, I doubt this will happen.

Brian26
02-06-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
It is a rarity in my life when I am sitting alone reading something, and it causes me to laugh out loud. Congratulations dickallen15 - You made my day.

Actually, I wanted to give kudos to dickallen15 too....I did a doubletake on that line because it was so darn clever. Nice job...I laughed out loud too. :D:

jordan23ventura
02-06-2004, 11:28 PM
I'd like to see this trade go through just so I can have a baseball card with Griffey in a Sox jersey.

Who knows, maybe we'd be screwed in the long run but at least it would give the media and organization as a whole some other big name player to pick on instead of Frank.

In all seriousness, Cincinnati is a festering plague of an organization behind only Detroit. At least Tampa Bay has key players in key spots that the club can build around. We should trust a Cincinnati trade just as much as a pair of flea market fresh "OAKEY's" - (if you look closely you can see that there is no space bewteen the E and L, thus making only an E).

dividedsk717
02-06-2004, 11:48 PM
There's NO WAY the Reds would make this deal.

A) Konerko and Koch make too much money. The Reds want their payroll to end up around $35 million.

B) They want prospects.

The Sox would be crazy to make this move; Cincy can't wait to dump Griffey because he's been more trouble than he's worth (problems in the locker room, production not equal to cost).

Bad move for the Sox, they're better off with what they have.

Bryan :gulp:

jordan23ventura
02-06-2004, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by dividedsk717
There's NO WAY the Reds would make this deal.

A) Konerko and Koch make too much money. The Reds want their payroll to end up around $35 million.

B) They want prospects.

The Sox would be crazy to make this move; Cincy can't wait to dump Griffey because he's been more trouble than he's worth (problems in the locker room, production not equal to cost).

Bad move for the Sox, they're better off with what they have.

Bryan :gulp:


What?

The Reds would "love us longtime" if we were stupid enough to pull the trigger on something like this. Koch could easily go before the AllStar break if he performs at all and if Konerko catches fire or even remains somewhat consistant he could go as well, freeing up his '05 salary and getting prospects as well. Besides even if Konerko couldn't be traded they would at least only be stuck with a high priced player who could play 150 games per year.

WinningUgly!
02-07-2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by SoxFan76
Hey, I'd give him a chance. He was great in Seattle, moved to Cinncinatti and hasn't done anything, maybe Chicago could jumpstart the career?

You don't take chances on players like Griffey...just get taken. He's not an injury risk, he's an injury certainty. Plus he's guaranteed a bazillion dollars over the rest of the decade. It'd be a different story if he was a FA or in the last year of his deal.

sas1974
02-07-2004, 02:31 AM
If Cinci is willing to pick up a chuck of his paycheck, I am all for it. He's not worth 12.5 anymore. I do think we should have him patrol CF though. If healthy, he's still a very good outfielder.

Actually, I haven't seen him play in so long, I could be way off on that one. Come to think of it, has ANYONE seen him play in the last few years?

Anyway...12.5 is too steep for a DH. If he can't play CF, they can keep him.

mantis1212
02-07-2004, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by frontrunner3
A caller just called in to the wise guys show on the score stating that the sox and reds had a deal in place pending physicals that would send Billy Koch and Paul Konerko to the reds for Chris Reitsma and Ken Griffey Jr. I personally love this deal if it is indeed true!!

two words: B S

gosox41
02-07-2004, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by frontrunner3
A caller just called in to the wise guys show on the score stating that the sox and reds had a deal in place pending physicals that would send Billy Koch and Paul Konerko to the reds for Chris Reitsma and Ken Griffey Jr. I personally love this deal if it is indeed true!!

Tihs would be a terrible deal unless the Reds pay some of that money Griffey is owed.

Bob

gosox41
02-07-2004, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by frontrunner3
A caller just called in to the wise guys show on the score stating that the sox and reds had a deal in place pending physicals that would send Billy Koch and Paul Konerko to the reds for Chris Reitsma and Ken Griffey Jr. I personally love this deal if it is indeed true!!

For what it's worth there's only one possible deal in the works for the Sox right now and I won't even mention more about it since it's a longshot to happen.

Bob

jabrch
02-07-2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by poorme
No way. Impossible. I don't believe it.

<dreaming> griffey would be a great dh, with frank at first.


Screw that - Griffey would make a great CF with Rowand playing in Charlotte.

fquaye149
02-07-2004, 10:56 AM
here's why this deal is bull****:


why would the reds trade their only bright spot in pitching for koch...when they need starting pitching...and a bonafide superstar coming off an off season for a soso star coming off a similar off season?....but dang...i'd do it in a second if i were kw

munchman33
02-07-2004, 12:21 PM
I wouldn't mind this deal so much, but I would expect the Reds to eat at least some of Griffey's contract. For that to happen, I would assume the Sox would be sending some prospects as well.

jeremyb1
02-07-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
here's why this deal is bull****:


why would the reds trade their only bright spot in pitching for koch...when they need starting pitching...and a bonafide superstar coming off an off season for a soso star coming off a similar off season?....but dang...i'd do it in a second if i were kw

To convince us to take an immovable salary from them. I don't think this deal is happening but because there's no way we'd take on that salary not because it doesn't work for the Reds.

Rex Hudler
02-07-2004, 02:29 PM
I don't think it is happening because the source is some guy calling into a radio show.

Deadguy
02-07-2004, 02:41 PM
(Thomas + Griffey) - (Konerko + Koch) = AL Central Title in 2004.

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/1994/0808_large.jpg

beckett21
02-07-2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
I don't think it is happening because the source is some guy calling into a radio show.

Well, yeah Rex, but after all it was the Wise Guys show...those guys are usually accurate!

I can't believe people are still debating this one.

Deadguy
02-07-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by beckett21

I can't believe people are still debating this one.

Yeah, with all the wheeling and dealing going on for the ChiSox this offseason, why are we wasting our time on fantasy threads like this? We should be arguing over Uribe's zone rating in comparison to other utility infielders!

beckett21
02-07-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Yeah, with all the wheeling and dealing going on for the ChiSox this offseason, why are we wasting our time on fantasy threads like this? We should be arguing over Uribe's zone rating in comparison to other utility infielders!

Hey feel free to debate whatever you want. I agree that these fantasies can be fun. But realistic? What is the source for this information? Far be it from me to portray myself as a baseball "expert", most people on this board know 1000 times more than me about a lot of these topics. I am not "connected" in any way shape or fashion to any inside info, nor will I ever claim to be. But this is another "rumor" based entirely on some guy who called the "Wise Guys". *****.

I think it is blatantly obvious that we will be playing the hand we have to open the season, management has made that pretty clear.

Rip me all you want; I stand by my previous position.

:threadsucks

And BTW KGJr. would be a BIG mistake.

lostinlife28
02-07-2004, 05:17 PM
The only reasonI can se ant validity to this rumor is this; It would follow in the footsteps of such great offseason moves of Todd Ritchie, David Wells, and Billy Kotch. Hell KW hasn't done anything to scare me yet this offseason. That's why this rumor is starting to sound a little true to me. Griffey would be on the DL by April, Paul will bat .340, with 35 bombs, and Kotch will lead the NL in saves. On a bright note, Maybe that would mean the Reds win the NL Central, and not the Cubs.

carusochop
02-07-2004, 06:10 PM
The more I think about it this deal doesn't make much sense for the Reds. They would have to be reassured that they could move Konerko or Casey to the Dodgers for Perez, otherwise they are stuck with two 1B (Konerko is not an OF or 3B) and they are moving Danny Graves back to the pen to close, so why would they need Koch. It can't happen, althought I maintain it would be a good trade.

depy48
02-07-2004, 06:17 PM
OK this deal has very little truth to it. I'm at school at the University of Dayton. I read the "Dayton Daily" newspaper, and i listen to Cincinatti's sportstalk radio station. I'm surrounded by a lot of diehard Reds fans (who are still on a high because the Bengals almost made the playoff). I havent heard anything about this deal. If i hear something, i'll post it. But as of now, nothing. To me at least, i think Griffey would play better in a change of scenery. Again, i'm exposed to many Reds fans and they have already given up on Griffey. I have heard that the Reds want to move Griffey, and are unhappy with the arbitration Rietsma went through. Oh well, i'm just dreaming of signing maggs long term and getting griffey. I'd be as happy as JR with a payroll under 30million, if the sox could keep Maggs and get Griffey.

Rex Hudler
02-07-2004, 07:15 PM
$62.5 million........

This is why this deal won't happen..... There is no way the Sox will take on this kind of commitment.

2000: $12.5M [$5.5M of 2000 salary deferred until 2009+]
2001: $12.5M [$6.5M from subsequent years deferred until
2009-2024]
2002: $12.5M
2003: $12.5M
2004: $12.5M
2005: $12.5M
2006: $12.5M
2007: $12.5M
2008: $12.5M
2009: Team option with $4.0M buyout

joecrede
02-07-2004, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
$62.5 million........

This is why this deal won't happen..... There is no way the Sox will take on this kind of commitment.

2000: $12.5M [$5.5M of 2000 salary deferred until 2009+]
2001: $12.5M [$6.5M from subsequent years deferred until
2009-2024]
2002: $12.5M
2003: $12.5M
2004: $12.5M
2005: $12.5M
2006: $12.5M
2007: $12.5M
2008: $12.5M
2009: Team option with $4.0M buyout

I don't think the financial obligation would be the reason the Sox wouldn't do this deal. With the salary they'd give up in Koch and Konerko, the Sox financial obligation to take on Griffey would be roughly $38M. That's less than their initial offer to Ordonez which was something in the range of 3yr/$45M.

The thinking could be start the year with Griffey and Ordonez, hope Griffey stays healthy, become the favorite in the division, hope by by winning a division to increase attendance enough to sign Ordonez in the offseason.

On the other hand, If they struggle, Ordonez could be dealt at the break for prospects and they'd still have Griffey.

I think it just comes down to whether or not you still think Griffey can play. I'm inclined to belief he can so I'd make the deal.

Rex Hudler
02-07-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
I don't think the financial obligation would be the reason the Sox wouldn't do this deal. With the salary they'd give up in Koch and Konerko, the Sox financial obligation to take on Griffey would be roughly $38M. That's less than their initial offer to Ordonez which was something in the range of 3yr/$45M.

The thinking could be start the year with Griffey and Ordonez, hope Griffey stays healthy, become the favorite in the division, hope by by winning a division to increase attendance enough to sign Ordonez in the offseason.

On the other hand, If they struggle, Ordonez could be dealt at the break for prospects and they'd still have Griffey.

I think it just comes down to whether or not you still think Griffey can play. I'm inclined to belief he can so I'd make the deal.

Griffey is on the downside of his career and hasn't produced big numbers since 2000. To think he will stay healthy enough and productive enough to earn that money is awfully optimistic. He is already 34 and showing no signs of being able to play into his 40's like Bonds.

joecrede
02-07-2004, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Griffey is on the downside of his career and hasn't produced big numbers since 2000. To think he will stay healthy enough and productive enough to earn that money is awfully optimistic. He is already 34 and showing no signs of being able to play into his 40's like Bonds.

Koch and Konerko at $24M or Griffey at $38M? I'd roll dice on Griffey.

Rex Hudler
02-07-2004, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Koch and Konerko at $24M or Griffey at $38M? I'd roll dice on Griffey.

No, that is Griffey for $39.375 (to be exact) AFTER Koch and Konerko are already paid for. Griffey's total price tag is $62.5 million remaining on his contract.

siugrad25
02-07-2004, 08:24 PM
There's been some really good discussion on this topic despite how probably unlikely it actually is to happening. Griffey Jr. would be a great addtion (IF healthy). An outfield of Lee, Griffey Jr. and Maggs sounds unbelievable. And while the infield still is going to rely on how well Harris does in addition to his stick at the top of the order, I would be happy with a Thomas, Harris, Valentin and Crede infield.

Plus I think adding Retisma would be a decent addition to fight for the No. 5 spot. I guess I've been drinking some of KW's strong drink lately and think that the Sox do have a chance at succeeding, and think, if this caller has any insight (which probably is doubtful) IMO the Sox could be a solid team to make possibly the ALCS... I know that's too optimistic, but getting an outfielder like Griffey and a pitcher like Retisma is filling two of my main question marks (CF, No. 5 pitcher). Enough for my rant... I like the thought of this, but not getting my hopes up too much despite constantly looking on here to see if it happens. :D:

joecrede
02-07-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
No, that is Griffey for $39.375 (to be exact) AFTER Koch and Konerko are already paid for. Griffey's total price tag is $62.5 million remaining on his contract.

Right. Simple math eludes me at times. It's more like Koch & Konerko for the next 5 years of Griffey @ $39M. I still think it comes down to a talent/health evaluation issue rather than a pure monetary one.

What would Griffey have to produce to earn that money?

How would Griffey's (4 years older than Maggs) production at roughly $32M over 4 years compare to Ordonez' at roughly $50M over that same time, figuring they don't sign him?

SEALgep
02-07-2004, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
[B

What would Griffey have to produce to earn that money?

[/B]

Be able to play for starters.

Jjav829
02-07-2004, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
(Thomas + Griffey) - (Konerko + Koch) = AL Central Title in 2004.

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/1994/0808_large.jpg

Thomas + Griffey = AL Central Title in 1994. Neither player is what they used to be so saying that those two would lead us to the 2004 central title isn't very likely to happen.

Not that I believe this "rumor" in the least bit...

SEALgep
02-07-2004, 09:13 PM
I too have no confidence in this trade happening, but if it did, you can be sure that on Griffey's way up to the podium to announce the transaction, he would trip over some wires and sustain a season ending injury.

Deadguy
02-07-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Thomas + Griffey = AL Central Title in 1994. Neither player is what they used to be so saying that those two would lead us to the 2004 central title isn't very likely to happen.

Not that I believe this "rumor" in the least bit...

KILL JOY

TheRockinMT
02-07-2004, 09:45 PM
Isn't Sean Casey still with the Reds? I know they traded about every veteran player they had of any worth but I think 1Bman Casey stayed. Where does that leave him and Konerko? No way the trade will happen.

dickallen15
02-07-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
No, that is Griffey for $39.375 (to be exact) AFTER Koch and Konerko are already paid for. Griffey's total price tag is $62.5 million remaining on his contract.

Its actually a $66.5 price tag on Griffey, there is a $4 million buyout.

SEALgep
02-07-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
Isn't Sean Casey still with the Reds? I know they traded about every veteran player they had of any worth but I think 1Bman Casey stayed. Where does that leave him and Konerko? No way the trade will happen.

Konerko is going to play short.

Rex Hudler
02-07-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Its actually a $66.5 price tag on Griffey, there is a $4 million buyout.

Damn, dickallen, that just shows I am not a math major, because I saw that and meant to add it in. Thanks for catching my mistake.

joecrede
02-07-2004, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Its actually a $66.5 price tag on Griffey, there is a $4 million buyout.

What does the deferred portion of the contract make the deal worth?

dickallen15
02-07-2004, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
What does the deferred portion of the contract make the deal worth?

More than any sane organization should be willing to pay a has-been.

mike squires
02-07-2004, 10:47 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by beckett21
[B]Please don't anyone take this personally, but what are we basing this latest "rumor" on? Some blowhard calling a talk show? This rumor mill is getting out of control, and we are behaving like a dog chasing his tail. I would like some evidence, something, ANYTHING to give merit to debating this laughable rumor. Where's kittle42 when you need him...


Yeah, but even the dog gives up eventually .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............ :D:

HITMEN OF 77
02-08-2004, 02:05 AM
I didn't get a chance to read everyone's post on this topic, but read what the thread was about. My opinion, DUMB trade. We don't want Griffey Jr here. Injury threat of the year.

munchman33
02-08-2004, 06:54 AM
I'd rather have Griffey potentially sucking for a lot of money because of injury than the sure thing of Konerko and Koch sucking for a lot of money because they just suck.

HITMEN OF 77
02-08-2004, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by munchman33
I'd rather have Griffey potentially sucking for a lot of money because of injury than the sure thing of Konerko and Koch sucking for a lot of money because they just suck.

Konerko has a lot better chance of hitting 300 and having another great year than Griffey will have for the rest of his career.

pearso66
02-08-2004, 10:28 AM
Konerko and Koch are coming off bad years yes, but that doesn't mean they wont turn it around again. I think they have a better shot at a good year than Griffey Jr. does. Put me down as against this trade.

Jerko
02-09-2004, 09:08 AM
I'm a Reds fan and I don't think Griffey is the answer. The ONLY thing I can MAYBE say in his defense is that he'd do better out of his hometown spotlight, and maybe the Sox are just small market enough that the pressure wouldn't get to him. Then again he's been around for ever, has been in the playoffs, and is not a spring chicken anymore either. I just can't see taking a chance on him with his past injuries: He's gotten hurt diving for a ball, which is understandable, but his 2 latest leg injuries were from running the bases. Once he was rounding 3rd in an exhibition game and once I think he was sliding or running into 2nd, I can't remember for sure. Too risky to lose HIM and who we trade for him.

SSN721
02-09-2004, 09:30 AM
This is a bad trade no matter which way you look at it. I could only see doing this if it were my decision if we were getting money from the Reds as well. But that would be ridiculous on their part, maybe if Griffey was making a quarter of what he is now he might be worth the risk but with his contract the way it is now, no way.

Deadguy
02-09-2004, 10:53 AM
When considering the deferred payments, the present value of this contract probably falls below 50 million dollars, with us only having to pay Griffey 30 million or so from now until the end of the playing contract.

I just wonder if insurance could possibly play a factor in picking up a portion of the contract if he say, misses 75% of the games in any given season. Or say he suffers a career ending injury in the next couple of seasons, would insurance cover the remainder of the contract, ala Albert Belle and the Orioles?

As far as the deferred payments go, who is liable for that from 2009-2024? Would it be the White Sox organization/owner at the time, or Jerry Reinsdorf?

Looking at it from the vantage point of only having to pay Griffey 30 million from 2004 until 2008, minus the deferred payments, it doesn't seem like that much of a risk, especially if we could rid ourselves of Konerko or Koch, who are owed nearly the same amount over the next two seasons.

rahulsekhar
02-09-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829


Thomas + Griffey = AL Central Title in 1994. Neither player is what they used to be so saying that those two would lead us to the 2004 central title isn't very likely to happen.

Not that I believe this "rumor" in the least bit...


Wishful thinking since there was no AL Central title in 1994.....oh that scar still hurts!

rahulsekhar
02-09-2004, 04:46 PM
The way I see this - there's a couple of considerations in this fictional deal (I dont' believe it, but it makes for good discussion).

Pros:
1) IF (big if) Griff can stay healthy, you add a .280-.300, 30-40HR guy who's a big name (nice PR for attendance), and if I remember right is great friends with Frank (so good for chemistry)
2) Reds would do this because they can dump a huge contract, then if they want, move Casey to LA for Perez (I'm assuming Sean makes less than Paulie, making him more attractive to LA)
3) Not sure what the terms of Griff's deferred $$ is, but it may lower the actual $$$ value of the contract, making the difference less than the current $39M
4) If you can keep Griff on the field via a combo of DHing him (added + - it pushes Frank to 1B), and Herm's magic, you have a VERY nice lineup with Lee, Frank, Griff, Maggs, Crede

Cons:
1) Obviously, the $$$ is big and long
2) Injury risk

My guess is that given the way this team operates, IF the $$$ are manageable given the deferral, this is one of the shots we can take to try and catch lightning in a bottle. We bolster our rotation and take a chance on a potential decent hitter with bigtime PR value in hopes that he stays healthy enough to give the team a boost and drive attendance up enough to resign Maggs.

The thing that gives me hope if they do this is that he's been unable to stay healthy in the NL, where he has to play the field. Hopefully DHing, he can keep the wear & tear down enough to get something back in his stick.

beckett21
02-09-2004, 06:20 PM
Griffey has never been the same since he OD'ed on the brain tonic :smile:

Unfortunately I cannot envision a scenario where us acquiring him would be anything less than an unmitigated disaster. The only benefit which would come of it is that it would most likely expedite KW's departure, which in and of itself might not be a bad thing. He is locked up for too much money for too long, and he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he will never again be healthy. No thank you I respectfully pass on that little expereiment. :D:

A. Cavatica
02-09-2004, 08:20 PM
I don't believe the Griffey rumor for a minute, but just for kicks let's imagine what happened if the Sox traded Konerko & Koch for Griffey, Reitsma & cash, *and* traded Hurt to LA for Perez, Jackson, and Thurston.

What would our team look like then?

DH - Gload??
C - Olivo, Alomar
1B - Reed??
2B - Thurston
SS - Valentin
3B - Crede
IF - Harris, Uribe
LF - Lee
CF - Griffey
RF - Ordonez
OF - Rowand, Benard

SP - Loaiza, Buehrle, Perez, Garland, Jackson
LR - pick from Wright, Reitsma, Rauch, Person
RP - pick from Marte, Wunsch, Schoeneweis, Politte, Takatsu, Wright, Ginter

This wouldn't be so bad! The pitching looks fine, the defense looks fine, and the holes at offense would be at 1B and DH, which are the two easiest slots to fill. Griffey, if healthy, could replace Frank's production; he'd also replace Frank's name recognition. And if he couldn't play CF, he could DH, with a platoon arrangement (Reed/Rowand?) in center. Uribe could play some short, allowing Valentin to play some 1B or DH; Lee could also see some time at 1B or DH. The lefty-righty balance would be better, the team speed would be better, and Reed & Thurston would get on base more than Konerko & Harris.

TaylorStSox
02-10-2004, 02:31 AM
Jesus! That S.I. cover of Thomas/Griffey almost brought a tear to my eye.

I really wonder if Griffey's heart is still in it. He's gone through so much in the last few years. That kind of struggle can bring 2 things to a guy: Quitting and Angst. Regardless of where he is in the next few years, I hope it's angst. I've always enjoyed Jr. as a player and I hope he succeeds wherever he is.


Even if the trade went poorly for health issues, we'd still be wasting 30 million on bums, from the way I understand it.

Intangible: It might be worth it to see a guy with Gigantism. :D:

Fisk Fan
02-10-2004, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
Griffey has never been the same since he OD'ed on the brain tonic :smile:

I believe it was NERVE tonic that Mr. Burns had Griff drinking. Either way, that's some funny ***** right there.