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kittle42
02-05-2004, 02:27 PM
Most GIDPs -- Paul Konerko 84, Magglio Ordonez 83 (NL leader -- Jeff Bagwell, 80)

See, the Sox are ruling the decade!

Huisj
02-05-2004, 02:30 PM
I just came across that same article. geez, that's pathetic, but it's pretty much what we all have known here all along. why do the sox hit into so many though? what is their problem? does this show the selfishness of our hitters?

joecrede
02-05-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
I just came across that same article. geez, that's pathetic, but it's pretty much what we all have known here all along. why do the sox hit into so many though? what is their problem? does this show the selfishness of our hitters?

It's Thomas' fault for getting on base.

Palehose13
02-05-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
It's Thomas' fault for getting on base.

LMAO :D:

chisox06
02-05-2004, 02:41 PM
Well both Paulie and Mags are right handed hitters, that aren't quick (especially Paul), and they hit the ball hard. Those are the ingredients for a hitter to hit into a lot of DP's. Still pathetic though.

munchman33
02-05-2004, 03:09 PM
This more than anything shows that one of them has to go. You can't have two player with more than 160 GIDP between them, no matter how productive they might be.

Frater Perdurabo
02-05-2004, 03:26 PM
Maggs should lead off so he will hit into fewer DPs. PK can hit ninth behind Rowand and Harris so his DP numbers will drop as well. And since PK will not get on base much, Maggs won't have to worry about DPs at all. Problem solved! :D: (Should this all be in teal?)

lowesox
02-05-2004, 03:58 PM
Yes, those two guys deserve some fault here, but what about Jery Manuel. He was awful at making things happen on the bases. We never manufactured runs last year. So it's tough on RBI guys like Maggs and Konerko when runners stay at 1st base all inning.

Also Kenny Williams deserves some blame too. This team needs (and needed last year) players who make things happen. That's one thing I really like about the Randy Wynn trade rumour - he can make things happen. Lofton was able to do it when we had him.

This team needs a leadoff man. It needs players who can bunt and players who can run the bases aggressively. That's what drives me nuts about Williams - these kinds of role players aren't expensive. Perfect example - SS. I believe a shortstop should be a defensive player, who can bunt and maybe steal a base. Instead, we have Jose Valentin.

doublem23
02-05-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
It's Thomas' fault for getting on base.

:)

POTW!

joecrede
02-05-2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
This team needs a leadoff man. It needs players who can bunt and players who can run the bases aggressively. That's what drives me nuts about Williams - these kinds of role players aren't expensive. Perfect example - SS. I believe a shortstop should be a defensive player, who can bunt and maybe steal a base. Instead, we have Jose Valentin.

Valentin gives you 20+ homers and is among the best defenders at short in the league. What's not to like about that?

lowesox
02-05-2004, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Valentin gives you 20+ homers and is among the best defenders at short in the league. What's not to like about that?

* His defence (he's lost a step)
* His batting average
* His big mouth (and thus his leadership skills)
* His overpriced contract
* And basically everything except for the 20 homeruns he hits

StepsInSC
02-05-2004, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Valentin gives you 20+ homers and is among the best defenders at short in the league. What's not to like about that?

A .313 OBP is horrendous.

joecrede
02-05-2004, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
A .313 OBP is horrendous.

His .463 SLG overall ranked 7th among all shortstops last year. Against right-handed pitching he slugged at .535 clip which ranked 2nd and got on base at a .345 clip which ranked 10th.

joecrede
02-05-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
* His defence (he's lost a step)
* His batting average
* His big mouth (and thus his leadership skills)
* His overpriced contract
* And basically everything except for the 20 homeruns he hits

* If he lost a step he's still posesses excellent range.
* Low batting average, high slugging percentage.
* Contract is in-line with his production (Koch, Konerko, Lee, Ordonez are less of bargains.)

StepsInSC
02-05-2004, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
His .463 SLG overall ranked 7th among all shortstops last year. Against right-handed pitching he slugged at .535 clip which ranked 2nd and got on base at a .345 clip which ranked 10th.

Despite the brevity of my post I was already content with Valentin, especially if he will give up pretending to be a switchie when it drags down his stats like they obviously do.

lowesox
02-05-2004, 07:06 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
* Low batting average, high slugging percentage.


Ok. Lets forget about everything else because contracts and defense, when you boil them down, become a matter of opinion.

But here's the thing. The reason the WhiteSox didn't make the playoffs last year is because of how inconsistent their offence is. Why? Because of how all of the players in the lineup try to be power hitters. Everybody knows that when your entire lineup continually swings for the fences, things become pretty hit or miss. And the last thing we need when you have power guys like Thomas, Konerko, Lee and to a lesser degree Crede, is a short stop who only hits homeruns.

joecrede
02-05-2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Ok. Lets forget about everything else because contracts and defense, when you boil them down, become a matter of opinion.

But here's the thing. The reason the WhiteSox didn't make the playoffs last year is because of how inconsistent their offence is. Why? Because of how all of the players in the lineup try to be power hitters. Everybody knows that when your entire lineup continually swings for the fences, things become pretty hit or miss. And the last thing we need when you have power guys like Thomas, Konerko, Lee and to a lesser degree Crede, is a short stop who only hits homeruns.

I agree with you that the offense needs to be improved. I just think it's easier to find better players at first and in left than the Sox currently have than it is at short.

doublem23
02-05-2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
His .463 SLG overall ranked 7th among all shortstops last year. Against right-handed pitching he slugged at .535 clip which ranked 2nd and got on base at a .345 clip which ranked 10th.

We don't need another booming bat in the lineup, we need a speedster who can get on base.

Frater Perdurabo
02-06-2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
We don't need another booming bat in the lineup, we need a speedster who can get on base.

I think that's why many of us are drooling over Jeremy Reed. He may not be a speedster on the order of Juan Pierre, but he is faster than most current Sox players and he gets on base a ton.