PDA

View Full Version : Breaking News - Konerko for Perez talks rumor!


habibharu
02-04-2004, 04:42 PM
bruce levine reports that after not talking for a month, the sox and dodgers have reopened discussions. they are dicussing pitching for hitting. possibly PK or hurt for perez

34 Inch Stick
02-04-2004, 04:44 PM
PK for Perez I can handle, Hurt for Perez would make me furious. Any chance we can get a market started for PK between the Dodgers and Angels?

Brian26
02-04-2004, 04:47 PM
:KW

"Carlos and Magglio will be on our opening day roster."


:walnuts

"What about me?"


:hawk

"You GAWN!"

DrCrawdad
02-04-2004, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
PK for Perez I can handle, Hurt for Perez would make me furious. Any chance we can get a market started for PK between the Dodgers and Angels?

I agree! Trading Thomas, a bonefided HOF caliper player, for Perez is crazy unless the Dodgers toss in at least one other of their top pitching prospects.

KingXerxes
02-04-2004, 04:54 PM
The White Sox have got to hang onto Thomas. Just write out their line-up without him in it.......it doesn't really look all that great does it?

DrCrawdad
02-04-2004, 04:56 PM
I heard about this Thomas or PK to LA this moring on THE SCORE. Anway, a Cubbie fan who's opinions I respect made this comment on Perez when discussing the Cubbies/Dodgers Maddux situation:

..The Dodgers' main need is hitting, and if they think they can sign Maddux and then trade Odalis Perez for hitting, they are hallucinating. Perez isn't that good.

ondafarm
02-04-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I agree! Trading Thomas, a bonefided HOF caliper player, for Perez is crazy unless the Dodgers toss in at least one other of their top pitching prospects.


We've got to stop agreeing like this !!

TheRockinMT
02-04-2004, 04:57 PM
Perez even up for either Paulie or Hurt is not worth it. He has had one good season and now he supposed to be the second coming of Cy Young. I would like to have Perez, yes, but only with some high level prospect(s) thrown in from the Bums.

munchman33
02-04-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
I heard about this Thomas or PK to LA this moring on THE SCORE. Anway, a Cubbie fan who's opinions I respect made this comment on Perez when discussing the Cubbies/Dodgers Maddux situation:

I remember an earlier post on this subject put Perez's number up against everyone we had on our staff last year, and Perez blew them away. I believe I remember seeing his K/BB ratio being better than everyones, and his era and whip were second to ELO's.

nitetrain8601
02-04-2004, 05:04 PM
This isn't breaking news. I've known that they've been discussing trades. I've heard that another rumor has opened up though. I read it on whitesox.com that they are thinking about trading Maggs for Freddy Garcia, Randy Winn, and Rafael Soriano.

DrCrawdad
02-04-2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
We've got to stop agreeing like this !!

Ah, the things you and I disagree on are peripheral to what we agree on THE WHITE SOX!

In addition to what I said before on Thomas, bear in mind that his contract seems relatively cheap. If the Sox trade a 6 million dollar 40 HR a year player straight up for Perez, then I'll be ticked.

Heck, I think even Konerko should get more in return than just Perez!

pudge
02-04-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by nitetrain8601
This isn't breaking news. I've known that they've been discussing trades. I've heard that another rumor has opened up though. I read it on whitesox.com that they are thinking about trading Maggs for Freddy Garcia, Randy Winn, and Rafael Soriano.

Man, that is really intriguing, especially if Maggs is a goner after this season. Soriano seems like a pretty good stud... I'd imagine they'd want to package Koch in that.

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
I remember an earlier post on this subject put Perez's number up against everyone we had on our staff last year, and Perez blew them away. I believe I remember seeing his K/BB ratio being better than everyones, and his era and whip were second to ELO's.

He is comparable to Zambrano emotionally. Pumped when going good, and frustrated when bad. His stuff is supposed to be ace stuff though. Maybe a hispanic speaking manager will do some good. The Rockies manager said he believes Uribe will be better for us, for that reason. Anyway, Konerko will rebound, but his contract is steep. I like this deal. Question is what then? I like either Carlos Lee playing first (if the team indeed thinks that role can suit him), even though he has played well in left of late, and putting Reed in left. Or signing Travis Lee. I think Lee would be a good addition to the club if he could be signed for a reasonable price with the Konerko savings. He can hit homeruns, but is more of a line drive hitter with some base running speed. With the bats we already have, this type of hitter would fit in nicely. Although with the skepticism with Harris in this forum, the Reed option is probably more popular with the potential of becoming a very good lead off hitter.

MRKARNO
02-04-2004, 05:17 PM
Seeing Thomas in a uniform that isnt a White Sox uniform would make me very sad

Tekijawa
02-04-2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
I remember an earlier post on this subject put Perez's number up against everyone we had on our staff last year, and Perez blew them away. I believe I remember seeing his K/BB ratio being better than everyones, and his era and whip were second to ELO's.


He also played in a park that is about 48 times the size of ours...

jeremyb1
02-04-2004, 05:23 PM
Konerko would theoretically be worth nothing in return if it allowed us to move his contract. For a slightly above average 1B when he is playing well 8 million dollars is an incredible amount of money and severely handicaps the organization. Even if it isn't possible to do anything with the money dealing Paully would free up this season, it'd be worth it to free up money next offseason. We're not talking about just Perez, we're talking about Perez and probably 3 million to spend on the free agent market this offseason and next offseason. If we'd made this deal earlier that's comperable to Perez and perhaps Hawkins or at least Ligtenberg.

carusochop
02-04-2004, 05:24 PM
The Sox can't deal Thomas without his permission, he's a 10-5 guy. I don't care how much he dislikes Ozzie, Thomas would not want to end his career hitting in Dodger Stadium, that park is terrible for hitters.

I would be willing to do PK for Perez. Perez is very underrated and maybe we could get the Dodgers to toss in Joe Thurston (a 2B) for insurance on Harris. We would have to replace PL's bat though by signing either Mondesi, Travis Lee, or McGriff. We could also trade some SP prospects since Perez is young. Either way we have to patch some holes.

JRIG
02-04-2004, 05:53 PM
I heard the new/old rumor on the way home from work, and for the first time ever I actually thought about not being a White Sox fan anymore. If this organization is so stupid to trade Thomas for Perez, why should I waste my time.

The thought passed, but that's the kind of offseason it's been. And judging by the way KW has treated Frank, it's not out of the realm of possibility that this would happen.

tanko
02-04-2004, 05:58 PM
Bruce Levine this Bruce Levine that.Ever since I stumbled onto this board 2 months that's all I hear and everything he says so far hasn't come true so why would I even put any credence into this rumour.To me Bruce Levine equals cbssportline message board as a source.

beckett21
02-04-2004, 06:01 PM
I would have to guess Thomas is the guy they want--I mean, really, WE don't even want Konerko, why would they? Depends on who is thrown in on the deal, but I think Frank's days on the south side are numbered, unfortunately. But again, I will believe it when it happens--I am tired of all these Dodger rumors already.

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 06:08 PM
Guys stop worrying about losing Frank. That won't be the deal. Frank wouldn't approve it and KW wouldn't even try it, because he knows. It's Konerko or no one. The Dodgers are in a situation where they would be more than happy with him. Especially if it means getting rid of Perez, who has been a head case for them.

beckett21
02-04-2004, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Guys stop worrying about losing Frank. That won't be the deal. Frank wouldn't approve it and KW wouldn't even try it, because he knows. It's Konerko or no one. The Dodgers are in a situation where they would be more than happy with him. Especially if it means getting rid of Perez, who has been a head case for them.

I hope you're right SEAL! :D:

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
I hope you're right SEAL! :D:

I'm always right baby! :D:

LATruBlue
02-04-2004, 06:35 PM
OK, here's my .02.

Many Dodger posters have looked at both Konerko and Thomas and here is what the general conclusion is on both.

Now I'm only speaking of how we view each player, not what the purported deal would be.

The Dodgers posters prefer having Konerko yet they want something done to offset his bloated salary. They think Konerko is much better defensively and would provide some good offense.

They view Frank Thomas as a good power hitter but are very suspect of his defensive abilities and of playing first base for more than 135 games. A lot of Dodger fans are not too enthused at the propsect of Frank Thomas being traded to the Dodgers.


It just goes to show how both sides view a purported trade. I will give deference to the Sox fans for knowing more about Thomas and Konerko while we have watched Perez pitch for the last two seasons.

I suspect something is going to give in the next couple of weeks.

On a different note, there was a question and answer session for new Dodger owner Frank McCourt. Here is a question and answer that makes me think he would trade for Maggs provided every thing else was in place.


Q: What's your philosophy on trading prospects for proven players?

A: "Sometimes, to contend, its something you have to do. We may have to part with one or two of our blue chippers if we want to contend, but we would have to get fair value in return. There are a couple of guys who I consider pretty close to untouchable - which means that I would only trade them if we got a superstar player in return and got to keep him for a number of years."

beckett21
02-04-2004, 06:39 PM
The Dodger fans must be remembering those gaudy numbers Pauly put up in Albequerque! :D:

delben91
02-04-2004, 06:50 PM
Wow, if Konerko for Perez was available I hope KW would do it in a heartbeat. Lose that overpriced contract, and pick up a good to very good pitcher that would definitely strengthen the Sox rotation. Ah, if only it weren't merely a rumor...

dzipio
02-04-2004, 07:46 PM
I'm a little surprised to see all the love for Frank here. I've gotta say, this is a chance to get rid of OUR head case. Frank is 35, has never been good to the fans, and is a major league crybaby. When we last made it to the playoffs he was Mr. Popup. I say take Perez, and adios to Frank who can be close to his home in Vegas.

southpaw40
02-04-2004, 07:55 PM
It's been posted on the mlb board that Hurt has approved a trade to LA if a deal can be worked out between the two teams. We've had rumor overkill this offseason, and I guess not too many people believe this one, but for what it's worth, the information supposedly came from a Sox insider.
Guess we'll just have to wait and see, but I'd guess that if a trade involving Frank Thomas to LA is made, it would have to include some (one?) of their prize pitching prospects.

hold2dibber
02-04-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by dzipio
I'm a little surprised to see all the love for Frank here. I've gotta say, this is a chance to get rid of OUR head case. Frank is 35, has never been good to the fans, and is a major league crybaby. When we last made it to the playoffs he was Mr. Popup. I say take Perez, and adios to Frank who can be close to his home in Vegas.

Frank had 42 HRs and OPS over .950 last year. PK had 18 HRs and an OPS under .710 last year. And Konerko makes $2.5 million more than Frank does. And you'd rather keep Konerko and deal Frank for Perez? I'd rather have the cry baby head case who's good at playing baseball than the non-cry baby head case who isn't, thank you very much.

hold2dibber
02-04-2004, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by southpaw40
It's been posted on the mlb board that Hurt has approved a trade to LA if a deal can be worked out between the two teams. We've had rumor overkill this offseason, and I guess not too many people believe this one, but for what it's worth, the information supposedly came from a Sox insider.

:chunks

StepsInSC
02-04-2004, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by dzipio
I'm a little surprised to see all the love for Frank here. I've gotta say, this is a chance to get rid of OUR head case. Frank is 35, has never been good to the fans, and is a major league crybaby. When we last made it to the playoffs he was Mr. Popup. I say take Perez, and adios to Frank who can be close to his home in Vegas.

Like it or not, Frank is the reason a lot of us became Sox fans. He is the best player this team has ever had (yada yada yada its debateable I know) and the only bonafide superstar this team has ever had. A lot of us would literally feel hurt and betrayed if he was traded away for the likes of Odalis Perez.

Also, saying that Frank for Perez is somehow a GOOD deal is absolutely insane. Surely even the non-Hurt-lovers can agree with this. IMO supporting Frank for Perez is more of a sign of Frank-hating then not wanting the trade is a sign of blind Frank loving.

seventytwo
02-04-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
OK, here's my .02.

Many Dodger posters have looked at both Konerko and Thomas and here is what the general conclusion is on both.

Now I'm only speaking of how we view each player, not what the purported deal would be.

The Dodgers posters prefer having Konerko yet they want something done to offset his bloated salary. They think Konerko is much better defensively and would provide some good offense.

They view Frank Thomas as a good power hitter but are very suspect of his defensive abilities and of playing first base for more than 135 games. A lot of Dodger fans are not too enthused at the propsect of Frank Thomas being traded to the Dodgers.


It just goes to show how both sides view a purported trade. I will give deference to the Sox fans for knowing more about Thomas and Konerko while we have watched Perez pitch for the last two seasons.

I suspect something is going to give in the next couple of weeks.

On a different note, there was a question and answer session for new Dodger owner Frank McCourt. Here is a question and answer that makes me think he would trade for Maggs provided every thing else was in place.


Q: What's your philosophy on trading prospects for proven players?

A: "Sometimes, to contend, its something you have to do. We may have to part with one or two of our blue chippers if we want to contend, but we would have to get fair value in return. There are a couple of guys who I consider pretty close to untouchable - which means that I would only trade them if we got a superstar player in return and got to keep him for a number of years."

Paul Konerko is a terrific glove man, potential gold-glover. There will be no prospect added to a PK for Perez deal.

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by seventytwo
Paul Konerko is a terrific glove man, potential gold-glover. There will be no prospect added to a PK for Perez deal.

Don't know why you would knock his defense. He's a solid first baseman. There's no way we would have to include a prospect. Maybe money, but I don't like that scenerio.

seventytwo
02-04-2004, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Don't know why you would knock his defense. He's a solid first baseman. There's no way we would have to include a prospect. Maybe money, but I don't like that scenerio.

No, he is not.

MRKARNO
02-04-2004, 08:21 PM
If they trade thomas, I would be really mad. He is the one player that has been there as long as I have been a sox fan.

Deadguy
02-04-2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by dzipio
I'm a little surprised to see all the love for Frank here. I've gotta say, this is a chance to get rid of OUR head case. Frank is 35, has never been good to the fans, and is a major league crybaby. When we last made it to the playoffs he was Mr. Popup. I say take Perez, and adios to Frank who can be close to his home in Vegas.


Thanks for sharing your .00000002 cents KW. However, your dream of having a Konerko/Nick Johnson 1B/DH combination will never come to fruition.

A. Cavatica
02-04-2004, 08:58 PM
Frank is a future HOFer, (still) the best hitter on the club, and a huge bargain at his 2004 salary. He deserves to play his whole career with the Sox (not that that's necessarily a reward). There's no way I'd trade him to the Dodgers unless I got back Perez, Jackson, AND Miller. But it sounds like the Dodgers don't want him anyway, because of defense.

No, Konerko is the one who MUST be moved, even if it's just for Perez straight up. We can't afford to eat salary. If we did, we'd have to get more back than just Perez.

munchman33
02-04-2004, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by dzipio
I'm a little surprised to see all the love for Frank here. I've gotta say, this is a chance to get rid of OUR head case. Frank is 35, has never been good to the fans, and is a major league crybaby. When we last made it to the playoffs he was Mr. Popup. I say take Perez, and adios to Frank who can be close to his home in Vegas.

That's your opinion of Frank, and you're entitled to it. But you'll find around here we're a little more sensible and realize that the villification of Frank by the media doesn't make him a bad person or a bad player.

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 11:03 PM
All this Frank talk is meaningless. It's not even an option. KW won't pursue it, and Frank would reject it anyway. It's Konerko for Perez or nothing. Stop arguing over something that has no probability of happening.

voodoochile
02-04-2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
All this Frank talk is meaningless. It's not even an option. KW won't pursue it, and Frank would reject it anyway. It's Konerko for Perez or nothing. Stop arguing over something that has no probability of happening.

I doubt KW can do it, but Frank would be an idiot not to take a trade at this point in his career. I think he gets a big fat bonus if he gets traded.

I am sure if he could get away from KW, OG and JR at this point he would jump at the chance...

depy48
02-04-2004, 11:50 PM
I wouldnt want to lose either of them, but i'd say keep frank over konerko

serena
02-04-2004, 11:55 PM
I thought Frank had a big escalation clause in his contract if he were to be traded (separate from him having to ok it). Was that <ahem> "negotiated" out when his contract was reworked???

Rex Hudler
02-05-2004, 12:26 AM
$2.5 million, maybe?? Not sure, just sounds familiar.

SSN721
02-05-2004, 07:20 AM
Perez for Frank is preposturous, not even worthy of discussing to me, I cant see him doing it. But for Konerko, I think we would be lucky enough to dump his salary for a decent starter stright up. I certainly wouldnt complain about trading him straight for Perez. But I would not agree with it if we have to eat some of his salary, then we might as well keep him. I think Konerko has as much potential for a great year as Perez has to be a lights out pitcher. And considering Perez is 2 mil cheaper (I think) and in a more important position and needed position on our team would rather take my chances with him.

cornball
02-05-2004, 07:53 AM
At this point, I do not believe anyone on the team is untouchable. I just hope the value in return for PK or FT is equal.

This team has many wholes, starting pitching and extremely right handed hitting. I believe there will be a move or two. I should be interesting.

hold2dibber
02-05-2004, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by cornball
At this point, I do not believe anyone on the team is untouchable. I just hope the value in return for PK or FT is equal.

This team has many wholes, starting pitching and extremely right handed hitting. I believe there will be a move or two. I should be interesting.

One of the problems with trading Frank is that because he doesn't make a ton of $ but his production is so high, it's hard to get equal value for him without increasing payroll. For example, if the Sox traded him straight up for Perez, they'd only be shedding about $1 million in payroll. And Frank is a much more valuable player than Perez. For example, Perez's ERA+ in '03 was 89 (i.e., he was not even league average) whereas Frank's OPS+ in '03 was 149 (i.e., WAY above league average).

jabrch
02-05-2004, 08:09 AM
Frank for Perez? No Way - not gonna happen.

I don't see JR letting KW trade Frank and I don't see KW wanting to trade his best hitter.

Konerko for Perez? DONE - where do I sign? (Too bad we didn't do this sooner when we could have gotten Juan Gonzalez to DH for about 5mm.

carusochop
02-05-2004, 08:11 AM
As I wrote early, Frank would be a moron to accept this deal. LA is one heckuva pitchers park, it would hurt his stats. Not to mention the ptiching in the NL West (or in any aother divison, save the International League) is a little deeper than the AL Central. Frank's stats would be hurt by not being able to hit against the Tigers and Indians.

Tragg
02-05-2004, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
One of the problems with trading Frank is that because he doesn't make a ton of $ but his production is so high, it's hard to get equal value for him without increasing payroll. For example, if the Sox traded him straight up for Perez, they'd only be shedding about $1 million in payroll. And Frank is a much more valuable player than Perez. For example, Perez's ERA+ in '03 was 89 (i.e., he was not even league average) whereas Frank's OPS+ in '03 was 149 (i.e., WAY above league average).

That's not a problem-high production at a low cost is a good thing.

Why would we trade Frank?

SEALgep
02-05-2004, 08:29 AM
KW said in the Trib today that Frank is not being sought after by the Dodgers.

hold2dibber
02-05-2004, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
That's not a problem-high production at a low cost is a good thing.

Why would we trade Frank?

Uh, that's exactly my point. Yet another reason why he shouldn't be traded. I was responding to a post in which cornball said that no one is untouchable and that if Frank is traded he'd want equal value in return. My post said that you can't get equal value to Frank unless you up the payroll.

Hangar18
02-05-2004, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
.... I like this deal. Question is what then? I like either Carlos Lee playing first (if the team indeed thinks that role can suit him), even though he has played well in left of late, and putting Reed in left. Or signing Travis Lee. I think Lee would be a good addition to the club if he could be signed for a reasonable price...

You realize under this scenario, the White Sox would be the 1st team in the majors with 3 Lee's on it?
Carlos, Travis and Mansoo

".....for it had been written, that a championship for chicagos south side would only come with the exit of the tyrant, or the coming of the 3 Lees"

SEALgep
02-05-2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
You realize under this scenario, the White Sox would be the 1st team in the majors with 3 Lee's on it?
Carlos, Travis and Mansoo

".....for it had been written, that a championship for chicagos south side would only come with the exit of the tyrant, or the coming of the 3 Lees"

It would be sweet, you could buy a Lee jersey, and if anyone asks which one it is, go with the hot stick. Works if one leaves as well. I say we do it, lol.

mantis1212
02-05-2004, 09:15 AM
Frank for Perez- absolutely preposterous!

Hurt is the greatest hitter in Sox history, and he only costs 6 million this year! So he whines a little bit, big deal. He needs to retire in a White sox uniform, end of story.

serena
02-05-2004, 09:22 AM
AGREED!!!!!

soxtalker
02-05-2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
OK, here's my .02.

Many Dodger posters have looked at both Konerko and Thomas and here is what the general conclusion is on both.

Now I'm only speaking of how we view each player, not what the purported deal would be.

The Dodgers posters prefer having Konerko yet they want something done to offset his bloated salary. They think Konerko is much better defensively and would provide some good offense.

They view Frank Thomas as a good power hitter but are very suspect of his defensive abilities and of playing first base for more than 135 games. A lot of Dodger fans are not too enthused at the propsect of Frank Thomas being traded to the Dodgers.


It just goes to show how both sides view a purported trade. I will give deference to the Sox fans for knowing more about Thomas and Konerko while we have watched Perez pitch for the last two seasons.

I suspect something is going to give in the next couple of weeks.

On a different note, there was a question and answer session for new Dodger owner Frank McCourt. Here is a question and answer that makes me think he would trade for Maggs provided every thing else was in place.


Q: What's your philosophy on trading prospects for proven players?

A: "Sometimes, to contend, its something you have to do. We may have to part with one or two of our blue chippers if we want to contend, but we would have to get fair value in return. There are a couple of guys who I consider pretty close to untouchable - which means that I would only trade them if we got a superstar player in return and got to keep him for a number of years."

It is good to get the perspective of the Dodger fans on this. Of course, it doesn't say what the Dodger management is thinking. (Similarly, this board does not reflect how the Sox management evaluates things.)

I think that the concern about Frank at 1B is legitimate. Many Sox fans have been arguing that he should play there more, as his hitting is certainly better than when he DH's. But I also remember that he's had trouble in the field earlier in his career -- and he has tried at times to work on the problem. Dodger Stadium might hurt him if he tries to hit the ball out of the park like he did last year, but his historical style of hitting to all fields might benefit from the larger park. He does get a salary boost (or bonus?) if he is traded, so there is incentive. I wonder how he'd view the chance to play 1B all the time. Maybe it would help his chances of getting into the Hall of Fame.

poorme
02-05-2004, 09:26 AM
Thomas fields like McGriff but can't throw. So that's how LA fans can think about it.

mantis1212
02-05-2004, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
It is good to get the perspective of the Dodger fans on this. Of course, it doesn't say what the Dodger management is thinking. (Similarly, this board does not reflect how the Sox management evaluates things.)

I think that the concern about Frank at 1B is legitimate. Many Sox fans have been arguing that he should play there more, as his hitting is certainly better than when he DH's. But I also remember that he's had trouble in the field earlier in his career -- and he has tried at times to work on the problem. Dodger Stadium might hurt him if he tries to hit the ball out of the park like he did last year, but his historical style of hitting to all fields might benefit from the larger park. He does get a salary boost (or bonus?) if he is traded, so there is incentive. I wonder how he'd view the chance to play 1B all the time. Maybe it would help his chances of getting into the Hall of Fame.

Frank tore it up in Dodger stadium last year I remember -albeit it was only 3 games. Does anyone have those stats handy? I really think there's something connected to Frank playing 1st base and his hitting. He never had a bad year until he started playing DH full time. Best plan- Hurt plays 140 games in a Sox uniform at 1st base this year!

rahulsekhar
02-05-2004, 09:42 AM
Here ya go Danny. I've got 3 options for ya based on what you're willing to give up and how much O you want to add.

Option 1 - Slight improvement for ya
PK for Odalis. A decent pitcher for a decent hitter with a decent glove

Option 2 - Significant improvement + good pub for new owner via adding another HOFer
Frank for Odalis + Jackson (one of them)

Option 3 - Add a superstar
Maggs for Odalis+Mota+Jackson+CF prospect

Your choice, take 'em or leave 'em. Maybe KW throws in a mid-level prospect in option 3, but there's no real wiggle room on the primaries.

kittle42
02-05-2004, 10:22 AM
Predicted Odalis Perez ERA if traded to Sox: 5.26

34 Inch Stick
02-05-2004, 11:06 AM
That is my real fear and why I would like to see those Konero for Washburn rumors start up again.

I like the way KW is playing this. If I'm him I'd wait a long time with the Dodgers. They are desperate for hitting and are facing the possiblity of being taken over by the Angels in popularity. They will crack.

beckett21
02-05-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by 34 Inch Stick
That is my real fear and why I would like to see those Konero for Washburn rumors start up again.

I like the way KW is playing this. If I'm him I'd wait a long time with the Dodgers. They are desperate for hitting and are facing the possiblity of being taken over by the Angels in popularity. They will crack.

I don't know if it is so much "the way KW is playing this" or the fact that the Dodgers have been handcuffed waiting for their sale to go through. Along with his own personal handcuffs, I think KW is just riding the wave. Not a whole lot he can do.

And we are not exactly dealing from a position of strength either. As for the popularity issue, are you trying to say the Dodgers are turning into the Sox ?? :D:

Frater Perdurabo
02-05-2004, 11:49 AM
Please, please let the Konerko for Perez, straight-up, rumor be true.

Frater Perdurabo
02-05-2004, 11:49 AM
Frank should not be traded, unless it is straight up for, say, Albert Pujols.

KingXerxes
02-05-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
Frank should not be traded, unless it is straight up for, say, Albert Pujols.

I agree. I think trading Frank Thomas would be a huge mistake.

joepoe
02-05-2004, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
He also played in a park that is about 48 times the size of ours...

splits:

Home: 6-3 ERA 2.73 WHIP 1.0
Away: 6-9 ERA 5.59 WHIP 1.45

Ugh, ugh, ugh and ugh!

fuzzy_patters
02-05-2004, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by joepoe
splits:

Home: 6-3 ERA 2.73 WHIP 1.0
Away: 6-9 ERA 5.59 WHIP 1.45

Ugh, ugh, ugh and ugh!

When you consider that most of those away games were played without the DH, it is easy to see Perez putting up an ERA over 6 at US Cellular Field. I would rather the Sox hang on to what they have than aquire another Jaime Navarro.

hold2dibber
02-05-2004, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by joepoe
splits:

Home: 6-3 ERA 2.73 WHIP 1.0
Away: 6-9 ERA 5.59 WHIP 1.45

Ugh, ugh, ugh and ugh!

That's just in '03. But in '02, he was really good both at Dodgers Stadium and on the road:

Home: 7-6, ERA 2.75, BAA .237
Away: 8-4, ERA 3.31, BAA.210

Also, despite the fact that he didn't have a great year last year, he wasn't horrible and some of his periherals suggest that he may have been unlucky to some extent. For example, he struck out 6.85/9 IP, he had a 3.07 K/BB ratio, and his WHIP was 1.28. By comparison:

Buehrle: 4.65 Ks/9IP, 1.95 K/BB ratio and a 1.35 WHIP
Garland: 5.07 Ks/9IP, 1.46 K/BB ratio and a 1.37 WHIP

The point being, despite a down year, there's every reason to think Perez is good enough to be the Sox no. 3 or 4 starter. It's true that Perez pitched in the NL and not the AL. But the guy is 26 years old, he's only 1 year removed from an all-star season and, from all accounts, he has a ton of talent. Plus, he's a big cost savings over PK over the next 2 years. Plus, the Sox are incredibly thin in the rotation and, IMHO, need pitching more than they need hitting at this point. I'd do Perez for PK straight up in a heart beat. And regardless of what you say about Perez, he was a hell of a lot better than Konerko was last year.

TheRockinMT
02-05-2004, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by tanko
Bruce Levine this Bruce Levine that.Ever since I stumbled onto this board 2 months that's all I hear and everything he says so far hasn't come true so why would I even put any credence into this rumour.To me Bruce Levine equals cbssportline message board as a source.

You may be on to something here. Levine may actually be the message board! It seems that all he does is keep bringing up the ssame old info with no actual proof or update to the situation. Maggs wants to stay in Chicago and KW says he isn't going anywhere. Konerko for Perez is not a fair trade for the Sox. Now if they throw in some top prospects, well maybe...

hold2dibber
02-05-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
Konerko for Perez is not a fair trade for the Sox.

Why?

SoxxoS
02-05-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
That's just in '03. But in '02, he was really good both at Dodgers Stadium and on the road:

Home: 7-6, ERA 2.75, BAA .237
Away: 8-4, ERA 3.31, BAA.210

Also, despite the fact that he didn't have a great year last year, he wasn't horrible and some of his periherals suggest that he may have been unlucky to some extent. For example, he struck out 6.85/9 IP, he had a 3.07 K/BB ratio, and his WHIP was 1.28. By comparison:

Buehrle: 4.65 Ks/9IP, 1.95 K/BB ratio and a 1.35 WHIP
Garland: 5.07 Ks/9IP, 1.46 K/BB ratio and a 1.37 WHIP

The point being, despite a down year, there's every reason to think Perez is good enough to be the Sox no. 3 or 4 starter. It's true that Perez pitched in the NL and not the AL. But the guy is 26 years old, he's only 1 year removed from an all-star season and, from all accounts, he has a ton of talent. Plus, he's a big cost savings over PK over the next 2 years. Plus, the Sox are incredibly thin in the rotation and, IMHO, need pitching more than they need hitting at this point. I'd do Perez for PK straight up in a heart beat. And regardless of what you say about Perez, he was a hell of a lot better than Konerko was last year.

All good points.

psyclonis
02-05-2004, 04:31 PM
Why are people even talking about this...Perez is an overpaid scrub, why not just sign Garrett Stephenson(he'll go for cheap and will probably have the same stats)... IMO the WS have the best corners(3,5,7,9) in all of baseball...why mess with it? :/

SEALgep
02-05-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by psyclonis
Why are people even talking about this...Perez is an overpaid scrub, why not just sign Garrett Stephenson(he'll go for cheap and will probably have the same stats)... IMO the WS have the best corners(3,5,7,9) in all of baseball...why mess with it? :/

This is less about getting Perez and more about getting rid of Konerko's contract.

voodoochile
02-05-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by psyclonis
Why are people even talking about this...Perez is an overpaid scrub, why not just sign Garrett Stephenson(he'll go for cheap and will probably have the same stats)... IMO the WS have the best corners(3,5,7,9) in all of baseball...why mess with it? :/

Welcome Aboard! :D:

Just curious, who do you have at 3?

CWSGuy406
02-05-2004, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I doubt KW can do it, but Frank would be an idiot not to take a trade at this point in his career. I think he gets a big fat bonus if he gets traded.

I am sure if he could get away from KW, OG and JR at this point he would jump at the chance...

Exactly. Frank can be a good team player, but you KNOW he is gunning for 500 homers. I doubt that would happen in LA. Like others have said, if we trade Frank, I'd want Perez, Miller or (and possibly AND) Jackson, and Mota.

Frank is such a powerhouse offensively, and I'd fear not having him in the three hole.

HITMEN OF 77
02-05-2004, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
You may be on to something here. Levine may actually be the message board! It seems that all he does is keep bringing up the ssame old info with no actual proof or update to the situation. Maggs wants to stay in Chicago and KW says he isn't going anywhere. Konerko for Perez is not a fair trade for the Sox. Now if they throw in some top prospects, well maybe...

Agreed upon 100%, like I said there will be NO trades until the season starts IMO.

pouncier
02-05-2004, 07:45 PM
for the brilliant cub fan...perez went 15-10 with a 3.00 in 2002 with 222 ip. now, let's take a look at mr. wood's best year...perhaps not as good as you may think after you listen to cub fans...14-11 with a 3.2? 211 ip?

Daver
02-05-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by pouncier
for the brilliant cub fan...perez went 15-10 with a 3.00 in 2002 with 222 ip. now, let's take a look at mr. wood's best year...perhaps not as good as you may think after you listen to cub fans...14-11 with a 3.2? 211 ip?

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

SoxxoS
02-05-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by pouncier
for the brilliant cub fan...perez went 15-10 with a 3.00 in 2002 with 222 ip. now, let's take a look at mr. wood's best year...perhaps not as good as you may think after you listen to cub fans...14-11 with a 3.2? 211 ip?

How dare you! Those numbers don't matter...STRIKEOUTS matter. That is how you know when a pitcher is really good.

mdep524
02-05-2004, 10:29 PM
I think Konerko for Perez straight up would be a good trade, Konerko for Washburn might be a little better. Also, if Thomas were to be traded, if, I'm sure it would be a totally different deal than the rumored Konerko-Pereza one, so I don't know why some of you are assuming we'd only get Perez for Frank.

Anyway, all I wanted to add to this thread was that if the Konerko-Perez trade happens, a lot of people are citing the extra salary savings as a benefit because we can reinvest them in a different player. I really don't think this would happen- since the Sox are "over budget" already anyway, they most likely would just pocket the savings and say they are meeting their budget.

sas1974
02-05-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by pouncier
for the brilliant cub fan...perez went 15-10 with a 3.00 in 2002 with 222 ip. now, let's take a look at mr. wood's best year...perhaps not as good as you may think after you listen to cub fans...14-11 with a 3.2? 211 ip?

Nice...To hear it from a Cub Fan you'd think Wood is the second coming. He still has some work to do in order to rise above the hype and prove himself IMO.

psyclonis
02-05-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Welcome Aboard! :D:

Just curious, who do you have at 3?

Thomas, I really think he can top 45hrs this year and while hes at it, he'll probably raise his OBP to about .425 ...

voodoochile
02-05-2004, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by psyclonis
Thomas, I really think he can top 45hrs this year and while hes at it, he'll probably raise his OBP to about .425 ...

So you have no objection to trading Konerko for Perez?

psyclonis
02-05-2004, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
So you have no objection to trading Konerko for Perez?
Perez is on a 1yr contract(I think) and Konerko has 2 years left...Its just that I think the sox can get way more than just an above-average pitcher(5million?!) for only one year when we are talking about a proven all-star(konerko)...

sas1974
02-05-2004, 11:16 PM
Whether it be Frank or Paulie, I still have my doubts about Perez's ability to perform in the AL. I am not sure was his home/road splits are, but I would imagine that they are skewed by playing in the Ravine, let alone not facing a DH.

Jjav829
02-05-2004, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by CWSGuy406
Exactly. Frank can be a good team player, but you KNOW he is gunning for 500 homers. I doubt that would happen in LA. Like others have said, if we trade Frank, I'd want Perez, Miller or (and possibly AND) Jackson, and Mota.

Frank is such a powerhouse offensively, and I'd fear not having him in the three hole.

LOL, wow. Whoever the Dodgers GM is at that time (be it Evans, Gillick, Beane, etc.) would laugh their ass off at that offer. Hell, I hope LATruBlue doesn't see this or hes really going to think this place is nuts.

I fail to get very excited about the idea of acquiring Odalis Perez. He'd probably make this clubhouse pretty damn combustible. Hopefully he proves me wrong if this trade does happen, but I see him seriously struggling to keep his ERA under 5 with the combination of effects previously listed (pitching in the AL, a more hitter friendly park, etc.).

StillMissOzzie
02-05-2004, 11:44 PM
I wouldn't mind too much if it's PK for Perez, since we're in such a budget crunch I do not want to see KW trade Frank for Perez. Besides that I think Frank is poised for another big year, Frank is what JR loves more than anything - A BARGAIN!

SMO
:gulp:

sas1974
02-05-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by StillMissOzzie
I wouldn't mind too much if it's PK for Perez, since we're in such a budget crunch I do not want to see KW trade Frank for Perez. Besides that I think Frank is poised for another big year, Frank is what JR loves more than anything - A BARGAIN!

SMO
:gulp:

He's probably one of the biggest bargains in baseball. I curious...can anyone thing of some better ones?

SEALgep
02-05-2004, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by sas1974
He's probably one of the biggest bargains in baseball. I curious...can anyone thing of some better ones?
A-Rod

SSN721
02-06-2004, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by sas1974
He's probably one of the biggest bargains in baseball. I curious...can anyone thing of some better ones?

Paul Konerko

eriqjaffe
02-06-2004, 08:15 AM
Well, considering that KW has come out and said that there are no, and have never been any serious talks between the Dodgers and Sox...this may all be hypothetical anyways.

Certainly wouldn't surprise me if nothing happened.

--Eriq.

SEALgep
02-06-2004, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by eriqjaffe
Well, considering that KW has come out and said that there are no, and have never been any serious talks between the Dodgers and Sox...this may all be hypothetical anyways.

Certainly wouldn't surprise me if nothing happened.

--Eriq.

That could be, but if they sign Maddux, they will make a move of some sort. Whether that is with the Sox or not is yet to be determined.

ChiSox65
02-08-2004, 01:42 PM
I say get rid of Koch and Konerko for a Quality Starter.

:gulp:

hsnterprize
02-08-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox65
I say get rid of Koch and Konerko for a Quality Starter.

:gulp: DITTO!!!!!

All these rumors are wearing me out. If the Sox are going to be competitive in this division, they need to do something, and do it soon. Don't wait until mid-season, and then go on a last-minute run for the top and fizzle. The games won in April and May will often determine if they'll play in October.

ondafarm
02-08-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by ChiSox65
I say get rid of Koch and Konerko for a Quality Starter.

:gulp:

Koch should come back around. I expect he'll be back in form this year, particularly with smarter management. The chair I sit on is smarter than JM in handling pitching.

mdep524
02-08-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
Koch should come back around. I expect he'll be back in form this year, particularly with smarter management. The chair I sit on is smarter than JM in handling pitching.

I really disagree with the people who think Koch will bounce back this year. The guy is done. He's not a "smart" or deceptive pitcher, the only reason he was successful in the past was because he threw 98 mph heat. Now a.) the league has caught on to his straight fastballs and b.) those fastballs have lost 7 mph of speed. There's no reason to think either of those things will change, so until further notice the guy just plain sucks.

SEALgep
02-08-2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
I really disagree with the people who think Koch will bounce back this year. The guy is done. He's not a "smart" or deceptive pitcher, the only reason he was successful in the past was because he threw 98 mph heat. Now a.) the league has caught on to his straight fastballs and b.) those fastballs have lost 7 mph of speed. There's no reason to think either of those things will change, so until further notice the guy just plain sucks.

I can understand that setiment, but I think, and this is just my opinion, that he is too proud to undergo that kind of performance again. I think he did whatever he could this offseason to prevent that from happening, including juicing up to regain his speed, and additional work on his mechanics. I have no doubt he juiced before when he was in Oakland, and I would assume he would again. I could be dead wrong, but it seems unlikely to lose that much speed on your fastball without sustaining an injury. He juiced, and I hope he did another couple cycles this offseason. We'll see, but regardless, I think he will fair better this season. Only way to go is up.

Daver
02-08-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I can understand that setiment, but I think, and this is just my opinion, that he is too proud to undergo that kind of performance again. I think he did whatever he could this offseason to prevent that from happening, including juicing up to regain his speed, and additional work on his mechanics. I have no doubt he juiced before when he was in Oakland, and I would assume he would again. I could be dead wrong, but it seems unlikely to lose that much speed on your fastball without sustaining an injury. He juiced, and I hope he did another couple cycles this offseason. We'll see, but regardless, I think he will fair better this season. Only way to go is up.

I have never seen any side effect type evidence of Koch using steroids.

I did see the a complete change in his pitching style over the season last year from his approch all the way to his mechanics,he changed his windup,his release point,and his stride from the rubber.Changes of that nature will affect velocity and control.I think the idea behind Don Cooper's approach to him is to change him from being a flamethrower with no movement to a fastball pitcher with command of the strike zone,in the long run it could pay off.For those that taped games last year compare his style from the beginning of kast season to his style towards the end of the season,they are completely different.

SEALgep
02-08-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I have never seen any side effect type evidence of Koch using steroids.

I did see the a complete change in his pitching style over the season last year from his approch all the way to his mechanics,he changed his windup,his release point,and his stride from the rubber.Changes of that nature will affect velocity and control.I think the idea behind Don Cooper's approach to him is to change him from being a flamethrower with no movement to a fastball pitcher with command of the strike zone,in the long run it could pay off.For those that taped games last year compare his style from the beginning of kast season to his style towards the end of the season,they are completely different.

That could be it then. I thought I heard them say last season that it wasn't a mechanics problem, but that doesn't mean that he didn't change it from before. As far as steroids are considered, and I am not saying he for sure used or uses them, but there aren't necessarily side effects to them. Some steroids are cleaner then others, and thus more expensive, and some effect the body slightly different than others. You can be sure that the steroids used in baseball are some of the best around. Injurys are sometimes a side effect, but that doesn't mean you will sustain one. Look at Sosa and Bonds, they remain healthy with virtual no side effects except for their strength. Koch isn't a small guy either. Again, I am not saying he has used them or is, I am just saying I wouldn't be surprised, as a lot of people in baseball use roids.

Daver
02-08-2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
That could be it then. I thought I heard them say last season that it wasn't a mechanics problem, but that doesn't mean that he didn't change it from before. As far as steroids are considered, and I am not saying he for sure used or uses them, but there aren't necessarily side effects to them. Some steroids are cleaner then others, and thus more expensive, and some effect the body slightly different than others. You can be sure that the steroids used in baseball are some of the best around. Injurys are sometimes a side effect, but that doesn't mean you will sustain one. Look at Sosa and Bonds, they remain healthy with virtual no side effects except for their strength. Koch isn't a small guy either. Again, I am not saying he has used them or is, I am just saying I wouldn't be surprised, as a lot of people in baseball use roids.

You got any evidence to back that up?

That is a very broad accusation to make without being able to back it up.

santo=dorf
02-08-2004, 04:45 PM
:tomatoaward

mantis1212
02-08-2004, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Daver
You got any evidence to back that up?

That is a very broad accusation to make without being able to back it up.

Maybe this is off the subject, but didn't over 5% of major leaguers fail the steriods testing last year? That would mean roughly over 60 major leaguers are juicing, that could be considered evidence.
That being said, I don't buy Koch juicing, or any pitcher for that matter. I don't think it would help them, and I can't believe they would think it would help them.
My theory leaves those 60 as all hitters. If I had to bet on one player on our team, it would be #22

pearso66
02-08-2004, 05:06 PM
that doesnt mean necessarily that those players are taking steroids, if they refuse to take the test, they fail. Wasn't it last year or the year before when most of the Sox players refused to take the test, so that there wo uld be mandatory testing?

voodoochile
02-08-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
that doesnt mean necessarily that those players are taking steroids, if they refuse to take the test, they fail. Wasn't it last year or the year before when most of the Sox players refused to take the test, so that there wo uld be mandatory testing?

That was last year during the pre-test testing phase. They got talked out of it and they took the test like normal.

Daver
02-08-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by mantis1212
Maybe this is off the subject, but didn't over 5% of major leaguers fail the steriods testing last year? That would mean roughly over 60 major leaguers are juicing, that could be considered evidence.
That being said, I don't buy Koch juicing, or any pitcher for that matter. I don't think it would help them, and I can't believe they would think it would help them.
My theory leaves those 60 as all hitters. If I had to bet on one player on our team, it would be #22

Jose does have some side effect evidence as well,the occasional hyperness.as well as some traces of adult acne,while this is not concrete evidence,it could be veiwed that way.Ephedra produces roughly the same side effects however.

mantis1212
02-08-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
that doesnt mean necessarily that those players are taking steroids, if they refuse to take the test, they fail. Wasn't it last year or the year before when most of the Sox players refused to take the test, so that there wo uld be mandatory testing?

They talked about that, but it never panned out. That is a good point I guess, if an individual player wanted a more strict program in place, he could refuse in the hopes of moving the number over 5%.

Deadguy
02-08-2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by mantis1212

My theory leaves those 60 as all hitters. If I had to bet on one player on our team, it would be #22

Derrick Turnbow, a relief pitcher for the Anaheim Angels, was the first MLB player to be publicly identified as testing positive for steroid use when he flunked a drug test at a U.S. Olympic training site.

SEALgep
02-08-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Daver
You got any evidence to back that up?

That is a very broad accusation to make without being able to back it up.

What accusation? I said I wouldn't be surprised, but I also said repeatedly that I don't know. I never said he did. Besides you guys have to realize that steroids are out of your system in a reasonable amount of time. A player could easily juice up and have it out of their system by the time testing started. Not to mention there are urine cleaners out there. So if you are going to include the nontesters that automatically fail as support that it is even less than the 5%, keep in mind that it is probably a lot more.

CWSGuy406
02-08-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
LOL, wow. Whoever the Dodgers GM is at that time (be it Evans, Gillick, Beane, etc.) would laugh their ass off at that offer. Hell, I hope LATruBlue doesn't see this or hes really going to think this place is nuts.

I fail to get very excited about the idea of acquiring Odalis Perez. He'd probably make this clubhouse pretty damn combustible. Hopefully he proves me wrong if this trade does happen, but I see him seriously struggling to keep his ERA under 5 with the combination of effects previously listed (pitching in the AL, a more hitter friendly park, etc.).

Yeah, I should have made my point a bit clearer, but the point of the post was that I really don't want Frank traded unless we get an overwhelmming (sp?) deal.