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cbrownson13
02-04-2004, 05:38 PM
This rumor has been talked about before, but resurfaced in the Seattle Times today.

The Seattle Times reported that since the Mariners are freed of Kaz Sasaki's contract now they could make a deal involving Freddy Garcia, Rafael Soriano, and Randy Winn for Magglio.

The Sun-Times said the Sox will hang onto Maggs until the All-Star break, but if this deal is available, I would jump on it.

MRKARNO
02-04-2004, 06:15 PM
If we traded Konerko and Maggs and had 5 legit pitchers (Garcia and Perez added in the mix), I think the sox should be the divisional favorites even though many would criticize them

npdempse
02-04-2004, 06:20 PM
Linky:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2001850119_mari04.html

I say do it now. Get something for Maggs now rather than letting him change his stripes next year and give us nothing in return.

carusochop
02-04-2004, 06:21 PM
I would be willing to do it. Soriano has some seriosu upside. However Winn should be used in CF and then either Mondesi signed to play RF or our young pitching (which we would then have a surplus of) traded for a hitter.

Randar68
02-04-2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
If we traded Konerko and Maggs and had 5 legit pitchers (Garcia and Perez added in the mix), I think the sox should be the divisional favorites even though many would criticize them

Agreed. It's really too bad they didn't make a move earlier to get Carlos Guillen and Freddie Garcia in addition to anything else they may have been able to get. The holes at the back end of the rotation, closer, CF (short-term) and 2B are too huge to ignore. Add in Maggs' 14 million bucks and it hamstrings their ability to make moves.

If the Sox think they can sign him long term to a reasonable deal in the 11 or 12 million dollar range, I am against trading him, but if you can fill a bunch of holes in one move right now, I'd be pretty torn...

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 06:24 PM
Unless Maggs states there is no chance in resigning him, or the Sox are planning to go with Reed regardless if he does or not, I would keep him. As of now, Magg's agent said the Sox our his first choice. We've heard that before, but waiting to the break is meaningless. If we're willing to trade then, then we're out of it. I doubt that will be the case, but what good are those guys going to be. Garcia will be a FA next year, Winn has two years left-but wouldn't you rather play Reed than be committed to him, and Soriano looks good. I would rather offer arbitration and if we lose him, get the picks. That's me though. Keep in mind, by keeping him, it will be the only chance of resigning him. KW will have to be convinced that it is impossible in order for that to happen.

MRKARNO
02-04-2004, 06:28 PM
Actually, Soriano could start. This guy is gonna be a star. Let's see if the M's think enough of Maggs and their ability to resign him that they would give up soriano and Garcia.

And winn did hit .295 last year and could be a good option to lead off and we could stick Harris at 9

hold2dibber
02-04-2004, 06:31 PM
If they Sox are convinced that Maggs is going to become a free agent, I'd do this deal. Garcia, despite some struggles last year, would still be the no. 3 starter on this staff, Soriano, from everything I've heard, has the talent to become a top of the rotation starter and for now would be a great no. 4 or no. 5 starter or right handed set-up guy in the pen. Wynn is a really good defensive CF who can get on base at a reasonably good clip, thereby allowing Harris to hit at the bottom of the order, where he probably belongs.

LINE-UP:

Wynn CF
Lee LF
Thomas 1B
Konerko DH
Valentin SS
Crede 3B
Rowand RF
Olivo C
Harris 2B

ROTATION:

Loaiza
Buehrle
Garcia
Garland
Soriano

BULLPEN:

Marte
Koch
Wunsch
Politte
Mr. Zero
Wright
Munoz/Rauch/Pachecho/Grilli/Ginter

OEO Magglio
02-04-2004, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Actually, Soriano could start. This guy is gonna be a star. Let's see if the M's think enough of Maggs and their ability to resign him that they would give up soriano and Garcia.

And winn did hit .295 last year and could be a good option to lead off and we could stick Harris at 9
I completely agree Soriano is a stud, I love to watch him pitch, and yes Winn would be a great option to lead off, he's a very solid player, with a good glove, and great speed.

beckett21
02-04-2004, 06:55 PM
I think there is NO doubt Maggs is going to be a FA. If we can get Garcia, Soriano and Winn we should do it without blinking an eye. I am not willing to take the chance that we are Maggs 1st choice; his decision will come down to $$$, and what are the chances we will be highest bidder? NONE.

Sounds like a great deal, but is anyone else getting exhausted chasing these phantom deals??? When something happens I will believe it, not before.

Jjav829
02-04-2004, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
I think there is NO doubt Maggs is going to be a FA. If we can get Garcia, Soriano and Winn we should do it without blinking an eye. I am not willing to take the chance that we are Maggs 1st choice; his decision will come down to $$$, and what are the chances we will be highest bidder? NONE.

Sounds like a great deal, but is anyone else getting exhausted chasing these phantom deals??? When something happens I will believe it, not before.

Sounds to good to be true. Part of the reason Seattle was willing to trade Freddy Garcia was because they were going to put Rafael Soriano into the rotation. I doubt they would trade both of them in a deal, as well as Randy Winn, for a player who is a FA at the end of the year, even if it is Maggs.

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
I think there is NO doubt Maggs is going to be a FA. If we can get Garcia, Soriano and Winn we should do it without blinking an eye. I am not willing to take the chance that we are Maggs 1st choice; his decision will come down to $$$, and what are the chances we will be highest bidder? NONE.

Sounds like a great deal, but is anyone else getting exhausted chasing these phantom deals??? When something happens I will believe it, not before.

I would rather not have Winn part of the deal, but I take back what I said before. Maggs wants a better deal than Vlad. That's not happening, and I really can't blame the Sox for this. Maybe it would be better to get something for him.

beckett21
02-04-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Sounds to good to be true. Part of the reason Seattle was willing to trade Freddy Garcia was because they were going to put Rafael Soriano into the rotation. I doubt they would trade both of them in a deal, as well as Randy Winn, for a player who is a FA at the end of the year, even if it is Maggs.

Gotta agree with you there, unless they can ink him to an extension and then trade him. Seattle would be a nice place to play, I would think Maggs would be all for that. They field a solid club every season and one of these days, they are bound to get it right.

It does seem too good to be true; I would imagine we would be including one of our top prospects if in fact this was on the table at all. But still it seems like a sweet deal for our team on the whole.

hold2dibber
02-04-2004, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I would rather not have Winn part of the deal, but I take back what I said before. Maggs wants a better deal than Vlad. That's not happening, and I really can't blame the Sox for this. Maybe it would be better to get something for him.

Why wouldn't you want Winn? It is my understanding that he's a better defensive CF than anyone in the Sox system (or at least better defensively than anyone who is close to being a major league contributor).

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Why wouldn't you want Winn? It is my understanding that he's a better defensive CF than anyone in the Sox system (or at least better defensively than anyone who is close to being a major league contributor).

I checked it out, I thought he was older. I guess it would be okay. Rowand could play right and Winn could take over in center. I guess it could work.

jordan23ventura
02-04-2004, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by carusochop
I would be willing to do it. Soriano has some seriosu upside. However Winn should be used in CF and then either Mondesi signed to play RF or our young pitching (which we would then have a surplus of) traded for a hitter.


Why do you like Mondesi so much? I'd rather take my chances on Borchard or Reed for free. At least we would learn if they can suck it up and be Major League players. We already know Mondesi can't.

jordan23ventura
02-04-2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


LINE-UP:

Wynn CF
Lee LF
Thomas 1B
Konerko DH
Valentin SS
Crede 3B
Rowand RF
Olivo C
Harris 2B

ROTATION:

Loaiza
Buehrle
Garcia
Garland
Soriano

BULLPEN:

Marte
Koch
Wunsch
Politte
Mr. Zero
Wright
Munoz/Rauch/Pachecho/Grilli/Ginter

Not that I wouldn't do that trade, but the above lineup makes me shudder.

The rotation isn't bad though and I think we will have a better bullpen this year than we did last year or anytime in recent memory.

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura
Not that I wouldn't do that trade, but the above lineup makes me shudder.

The rotation isn't bad though and I think we will have a better bullpen this year than we did last year or anytime in recent memory.
It does look significantly weaker without Ordenez.

beckett21
02-04-2004, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura
Why do you like Mondesi so much? I'd rather take my chances on Borchard or Reed for free. At least we would learn if they can suck it up and be Major League players. We already know Mondesi can't.

I've got no problem with Raul. He has a history of being a head case, but his talent is legit. He is also supposedly a hard worker believe it or not. His career has been a disappointment in the fact that he was preordained to be the best player of our time when he first came up. I could be wrong here (and I am sure someone will call me on it if I am :D: ) but I believe he has matured and has a few good years left in him. He could help us win this year if we trade Maggs. The guy has a CANNON in RF too, which doesn't hurt. My question would be if he can stay healthy, but I don't question his ability. I think he would fit in well.

joecrede
02-04-2004, 07:52 PM
I'd make the Ordonez deal, but I don't want Winn. Couple that with an Ordonez/Perez deal and here's what you could see:

Reed CF
Valentin SS
Thomas DH
Mondesi RF
C. Lee LF
T. Lee 1B
Crede 3B
Olivo C
Harris 2B

Buehrle SP
Loaiza SP
Perez SP
Garcia SP
Garland SP

Marte RP
Soriano RP
Pollitte
Koch RP (traded?)
Takatsu
Schoenweiss
Wunsch

shbart
02-04-2004, 08:16 PM
As posted earlier, I can't imagine Seattle making this deal w/ Soriano and Garcia. So would you make the deal if it was Winn & Garcia for Maggs? I'd definitely still vote yes. I think the line up looks very good offensively. Never underestimate what speed and a decent OBP can do for you at the top of your line up. If Winn, Harris, Lee and Reed (longshot), end up in the line up....you finally have some guys who can run to make up for the potential loss of power. Not a fan of Mondesi. His .272 average was his best average since '98.

poorme
02-04-2004, 08:24 PM
I can hardly wait to read the posts when we deal Ordonez for some Jon Adkinsesque guy. There's no way we get anything decent for a guy making $14 million/year.

Rex Hudler
02-04-2004, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by carusochop
I would be willing to do it. Soriano has some seriosu upside. However Winn should be used in CF and then either Mondesi signed to play RF or our young pitching (which we would then have a surplus of) traded for a hitter.

Just say NO to Mondesi...... the last thing the Sox need is another malcontent in their clubhouse. Rowand would move to RF.

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by poorme
I can hardly wait to read the posts when we deal Ordonez for some Jon Adkinsesque guy. There's no way we get anything decent for a guy making $14 million/year.

You're crazy. It's not like he's some guy that's getting paid a lot and turned into a bust. 14 million is a lot, but someone would want him bad enough to present some talent for him.

A. Cavatica
02-04-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Just say NO to Mondesi...... the last thing the Sox need is another malcontent in their clubhouse. Rowand would move to RF.

Agreed, Mondesi would be a huge mistake. Reed would be RF, Rowand would be fourth OF.

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
Agreed, Mondesi would be a huge mistake. Reed would be RF, Rowand would be fourth OF.

Rowand would play right. They aren't going to promote Reed and demote Rowand because of a trade.

Daver
02-04-2004, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Rowand would play right. They aren't going to promote Reed and demote Rowand because of a trade.

Why not?

You're not talking about a real talent here,fourth outfielders are a dime a dozen.

Win1ForMe
02-04-2004, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I checked it out, I thought he was older. I guess it would be okay. Rowand could play right and Winn could take over in center. I guess it could work.

I've got a great spot for Rowand to play, it's right there on the bench.

There's no way this would happen, but if the M's would like to give us either Meche or Piniero instead of Garcia (along with Soriano and Winn), I would drive Maggs to Seattle myself.

Tragg
02-04-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by cbrownson13
This rumor has been talked about before, but resurfaced in the Seattle Times today.

The Seattle Times reported that since the Mariners are freed of Kaz Sasaki's contract now they could make a deal involving Freddy Garcia, Rafael Soriano, and Randy Winn for Magglio.

The Sun-Times said the Sox will hang onto Maggs until the All-Star break, but if this deal is available, I would jump on it.

Why wait?
Midseason deals these days yield less than off-season deals

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Why not?

You're not talking about a real talent here,fourth outfielders are a dime a dozen.

First of all, it's what the Sox would do. They are giving Rowand the center field spot whether anyone likes it or not. Second, we already had this debate.

beckett21
02-04-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
First of all, it's what the Sox would do. They are giving Rowand the center field spot whether anyone likes it or not. Second, we already had this debate.

I for one am definitely not going down this road again.

People sure know how to push your buttons SEAL! :D:

LOL

SEALgep
02-04-2004, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
I for one am definitely not going down this road again.

People sure know how to push your buttons SEAL! :D:

LOL

I'm pretty easy. I always get told I get mad over the dumbest stuff. But what's dumb about the Sox? This is serious business, and intend to treat it as such. :angry: Lol, I'll try to be more tolerant. :gulp: That helps. Now what's this about Rowand? :angry: Lol.

beckett21
02-05-2004, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I'm pretty easy. I always get told I get mad over the dumbest stuff. But what's dumb about the Sox? This is serious business, and intend to treat it as such. :angry: Lol, I'll try to be more tolerant. :gulp: That helps. Now what's this about Rowand? :angry: Lol.

I was just bustin' your chops. :D:

Hey at least you stick to your guns, no shame in that. :cool:

SSN721
02-05-2004, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I'm pretty easy. I always get told I get mad over the dumbest stuff. But what's dumb about the Sox? This is serious business, and intend to treat it as such. :angry: Lol, I'll try to be more tolerant. :gulp: That helps. Now what's this about Rowand? :angry: Lol.

I wouldnt be surprised if there was or there was the potential for an "AR is/is not starting CF material" in every thread you post in SEAL. :D:
I think its great that you are standfast in your position and it certainly makes things a little more interesting. Plus I tend to agree with you. As far as this trade goes, I would pull the trigger in an instant if the organization is definitely sure that Maggs will not be coming back under any circumstances.

hold2dibber
02-05-2004, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Why not?

You're not talking about a real talent here,fourth outfielders are a dime a dozen.

I don't disagree, but it sure sounds to me like the Sox current plan is for Rowand to be a starter and for Reed to be in AAA. I don't think trading Maggs for Winn, Soriano and Garcia would change that.

Regardless of whether or not this trade happens (and, based upon the percentage of trade rumors that have come true this off season, I'm not going to go out and buy my Freddy Garcia Sox jersey just yet), the only way Reed makes the major league team is if he absolutely blows the roof off during spring training.

beckett21
02-05-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I don't disagree, but it sure sounds to me like the Sox current plan is for Rowand to be a starter and for Reed to be in AAA. I don't think trading Maggs for Winn, Soriano and Garcia would change that.

Regardless of whether or not this trade happens (and, based upon the percentage of trade rumors that have come true this off season, I'm not going to go out and buy my Freddy Garcia Sox jersey just yet), the only way Reed makes the major league team is if he absolutely blows the roof off during spring training.

I'd be willing to bet they would still find an excuse to keep Reed in the minors. I agree in the sense that Rowand is going to get a shot this year. I don't agree with that, but apparently it is all but set in stone.

A. Cavatica
02-05-2004, 03:53 PM
I'm sure Ozzie looked at Reed, noticed that he hadn't yet shown an ability to hit the first pitch when it's a foot and a half out of the strike zone, and demanded that the Sox leave him in AAA for a year.

beckett21
02-05-2004, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
I'm sure Ozzie looked at Reed, noticed that he hadn't yet shown an ability to hit the first pitch when it's a foot and a half out of the strike zone, and demanded that the Sox leave him in AAA for a year.

LOL--now THAT is funny! :D: