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hose
02-04-2004, 06:30 AM
Eddie Einhorn speaks out in the Daily South Town.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/arvia/x04-ard1.htm

mrwag
02-04-2004, 07:29 AM
Einhorn says...
"If we lose, we're not going to lose a lot."

That also means...
"If we win, we're not going to win a lot."

Maximo
02-04-2004, 07:38 AM
I feel a whole lot better, now.

CLR01
02-04-2004, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by mrwag
Einhorn says...
"If we lose, we're not going to lose a lot."

That also means...
"If we win, we're not going to win a lot."


Was he talking about losing games or their philosophy to not lose alot of money?

cornball
02-04-2004, 08:07 AM
I love the way Sox management thinks, for example: we have no obligation....we run it the way we want to run it.

But the fans better show up or we wont spend.....

There is no guarentee if you spend more equals more wins


The odds sure do increase.....talked about here and proven several times over the years.


Decided to go home........

Or would have been run out of town, arogant east coast attitude never worked here...In the mean time we have to stay.

Maximo
02-04-2004, 08:22 AM
When Reinsdorf and Einhorn first bought the franchise years ago, I got very optimistic primarily because Einhorn had a reputation for being a builder. He had lots of connections in an industry that I thought would help the Sox.

Then came things like SoxVision or whatever the pay TV thing was called. Compound that with some of the arrogant comments he would make from time to time. Frosting on the cake was after the Sox clinched in 83 and he and Reinsdorf were together on TV calling Harry and Jimmy, "scum".

I grew tired of Harry and Jimmy over the years, but the comment was way out of line. I expected a little more class from successful businessmen who were at the top of the corporate structure.

Those two guys lost me years ago and I doubt they'll ever receive my admiration again.

PaulDrake
02-04-2004, 08:51 AM
After reading this I wanted to go to the nearest wall and bang my head against it. Nothing is going to change. The only way the Sox will win anything is if they get real lucky one year and catch "lightning in a bottle."

poorme
02-04-2004, 09:01 AM
I hate the owners. Hate.

Hangar18
02-04-2004, 09:09 AM
That was an Excellent Article by Arvia. He was on the money
with his questions, which were ALL TIMELY, seeing as Einhorn said he "reads the papers and the speculation". Only proves that they come here and read what were posting. To say this team is losing money is ridiculous. Then why are they in this business still? GET OUT if you cant win being the longest tenured ownership group. GET OUT if you guys are just satisfied with "getting by". I thought JR said some really stupid things, but Einhorns views are just as bad. Have they BOTH gotten this lazy that theyre actually Believing Their Own Rationalizations?
Ridiculous

voodoochile
02-04-2004, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by CLR01
Was he talking about losing games or their philosophy to not lose alot of money?

Either way, it's playing not to lose...

CubKilla
02-04-2004, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Maximo
Frosting on the cake was after the Sox clinched in 83 and he and Reinsdorf were together on TV calling Harry and Jimmy, "scum".

I grew tired of Harry and Jimmy over the years, but the comment was way out of line. I expected a little more class from successful businessmen who were at the top of the corporate structure.

:veeck

"Don't forget all of that BS about running a first class organization."

duke of dorwood
02-04-2004, 10:15 AM
With the TV $, the park sponsorship-EVERY promotion and advertising on the walls and the scoreboard being sponsored, and drawing 1.9 million people with all that parking $, you'd have to be a complete vegtable to believe they are losing money

:reinsy

They'll believe anything I say

mdep524
02-04-2004, 10:28 AM
What a horrible downer of an article. Einhorn is an arrogant bleeping jerk. This just makes you want to walk up to him and ring his neck.

"I don't think we have an obligation to get out if we want to run it the way we want to run it," said Einhorn, who heard suggestions to the contrary from fans during SoxFest. "I don't think the fans have suffered, because there's no guarantee that you're going to win by spending money.

He doesn't think fans have suffered at all??? He has no obligation to us??? No guarantees???

WHAT A JOKE. :angry:

FanOf14
02-04-2004, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
A Quote from Einhorn:
"I don't think we have an obligation to get out if we want to run it the way we want to run it," said Einhorn, who heard suggestions to the contrary from fans during SoxFest. "

How can an sports franchise owner say something like this and still expect people to show up? Eh, I have to admit I go for the players, not the owners so in the long run his diarrhea of the mouth won't affect how many games I attend.

SSN721
02-04-2004, 10:59 AM
I dont really have anything prolific to say, I am just completely blown away by the fact that someone can sound and act like a bigger ass than JR. Absolutely mind boggling. This ownership group manages to piss me off more every day. ANd nothing is ever gonna change. I need a drink. :gulp:

CubKilla
02-04-2004, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by FanOf14
Eh, I have to admit I go for the players, not the owners so in the long run his diarrhea of the mouth won't affect how many games I attend.

That's the one thing that bothers me about my self-imposed White Sox Strike until the team is ultra-competitive or JR sells. The players shouldn't have to play without me in attendance, since I'm a fan, if I can attend. However, I just cannot fork over dollar after dollar to this joke of an Organization anymore. JR drew his line now I'm drawing mine.

Too bad.

StillMissOzzie
02-04-2004, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by hose
Jerry Einhorn speaks out in the Daily South Town.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/arvia/x04-ard1.htm

That's EDDIE Einhorn, but thanks for a great link to a great column. Just when you thought JR was the most pompous ass, I gues wee can thank our lucky stars that EE isn't more involved.

SMO
:angry:

Iwritecode
02-04-2004, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by mrwag
Einhorn says...
"If we lose, we're not going to lose a lot."

That should be changed to "When we lose, we're not going to lose a lot (of money).

FanOf14
02-04-2004, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
That's the one thing that bothers me about my self-imposed White Sox Strike until the team is ultra-competitive or JR sells. The players shouldn't have to play without me in attendance, since I'm a fan, if I can attend. However, I just cannot fork over dollar after dollar to this joke of an Organization anymore. JR drew his line now I'm drawing mine.

Too bad.

I agree. The Reinhorn won't stop me from going altogether, but it will limit my desire to find extra cash/go without something to go to an extra game or three.

ewokpelts
02-04-2004, 11:54 AM
wow.....and to think i renewed...Gene

Iwritecode
02-04-2004, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by mdep524
What a horrible downer of an article. Einhorn is an arrogant bleeping jerk. This just makes you want to walk up to him and ring his neck.

"I don't think we have an obligation to get out if we want to run it the way we want to run it," said Einhorn, who heard suggestions to the contrary from fans during SoxFest. "I don't think the fans have suffered, because there's no guarantee that you're going to win by spending money.

He doesn't think fans have suffered at all??? He has no obligation to us??? No guarantees???

WHAT A JOKE. :angry:

I agree. If he doesn't think the fans have suffered, then he has either forgotten what it's like to be a fan or was never one at all. Many of us (especially the ones on this MB) live and die with this team every day. Even in the offseason.

It's more like an addiction than anything and there's not a heck of a lot many of us can do to change it.

kittle42
02-04-2004, 12:04 PM
This is the closest I have come to saying for sure I'm not going to games this season.

Lip Man 1
02-04-2004, 12:10 PM
Phil was kind enough to give me a heads up yesterday that this was coming and I asked him after Eddie-baby made his comment, "We haven't paid a dividend in 24 years," how he kept himself from laughing out loud.

Just for the record both John Helyar in his book "The Lords Of The Realm," (1994) and the TV documentary on PBS Frontline: The Trouble With Baseball (1993) both of which I have, state that the White Sox were the 2nd most profitable team in baseball in 1991 with profit around 24 million dollars.

I guess in Eddie's and Uncle Jerry's case if you lie long enough you start to believe it.

Lip

pudge
02-04-2004, 12:16 PM
Okay, you all need to chill out... first off, what else did you expect? You've supported this team in the past, why suddenly stop now? Yeah, Einhorn is obviously not a PR genious, and I'm sure the SportsVision thing in the past rubbed people the wrong way - although imagine if it worked out the way it's worked out for NY and Boston, the Sox might be an even richer team and even better off right now. It just didn't work, maybe they were a little too ahead of their time.

At any rate, I don't think he said anything so horrible, it's just that maybe he shouldn't have said it to a newspaper reporter... They don't have an obligation to sell the team. It's their friggin' team. At least they aren't in a situation like the Mets, Arizona, Colorado or Baltimore (the past few seasons thanks to ridiculous overspending).

The Sox put one of the most competitve teams on the field in the '90s, and they've been competitve for 2 out of 4 seasons so far this decade.

I know we have complaints, I know we'd love Trump to own the team, but seriously, take a deep breath and just support the guys in uniform.

Iwritecode
02-04-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by pudge
Okay, you all need to chill out... first off, what else did you expect? You've supported this team in the past, why suddenly stop now? Yeah, Einhorn is obviously not a PR genious, and I'm sure the SportsVision thing in the past rubbed people the wrong way - although imagine if it worked out the way it's worked out for NY and Boston, the Sox might be an even richer team and even better off right now. It just didn't work, maybe they were a little too ahead of their time.

At any rate, I don't think he said anything so horrible, it's just that maybe he shouldn't have said it to a newspaper reporter... They don't have an obligation to sell the team. It's their friggin' team. At least they aren't in a situation like the Mets, Arizona, Colorado or Baltimore (the past few seasons thanks to ridiculous overspending).

The Sox put one of the most competitve teams on the field in the '90s, and they've been competitve for 2 out of 4 seasons so far this decade.

I know we have complaints, I know we'd love Trump to own the team, but seriously, take a deep breath and just support the guys in uniform.

This article was just *another* slap in the face to Sox fans everywhere and about the last thing any of us needed to hear.

Why should we stop supporting the team?

When it becomes abundantly clear that they prioritize making money over winning and don't care how the fans feel or what we think, then why should we continue to support them?

They are using a strategy that hasn't worked in the past 20 years and continues NOT to work. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again while expecting different results...

JasonC23
02-04-2004, 12:42 PM
Yet again, evidence that the second-biggest problem with the White Sox (first is the owners' refusal to, I don't know, have some guts and spend to win) is the complete and utter ineptitude of the entire organization when it comes to PR. I can't believe Eddie actually said, "I don't believe the fans have suffered..."

I hate to make this Cubs vs Sox, but seriously, would ANYONE from the Tribune Co EVER say, "I don't think Cubs fans have suffered"? OF COURSE NOT. They're not complete, utter, fantastic, unbelieveable idiots like the Sox owners.

"I don't believe the fans have suffered..." He might as well have followed by threatening to eat the children of Sox fans or exposing every female Sox fans' breast on live TV. What an incomprehensible dumbass.

bc2k
02-04-2004, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by CLR01
Was he talking about losing games or their philosophy to not lose alot of money?

I read it as the latter; minimizing their financial risks by minimizing the payroll.

I've never heard or read anything about Einhorn before this piece, but my opinion of him has been quickly formed. What an *******. This man's ego is huge. He's like a convicted murderer who wants to be caught, who wants to feel superior. It's not enough for Einhorn to be financially superior over most Sox fans, he wants to let those fans know it too.

He may be financially superior to Sox fans but he sure isn't smarter if he believes increased payroll doesn't translate to better odds of winning, as he states in the column.

What a prick.

Lip Man 1
02-04-2004, 01:02 PM
In case anybody is interested, here's a story on the history of SportsVision. (since Einhorn comments about it...)

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=2&id=2096

Lip

Lip Man 1
02-04-2004, 01:25 PM
I just got an e-mail from Bob Vanderberg. he brings up some valid points which I don't think he'd mind sharing with you...

"I saw where Einhorn said, "I read the papers. I see where people say we shouldn't have a budget..."

I didn't say they shouldn't have a budget. I only opined that the budget should be higher than 60 million..............like 75 million.......... and the big thing is this: they haven't figured out yet that their actions have turned off thousands of fans, in particular their push for the strike in '94.......... I keep going back to those last three home games before the strike: the smallest crowd was something like 41,700............. don't they see that? Or do they see it but don't want to admit it? Amazing...........

Lip

hose
02-04-2004, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by StillMissOzzie
That's EDDIE Einhorn, but thanks for a great link to a great column. Just when you thought JR was the most pompous ass, I gues wee can thank our lucky stars that EE isn't more involved.

SMO
:angry:


oops , I was in a hurry this morning :D:

ode to veeck
02-04-2004, 04:41 PM
It's kind of disturbing to me that Eddie Einhorn still doesn't recognize the fundamental problem with Sportsvision, ie. that Chicago fans were used to sports on free broadcast TV, and the fact that their main competition, the Flubs, had a bizillion games on WGN, even after sportsvision, had a huge impact on the Sox fanbase long term--even now as the Sox have finally backpedaled to offer some games via WGN-why don't Eddie and Jerry get it? its up to THEM to build the fan base with the right product , including distribution and availability

hftrex
02-04-2004, 05:32 PM
Whatever else one thinks of Einhorn and Reinsdorf, they are a lot better than that jerk Bill Veeck. At least the 2 Jerrys put up the cash for quality FA's like Carlton Fisk, Floyd Banister, Greg Luzinski and Albert Belle whereas Veeck's operation was losing talent left and right due to Veeck's cheapness.

Granted, the likes of Mark Cuban and Donald Trump may be much better than the 2 Jerrys, but the Einhorn/Reinsdorf duo are preferable to their predecessor as Sox owner.

ode to veeck
02-04-2004, 06:36 PM
Granted Veeck's finances were held together with smoke and mirrors, but he actually built a larger fan base in his 2nd ownership cycle (after the Allyn debacles) with the Sox vs the Eddie N Jerry show that have continuously lost market share for the last 25 years.

At least Bill was cognizant and vocal about his financial problems, whereas Eddie and "Chicago's always been a Cubs town" Jerry are stubbornly incognizant and in denial about their market share gaps, their continuing PR gaffs, or their role in insulting & driving fans away (sportsvision, 50th all-star tix, '94 strike, white flag, "come & then we might build it philosophy", etc., the list goes on).

In spite of totally destitute finances, Veeck not only put together one of the most exciting Sox teams ever (South Side Hit Men), but he also built the stable of young pitchers and hand picked Baines, who led the Sox, along with the free agents added by the new owners, to the '83 "winning ugly" division championship, whose 99 wins have not been matched by even the early 90s or 2000 teams.

For all their "money" (or not) the current owners have only put together but a couple of good teams on their own in the last 25 years, whereas in the same stretch Steinbrenner's got the Yankees enough rings for his thumbs.

Eddie and Jerry are full of themselves and full of crap and Chicago (as a city of great sports fans) and Sox fans in general deserve better. No long term contracts for pitchers, on the job training for managers, fans have to come to the park 1st, state pays the bills, etc. It's all a bunch of crap. No wonder Sox fans spend way too much time thinking about the Flubs--thinking about the Sox is too depressing with these two losers running the show :angry:

ode to veeck
02-04-2004, 06:42 PM
by the way who the heck are the "two jerrys" anyway !?!?!

WinningUgly!
02-04-2004, 08:10 PM
"Jerry's philosophy is we try to run it, most of the time, on an even basis.

"I feel the same way. As much as I want to win, I wouldn't have any fun being in this business if I ran a team to lose money just to win or with the hope of winning. I don't think that's a good way to run a team."

This pretty much tells you everything you need to know about this ownership.

joecrede
02-04-2004, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by ode to veeck
Granted Veeck's finances were held together with smoke and mirrors, but he actually built a larger fan base in his 2nd ownership cycle (after the Allyn debacles) with the Sox vs the Eddie N Jerry show that have continuously lost market share for the last 25 years.

At least Bill was cognizant and vocal about his financial problems, whereas Eddie and "Chicago's always been a Cubs town" Jerry are stubbornly incognizant and in denial about their market share gaps, their continuing PR gaffs, or their role in insulting & driving fans away (sportsvision, 50th all-star tix, '94 strike, white flag, "come & then we might build it philosophy", etc., the list goes on).

In spite of totally destitute finances, Veeck not only put together one of the most exciting Sox teams ever (South Side Hit Men), but he also built the stable of young pitchers and hand picked Baines, who led the Sox, along with the free agents added by the new owners, to the '83 "winning ugly" division championship, whose 99 wins have not been matched by even the early 90s or 2000 teams.

For all their "money" (or not) the current owners have only put together but a couple of good teams on their own in the last 25 years, whereas in the same stretch Steinbrenner's got the Yankees enough rings for his thumbs.

Eddie and Jerry are full of themselves and full of crap and Chicago (as a city of great sports fans) and Sox fans in general deserve better. No long term contracts for pitchers, on the job training for managers, fans have to come to the park 1st, state pays the bills, etc. It's all a bunch of crap. No wonder Sox fans spend way too much time thinking about the Flubs--thinking about the Sox is too depressing with these two losers running the show :angry:

Veeck was nearly as despised by Sox fans during his second tour as Reinsdorf is now. His call-in show on Sunday mornings was filled with the same complaints about cheapness that everyone has about the Reinsdorf regime.

CubKilla
02-04-2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Veeck was nearly as despised by Sox fans during his second tour as Reinsdorf is now. His call-in show on Sunday mornings was filled with the same complaints about cheapness that everyone has about the Reinsdorf regime.

At least Veeck had the ***** to face his critics.

hellenicsoxfan
02-04-2004, 11:55 PM
Unbelievable! :angry:

I had a question and answer session with myself:

Do Reinsdorf and Einhorn get together everyday and decide how to tick off White Sox fans? Probably not; it's likely just something that comes naturally to them.
Have they heard of or understand something called public relations? They sure don't seem to understand it very well.
Can they possibly be this stupid? No.
Can they possibly be this arrogant? Definitely.
Do they really truly care if the Sox win? It sure doesn't seem like it. While us Sox fans seem to live and die with every win and loss, it sounds like their goal is to break even and be competitive.
Have Sox fans suffered? The team hasn't won the World Series since 1917 or even been there since 1959. The team over the years has been rumored to be moving to Denver, Seattle, Tampa and I'm sure to other places I don't remember. Their games were pulled off free TV and put on pay TV. When the team has been good, management has never made the bold move to put them over the top. In 1994, when the team had a good chance to win everything, the owners were more concerned with winning the strike than winning the World Series. The owners have let the team become an afterthought in the city, thereby helping the dreaded Cubbies become bigger than they deserve. The owners raise ticket prices, lose free agents and blame the fans for all the problems. So YES, the fans have suffered.

Now that I've released some of my frustrations, I can go to sleep. Good night fellow Sox fans.

ode to veeck
02-05-2004, 09:44 AM
Hellinicsoxfan, Welcome to WSI!!!


Do Reinsdorf and Einhorn get together everyday and decide how to tick off White Sox fans? Probably not; it's likely just something that comes naturally to them. I think you're right about this one, this comes to them about as natural as you or I getting up in the morning or Joe Jackson whalloping a baseball

Have they heard of or understand something called public relations? They sure don't seem to understand it very well. Agreed, but also is it they plain don't care? more likely they do care a little, but just a much lower priority ... compounded by their arrogance (e.g., Jerry's interaction at fantasy camp)

Can they possibly be this stupid? No. Here I might have to differ--I think this is the most disturbing part---they just don't seem to get they're in the entertainment biz, that they need to establish product and distribution that will sell. They seem complacent while they continue to lose market share and are incognizant of continuing trickling losses in long term fan base

Can they possibly be this arrogant? Definitely. Obviously so, especially Jerry

hellenicsoxfan
02-05-2004, 11:03 PM
Thank you, Ode to Veeck.

I'm glad that I finally joined the 21st century and got myself a computer. Now I can read and post about my favorite sports team, the Chicago White Sox. I used to stay late at work so I could go to whitesox.com and read the posts there. But between the Sox fans fighting off the Flubbie trolls and the Sox fans fighting with other Sox fans, I got worn down. Thankfully, I found WSI.

sas1974
02-05-2004, 11:21 PM
I know. I have been lurking on WSI for quite some time before I finally was able to post and I am quite pleased w/ the level of maturity and intellect on this board. Even if I don't agree w/ a post, I can usually have respect for the person entering it.

Hangar18
02-05-2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by hellenicsoxfan

Do they really truly care if the Sox win? It sure doesn't seem like it. While us Sox fans seem to live and die with every win and loss, it sounds like their goal is to break even and be competitive.
Have Sox fans suffered? The team hasn't won the World Series since 1917 or even been there since 1959. The team over the years has been rumored to be moving to Denver, Seattle, Tampa and I'm sure to other places I don't remember. Their games were pulled off free TV and put on pay TV. When the team has been good, management has never made the bold move to put them over the top. In 1994, when the team had a good chance to win everything, the owners were more concerned with winning the strike than winning the World Series. The owners have let the team become an afterthought in the city, thereby helping the dreaded Cubbies become bigger than they deserve. The owners raise ticket prices, lose free agents and blame the fans for all the problems. So YES, the fans have suffered.



EXCELLENT POST. Maybe Moronotti can paraphrase this whole Post and make 3 or 4 Good Articles out of this. The Word Needs TO Get out there everyone.............This Ownership Group is a Sham. Im getting past the point of Being Insulted all These Years and getting to the point Where Im Starting to Take THings Personally. Do these guys think I/We are that Stupid?
They continue their "Come First, then We'll get Players" philosophy-never mind that it DOESNT work on sox fans. Just keep trying til we just show up right? I ThisClose with Einhorns Statements, of saying to hell with my season tickets for this year. Yup....Im still holding out .........
I can See the Cook COunty CHeetahs if I want .........

sas1974
02-06-2004, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
EXCELLENT POST. Maybe Moronotti can paraphrase this whole Post and make 3 or 4 Good Articles out of this. The Word Needs TO Get out there everyone.............This Ownership Group is a Sham. Im getting past the point of Being Insulted all These Years and getting to the point Where Im Starting to Take THings Personally. Do these guys think I/We are that Stupid?
They continue their "Come First, then We'll get Players" philosophy-never mind that it DOESNT work on sox fans. Just keep trying til we just show up right? I ThisClose with Einhorns Statements, of saying to hell with my season tickets for this year. Yup....Im still holding out .........
I can See the Cook COunty CHeetahs if I want .........

I know what you mean. It took some serious convincing to get my dad to re-up this year w/ me. I got him to go in with me 4 years ago. But this year he was at the end of his rope. He had tix for several years until the "white flag trade." After that, he did not renew for a couple of years until I talked him back into it. Actually when he first dropped his season tix after that trade, he wrote a letter to the Times that they published. It ended up in a morning executive meeting w/ JR. I answered the phone one morning and the woman said that she was calling on behalf of Jerry Reinsdorf and that he wanted to talk to my dad and address some of his issues to see if he could convince him to reorder his tix. To my dad's credit, he held his ground and told him that he lied to us all and that he didn't think it was worth his money to watch the product that he was putting out there.

nofluke69
02-06-2004, 12:25 AM
What's the old saying?! Only a fool keeps doing the same thing over and over, and expects different results.

Nice ownership!!!

ode to veeck
02-06-2004, 10:41 AM
nofluke69,

Welcome to WSI!!