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View Full Version : An uplifting article by Ladewski


SoxxoS
02-03-2004, 09:30 AM
A nice, positive article about this upcoming season. (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/ladewski/x03-lad1.htm)

I personally think we need to be a tad more negative on this board, though. :smile:

soxnut
02-03-2004, 09:50 AM
I agree with what he's saying. I'm just going to relax and see what unfolds.

CubKilla
02-03-2004, 09:56 AM
The only reason why Sox fans can have any hope in '04 is because they are in the weakest Division in baseball. Let's see how Sox fans would react to this team being in the AL East or West. Not to worry though, if the White Sox make the playoffs this season they'll be owned in the first round and Sox fans will get a taste of what this team being in the AL East or West would have been like..... barring any significant trade by the White Sox.

soxnut
02-03-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
The only reason why Sox fans can have any hope in '04 is because they are in the weakest Division in baseball. Let's see how Sox fans would react to this team being in the AL East or West. Not to worry though, if the White Sox make the playoffs this season they'll be owned in the first round and Sox fans will get a taste of what this team being in the AL East or West would have been like..... barring any significant trade by the White Sox.


Yeah when you're in the east...you get to play the Devil Rays 19 times..........

CubKilla
02-03-2004, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
Yeah when you're in the east...you get to play the Devil Rays 19 times..........

And the NYY, BOS, BAL, and TOR. Do I need to bring up how this team, with practically the same line-up last season, fared against bottom-feeders like TEX (3-4), DET (11-8), and TB (3-3)?

KingXerxes
02-03-2004, 10:06 AM
:KW

"Will we be the best team in the division? We could be, but if we're not it won't be due to lack of effort and creativity."


Maybe I've been in business too long, maybe I've grown too cynical - but isn't this statement (as it's been paraphrased) basically the foundation of an excuse?

The whole attitude of this organization needs attitude transplant - Hey let's start with a new owner!

Grobber33
02-03-2004, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
Yeah when you're in the east...you get to play the Devil Rays 19 times..........

Hate to remind you,but...The Sox were only 3-3 with Tampa Bay this past Summer.

Carl Crawford ruined July 4th in St.Pete(off Billy Koch).I know,because I was there(along with about 6000 others).

CubKilla
02-03-2004, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
:KW

"Will we be the best team in the division? We could be, but if we're not it won't be due to lack of effort and creativity."

Actually..... after this offseason, lack of effort would be excuse number 1 in my book for this Organization.

Tekijawa
02-03-2004, 10:10 AM
Hey, Sox fans, don't jump to conclusions


I watched Office Space last night and the headline made me laugh.

:D:

CubKilla
02-03-2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Carl Crawford ruined July 4th in St.Pete(off Billy Koch).I know,because I was there(along with about 6000 others).

One of the most heart-breaking losses of '03. Led to finishing the first half 3-7 after acquiring Alomar Jr. and Everett.

Was I the only one that had a feeling Botch would blow that game when he was brought in? I remember thinking that specifically when JM's dumb-ass brought Botch in, yet again, to blow a save. Flash took over the closers role afterwards. Only took JM 3 months and 4 days to come to the conclusion that Botch couldn't close a door let alone a baseball game.

Why wasn't that jerk fired before the second-half? Why, why, why, why, why?????

depy48
02-03-2004, 10:14 AM
:hawk
sit back, relax, and strap it down

KingXerxes
02-03-2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by depy48
:hawk
sit back, relax, and strap it down

The thought of having to listen to this guy for another year is too much to bear on a snowy February morning...........I'm sad.

soxnut
02-03-2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Hate to remind you,but...The Sox were only 3-3 with Tampa Bay this past Summer.

Carl Crawford ruined July 4th in St.Pete(off Billy Koch).I know,because I was there(along with about 6000 others).

What was the Sox record against NY and Bos last year??

soxnut
02-03-2004, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
The thought of having to listen to this guy for another year is too much to bear on a snowy February morning...........I'm sad.


I luv Hawk...... :smile:

KingXerxes
02-03-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
I luv Hawk...... :smile:

So you're the one.

depy48
02-03-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
The thought of having to listen to this guy for another year is too much to bear on a snowy February morning...........I'm sad.

would you rather have hawk or chip carrey?

KingXerxes
02-03-2004, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
What was the Sox record against NY and Bos last year??

IIRC:

4-2 against the Yankees

4-5 against Boston.

voodoochile
02-03-2004, 10:25 AM
Two parts of that article caught my attention and they aren't all that positive.

Tell me, if it took 87 wins to capture the Central Division a year ago, how many will it take this time around? Eighty-six? Eighty-five? Eighty-four?

Do I hear 83?

Oh joy, the Sox are on pace to win the central again...

Can we be the best team in the division? Absolutely," K-Will said. "But if we're not, it won't be because of a lack of effort and creativity."

Maybe... and nothing will be done to improve the chance other than lipservice and spring training.

voodoochile
02-03-2004, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by depy48
would you rather have hawk or chip carrey?

Are those the only opstions? Man, I went deaf at the right time...

KingXerxes
02-03-2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by depy48
would you rather have hawk or chip carrey?

Ten years ago I would have answered Harrelson - now I'm not so sure. It's a tradeoff being the spastic ramblings of Caray or the suffocating "know-it-allness" of Harrelson. As time passes - Harrelson becomes more and more intolerable, because he keeps rewarming the same old crap every couple of years and throwing it back out as thought (A). At least Caray doesn't pretend to be a deep thinker.

Note (A) - He is basically saying the exact same things about Ozzie Guillen now as he did about Terry Bevington when he replaced Lamont.

soxnut
02-03-2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
So you're the one.


You're dadgum right I am.............. :D:

depy48
02-03-2004, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Ten years ago I would have answered Harrelson - now I'm not so sure. It's a tradeoff being the spastic ramblings of Caray or the suffocating "know-it-allness" of Harrelson. As time passes - Harrelson becomes more and more intolerable, because he keeps rewarming the same old crap every couple of years and throwing it back out as thought (A). At least Caray doesn't pretend to be a deep thinker.

Note (A) - He is basically saying the exact same things about Ozzie Guillen now as he did about Terry Bevington when he replaced Lamont.

As for me, i turn the volume on the TV, and turn up ESPN 1000, and let Farmer and Rooney handle the game. But i have no problem with Hawk.

soxnut
02-03-2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
IIRC:

4-2 against the Yankees

4-5 against Boston.

Ok then they pretty even against them then, but then again they're pretty even against the Rays as well :(: . But I think it goes to show that they seem to play up/down to the level of their competition.

Now, does that bode well for them in the playoffs if they win the division?--I don't know. But hey, I love baseball and I love the Sox, and I'm going to enjoy them. And I will go into the season with a positive attitude. The games still have to be played. :smile:

KingXerxes
02-03-2004, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
Ok then they pretty even against them then, but then again they're pretty even against the Rays as well :(: . But I think it goes to show that they seem to play up/down to the level of their competition.

Now, does that bode well for them in the playoffs if they win the division?--I don't know. But hey, I love baseball and I love the Sox, and I'm going to enjoy them. And I will go into the season with a positive attitude. The games still have to be played. :smile:

I agree with that posting. I think the BASEBALL that actually gets played by the White Sox is fine. I'd like to win a pennant in my lifetime certainly, but we are much more often than not in the thick of the race every year.

What infuriates me are all the things that are tangent to the actual games themselves (the marketing, the park, the broadcasts, the promotions etc.) this is where this team has an unbelievable Achilles Heel. They manage to win and alienate at the same time.

voodoochile
02-03-2004, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I agree with that posting. I think the BASEBALL that actually gets played by the White Sox is fine. I'd like to win a pennant in my lifetime certainly, but we are much more often than not in the thick of the race every year.

What infuriates me are all the things that are tangent to the actual games themselves (the marketing, the park, the broadcasts, the promotions etc.) this is where this team has an unbelievable Achilles Heel. They manage to win and alienate at the same time.

10 years ago, I felt the same way. I thought the problems that confronted this team weren't baseball related, but I have changed my tune.

I think those are the excuses they use and the way they deflect criticism from themselves. It's not Jerry's fault, it's the fans's fault. It's not the fact that they've got an average team that they can't draw, it's because they've got a crappy stadium in a lousy neighborhood with a crosstown cuddly competitor to worry about. It's not Kenny's fault that they can get good players, there is a budget. It's not Kenny's fault that he can't hang on to good players because again, there is a budget. It's not Ozzie's fault that he has no experience, it's the budget's fault.

These are all purely baseball decisions that they have made in the past decade:

1)WFT: 'nuff said and no, it really didn't help that much in 2000 unless you think Foulke and Howry were that important to the team that year.

2)The Strike: Okay, so maybe this is a business decision, but that is part of the problem. Sox managment made it clear that they care more about the business side of things than the baseball side of things.

3)Sign and release: Belle, Everett, Alomar, Gordon, Wells, Colon, etc. The Sox never hang onto their free agent acquisitions which is why they are constantly rebuilding.

4)The thought that winning at a .501 clip is acceptable. That's right, they Sox keep playing for second and hoping. I am happy that the Sox win more than they lose, it makes great fodder for flubbie fan debates, but that is all it is good for in the long run. Sign the managment team to build a consistent winner. Stop doing things on the cheap in the weakest division in baseball. Hire competent people to run the show and then give them enough rope where they can make a move or two to put the team over the top year in and year out. It shouldn't be that hard. After all, the rest of our division truly are small market franchises...

soxnut
02-03-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I agree with that posting. I think the BASEBALL that actually gets played by the White Sox is fine. I'd like to win a pennant in my lifetime certainly, but we are much more often than not in the thick of the race every year.

What infuriates me are all the things that are tangent to the actual games themselves (the marketing, the park, the broadcasts, the promotions etc.) this is where this team has an unbelievable Achilles Heel. They manage to win and alienate at the same time.

I see what you mean by those tangent items. Well, the park is improving. I don't have a problem with the broadcasts, and I think it's cool that on ESPN they do the "Hawk calls" when showing Sox highlights. That's good marketing for the Sox in a way----even though it is not of the Sox effort. Promotions...I'm not sure what else to do......two nights for 1/2 price nights, fireworks, a really nice glove for kids on glove day, kids days......... With the other marketing aspects, I've sent in my ideas in the past, but..........

mdep524
02-03-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
The only reason why Sox fans can have any hope in '04 is because they are in the weakest Division in baseball. Let's see how Sox fans would react to this team being in the AL East or West. Not to worry though, if the White Sox make the playoffs this season they'll be owned in the first round and Sox fans will get a taste of what this team being in the AL East or West would have been like..... barring any significant trade by the White Sox.

When Chicago teams have great expectations on their shoulders, they typically fall on their face. Examples: '02 Bears, '01 Sox, '03 Sox, '03-'04 Bulls, '99 Cubs. Most of these teams were fresh off a playoff appearance and expected to perform well and make the playoffs again. They all were terrible from day one.

Compare that to recent teams nobody expected anything from: '00 Sox, '01 Bears, '03 Cubs. Those teams came out of nowhere to have great seasons and make the playoffs. So the last three playoff appearances for this town came from teams that no one expected to be there.

Chicago teams, with the obvious exception of Michael Jordan's Bulls) have proven they don't play well under pressure or when favored to win, which is a terrible characteristic. At the same time, the '04 Sox fall under that second category, so maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

*Note: I am NOT saying that this is an acceptable management strategy- oh, well we wouldn't play well if we fielded a great team so we'll go on the cheap and go out there with no expectations.

depy48
02-03-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
When Chicago teams have great expectations on their shoulders, they typically fall on their face. Examples: '02 Bears, '01 Sox, '03 Sox, '03-'04 Bulls, '99 Cubs. Most of these teams were fresh off a playoff appearance and expected to perform well and make the playoffs again. They all were terrible from day one.

Compare that to recent teams nobody expected anything from: '00 Sox, '01 Bears, '03 Cubs. Those teams came out of nowhere to have great seasons and make the playoffs. So the last three playoff appearances for this town came from teams that no one expected to be there.

Chicago teams, with the obvious exception of Michael Jordan's Bulls) have proven they don't play well under pressure or when favored to win, which is a terrible characteristic. At the same time, the '04 Sox fall under that second category, so maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

*Note: I am NOT saying that this is an acceptable management strategy- oh, well we wouldn't play well if we fielded a great team so we'll go on the cheap and go out there with no expectations.

#1 dont the sox have the highest payroll in the AL central
#2 if you go by "expect nothing, and surprisingly win" what are we to expect from the Royals, who had a very surprisingly good '03. and the Twins who we expect less from since they loss a lot of talent.

Lip Man 1
02-03-2004, 01:09 PM
from Bob Vanderberg's interview with WSI:

"For the Sox to win, they need to increase the payroll and stop being so stubborn about things. They also have to get rid of this feeling of inferiority. To me this approach, "we canít compete with the Cubs," sounds like defeatism. I think fans consider that a slap in the face."

Lip

MisterB
02-03-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
from Bob Vanderberg's interview with WSI:

"For the Sox to win, they need to increase the payroll and stop being so stubborn about things. They also have to get rid of this feeling of inferiority. To me this approach, "we canít compete with the Cubs," sounds like defeatism. I think fans consider that a slap in the face."

Lip

Considering a large, vocal percentage of Sox fans (you included, apparently) feel the team is inferior and never going to get better (at least not with 'Dorf at the helm), then why would they consider it a slap in the face? It's just confirming/reinforcing what they already believe.