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View Full Version : Still need a starting pitcher!


joeynach
02-02-2004, 03:10 PM
What is goin on here. We have 3 starters and i guess KW said SS will be our #4. But we have no #5 starter. We still need to pick up another starting pitcher. We could get Burkett for like 3 or 4 mil. We could try Ashby, Pedro Astacio, Dan Plesac, Jamey Wright, Brian Mohelor. Come one any of these guys we could pick up for 1 or 2 mil. And they are a healthier risk than Danny Wrong, Mike Porzio, or Neal Cotts. What is KW waiting for its just an extra 1 or 2 mil to solidify a huge gaping hole. Just do it an extra 2 mil on a 60 mil payroll is a mere 3 percent increase. OOOOOOOOOOO look out!

munchman33
02-02-2004, 03:13 PM
More than likely, Robert Person will be our fifth starter.

CHISOXFAN13
02-02-2004, 03:15 PM
Dan Plesac has never been a starter.

Mickster
02-02-2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
More than likely, Robert Person will be our fifth starter.

I seriously doubt that Person will become a starter. I have read several times that he may very well have stamina issues coming off surgery. He would fit-in very well as a middle releiver being able to eat up some innings that #4 and #5 sp will obviously bring. Will he be able to pitch 6+ in every 5th start? Only time will tell...

habibharu
02-02-2004, 05:04 PM
cotts or diaz will be 5th starter

Randar68
02-02-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
cotts or diaz will be 5th starter

Person (will be 1-2 seasons removed from surgury, no?), Rauch, Cotts, Diaz, Francisco Campos, and Pacheco are basically going to be in an open competition for the #5 spot. If it were up to me, I'd add Schoenweis (SP?) to the list and make it an open competition for the #4 AND #5 spots, and that very well may happen.

rdivaldi
02-02-2004, 05:07 PM
It would be a travesty if Jon Rauch is not given his well deserved opportunity to be the 5th starter this year...

rmusacch
02-02-2004, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Dan Plesac has never been a starter.

Plus he retired.

rmusacch
02-02-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
It would be a travesty if Jon Rauch is not given his well deserved opportunity to be the 5th starter this year...

Well deserved? How do you figure?

carusochop
02-02-2004, 05:34 PM
WE DO NOT NEED JOHN BURKETT. ANy of the young guys is capable of puttin gup better numbers than any reincarnation of him, Bernard is already one to many ex-giants. That money would be better spent elsewhere. We should've signed Damian Moss, he was cheap and halfway effective, so was D'Amico. I'm still praying for Maddux.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 05:45 PM
SS has added the same cut fastball Loaiza added last season. The thinking behind it is he should have an easier time with righties, as lefties aren't a problem. We have some guys that can step up, and if one doesn't work out as hoped, we have others who can do the job. You can switch your 5th starter throughout the season if it calls for it, not that it is ideal, but it's too early to get frustrated about it. Danny Wright flat out sucked last year, but was also hurt, and showed improvement as he was getting better. He's healthy, but still not my first choice. Let's see what kind of shape Person is in, he may be capable of it. Long relief is a possibilty as well. Here are some guys in winterball as possibilities.

Felix Diaz, 22 RHP, Starter Tigres
Stats: 1-0, 3.48 ERA, 31.0 INN, 27 H, 18 K, 6 BB
Diaz followed a strong season in Charlotte with a very impressive stint in the Dominican league. In fact, the Sox are starting to get very excited about Diaz and he will be given every opportunity to earn the 5th spot in the rotation or a back end bullpen position. Diaz always has had plus stuff, but has never utilized it properly and has battled minor injuries.

(Maybe not enough innings worked either.)

Francisco Campos, 31 - RHP, Starter/Reliever - Mazatlan
Stats: 10-2, 2.19 ERA, 90.1 INN, 79 H, 68 K, 29 BB
Campos dominance of the Mexican league got him a contract with the Chicago White Sox. Campos will likely be invited to spring training, but seems destined for Charlotte. If Campos can pitch like he did down in Mexico, he could quickly reach the Sox starting rotation, which appears to have plenty of question marks.

(Could be another Loaiza, but that's probably too optomistic. However, he could be a good find.)

rdivaldi
02-02-2004, 05:53 PM
Well deserved? How do you figure?

He has the highest ceiling of all our pitching prospects (literally and figuratively), put up rock solid numbers in AAA for the last 2 months, and appears to have finally recovered from shoulder surgery. It's time for this kid to be given an extended shot. He didn't win minor league player of the year in 2000 for pitching poorly...

Randar68
02-02-2004, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
He has the highest ceiling of all our pitching prospects (literally and figuratively), put up rock solid numbers in AAA for the last 2 months, and appears to have finally recovered from shoulder surgery. It's time for this kid to be given an extended shot. He didn't win minor league player of the year in 2000 for pitching poorly...

Yep. His numbers the past 2 years have been average, but if you can look past season-long numbers and look a bit deeper into his situation, it makes a lot more sense. Charlotte is one of the smallest parks in the monor leagues and Rauch is a fly ball pitcher. He doesn't depend on blazing velocity despite his size. It's all in the control and being able to use his curve and change effectively for strikes. He had no curve for almost a full year after his surgery, so TIFWIW.

He still has the talent to be a top 2 starter in this league, and he's proved it. Health is the issue, and he APPEARS (I know I have said that in the past) to be healthy now. Can he stay healthy? That's the biggest ? in my mind.

raul12
02-02-2004, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by joeynach
What is goin on here. We have 3 starters and i guess KW said SS will be our #4. But we have no #5 starter. We still need to pick up another starting pitcher. We could get Burkett for like 3 or 4 mil. We could try Ashby, Pedro Astacio, Dan Plesac, Jamey Wright, Brian Mohelor. Come one any of these guys we could pick up for 1 or 2 mil. And they are a healthier risk than Danny Wrong, Mike Porzio, or Neal Cotts. What is KW waiting for its just an extra 1 or 2 mil to solidify a huge gaping hole. Just do it an extra 2 mil on a 60 mil payroll is a mere 3 percent increase. OOOOOOOOOOO look out!

Face it--we're going to be mediocre next year.

SoxxoS
02-02-2004, 06:50 PM
As soon as we acquire Perez from L.A., that would make Shoenweis our 5th starter. That probably won't last long, at least until KW and Ozzie realize that he can't get righties out.

hold2dibber
02-02-2004, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by joeynach
What is goin on here. We have 3 starters and i guess KW said SS will be our #4. But we have no #5 starter. We still need to pick up another starting pitcher. We could get Burkett for like 3 or 4 mil. We could try Ashby, Pedro Astacio, Dan Plesac, Jamey Wright, Brian Mohelor. Come one any of these guys we could pick up for 1 or 2 mil. And they are a healthier risk than Danny Wrong, Mike Porzio, or Neal Cotts. What is KW waiting for its just an extra 1 or 2 mil to solidify a huge gaping hole. Just do it an extra 2 mil on a 60 mil payroll is a mere 3 percent increase. OOOOOOOOOOO look out!

It wouldn't cost nearly as much as you suggest for any of those guys. Burkett is the only one who will command a $1 million salary for '04. I'm guessing any of those other guys will end up with contracts of less than $1 million or miinor league contracts. Problem is, I'm not sure any of them are a better option than the guys we have in house. I'd be willing to take a flier on a minor league contract on any of them.

Lip Man 1
02-02-2004, 07:18 PM
It was interesting that Williams specifically DID NOT mention Rauch as being one of the 5th starter candidates.

As "Hawk" would say...'he gone' (and well deserved too!)

Lip

Mickster
02-02-2004, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
It was interesting that Williams specifically DID NOT mention Rauch as being one of the 5th starter candidates.

As "Hawk" would say...'he gone' (and well deserved too!)



Actually, someone posed a question later in the Friday night Q&A session asking just that. KW back-peddled, stating almost as an afterthought, that Rauch was another one who would favor in the starting #5 spot. It was clear from the tone if his answer that Rauch might be done (at least from the sox organization).

I would not be surprised to see him used as trade bait at some point this season.

SoxxoS
02-02-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
I would not be surprised to see him used as trade bait at some point this season.

That's not going to happen unless Gord Ask is hired to GM a team by July.

batmanZoSo
02-02-2004, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by joeynach
What is goin on here. We have 3 starters and i guess KW said SS will be our #4. But we have no #5 starter. We still need to pick up another starting pitcher. We could get Burkett for like 3 or 4 mil. We could try Ashby, Pedro Astacio, Dan Plesac, Jamey Wright, Brian Mohelor. Come one any of these guys we could pick up for 1 or 2 mil. And they are a healthier risk than Danny Wrong, Mike Porzio, or Neal Cotts. What is KW waiting for its just an extra 1 or 2 mil to solidify a huge gaping hole. Just do it an extra 2 mil on a 60 mil payroll is a mere 3 percent increase. OOOOOOOOOOO look out!

We should've gotten Kenny bloody Rogers. The guy is 13-6 every year he's supposed to be washed up. All he does is solidify rotations on the back end and push teams into the playoffs. But heck what do I know? I'm just the president.

beckett21
02-02-2004, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by carusochop
WE DO NOT NEED JOHN BURKETT. ANy of the young guys is capable of puttin gup better numbers than any reincarnation of him, Bernard is already one to many ex-giants. That money would be better spent elsewhere. We should've signed Damian Moss, he was cheap and halfway effective, so was D'Amico. I'm still praying for Maddux.

I agree with you here. Moss was picked up for a song by TB, and I think he has some upside, certainly more than half of these AARP guys. Don't understand why we didn't make a run at him. Maddog isn't an option, not going to happen. Person will be incapable of starting due to all his injuries (and as I have said multiple times sucked when he was healthy).

I also agree with the sentiment that there should be open competition for two spots, SS needs to earn his spot. I think he is actually servicable, but would rather have him be considered a #5 and get someone more proven in front of him. Unfortunately none of those other names excite me; Astacio is coming off injury, Moehler and Wright are mediocre at best and doubtful we can find another Loaiza out of that bunch. Trade seems to be our best bet.

rdivaldi
02-03-2004, 11:27 AM
It was interesting that Williams specifically DID NOT mention Rauch as being one of the 5th starter candidates.

As "Hawk" would say...'he gone' (and well deserved too!)

Then it's a good thing that you're not responsible for evaluating White Sox minor league talent...

jabrch
02-03-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by joeynach
What is goin on here. We have 3 starters and i guess KW said SS will be our #4. But we have no #5 starter. We still need to pick up another starting pitcher. We could get Burkett for like 3 or 4 mil. We could try Ashby, Pedro Astacio, Dan Plesac, Jamey Wright, Brian Mohelor. Come one any of these guys we could pick up for 1 or 2 mil. And they are a healthier risk than Danny Wrong, Mike Porzio, or Neal Cotts. What is KW waiting for its just an extra 1 or 2 mil to solidify a huge gaping hole. Just do it an extra 2 mil on a 60 mil payroll is a mere 3 percent increase. OOOOOOOOOOO look out!


YUCK YUCK AND YUCK...

Cotts might be the best of that bunch.

YUCK YUCK AND YUCK...

I sure hope we can pull a PK to LA deal.

hold2dibber
02-03-2004, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
It was interesting that Williams specifically DID NOT mention Rauch as being one of the 5th starter candidates.

As "Hawk" would say...'he gone' (and well deserved too!)

Lip

C'mon, Lip - what possible rationale do you have for saying that? You seem to be suggesting that the other guys in the mix for the no. 5 spot (Pachecho, Diaz, Wright, Cotts) are more deserving than Rauch. But if Rauch had not been so extremely talented and successful before his injury, would you be so quick to dismiss him? Or has your aversion to young, untested pitchers, and your (understandable) distrust of the future prospects of highly touted minor league pitchers led you to have a particular vendetta against Rauch because he was so highly touted before his injury? He was very, very good in the 2nd half of last year while pitching in a tiny hitters park. He has a ton of talent. Why is it "well deserved" that he not be in the mix for the 5th spot (if, in fact, he is not in the mix for the no. 5 spot, which I find very unlikely)?

Lip Man 1
02-03-2004, 02:06 PM
Hold:

Because Jon has been highly touted (as I explained to Jeremy when he got his facts wrong) since the 2000 Olympics.

In an era when kids are being rushed to the majors if they show anything, I think the four years that Rauch has spent floundering (though the injuries certainly weren't what he wished for) has caused the Sox to think 'it's never going to happen...'

I also think the lack of success by the franchise regarding highly touted kids has caused them to start desperately searching for the next 'quick fix,' in part to take the heat off their minor league operation. I'm not the only one who has been calling this into question, a few media folks have also been bringing it up.

Lip

ondafarm
02-03-2004, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
Then it's a good thing that you're not responsible for evaluating White Sox minor league talent...

Well, I'm not responsible for it, but I've seen more than most of the Sox minors system, hence my nom de plume and I think Danny Wright is going to surprise a lot of you this year. We'll know one way or the other by the end of ST.

SoxxoS
02-03-2004, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
Well, I'm not responsible for it, but I've seen more than most of the Sox minors system, hence my nom de plume and I think Danny Wright is going to surprise a lot of you this year. We'll know one way or the other by the end of ST.

Seriously...What would make you say that?

I think he has had more than enough chances to prove himself, and I have had it with the guy. I never saw that "97 mph" fastball he had, and he can't throw a strike with any of his pitches...unless he takes that heater down to about a straight 87 and gets hit to Canada.