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View Full Version : Goodbye Maggs, ESPN 1000 reports


joeynach
02-02-2004, 02:57 PM
This morning on a spotscenter update on our flagship station Tom Schear had an interesting comment. He said that all the trading of maggs talk isn't necissarly due to the sox wanting to dump his 14 mil salary. Mags said to KW directly that he wanted to become a free agent and didn't want the sox to offer him a contract extension or new deal. All i can say is goodbye Maggs. Thanks for opting out of the organazation that made you who you are and paid you 14 mil for it. Well now that we know Mags is just like every other athlete in this day and age, its all about $$$ (a la pudge). Nice to know ya Mags, if your not traded by the July 31 deadline ill pay you your 14 mil.

munchman33
02-02-2004, 03:01 PM
I think it's more than the money. I think Maggs really doesn't want to be a part of this team anymore. Perhaps its all the conflicts, or the losing. Or perhaps he wants to play somewhere that has fans who go to games.

Plain and simple, he doesn't want to be a part of the Chicago White Sox anymore. This makes it real easy for me to say goodbye.

jabrch
02-02-2004, 03:07 PM
Buh Bye...

I will miss Magglio if he leaves, but I will not blame JR for this one. JR and KW tried to get him to talk about staying, but he is playing their hand out for them. At this point in time, unless we are contending around the break or something happens suddenly before the season starts, I would fully expect to see him traded to the Dodgers before the deadline. At this point in time, having accepted the fact that he won't wear a Sox uniform in 2005, I'd take Miller/Jackson + Mota + Perez/Ishii and try to get Evans/McCourt to throw in Loney. I know that is not the best thing for the franchise today, but at this point in time, I don't know what else we can get any better than that.

Huisj
02-02-2004, 03:09 PM
Is it shocking that a very good player would like to move on from an organization that has basically treaded water for his entire career? The organization has shown no commitment to wanting to win, so why should he want to come back? Why should we consider him obligated to keep himself a part of a mediocre franchise when he can move on to better things, such as an organization that cares about winning?

(This is assuming that he doesn't go out and pull an IRod and sign with Detroit)

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 03:16 PM
I'm frustrated as well that he won't even discuss it. However, I don't believe hope is lost, as bad as it looks. He hasn't ruled out resigning with the Sox, he wants to see what his market value is. The owners got the market down in price this year, allowing for good players to sign far cheaper than they would have even the year before. I believe it will be much of the same this coming offseason. What does that mean? Well players like Tejada and Vlad were relatively unaffected by it and received good long term deals. However, even Vlad is essentially getting what Maggs is getting this year-14milion. Of course it's over a span of five years. Does Maggs think he's going to receive more than what Vlad gets? I doubt it, because he won't, but will be within the realm. I am hopeful, but not counting on it, that we can extend him for four years at about 12.5 million a year. It's certainly doable and well worth it. Now, he will probably be offered slightly higher than this from other teams. I guess it's a question of whether a team like Detroit is willing to really step up and offer well more than anyone else, a team like the Dodgers offers something similar and he wants out bad enough to take it regardless of our offer, or he resigns with us and is using the FA market to increase our offer. No way of telling this early, but I believe it's going to take a significantly higher offer, a winning team Boston being thrown in the mix (this scenerio diminishes in my belief if we are able to make the playoffs), or a bad club house tone set throughout the year (I don't anticipate this) to lure Maggs away. I could be wrong, but I hope he at least wants to stay if the Sox's offer is competitive. If not, it will really suck, and we will have to see if Reed is ready (expect good things from him as his career goes forward) or a lesser FA with the money saved.

munchman33
02-02-2004, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by Huisj
Is it shocking that a very good player would like to move on from an organization that has basically treaded water for his entire career? The organization has shown no commitment to wanting to win, so why should he want to come back? Why should we consider him obligated to keep himself a part of a mediocre franchise when he can move on to better things, such as an organization that cares about winning?

(This is assuming that he doesn't go out and pull an IRod and sign with Detroit)

I know we all have our quarrels with management, but its not like we're a perrenially last place team. This team competes every year. He could do a lot worse.

idseer
02-02-2004, 03:22 PM
would any of YOU want to be a part of this organization?
let's be honest, i can't blame a soul for wanting out of this comedy act.

npdempse
02-02-2004, 03:27 PM
I don't know what Maggs' thinking is, but I wouldn't be surprised if in some part it isn't related to the fact that he just can't get the props he deserves while playing for this team. All those endorsement dollars, all the other intangibles of notoriety await him if he dons dark blue pinstripes rather than black.

Trade Maggs NOW and get some prospects, some pitching, rather than watch him walk at the end of the season.

StepsInSC
02-02-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by joeynach
This morning on a spotscenter update on our flagship station Tom Schear had an interesting comment. He said that all the trading of maggs talk isn't necissarly due to the sox wanting to dump his 14 mil salary. Mags said to KW directly that he wanted to become a free agent and didn't want the sox to offer him a contract extension or new deal. All i can say is goodbye Maggs. Thanks for opting out of the organazation that made you who you are and paid you 14 mil for it. Well now that we know Mags is just like every other athlete in this day and age, its all about $$$ (a la pudge). Nice to know ya Mags, if your not traded by the July 31 deadline ill pay you your 14 mil.

Why is it all about the money. The statements you made contradict the indication that it is only about money. Maybe he just doesn't want to play in Chicago, he is from Venezuela after all. Don't you think the climate, city might have something do to with it? During the AROD/Nomar fiasco it was stated his wife didn't want to live in Chicago.

It may be a game, but it is still a job, and he just wants a better situation. I'd love for him to stay, but I'm not going to slap 'greedy' on his forehead just because of this.

jabrch
02-02-2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by idseer
would any of YOU want to be a part of this organization?
let's be honest, i can't blame a soul for wanting out of this comedy act.


YES, I WOULD. I USED TO DREAM ABOUT IT!

If I were bigger, taller, stronger, faster, better, etc. I would love to play for this franchise. I would love to hear my name announced over the PA system...

"and at First Base..base..ase..ase..., hitting cleanup..up...up... For YOUR Chicago White Sox, left handed hitter...hitter...itterr...er.. jabrch....abrch....rch....."

Nancy would play my theme music - the Jaws theme or one of the James Bond tunes...

The crowd would roar...

YES, I WOULD WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS ORGANIZATION.

Over By There
02-02-2004, 04:03 PM
Before you go crazy speculating that Mags wants to leave to play for a contender because this organization isn't committed to winning, let's wait and see what he does. I'm not saying he will, but if he signs with a club like Detroit like IRod did, just for the $$, we'll be singing a different tune.

Also, I think that argument holds little water because as others have said, we've hardly been terrible over the last several years. At least we've been in contention. Plus, it would be hard to look at last year's mid-season acquisitions and argue that the Sox organization wasn't committed to winning.

I'm not saying the Sox are Yankee-level committed to winning, but at the same time they are far from being the Brewers, for instance.

jabrch
02-02-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Over By There
I'm not saying the Sox are Yankee-level committed to winning, but at the same time they are far from being the Brewers, for instance.


And I REFUSE TO SETTLE for merely not "being the Brewers". In my eyes, that is just unacceptable.

depy48
02-02-2004, 04:19 PM
There's no doubt that Maggs will have a high value at the ebnd of the season. What the candidates that are able (money wise) and the need for him? Baltimore? Boston?

Iwritecode
02-02-2004, 04:28 PM
Obviously there is something about his current situation that he isn’t happy with. Whether it’s the money he’s making, the recognition he is (or isn’t) getting, the way the team is being run, etc… We probably won’t know for sure until after he signs next year. If he pulls an “Arod” and goes to a team like the Rangers or Tigers, then we might assume that it was for the money if they outbid everyone else. If he goes to a team like Boston, LA or Anaheim them we could probably assume that it’s either because he thinks those teams have a better chance to win or he doesn’t like the treatment he’s getting here. Especially if he signs for less than what the Sox offer him.

I guess it’s possible that he could change his mind if the team this year by some miracle goes out and wins the division and goes deep in the playoffs and draws 2.5 million in attendance. So until we see how well the team does this year, how much they offer him and how much he really signs for it’s impossible to know what his reasons are.

Maybe he does want to stay and just want to make sure he gets fair market value? Who knows…

Right now, they really only have 3 options.

One, trade him for whatever they can get and use the salary to aquire more players.
Two, hold out for a pretty good deal and trade him in order to aquire more talent.
Three, keep him all year long and hope they can either re-sign him as a free agent or take the draft picks they’ll get.

I just hope they make the right choice…

thepaulbowski
02-02-2004, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by depy48
There's no doubt that Maggs will have a high value at the ebnd of the season. What the candidates that are able (money wise) and the need for him? Baltimore? Boston?

Only was Boston could sign him is if they dumped some other salaries. They already are paying more than they want.

Huisj
02-02-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
YES, I WOULD. I USED TO DREAM ABOUT IT!

If I were bigger, taller, stronger, faster, better, etc. I would love to play for this franchise. I would love to hear my name announced over the PA system...

"and at First Base..base..ase..ase..., hitting cleanup..up...up... For YOUR Chicago White Sox, left handed hitter...hitter...itterr...er.. jabrch....abrch....rch....."

Nancy would play my theme music - the Jaws theme or one of the James Bond tunes...

The crowd would roar...

YES, I WOULD WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS ORGANIZATION.

I bet if you grew up in Venezuela in the 1980s, you wouldn't have grown up with those dreams of playing for the Sox. Unlike us Sox fans, Ordonez probably didn't grow up with an obsessive emotional attachement to the White Sox.

Over By There
02-02-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
And I REFUSE TO SETTLE for merely not "being the Brewers". In my eyes, that is just unacceptable.

I don't think you could have inferred that I think it's acceptable based on what I wrote, hopefully you don't.

I'm merely illustrating what it looks like when a team truly has no commitment to winning. The Sox don't fit that bill, if you ask me.

Do I wish they would spend, spend, spend? Yes. But only a limited number of baseball fans get to live that dream. It doesn't mean the other organizations don't want to win.

habibharu
02-02-2004, 05:07 PM
trade his ass right now! what is the reason to keep him! the dodgers are under new ownership and are willing to spend money to get off to a good start with the franchise. trade mags for mota,perez,and a prospect. i think KW should explore those dodgers trades again

mdep524
02-02-2004, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
trade his ass right now! what is the reason to keep him! the dodgers are under new ownership and are willing to spend money to get off to a good start with the franchise. trade mags for mota,perez,and a prospect. i think KW should explore those dodgers trades again

I'm sure KW is pursuing the Dodgers trade as hard as he can without looking desperate. He still wants to get good value. Plus, Dan Evans is on very thin ice as GM right now, I wonder if the organization will make any trades until they decide who their permanent GM will be.

I too would be happy with some incarnation of Perez, Mota, and Jackson/Miller. Maybe if we sweeten the deal with Borchard we could get two or three prosects (Loney, Gutierrez, etc.). But IMO his value is higher now than it would be at midseason when we'd appear more desperate, and the Dodgers woulsd only get him for 3 months.

carusochop
02-02-2004, 05:31 PM
wow everyone this is sad. Beltran said the same thing, then KC started to win and now he wants to stay. If things go well this year, Mags may very well change his mind. For all the bad that Guillen may or may not do, he will probably relate to Magglio very well, if Magglio likes Ozzie things could change as well. Can we please just wait til the season is over.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 05:34 PM
Non-confirmed, but I read on another forum that Maggs has an offer on the table from the Sox for 3 years 15 million per season.

Brian26
02-02-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
trade his ass right now! what is the reason to keep him!

I think we have a hell of a better shot at winning a title next year with Mags in rightfield than we do with Jeremy Reed.

That's one reason.

Daver
02-02-2004, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Non-confirmed, but I read on another forum that Maggs has an offer on the table from the Sox for 3 years 15 million per season.

With the nosedive that the FA market has taken in the last two years I find that diffucult to believe.

kittle42
02-02-2004, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Non-confirmed, but I read on another forum

Ugh.

Kittle42, continuing his fight against posts regarding posts on other message boards.

crector
02-02-2004, 06:10 PM
Remember that Ozzie trashed Magglio as well as Frank at his inaugural press conference for no apparent reason. No wonder Ordonez wants out.

All this is just a precursor to the damage that this classless moron is going to inflict on this team. By the time that this season ends, White Sox fans all over all going to have warm feelings of nostalgia for Jerry Manuel.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I think we have a hell of a better shot at winning a title next year with Mags in rightfield than we do with Jeremy Reed.

That's one reason.

True. Reed is going to be a very good player in my opinion, but he still needs some developing. A year in AAA can help him adjust to the majors a little easier. And let's make sure he still hits well for another season, although I have no reason to believe he won't. Don't think if he doesn't hit .400 though that he is falling off the wagon. Patience is his and strike zone judgment is what is strong point, and that usually translate into production at any level. Assuming we keep Maggs, which I believe is the case, then Reed will be better off. If need be, he can play next year, and money would be freed up for pitching. Maggs being resigned is obviously the ideal situation.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Daver
With the nosedive that the FA market has taken in the last two years I find that diffucult to believe.

With Vlad making a million less a year, but for over a five year spand, it does seem unrealistic. However, it could be an aggressive tactic to show how serious they are about him and increase their leverage in resigning him. I went to Sox Fest and I didn't hear anything there, so it very well may be bull.

hold2dibber
02-02-2004, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I think we have a hell of a better shot at winning a title next year with Mags in rightfield than we do with Jeremy Reed.

That's one reason.

Regardless of who plays RF, the Sox aren't going to win a title (assuming you meant World Series title) unless Willie Harris turns out to be Luis Castillo, Jon Garland morphs into Kevin Brown circa 1997, Billy Koch becomes '02 Billy Koch again, Loaiza, Frank and Lee all replicate (or approximate) their '03 performances in '04, Mark Buehrle becomes '01 Mark Buehrle, Politte and/or Mr. Zero are dependable and durable in middle relief, Paul Konerko and Joe Crede becomes forces and at least one of Rauch, Schoenweiss, Diaz, Pachecho (sp?), Cotts, Person or Wright gives close to 200 IP and a league average ERA. Lotta ifs there. In other words, it's highly unlikely that this team is going to do any post season damage (if they somewhere manage to make it to the postseason) even with Maggs.

But with that said, even with his impending departure, I wouldn't trade Maggs unless the Sox get some serious value in return. Otherwise, roll the dice this year and take the draft picks. I'd rather have draft picks than another Jon Adkins.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Regardless of who plays RF, the Sox aren't going to win a title (assuming you meant World Series title) unless Willie Harris turns out to be Luis Castillo, Jon Garland morphs into Kevin Brown circa 1997, Billy Koch becomes '02 Billy Koch again, Loaiza, Frank and Lee all replicate (or approximate) their '03 performances in '04, Mark Buehrle becomes '01 Mark Buehrle, Politte and/or Mr. Zero are dependable and durable in middle relief, Paul Konerko and Joe Crede becomes forces and at least one of Rauch, Schoenweiss, Diaz, Pachecho (sp?), Cotts, Person or Wright gives close to 200 IP and a league average ERA. Lotta ifs there. In other words, it's highly unlikely that this team is going to do any post season damage (if they somewhere manage to make it to the postseason) even with Maggs.

But with that said, even with his impending departure, I wouldn't trade Maggs unless the Sox get some serious value in return. Otherwise, roll the dice this year and take the draft picks. I'd rather have draft picks than another Jon Adkins.

I agree with not trading unless serious value was gained, or take the picks. However, if we win the division, anything can happen in the playoffs. If you're hot at the right time, there's no reason you can't. Hate to keep mentioning it, but the Marlins are proof. Anyway, I'm not trying to sound over confident, but if we made the playoffs, who knows, but I think we can get there.

DrCrawdad
02-02-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Regardless of who plays RF, the Sox aren't going to win a title (assuming you meant World Series title) unless Willie Harris turns out to be Luis Castillo, Jon Garland morphs into Kevin Brown circa 1997, Billy Koch becomes '02 Billy Koch again, Loaiza, Frank and Lee all replicate (or approximate) their '03 performances in '04, Mark Buehrle becomes '01 Mark Buehrle, Politte and/or Mr. Zero are dependable and durable in middle relief, Paul Konerko and Joe Crede becomes forces and at least one of Rauch, Schoenweiss, Diaz, Pachecho (sp?), Cotts, Person or Wright gives close to 200 IP and a league average ERA. Lotta ifs there. In other words, it's highly unlikely that this team is going to do any post season damage (if they somewhere manage to make it to the postseason) even with Maggs.

But with that said, even with his impending departure, I wouldn't trade Maggs unless the Sox get some serious value in return. Otherwise, roll the dice this year and take the draft picks. I'd rather have draft picks than another Jon Adkins.

I agree with you, in that they should hold him thru the end of the season and then if he leaves take the draft pick(s). If Magglio thinks that he'll get more than he's getting this year then he better go out and have a much better '04 than his '03.

jabrch
02-02-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
But with that said, even with his impending departure, I wouldn't trade Maggs unless the Sox get some serious value in return. Otherwise, roll the dice this year and take the draft picks. I'd rather have draft picks than another Jon Adkins.


Jackson and Miller are both top 10 SP prospects who are both about MLB ready. Mota is a quality MLB setup guy. Perez/Ishii would be fine 4th starters for this team. You (almost assuredly) won't get better than that with a first (after #15) and a sandwich pick.

Lip Man 1
02-02-2004, 06:53 PM
Huisj says: "Is it shocking that a very good player would like to move on from an organization that has basically treaded water for his entire career? The organization has shown no commitment to wanting to win, so why should he want to come back? Why should we consider him obligated to keep himself a part of a mediocre franchise when he can move on to better things, such as an organization that cares about winning?

I couldn't have said it better myself....83-79 average record the last six seasons gets very, very old.

Lip

LATruBlue
02-02-2004, 06:56 PM
Could some one please explain to me how KW could convince the Dodgers to give up Perez, Mota and Jackson/Miller for Maggs when everyone knows that he will be a free agent next year anyway?

MarqSox
02-02-2004, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
And I REFUSE TO SETTLE for merely not "being the Brewers". In my eyes, that is just unacceptable.
As well you shouldn't.

Still, I would venture that if you look at the big picture, we've been in the upper half of organizations throughout the course of Maggs' career. He's only been on, what, two losing teams in seven years? He's got a 95-win season, and his team has only been in rebuilding mode for two years (98-99). If he finishes his career here, he'll go down as one of the top 10 players in franchise history and will surely have his number retired ... if he leaves, there's certainly no guarantee he would have the same legacy anywhere else.

All things considered, he could have definitely done worse.

Mickster
02-02-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Could some one please explain to me how KW could convince the Dodgers to give up Perez, Mota and Jackson/Miller for Maggs when everyone knows that he will be a free agent next year anyway?

LA, I think the general sentiment around here is that KW should not give maggs away. If he is overwhelmed by an offer, say for Perez, Mota and Jackson/Miller, then it is a different story.

I know your position (about maggs being a fa, and we are asking too much for what might be a 1 and out player) and you might be right, but maggs is more valuable to us, even if for one more season, than just giving him to LA for lesser prospects/players.

There are far too many variables (weak division, possibility of winning crappy division, etc.) and mags migh very well re-sign with the sox. Only the future will tell. It could very well be that maggs tests the fa market and accepts a sox offer, afterall.

Lip Man 1
02-02-2004, 07:12 PM
Marq:

With respect (again) 83-79, one playoff appearance. ZERO post season wins. That gets old I can't blame him for trying to go someplace else that makes the playoffs more then once every 6-10 years.

I remember reading Skip Bayless, oh I want to say maybe in 99 saying that Mags would wind up in New York someday. He's the first media person I can recall stating that Mags was going to eventually leave.

Lip

jabrch
02-02-2004, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
As well you shouldn't.

Still, I would venture that if you look at the big picture, we've been in the upper half of organizations throughout the course of Maggs' career. He's only been on, what, two losing teams in seven years? He's got a 95-win season, and his team has only been in rebuilding mode for two years (98-99). If he finishes his career here, he'll go down as one of the top 10 players in franchise history and will surely have his number retired ... if he leaves, there's certainly no guarantee he would have the same legacy anywhere else.

All things considered, he could have definitely done worse.

I totally agree...and I wasn't implying that any of us should settle for this. Like everyone, I am just aggrevated to see one of the top 5 players we have developed in 30 years is going to leave us mostly because our ownership has not created an environment that he (or almost any other player) would want to stay for.

LATruBlue
02-02-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Mickster
LA, I think the general sentiment around here is that KW should not give maggs away. If he is overwhelmed by an offer, say for Perez, Mota and Jackson/Miller, then it is a different story.

I know your position (about maggs being a fa, and we are asking too much for what might be a 1 and out player) and you might be right, but maggs is more valuable to us, even if for one more season, than just giving him to LA for lesser prospects/players.

There are far too many variables (weak division, possibility of winning crappy division, etc.) and mags migh very well re-sign with the sox. Only the future will tell. It could very well be that maggs tests the fa market and accepts a sox offer, afterall.

Mickster, you are the first one to really answer the question that has boggled my mind. Particularly where you say "but maggs is more valuable to us, even if for one more season, than just giving him to LA for lesser prospects/players."

Because that answered my next question which would have been, would it not be more prudent to get something like Perez and a minor league pitcher other than some one not named Jackson/Miller, as opposed to getting nothing?

LATruBlue
02-02-2004, 07:33 PM
Also, if there is any truth to the purported rumor that the Dodgers are close to signing Maddux, then I would definetly think that Perez is going somewhere. It appears that Perez being traded now is contingent on us signing Maddux. Perez to the Sox for Frank/Konerko seems to be the most probable scenario right now, but knows. Everything is just speculative rumor right now.

Daver
02-02-2004, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Could some one please explain to me how KW could convince the Dodgers to give up Perez, Mota and Jackson/Miller for Maggs when everyone knows that he will be a free agent next year anyway?

Because Dan Evans is an idiot.

PaleHoseGeorge
02-02-2004, 07:49 PM
Thank you Magglio, for cutting your value. If his value was running out like sand through an hourglass, Magglio himself managed to blow his value to smithereens. You people who think we ought to hang onto him are nuts. He has never been more worthless to us and we have Magglio himself to thank for it.

Magglio is not coming back and EVERYBODY in the league knows it!

The Sox have *no* leverage to negotitate anything half as valuable as they might otherwise get in trade. If he is still here August 1 he becomes worth precisely ZERO to the Sox.

All the best ballplayers don't want to play for the Sox anymore. I can't help but get a terrible sense of deja vu about Reinsdorf's "first-class organization." I've been here before.

:veeck
"Magglio doesn't even want an offer from us? Well, we don't need no double-play hitting rumdrum on our team!"

LATruBlue
02-02-2004, 08:08 PM
Palehorse, Frank McCourt is just as stupid by announcing that he will get a hitter before spring training. Now there is a real idiot who under cut himself.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Could some one please explain to me how KW could convince the Dodgers to give up Perez, Mota and Jackson/Miller for Maggs when everyone knows that he will be a free agent next year anyway?
No one is saying this will happen. It's just that would be the only scenerio where the fans would be like, "Oh, that's okay I guess."Any other scenerio isn't worth it for us.

poorme
02-02-2004, 08:10 PM
It was my impression that McCourt could hardly scrape the money together to buy the team. Is he really going to add mega-salary?

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by poorme
It was my impression that McCourt could hardly scrape the money together to buy the team. Is he really going to add mega-salary?
No, but he said the payroll wouldn't drop off. He said it would continue to be over 100 million. Something like 110 million.

LATruBlue
02-02-2004, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
No, but he said the payroll wouldn't drop off. He said it would continue to be over 100 million. Something like 110 million.

There are a lot of skeptics concerning McCourt's promises. He doesn't have the money yet he tells Dodger fans what they want to hear. He couldn't pay for the entire team so he bought 52% to the tune of $226 M. He still had to take out a loan for $200 M and another loan from Fox for $26 M. He bought the team without using his own money.

He has to pay on a $200 M loan.
He has to pay on a $26 M loan.
He has to figure out to remedy $30 M in annual operating losses.

And he is not liquid.

When in the world is he going to get any money.

Oh, and then to top it off, it was reported in his plan to MLB that he was going to operate on a budget similar to the Gnats, around $60 to $70 M.

He's a bold face liar and hypocrite.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
There are a lot of skeptics concerning McCourt's promises. He doesn't have the money yet he tells Dodger fans what they want to hear. He couldn't pay for the entire team so he bought 52% to the tune of $226 M. He still had to take out a loan for $200 M and another loan from Fox for $26 M. He bought the team without using his own money.

He has to pay on a $200 M loan.
He has to pay on a $26 M loan.
He has to figure out to remedy $30 M in annual operating losses.

And he is not liquid.

When in the world is he going to get any money.

Oh, and then to top it off, it was reported in his plan to MLB that he was going to operate on a budget similar to the Gnats, around $60 to $70 M.

He's a bold face liar and hypocrite.

I knew of the financial difficulties, but I was unaware of the plan to cut it to 60-70 million. Although Fox was losing money, and it probably would have been implemented regardless of ownership change. I could be wrong, but either way, I understand being upset about it.

A. Cavatica
02-02-2004, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Could some one please explain to me how KW could convince the Dodgers to give up Perez, Mota and Jackson/Miller for Maggs when everyone knows that he will be a free agent next year anyway?

Because that Kenny Williams has some mad GM skills.

WinningUgly!
02-02-2004, 09:13 PM
I wouldn't rule out SD as a possibility for Maggs. There were rumors last season that he wanted to play there & live in the SD area. Also, the Padres have been spending like crazy this off season.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I wouldn't rule out SD as a possibility for Maggs. There were rumors last season that he wanted to play there & live in the SD area. Also, the Padres have been spending like crazy this off season.
Spent their limit though. Only reason why they are out of the Maddux running.

doctor30th
02-02-2004, 09:30 PM
Well I Knew pretty much from 2001 when he signed his first multi year contract with us that he was not going to sign with us again. He was so hesitant at the time and it took so much to get it done.

I'm pretty sure the only reason he even signed it was that he was still a 6 year free agent and the sox had an extra year on it that covered his first year of true free agency.

He hasn't wanted to be here ever since he had his first great season, cause he knows he can alot of money on the FA market. I'm sure he saw how much Vlad got and is chomping at the bit to have a great season this year so he can cash in on the free agent market.

There will probably be more of a market for him next year than there was for Vlad this year.

SEALgep
02-02-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by doctor30th
Well I Knew pretty much from 2001 when he signed his first multi year contract with us that he was not going to sign with us again. He was so hesitant at the time and it took so much to get it done.

I'm pretty sure the only reason he even signed it was that he was still a 6 year free agent and the sox had an extra year on it that covered his first year of true free agency.

He hasn't wanted to be here ever since he had his first great season, cause he knows he can alot of money on the FA market. I'm sure he saw how much Vlad got and is chomping at the bit to have a great season this year so he can cash in on the free agent market.

There will probably be more of a market for him next year than there was for Vlad this year.

Vlad is making an average of 14 million per year, the same as Maggs this year. The market may be better for Maggs, but not a lot better than that. Keep in mind that Beltran, Glaus, Nomar ect... will be free agents as well. That could hurt Maggs or maybe have no affect. I've heard the Sox, although not public, have an offer for Maggs for 3 years 15 million per. Not sure if it is true, but if it is, I doubt he will receive much better. If he doesn't take that, you can be sure that he pretty much wants out. Although, if he wanted that bad, it makes you wonder why he hasn't requested a trade. I think he wants to win, and if we made the playoffs, I believe he will resign. Maybe wrong, but that's what I think he's waiting to see.

Daver
02-02-2004, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by doctor30th
Well I Knew pretty much from 2001 when he signed his first multi year contract with us that he was not going to sign with us again. He was so hesitant at the time and it took so much to get it done.

I'm pretty sure the only reason he even signed it was that he was still a 6 year free agent and the sox had an extra year on it that covered his first year of true free agency.

He hasn't wanted to be here ever since he had his first great season, cause he knows he can alot of money on the FA market. I'm sure he saw how much Vlad got and is chomping at the bit to have a great season this year so he can cash in on the free agent market.

There will probably be more of a market for him next year than there was for Vlad this year.


Vlad signed for about what Magglio makes this year,and Vlad is hands down the better ballplayer in every facet of the game,and I doubt the FA market is going to improve anytime before 2007.

The MLBPA is going to have to live with the choices they made in 2002 for a long time.

DSpivack
02-02-2004, 10:18 PM
o-e-o, please don't go!

jabrch
02-02-2004, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Mickster, you are the first one to really answer the question that has boggled my mind. Particularly where you say "but maggs is more valuable to us, even if for one more season, than just giving him to LA for lesser prospects/players."

Because that answered my next question which would have been, would it not be more prudent to get something like Perez and a minor league pitcher other than some one not named Jackson/Miller, as opposed to getting nothing?

True, getting "nothing" is actually not an option. The WORST we could get is 2 draft picks from whatever team signs him as FA compensation. So assume it is the Yanks or something, it would be a late first and a sandwich pick. While Jackson/Miller are clearly worth a lot, we don't have to trade Magglio on fear of getting "nothing" unless we have that little faith in our scouting department. So, teams who want him, have to start the bidding essentially at two guys who would help the franchise; one of whom would have to be a young SP. Now, Perez, Mota and Jackson/Miller might be a bit steep, but I can see KW holding Evans/McCourt hostage since they need to make a big splash right now even more than the Sox - given what Moreno has done and the new ownership.

More likely, however, is that LA ends up taking Konerko off our hands for Perez. I think that's actually a better deal for the Sox in the short term (we'd be very much in the hunt for the AL Central this year) but not so great in the long haul (Jackson/Miller would be an awesome building block)

jabrch
02-02-2004, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The Sox have *no* leverage to negotitate anything half as valuable as they might otherwise get in trade. If he is still here August 1 he becomes worth precisely ZERO to the Sox.


George, ZERO isn't quite accurate is it? He is worth 2 draft picks after Aug. 1, right?

PaleHoseGeorge
02-02-2004, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
George, ZERO isn't quite accurate is it? He is worth 2 draft picks after Aug. 1, right?

I stand corrected. :smile:

I'm reminded of when Wilbur Marshall was about to leave the Bears and that idiot nephew of Papa Bear went public with his sentiments about the Pro Bowl linebacker...

:mccaskey
"We want the draft picks."

tanko
02-02-2004, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Vlad signed for about what Magglio makes this year,and Vlad is hands down the better ballplayer in every facet of the game,and I doubt the FA market is going to improve anytime before 2007.

The MLBPA is going to have to live with the choices they made in 2002 for a long time.


I think Mags is a better pure hitter then Vladdy a little more refined but Vlad is stronger and faster and a better outfielder.

beckett21
02-02-2004, 10:41 PM
Since others are indulging fantasies here, I say let's ship him to Montreal in some type of package deal for one of their young arms. They have a few (Zach Day, Claudio Vargas, Tony Armas, Tomo Okha). Maybe we could find a way to get Vidro and Wilkerson with a pitcher. That would plug all our holes, albeit leave a void in RF (Mondesi??) Kenny has a good rapport with Omar Minaya. I haven't thought out all the details, just thought it would be fun to fantasize, if it truly appears we will lose Mags anyway. Montreal can then trade Mags to a contender in July, which fits in with their M.O. nicely.

Dare to dream... :D:

carusochop
02-02-2004, 10:51 PM
Actually, trading Magglio to the Expos and receving a package including Armas and Vidro would be a good deal for us. Then if we did sign Mondesi, i really think we would have improved our team. Mondesi would be a good fit here, if there is one thing Guillen is going to be good at it will be handling players with Big egos.

depy48
02-02-2004, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
Since others are indulging fantasies here, I say let's ship him to Montreal in some type of package deal for one of their young arms. They have a few (Zach Day, Claudio Vargas, Tony Armas, Tomo Okha). Maybe we could find a way to get Vidro and Wilkerson with a pitcher. That would plug all our holes, albeit leave a void in RF (Mondesi??) Kenny has a good rapport with Omar Minaya. I haven't thought out all the details, just thought it would be fun to fantasize, if it truly appears we will lose Mags anyway. Montreal can then trade Mags to a contender in July, which fits in with their M.O. nicely.

Dare to dream... :D:


I've always been an Armas fan, i wouldlnt mind that deal.

Brian26
02-02-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I couldn't have said it better myself....83-79 average record the last six seasons gets very, very old.
Lip


:hawk

"Well, you know what, Lip, partner. From 1990 to 1997, over the course of an 8 year period, the Atlanta Braves had the best record in baseball. Ya know who had the 2nd best record in baseball? YOUR Chicago White Sox. And we have the same number of World Championships."

:DJ

"Um, Hawkeroo, actually Atlanta did win one in '95"

:hawk

"I love it when you analyze, DJ."

beckett21
02-02-2004, 11:16 PM
:KW

"So it has been written, so it shall be done."

LOL! If only it were that simple. But I do think it would be a great deal for us, but there are a lot of variables I am sure that would have to be taken into account which I have really not thought about. I just get tired of beating the Dodger dead horse...I think it is highly unlikely for us to strike a deal with them given the animosity/hatred between Evans/KW. Now if Evans loses his job, I think something could happen there. I just know KW has dealt well with les Expos in the past, and they have a lot of talent over there, remarkably. Just don't know how much of it they would be willing to part with, but Mags would make a nice replacement for Vlad, if only for a year... :smile:

DISCLAIMER: This is not an official rumor...just an idea I have presented :D:

Jjav829
02-03-2004, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
Since others are indulging fantasies here, I say let's ship him to Montreal in some type of package deal for one of their young arms. They have a few (Zach Day, Claudio Vargas, Tony Armas, Tomo Okha). Maybe we could find a way to get Vidro and Wilkerson with a pitcher. That would plug all our holes, albeit leave a void in RF (Mondesi??) Kenny has a good rapport with Omar Minaya. I haven't thought out all the details, just thought it would be fun to fantasize, if it truly appears we will lose Mags anyway. Montreal can then trade Mags to a contender in July, which fits in with their M.O. nicely.

Dare to dream... :D:

Wow, that is one hell of a dream. As long as we're at it, how about we ship him to the A's for Tim Hudson...

SpringfldFan
02-03-2004, 12:15 AM
I say trade him now. Don't wait until midseason. Every year he starts off cold with the weather and doesn't really kick into gear until after the all star break. His value is greater now then it will be in late June while he is still hitting .270.

beckett21
02-03-2004, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Wow, that is one hell of a dream. As long as we're at it, how about we ship him to the A's for Tim Hudson...

Are you mocking me? :D:

Hey I never said it WOULD happen... :smile:

But since so many people seem to want to ship out Konerko, Koch, and the rest of the dregs on our team for "awesome" deals, at least by trading Maggs we should expect to get something in return worth having...not necessarily all of those guys of course. Montreal seems like a good fit for us to me. But I don't get the big $$$ for those decisions...

jabrch
02-03-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
I stand corrected. :smile:

I'm reminded of when Wilbur Marshall was about to leave the Bears and that idiot nephew of Papa Bear went public with his sentiments about the Pro Bowl linebacker...

:mccaskey
"We want the draft picks."

OMG....I remember that. That was terrible. Now Wilbur only had one or two good seasons after he left, but to hear McCaskey say that was tragic. Wilbur was one of my favorite of the 85 Bears team.

The question I have is do we have faith in the scouts that they can turn a late first and a sandwich pick into one decent major league player in 3 years? My answer is no - but you never know.

TheRockinMT
02-03-2004, 12:59 AM
$14M is a lot of money and I think Maggs and his agent will learn on the free agent market next year that he isn't going to get more and maybe he will get less. KW says he will try and talk Maggs out of the FA mindset and resign him and I hope Maggs comes around. The grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side of the fence.

LATruBlue
02-03-2004, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
True, getting "nothing" is actually not an option. The WORST we could get is 2 draft picks from whatever team signs him as FA compensation.

Jabrch, the WORST you could is get nothing. The next best thing other than get nothing is getting two draft picks should KW offer Maggs arbitration and he refuses. Therefore you (obviously) must believe that KW will offer Maggs arbitration in order to be eligible for your compensatory picks.

SEALgep
02-03-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Jabrch, the WORST you could is get nothing. The next best thing other than get nothing is getting two draft picks should KW offer Maggs arbitration and he refuses. Therefore you (obviously) must believe that KW will offer Maggs arbitration in order to be eligible for your compensatory picks.
I do believe they'll offer arbitration. If for no other reason the Sox can use Vlad's contract to their advantage. However, LATruBlue, you can't discount this season. Maggs can help us win the division. That's not just a bonus when talking about players, that's why they're here, if only for a year. We have insurance with Reed coming up as well. Also the Royals are doing something similar with Beltran. They thought they wouldn't be able to afford him, and they still probably won't, but he has said to like what the Royals are doing. Maybe Maggs will have a change of heart about resigning before the end of the season. Either way though, he's going to help them compete for the division. Maggs will be the same for us. So to say we should give him up for because we might lose him isn't going to cut it. You think the Mota/Perez/Miller deal is too much, which is fine, but it doesn't make sense to for us otherwise. We have a division to think about.

LATruBlue
02-03-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I do believe they'll offer arbitration. If for no other reason the Sox can use Vlad's contract to their advantage. However, LATruBlue, you can't discount this season. Maggs can help us win the division. That's not just a bonus when talking about players, that's why they're here, if only for a year. We have insurance with Reed coming up as well. Also the Royals are doing something similar with Beltran. They thought they wouldn't be able to afford him, and they still probably won't, but he has said to like what the Royals are doing. Maybe Maggs will have a change of heart about resigning before the end of the season. Either way though, he's going to help them compete for the division. Maggs will be the same for us. So to say we should give him up for because we might lose him isn't going to cut it. You think the Mota/Perez/Miller deal is too much, which is fine, but it doesn't make sense to for us otherwise. We have a division to think about.

SEALgep, the Sox will do what they think is best for the team as will the Dodgers.

SEALgep
02-03-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
SEALgep, the Sox will do what they think is best for the team as will the Dodgers.
Exactly, but my point is that many Dodger fans, not necessarily you in particular, feel we should just give Maggs to the Dodgers for whatever we can get. They say we'll lose him next year, and that they can get him next year. That may or may not happen, but the Sox, unlike the Dodgers thus far, are willing to play for this coming year.