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LittleBears Suck
01-31-2004, 09:31 PM
Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a deep fly to right field, runners tag up. Right fielder throws for the plate, but the throw is cut off the nail the runner trying to take second. The throw to second, however, is bobbled, and heads to center field. The runner who was on second realizes this, and then heads home.

The umpire deems, however, that the runner who was on third left early for home, that is, he did not properly tag up. What is the ruling?

Is a throw to third necessary to get out the original runner? Is the runner who was on second out for "passing" the runner in front of him on the basepaths? If so, can the runner who was on first and went for second be called out if he goes for third?

Daver
01-31-2004, 09:46 PM
You should be able to find your answer here. (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/runner_7.jsp)

:bandance:

Brian26
01-31-2004, 09:47 PM
Without having the rulebook in front of me, I'll give this a try.

I think the pitcher would have to step off the rubber and appeal to third base before he made the first pitch to the next batter. The runner on third would be called out (if he indeed left early), and the other two runners would return to their original bases (1st and 2nd).

That's my guess. Good question....curious what other people think.

WinningUgly!
01-31-2004, 09:50 PM
Unless two are out, the status of a following runner is not affected by a preceding runner's failure to touch or retouch a base. If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following him shall score.

poorme
01-31-2004, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Without having the rulebook in front of me, I'll give this a try.

I think the pitcher would have to step off the rubber and appeal to third base before he made the first pitch to the next batter. The runner on third would be called out (if he indeed left early), and the other two runners would return to their original bases (1st and 2nd).

That's my guess. Good question....curious what other people think.

I think you are correct except I believe the following runners would be allowed to advance.

voodoochile
01-31-2004, 09:51 PM
I think that the runner on third is out everyone else stays where they are. But, I admit that I am guessing...

Brian26
01-31-2004, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Unless two are out, the status of a following runner is not affected by a preceding runner's failure to touch or retouch a base. If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following him shall score.

So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, this means the runner on 2nd can score as long as the appealed out at 3rd base isn't the final out of the inning?

WinningUgly!
01-31-2004, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, this means the runner on 2nd can score as long as the appealed out at 3rd base isn't the final out of the inning?

I believe so.

Brian26
01-31-2004, 09:58 PM
Talk about dry reading though. That rulebook makes George Will's writing look exciting.

voodoochile
01-31-2004, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I believe so.

I can vouch for the third out part of it. It would be a force out and would supercede any runs scored.

WinningUgly!
01-31-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Talk about dry reading though. That rulebook makes George Will's writing look exciting.

Yeah, it's no wonder the umps don't know what the hell is going on half the time. :)

SEALgep
01-31-2004, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Unless two are out, the status of a following runner is not affected by a preceding runner's failure to touch or retouch a base. If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following him shall score.

That's correct.

RKMeibalane
01-31-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Yeah, it's no wonder the umps don't know what the hell is going on half the time. :)

Not half the time. All the time. :smile:

Rex Hudler
01-31-2004, 11:23 PM
So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, this means the runner on 2nd can score as long as the appealed out at 3rd base isn't the final out of the inning?

You got it!

Talk about dry reading though. That rulebook makes George Will's writing look exciting.

You think the rule book is bad.... In addition to the rule book there is another official book umpires use that is a Case Book, which provides interpretations of the rules. It is called a Case Book and uses sample situations to illustrate how the rules should be applied.

That book is twice as thick as the rule book.

Rex Hudler
01-31-2004, 11:30 PM
Another clarification..... An out made on appeal is not a force out such as throwing to 2B to beat a runner from 1B on a ground ball.

For instance, let's say the runner on 3B tagged properly and scored after the catch. The runner on 2B was thrown out trying to go from second to third after tagging. The runner on 1B advanced to 2B on the throw to 3B, but left the bag early.

If the defensive team appeals the runner at 1B left early and he is called out for the third out, the runner at 3B who tagged properly is not affected and scores on the play. There is a difference between a force out and a force play.

If you want to get really funky with rules people always misinterpret try these falsehoods.....

The tie goes to the runner..... (wrong)

The hand is part of the bat.... (not true)

You even hear announcers on TV saying both of those, however, there is no truth to either.

WinningUgly!
02-01-2004, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler


If you want to get really funky with rules people always misinterpret try these falsehoods.....

The tie goes to the runner..... (wrong)

The hand is part of the bat.... (not true)

You even hear announcers on TV saying both of those, however, there is no truth to either.

I believe the hand is only part of the bat if the hitter swings at the pitch...right?

Rex Hudler
02-01-2004, 12:17 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
I believe the hand is only part of the bat if the hitter swings at the pitch...right?

Nope, the hand is never part of the bat. If the batter swings and the ball hits him in the face it is a dead ball and a strike. Same thing if it hits him in the hands. If he is not swinging, then it is a HBP and he goes to 1B. The hand is part of the body, not the bat.

The gray area comes when the ball hits both the hand and the knob of the bat. It is very difficult for the umpire to determine which happened first. If there is a definite mark on the players hand, he will usually give the hitter the benefit of the doubt, but that can be tough to do when you hear the ball hit the knob.