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A. Cavatica
01-31-2004, 09:25 AM
From whitesox.com:

The general manager also rattled off a litany of young pitchers and non-roster invitees who should more than adequately compete for the fifth spot in the rotation.

"Robert Person, Neal Cotts, Dan Wright and Felix Diaz is a guy that is certainly on our radar screen," Williams said. "It will be competitive for the fourth and fifth spots.

"Scott Schoeneweis is penciled in the fourth spot, but that's with the darkest pencil possible -- probably a No. 2 pencil," added Williams with a laugh. "He's been a guy I've targeted for three years, in terms of things I've been seeing from him in Anaheim and once we got him over here."

What KW sees in Schoeneweis is mystifying, since his career to date screams SITUATIONAL LEFTY!

Wright's another guy who seems better in the 'pen. I don't think Diaz & Cotts are ready; neither goes deep into games, and Diaz didn't have nearly the season Cotts had last year.

So I'm praying that Person turns out to have bionic implants and that LaMarr Hoyt has something left in the tank.

ondafarm
01-31-2004, 09:33 AM
I think Dan Wright might surprise a lot of people this year.

A. Cavatica
01-31-2004, 09:39 AM
There should be other candidates in the mix as well (Rauch, Stewart, Pacheco). I wonder how significant it is that KW didn't mention Rauch.

DrCrawdad
01-31-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
There should be other candidates in the mix as well (Rauch, Stewart, Pacheco). I wonder how significant it is that KW didn't mention Rauch.

In the Q&A on Friday someone asked about Rauch. Kenny mentioned that Rauch is still in the mix. Although KW sounded a bit tentative about Rauch saying something about his injury and how Rauch needs to get back to 2K type throwing. The questioner asked what Rauch's velocity was before the injury. KW said 92-94 at the very top, but then seemed to back off that number, he probably realized that that was a bit rosy.

DrCrawdad
01-31-2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
From whitesox.com:



What KW sees in Schoeneweis is mystifying, since his career to date screams SITUATIONAL LEFTY!

Wright's another guy who seems better in the 'pen. I don't think Diaz & Cotts are ready; neither goes deep into games, and Diaz didn't have nearly the season Cotts had last year.

So I'm praying that Person turns out to have bionic implants and that LaMarr Hoyt has something left in the tank.

LaMarr certainly looks better now than before.

http://chicagofantasybaseballcamp.com/images/Hoyt_small.jpg http://home.mindspring.com/~dcrosby101/SoxFest/SoxFest-Thumbnails/8.jpg

34 Inch Stick
01-31-2004, 10:58 AM
In my opinion if there is a battle for more than one spot in the starting rotation in Spring Training we are doomed. If Schoenweiss is starting we are also doomed. I don't understand why Kenny seems to fixate on some of these players yet cannot appreciate Frank. If he was GM for the Angels he would never trade a player away.

beckett21
01-31-2004, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
There should be other candidates in the mix as well (Rauch, Stewart, Pacheco). I wonder how significant it is that KW didn't mention Rauch.

I didn't see Grilli's name either. Wonder how he will look in ST. As for Person, he was bad when he was HEALTHY. That guy is awful.

jeremyb1
01-31-2004, 11:14 AM
I can't believe he didn't mention Rauch. That's really idiotic. Regardless of his velocity he was obviously throwing quite well at the end of last season.

DrCrawdad
01-31-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I can't believe he didn't mention Rauch. That's really idiotic. Regardless of his velocity he was obviously throwing quite well at the end of last season.

No, I think KW did talk about Rauch yesterday. KW claimed that the Sox are still high on Rauch just that they're concerned with his health.

Huisj
01-31-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I can't believe he didn't mention Rauch. That's really idiotic. Regardless of his velocity he was obviously throwing quite well at the end of last season.

In AAA. heck, he can probably get by ok there by simply being 6'11".

Soxfest
01-31-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
From whitesox.com:



What KW sees in Schoeneweis is mystifying, since his career to date screams SITUATIONAL LEFTY!

Wright's another guy who seems better in the 'pen. I don't think Diaz & Cotts are ready; neither goes deep into games, and Diaz didn't have nearly the season Cotts had last year.

So I'm praying that Person turns out to have bionic implants and that LaMarr Hoyt has something left in the tank.

Great call on SS his numbers are good in relief and terrible as a starter KW mystifys me in general.

Rex Hudler
01-31-2004, 12:37 PM
I can't believe he didn't mention Rauch. That's really idiotic. Regardless of his velocity he was obviously throwing quite well at the end of last season.

Can't state the validity of this, but I was told that KW and Rauch got into it pretty good during Spring Training last year and basically KW stuck him in AAA all year "as a punishment" or "to prove a point".

I was also told by someone at Charlotte last year that although Rauch's numbers were solid, he didn't look that good and they didn't think he deserved a callup.

Those were two different sources, but both ones that I trust. Of course, the first one could be exxagerated a bit as are a lot of things that are passed along through many people. And the second is one guy's opinion.

CubKilla
01-31-2004, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
I think Dan Wright might surprise a lot of people this year.

Only in the bullpen. He doesn't have it as a starter.

Lip Man 1
01-31-2004, 12:49 PM
Pitching usually wins championships. Unfortunately pitching isn't cheap and the Sox claim they can't afford it. barring some totally unexpected surprises the 2004 Sox are going to short in that crucial department and the on field results will show it.

"You get what you pay for...."

and I did find the comments about Rauch to be funny. With all due resepect Jeremy, "he gone..." Sadly another possible Sox success story that never got close to getting on track.

Lip

Lip Man 1
01-31-2004, 12:53 PM
Onthefarm:

Regarding Dan Wright, personally I have little faith in him because like other Sox pitchers he was rushed to the bigs without a lot of time spent learning his craft in the minors but beyond that I think his problem is mental.

Last year you recall when he hurt his arm he had normal concerns. I can't blame him given the reputation of the Sox 'crack' medical staff, however when his own doctor, James Andrews told him he was fine, I got the impression that he still didn't believe it.

I think that showed in the way he pitched, or more to the point the way he didn't pitch.

Maybe this year will be different but if his mental makeup is still the same then I think you'll get the same results.

Lip

depy48
01-31-2004, 02:30 PM
We really dont know all that much about Grilli, so he might impress some people. I'm surprised that KW left him off that list. And with Person, i think that he has something to contribute, so I wouldnt mind seeing him compete for the fifth spot. Neal Cotts needs at least half a season in triple A then i think he'll be a force

ondafarm
01-31-2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Onthefarm:

Regarding Dan Wright, personally I have little faith in him because like other Sox pitchers he was rushed to the bigs without a lot of time spent learning his craft in the minors but beyond that I think his problem is mental.

Last year you recall when he hurt his arm he had normal concerns. I can't blame him given the reputation of the Sox 'crack' medical staff, however when his own doctor, James Andrews told him he was fine, I got the impression that he still didn't believe it.

I think that showed in the way he pitched, or more to the point the way he didn't pitch.

Maybe this year will be different but if his mental makeup is still the same then I think you'll get the same results.

Lip

Lip man,
I agree with you 100% here. From my own experience, I know that cooling your jets for a year mostly in the minors and getting blown out when you show your face in the bigs can require an off-season and a new manager to correct. Dan Wright has big league stuff. I sat two rows from the screen at Knights Stadium last year and saw him pitch. I don't think I could have hit him from 20 feet behind the plate. Its a head problem. I just figure he'll get his confidence back and perform.

Just me,

DrCrawdad
01-31-2004, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
Lip man,
I agree with you 100% here. From my own experience, I know that cooling your jets for a year mostly in the minors and getting blown out when you show your face in the bigs can require an off-season and a new manager to correct. Dan Wright has big league stuff. I sat two rows from the screen at Knights Stadium last year and saw him pitch. I don't think I could have hit him from 20 feet behind the plate. Its a head problem. I just figure he'll get his confidence back and perform.

Just me,

Great to hear the positive scouting report on Wright.

akingamongstmen
01-31-2004, 04:45 PM
S.S. is terrible. There's nothing more to it. I'd be much more comfortable with Danny Wright and somebody like Jon Rauch being given a shot in the rotation. I do believe that Dan Wright has the ability to be a fantastic pitcher...providing that he gets his head together. As for Jon Rauch, I say that it's time to give him a shot. He's healthy now, and last year he pitched well enough to warrant a chance. At the very least, the Sox should have a true open competition in Spring Training for the 4th and 5th slots.

jeremyb1
01-31-2004, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Onthefarm:

Regarding Dan Wright, personally I have little faith in him because like other Sox pitchers he was rushed to the bigs without a lot of time spent learning his craft in the minors but beyond that I think his problem is mental.

Last year you recall when he hurt his arm he had normal concerns. I can't blame him given the reputation of the Sox 'crack' medical staff, however when his own doctor, James Andrews told him he was fine, I got the impression that he still didn't believe it.

I think that showed in the way he pitched, or more to the point the way he didn't pitch.

Maybe this year will be different but if his mental makeup is still the same then I think you'll get the same results.

Lip

Hehe. Funny no one ever says that about the Josh Becketts and Dontrelle Willises of the world when they're promoted quickly.

Daver
01-31-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Hehe. Funny no one ever says that about the Josh Becketts and Dontrelle Willises of the world when they're promoted quickly.

For every Josh Beckett there are 50 Scott Ruffcorns.

poorme
01-31-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Daver
For every Josh Beckett there are 50 Scott Ruffcorns.

Very true, but all those Scott Ruffcorns would still suck no matter how much time they spent in the minors.

ondafarm
01-31-2004, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Hehe. Funny no one ever says that about the Josh Becketts and Dontrelle Willises of the world when they're promoted quickly.

You know I saw Dontrelle Willis pitching last year for the Marlins AA team and I thought the guy was too good, too savy and has his stuff together, when are they going to promote him. Then again, the Marlins managers both knew how to keep a young pitcher confidant and just riding the edge of cocky. Willis got shelled in the bigs at least once last year, but his manager got him out of it and ready for the next game. Jerry Manuel couldn't get the Roger Clemens ready for the next game.

Lip Man 1
01-31-2004, 08:16 PM
Jeremy:

Just wondering.....

Why is it that all the Mark Mulder's, Barry Zito's, Roy Oswalt's, Mark Prior's, Dontrelle Willis', Josh Beckett's and their ilk never seem to pitch for the Sox?

Why is that?

Why is it that all the "can't miss kid' pitchers for the Sox either wind up like Jon Rauch and Corwin Malone (injured) or like Jon Garland and Danny Wright (guys who usually lose as many games as they win) or like Aaron Myette and David (?) West (a whole lot of nothing).

Where are all the impact pitchers Jeremy? Where are the twenty game winners Jeremy? Where are the post season award winners?

Perhaps if the Sox had a track record of some success with their pitchers I'd share your optimism but I don't see them. Perhaps my eyes are failing me and you can enlighten me with where they are all hiding.

Lip

joecrede
01-31-2004, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Jeremy:

Just wondering.....

Why is it that all the Mark Mulder's, Barry Zito's, Roy Oswalt's, Mark Prior's, Dontrelle Willis', Josh Beckett's and their ilk never seem to pitch for the Sox?

Why is that?

Lip

Largely because the Sox haven't had a pick in the top 10 of the draft since they chose Alex Fernandez in 1990 (?). The longest such streak without a top 10 pick currently in MLB.

Daver
01-31-2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Largely because the Sox haven't had a pick in the top 10 of the draft since they chose Alex Fernandez in 1990 (?). The longest such streak without a top 10 pick currently in MLB.

That is the price an organization pays when their goal is to merely compete,as opposed to making a real attempt to put together a winner.

Lip Man 1
01-31-2004, 08:50 PM
Joe:

Unfortunately not all of the pitchers that I named were top 10 picks or even first round picks in the draft.

Lip

joecrede
01-31-2004, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe:

Unfortunately not all of the pitchers that I named were top 10 picks or even first round picks in the draft.

Lip

Mulder was the 2nd overall pick in the '98 draft, likewise for Beckett in '99 and Prior in '01. Zito was the 9th overall pick in the '99 draft. Oswalt and Willis were drafted in the lower rounds. Similar to Buehrle.

A. Cavatica
01-31-2004, 09:37 PM
Almost all of the guys you listed were very high, very visible picks. (And Willis may have already had his career year.)

Rauch and Malone were lower picks that exploded onto the minor-league scene, then had injury-related setbacks. It's not fair to ask why Beckett & Prior succeeded while these two didn't.

The Sox have not had a recent "sure thing" draft pick except Borchard. They've had a lot of late-first-round and sandwich-round picks that didn't pan out. Parque had brief success, Ginter's nothing special, Stumm got hurt, Myette, West & Purvis were busts. Wright could still settle down and be OK. (Sorry if one or two of these guys were second-rounders.)

The Sox seem to have done OK with Honel, but he's not there yet. They got decent mileage out of Ring, trading him for Alomar.

Lip Man 1
01-31-2004, 09:38 PM
Which proves my point Joe. Thanks.

Lip

Rex Hudler
01-31-2004, 10:18 PM
I'm thinking some guy named Buehrle would fit here.

Madbilly
02-01-2004, 02:11 PM
I know I am Going to get a lot flack for saying this:

I think Scott Schoeneweis will be a better starter then most give him credit for. In Anaheim they had him in a upper rotation pitching role (1st or 2nd starter). Thats more games then he suited for. To be fair he didn't play on the greatest of Angel teams. Even when the went to the series they needed a big late season push and a lot of luck to get in the playoffs. In 2001, I think, is when the Angels had a huge division lead going into late summer and blew it, largely because they could hit worth a lick during those later months. Put him in the 5th starter role, take some of the pressure off of him. Before he was demoted to the pen in July he was something like 6-6 with a 5 era. Not bad for a fifth starter, a lot better then the pool of players we had in that spot last year. If he develops the cutter that KW talked about he might just be a good addition to the rotation. Let Rauch/Cotts/Wright or any of the other players we have battle it out for the 4th spot. Or, god forbid, we sign a FA pitcher that isn't off the scrap heap.