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jordan23ventura
01-29-2004, 01:23 PM
Simon is still on the fa market and should come relatively cheap. An advantage of signing someone like him would be that if Konerko has a decent 1st half we may be able to unload him to a contender and then use Simon at DH w/ Frank playing first, using the money left over to get another arm or outfielder. Sorry, I'm not about to jump on the Ross Gload bandwagon yet.

npdempse
01-29-2004, 01:29 PM
I dunno. I heard he pounds the sausage.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 01:29 PM
At least Gload swings at pitches in the strike zone. Simon is a good player, but what do you mean a contender. Right now, we're a contender. Geez, at least wait until the season starts before you start talking about white flagging it.

jabrch
01-29-2004, 01:35 PM
Simon swings - but makes contact - at just about everything. I guess if he wants the MLB minimum, that's fine - but I wouldn't give him much more than that.

carusochop
01-29-2004, 01:36 PM
RANDALL SIMON ARE YOU SERIOUS! The guy takes a walk about as often as a leap year occurs. We don't need another first baseman because should anything happen to Konerko, Thomas could always play first. However Randall Simon isn't even the best 1st baseman on the market. Travis Lee and Fred McGriff are both still available. Please, please, please don't put any ideas into KW's head.

kittle42
01-29-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Right now, we're a contender. Geez, at least wait until the season starts before you start talking about white flagging it.

By this logic, the D-Rays are also contenders.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
By this logic, the D-Rays are also contenders.
The D-Rays aren' in the Central, and we have a better team than them. I don't know why people on this forum are set on giving up. That's fine, but I'm not prepared to do that.

Dick Allen
01-29-2004, 01:44 PM
Please, no ex-Cubs.

SoxxoS
01-29-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by carusochop
RANDALL SIMON ARE YOU SERIOUS! The guy takes a walk about as often as a leap year occurs. We don't need another first baseman because should anything happen to Konerko, Thomas could always play first. However Randall Simon isn't even the best 1st baseman on the market. Travis Lee and Fred McGriff are both still available. Please, please, please don't put any ideas into KW's head.

Sorry to be a smartass but this year is a leap year. :)

jordan23ventura
01-29-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
At least Gload swings at pitches in the strike zone. Simon is a good player, but what do you mean a contender. Right now, we're a contender. Geez, at least wait until the season starts before you start talking about white flagging it.


I never said we wouldnt be contending at that point. Most likely we will. Gieven the state of the AL Central I really don't see how it would be possible to fall any lower than 2nd in the standings with the team we have now.

I said trade PK to a contender, because only another contender would be willing to take him at that time. The last thing we need is an average first baseman when we have Frank Thomas. If we were to have a guy like Simon, even though he K's a lot, he is still a proven backup and if he were to move to DH that could allow us to use PK money get a good starter w/out giving up too much in prospects.

I'm not the biggest Simon fan at all, Lee would have to be a starter and Mondesi is out of the question. I look forward to seeing Thomas at first in the playoffs.

mantis1212
01-29-2004, 01:51 PM
Abe Froman, the Sausage King of Chicago! Not a bad DH, if we can drop Konerko!

jordan23ventura
01-29-2004, 01:53 PM
oh yeah, and Fred McGriff just plain sucks. As Mike Tyson would say, it would be "ludicrisp" to even consider him an option.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura
I never said we wouldnt be contending at that point. Most likely we will. Gieven the state of the AL Central I really don't see how it would be possible to fall any lower than 2nd in the standings with the team we have now.

I said trade PK to a contender, because only another contender would be willing to take him at that time. The last thing we need is an average first baseman when we have Frank Thomas. If we were to have a guy like Simon, even though he K's a lot, he is still a proven backup and if he were to move to DH that could allow us to use PK money get a good starter w/out giving up too much in prospects.

I'm not the biggest Simon fan at all, Lee would have to be a starter and Mondesi is out of the question. I look forward to seeing Thomas at first in the playoffs.
I see, I miss interpreted. Sorry. I'd still rather keep Konerko, but if we were presented with a good offer for him, then Simon would be a good pickup for a cheap price. Anything over 2 million (and I'm not sure I would be willing to spend that) then I would go with Frank and Gload platooning.

KingXerxes
01-29-2004, 02:22 PM
I have to be honest, I think Simon would be a great pick-up. First off he's a decent hitter (even though he swings at everything), he bats from the left side (we need that) but probably more important than anything else, the guy is a personality. This team needs some personality, some fan appeal, anything.

And please - if you're going to respond that this team now has personality (due to Ozzie Guillen's hiring) save it - I'm not buying it.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I have to be honest, I think Simon would be a great pick-up. First off he's a decent hitter (even though he swings at everything), he bats from the left side (we need that) but probably more important than anything else, the guy is a personality. This team needs some personality, some fan appeal, anything.

And please - if you're going to respond that this team now has personality (due to Ozzie Guillen's hiring) save it - I'm not buying it.
Whether you're buying it or not, it's true. We have some young guys and some other guys who were hidden under Manuels low tempered, non-aggressive baseball. We'll see a difference in attitude this year, it's just a matter of how much it's going to pay off.

cheeses_h_rice
01-29-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I have to be honest, I think Simon would be a great pick-up. First off he's a decent hitter (even though he swings at everything), he bats from the left side (we need that) but probably more important than anything else, the guy is a personality. This team needs some personality, some fan appeal, anything.

And please - if you're going to respond that this team now has personality (due to Ozzie Guillen's hiring) save it - I'm not buying it.

He had a fluke year last year with the Flubs.

Sorry, the guy's a tubby beer-league softball player at best. I'll pass.

KingXerxes
01-29-2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Whether you're buying it or not, it's true. We have some young guys and some other guys who were hidden under Manuels low tempered, non-aggressive baseball. We'll see a difference in attitude this year, it's just a matter of how much it's going to pay off.

Okay - I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I predict that Ozzie Guillen, as manager of this team, is going to be an unmitigated disaster. If there is one thing the White Sox organization does best - it's manage by committee. Nobody is ever to blame for anything (other than a hitting coach every now and then). I see Guillen being way overmatched by the job, and I see that manifesting itself early in the year. Then I see a plethora of "wanna be's" flying into his face to help him out (Williams, Harrelson, Farmer etc. etc.) each tryingto establish themselves as the "real deal". In the mean-time, the organizational infighting and backstabbing will begin in earnest to see who can best position themselves to pick up whatever scraps are available at JR's feet.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Okay - I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I predict that Ozzie Guillen, as manager of this team, is going to be an unmitigated disaster. If there is one thing the White Sox organization does best - it's manage by committee. Nobody is ever to blame for anything (other than a hitting coach every now and then). I see Guillen being way overmatched by the job, and I see that manifesting itself early in the year. Then I see a plethora of "wanna be's" flying into his face to help him out (Williams, Harrelson, Farmer etc. etc.) each tryingto establish themselves as the "real deal". In the mean-time, the organizational infighting and backstabbing will begin in earnest to see who can best position themselves to pick up whatever scraps are available at JR's feet.
I obviously disagree, but I don't believe you take into consideration that all of the staff except Bruce Kim will be returning. The staff is very good and have accepted Guillen coming to the team. They will help his transition as well as calls on certain issues. They'll be fine.

KingXerxes
01-29-2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I obviously disagree, but I don't believe you take into consideration that all of the staff except Bruce Kim will be returning. The staff is very good and have accepted Guillen coming to the team. They will help his transition as well as calls on certain issues. They'll be fine.

This being the very same staff who worked for the much villified Jerry Manuel right?

Disaster looms - trust me on this one.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
This being the very same staff who worked for the much villified Jerry Manuel right?

Disaster looms - trust me on this one.

Manuel was his own man and set the tone as a non-agressor. The staff inspite of him are very knowledgable and know the personnel well. I can't trust you on this one, my gut tells me it was a good move.

KingXerxes
01-29-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Manuel was his own man and set the tone as a non-agressor. The staff inspite of him are very knowledgable and know the personnel well. I can't trust you on this one, my gut tells me it was a good move.

Then it's a gentlemen's bet - assuming you are a gentleman.

Here is some of my reasoning:

Dealing with the media in this city is an incredibly under-rated aspect of managing the White Sox. Manuel - while uninspiring - was not a buffoon, and got along pretty well. When the Cubs went out and hired Baker, they raised the bar pretty high because he's a master with dealing with the press. What do the White Sox go and do? They hire a somewhat clownish, somewhat hyperactive old shortstop who the media is going to lay waste to if they ever get the chance. It won't matter all that much anyway, because everybody will soon be asking themselves "Who is running this show anyway?" Why did upper management feel the need to retain all the old coaches? Shouldn't that be the manager's call? If it's not the manager's call, then it somebody else's - but whose? Williams? Reinsdorf? They basically undermined Guillen (unintentionally) from the absolute beginning by not allowing him to put together his own crew. These types of things get noticed by the media and the players. The minute somebody has a problem with Guillen, they're going to bypass him (thereby undermining him further) and go to whomever they think is running the show. It's always been this type of problem since Reinsdorf bought the club. Now it's just more apparent.

Guillen was hired more as some sort of marketing maneuver than he was to manage this club. It's weird, but it fits.

TheRockinMT
01-29-2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
The D-Rays aren' in the Central, and we have a better team than them. I don't know why people on this forum are set on giving up. That's fine, but I'm not prepared to do that.

I couldn't agree more with you SEAL! The Sox ARE contenders and my thought is if Konerko is having a good 1st half why would we want to unload him? Konerko is a good 1Bman and very good hitter. You trade to better yourself and not just dump players. We don't need Simon mostly becasue there is just no need.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Then it's a gentlemen's bet - assuming you are a gentleman.

Here is some of my reasoning:

Dealing with the media in this city is an incredibly under-rated aspect of managing the White Sox. Manuel - while uninspiring - was not a buffoon, and got along pretty well. When the Cubs went out and hired Baker, they raised the bar pretty high because he's a master with dealing with the press. What do the White Sox go and do? They hire a somewhat clownish, somewhat hyperactive old shortstop who the media is going to lay waste to if they ever get the chance. It won't matter all that much anyway, because everybody will soon be asking themselves "Who is running this show anyway?" Why did upper management feel the need to retain all the old coaches? Shouldn't that be the manager's call? If it's not the manager's call, then it somebody else's - but whose? Williams? Reinsdorf? They basically undermined Guillen (unintentionally) from the absolute beginning by not allowing him to put together his own crew. These types of things get noticed by the media and the players. The minute somebody has a problem with Guillen, they're going to bypass him (thereby undermining him further) and go to whomever they think is running the show. It's always been this type of problem since Reinsdorf bought the club. Now it's just more apparent.

Guillen was hired more as some sort of marketing maneuver than he was to manage this club. It's weird, but it fits.

I think you underestimate Guillen's intelligence, and his ability to get along with people. The staff was retained because they're good, and aren't to blame for the shortcomings. Also he is a rookie manager, and by retaining the staff it will ease his transition. As far as the media, I actually think they'll like him, but I really don't care if they don't. He's a no nonsense guy with a strong desire to win. That's what I want, and I think it's what the players need. A guy like him with a very knowledgable staff who are quite good at what they do will be a good combination. I'm sorry we disagree, and maybe I'm just too gung ho White Sox, but I think it's a good move, and was hoping it would happen before it was announced. We have underachieved for some time now, which is disappointing, but I feel it's unfair to put it on Guillen's shoulders. At least give him a chance to fail before we run him out of town.

DrCrawdad
01-29-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Dick Allen
Please, no ex-Cubs.

The guy the Sox are looking to for a left-handed bat off the bench for this season is Ross Gload. Gload is an ex-Cub.

mdep524
01-29-2004, 04:06 PM
My opinion is that things will end up somewhere in between the extreme opinions of Xerxes and SEAL, but closer to SEAL. I agree with Xerxes that marketing (as well as, to some extent, cheapness) were a factor in Ozzie's hiring. But that should not be held against him. He's still a charistmatic, energetic, passionate baseball guy...none of which could have been said for the classy yet sadly inept Jerry Manuel. White Sox baseball, by nature of being second fiddle to the Scrubs among other reasons, is scrappy by nature. It's Luke Appling and Nellie Fox and Luis Aparicio. What I like about Ozzie is I think he better represents and stresses these things, even if he was the "marketing-friendly" and cheaper hire. He might make a few game situation mistakes but no coach knows this team inside out and backwards better than Joe Nossek, and he'll be sitting right next to Ozzie in the dugout for every pitch.

Above all else though, you have to give the guy a chance before you write his pink slip. I know you are just expressing your opinion, but its so strong it's as if you are rooting for him to fail. I really hope he reinvigorates this franchise, and I think he has a chance to do that. We'll see in a few months.

Twin Killing
01-29-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
At least Gload swings at pitches in the strike zone. Simon is a good player, but what do you mean a contender. Right now, we're a contender. Geez, at least wait until the season starts before you start talking about white flagging it.

Contender for what? To win the AL Central? Big ****ing deal. The current Sox team is not a contender for anything more than that. If that satisfies you, then so be it. I think many here would like to see the Sox aim a little higher.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Twin Killing
Contender for what? To win the AL Central? Big ****ing deal. The current Sox team is not a contender for anything more than that. If that satisfies you, then so be it. I think many here would like to see the Sox aim a little higher.
You said the Central not me, I can't help what you assumed. Besides, the Marlins proved anything is possible. If that doesn't satifisfy, I'm sure we'd all be happy if you donated 50 million to the payroll. I'll even care what you say if you did. You have to win the Central first, take it in stride. Thinking World Series before the playoffs is just premature.

Dick Allen
01-29-2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
The guy the Sox are looking to for a left-handed bat off the bench for this season is Ross Gload. Gload is an ex-Cub. Well, that's it, cut his sorry butt.

SEALgep
01-29-2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Dick Allen
Well, that's it, cut his sorry butt.

Lol, his fate was sealed when he entered into their organiztion.

. Ross Gload, 27 - 1st/OF Ė L/L - Hermosillo
Stats: .328 AVG, .388 OBP, 12 HR, 51 RBI, 28 K, 23 BB
Last season Gload put up monster numbers for the Charlotte Knights. Despite those tremendous numbers, Gload has yet to shake his AAAA reputation heís received after hitting the cover off for the Cubs minor league system as well as the Rockies. During his short stints in the majors, Gload, has struggled mightily. This time things may be different. Gload has a sweet, short, compact swing and can hit for average and power. In my opinion, size (height) is the only thing thatís kept him from getting consistent playing time at the major league level. This spring he will be given the chance to earn a position on the White Sox bench.

He looks like he's developing nicely. The ex-Cub factor may work out to our advantage. Lee-Eckersley-Palmeiro-Gload? I like it, lets go with it, lol. I do believe he would platoon well with Frank if Paulie was traded.

Twin Killing
01-29-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
You said the Central not me, I can't help what you assumed. Besides, the Marlins proved anything is possible. If that doesn't satifisfy, I'm sure we'd all be happy if you donated 50 million to the payroll. I'll even care what you say if you did. You have to win the Central first, take it in stride. Thinking World Series before the playoffs is just premature.

I'm hardly thinking World Series. I'm not satisfied with building a team that is a "contender" in the worst division in baseball and waiting for "anything to happen". Unfortunately as Sox fans, that's what we are reduced to. I've been waiting for "anything to happen" for about 35 years. I'm certainly not happy or optimistic about it. That thinking belongs up north.

jabrch
01-29-2004, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
He had a fluke year last year with the Flubs.

Sorry, the guy's a tubby beer-league softball player at best. I'll pass.


Hey Cheeses, now that Otis is gone, you got anything new for us? :-)

And don't go knocking us tubby beer-league softball players!

depy48
01-29-2004, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by mdep524
My opinion is that things will end up somewhere in between the extreme opinions of Xerxes and SEAL, but closer to SEAL. I agree with Xerxes that marketing (as well as, to some extent, cheapness) were a factor in Ozzie's hiring. But that should not be held against him. He's still a charistmatic, energetic, passionate baseball guy...none of which could have been said for the classy yet sadly inept Jerry Manuel. White Sox baseball, by nature of being second fiddle to the Scrubs among other reasons, is scrappy by nature. It's Luke Appling and Nellie Fox and Luis Aparicio. What I like about Ozzie is I think he better represents and stresses these things, even if he was the "marketing-friendly" and cheaper hire. He might make a few game situation mistakes but no coach knows this team inside out and backwards better than Joe Nossek, and he'll be sitting right next to Ozzie in the dugout for every pitch.

Above all else though, you have to give the guy a chance before you write his pink slip. I know you are just expressing your opinion, but its so strong it's as if you are rooting for him to fail. I really hope he reinvigorates this franchise, and I think he has a chance to do that. We'll see in a few months.

right, you never know what kind of tricks ozzie has up his sleeve. after all, he has more world series rings then any current whitesox starter...

dickallen15
01-29-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by depy48
right, you never know what kind of tricks ozzie has up his sleeve. after all, he has more world series rings then any current whitesox starter...

Ozzie's WS ring is meaningless, and brings to mind a story. Jerry Krause tried to pawn off Will Perdue on Sacramento many years ago. He told the Sac. GM Purdue had 3 championship rings. Sac;s GM told Krause, " so does your trainer"

SEALgep
01-30-2004, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Ozzie's WS ring is meaningless, and brings to mind a story. Jerry Krause tried to pawn off Will Perdue on Sacramento many years ago. He told the Sac. GM Purdue had 3 championship rings. Sac;s GM told Krause, " so does your trainer"
Ozzie's role wasn't meaningless, that's a little extreme. Guillen has a good understanding of the game, and is hardly Jerry Krause. Mckeon has said Ozzie's ready for this, and Ozzie has studied under some of the best managers in the game. He'll be fine and also show his value.

KingXerxes
01-30-2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Ozzie's role wasn't meaningless, that's a little extreme. Guillen has a good understanding of the game, and is hardly Jerry Krause. Mckeon has said Ozzie's ready for this, and Ozzie has studied under some of the best managers in the game. He'll be fine and also show his value.

As far as his "good understanding of the game goes", most fans have a good understanding of the game. That is a necessary element for anybody involved in the game. What you need is a guy who not only has a good understanding of the game, but the ability to command the respect of his players and coaches, handle the media, and - especially important in the case of the White Sox - handle the front office bullcrap. When the pressure is on you've got to be sure that your manager doesn't suffer from braincramps (see - Terry Bevington), and has the ability to balance the short-term tactical nature of the game (pinch hitter for a guy in the 8th) with the long-term strategy of keeping guys motivated (soothing the ego of the guy you just pinch hit for). For all of this we look to the only player I have ever known to have fallen for the hidden ball trick - twice.

As far as Jack McKeon saying that Ozzie is ready for this, all I have to say is "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". I don't think I've ever heard - in a public medium - any coach state that he thought somebody else would be anything less than perfect for a position. For all we know, McKeon could be doing this to open up a position for somebody who's a friend of his - and is glad to see Guillen leave.

I realize that none of the above proves anything, and the season is a long way from even starting - but this move smacks of the same sort of PR/Front Office Lapdog dynamics as were involved in the hiring of Ken Harrelson as General Manager. The organization eroded into an absolute circus - and I don't want to see that again.

Mickster
01-30-2004, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
For all of this we look to the only player I have ever known to have fallen for the hidden ball trick - twice.


LMAO!

SEALgep
01-30-2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
As far as his "good understanding of the game goes", most fans have a good understanding of the game. That is a necessary element for anybody involved in the game. What you need is a guy who not only has a good understanding of the game, but the ability to command the respect of his players and coaches, handle the media, and - especially important in the case of the White Sox - handle the front office bullcrap. When the pressure is on you've got to be sure that your manager doesn't suffer from braincramps (see - Terry Bevington), and has the ability to balance the short-term tactical nature of the game (pinch hitter for a guy in the 8th) with the long-term strategy of keeping guys motivated (soothing the ego of the guy you just pinch hit for). For all of this we look to the only player I have ever known to have fallen for the hidden ball trick - twice.

As far as Jack McKeon saying that Ozzie is ready for this, all I have to say is "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts". I don't think I've ever heard - in a public medium - any coach state that he thought somebody else would be anything less than perfect for a position. For all we know, McKeon could be doing this to open up a position for somebody who's a friend of his - and is glad to see Guillen leave.

I realize that none of the above proves anything, and the season is a long way from even starting - but this move smacks of the same sort of PR/Front Office Lapdog dynamics as were involved in the hiring of Ken Harrelson as General Manager. The organization eroded into an absolute circus - and I don't want to see that again.

I think you're getting yourself worried over nothing. McKeon isn't secretly clashing with Ozzie, they're friends. I understand your concern, but this is somewhat of a conspiracy theory that the Sox got completely dooped on. I don't buy it, and I think Guillen will command respect and andle the media. I have heard good things about Guillen from the media, which wouldn't change my opinion of Ozzie even if they didn't. He's going to be a good manager and lead this club in the right direction. Hopefully it goes well, but I think you're a little too worried. Maybe I'm wrong, but let him prove he can't do it first. I think he'll surprise you.

KingXerxes
01-30-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I think you're getting yourself worried over nothing. McKeon isn't secretly clashing with Ozzie, they're friends. I understand your concern, but this is somewhat of a conspiracy theory that the Sox got completely dooped on. I don't buy it, and I think Guillen will command respect and andle the media. I have heard good things about Guillen from the media, which wouldn't change my opinion of Ozzie even if they didn't. He's going to be a good manager and lead this club in the right direction. Hopefully it goes well, but I think you're a little too worried. Maybe I'm wrong, but let him prove he can't do it first. I think he'll surprise you.

I don't think the White Sox got duped at all. I think they knowingly walked in and created the situation as it now exists. That's the problem. They've done this before.

Reinsdorf has an unbelievable blind spot when it comes to the fan base of the White Sox. When he traded Harold Baines to Texas, he went out and retired his number. I'll never forget how stupid I (along with most of my friends) thought it was to have retired #3 - given that the guy was good, but in no way warranted having his number retired, and went on to play another 12 years or so anyway - even after having his number retired. It was stupid because he totally mis-read fan sentiment.

Then he chases Roland Hemond out of town in order to put Ken Harrelson in his place. Why? Because he thinks Harrelson is some sort of beloved figure in the organization. He even puts Harrelson's picture on the front of the schedule - making him the centerpiece of the marketing, and all of this is just a year of so after winning the Western division by 20 games! Total miscalculation again.

Stephan, dog days, sleep over nights and on and on and on. They simply do not have their finger on the pulse of their fandom. So for the past couple of years, criticism has been growing and growing over the manager (justifiably I might add) - so what is their reaction? It's something to the effect of "Okay, we'll bring back and old fan favorite and give him the job - because that's what Sox fans want." Hell now that I think about it, they actually brought back the guy they had doing those commercials ten years ago. White Sox fans don't necessarily want an old-time White Sox player back as manager, they want a good manager. When Williams announced (at Manuel's firing) that all coaches with the exception of Kimm were being retained, it became painfully obvious to me that we were headed toward hiring a lap dog. And if it was going to be a lap dog - they should try to squeeze some marketing out of it by making the person a "personality".

I see no other qualifications - other than the predictable platitudes from other members of the club - to lead me to believe that Ozzie Guillen is anywhere near ready (or if he will ever be ready) to be a manager. His first press conference almost convinced me that I was right.

I really and truly hope I'm wrong SEALgep. I hope Ozzie Guillen turns into the next John McGraw, but I really have my doubts.

davenicholson
01-30-2004, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by mantis1212
Abe Froman, the Sausage King of Chicago! Not a bad DH, if we can drop Konerko!
Nice one, Mantis! :smile: Save Ferris!

PaulDrake
01-30-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I have to be honest, I think Simon would be a great pick-up. First off he's a decent hitter (even though he swings at everything), he bats from the left side (we need that) but probably more important than anything else, the guy is a personality. This team needs some personality, some fan appeal, anything.

And please - if you're going to respond that this team now has personality (due to Ozzie Guillen's hiring) save it - I'm not buying it. Once again I am on the same page with you and you beat me to it. Agree completely.

KingXerxes
01-30-2004, 11:19 AM
Glad to hear it Paul. We still need to get SEALgep on board though.

Hangar18
01-30-2004, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Hey Cheeses, now that Otis is gone, you got anything new for us? :-)

And don't go knocking us tubby beer-league softball players!

Otis Isnt gone, hes just not going to post "insider-info" anymore.
for the record, every single thing he mentioned probably was very true, but as always, things can change min by minute

Hangar18
01-30-2004, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I don't think the White Sox got duped at all. I think they knowingly walked in and created the situation as it now exists. That's the problem. They've done this before.

Reinsdorf has an unbelievable blind spot when it comes to the fan base of the White Sox.

Stephan, dog days, sleep over nights and on and on and on. And if it was going to be a lap dog - they should try to squeeze some marketing out of it by making the person a "personality".



Some of their ploys worked hugely. the Stephan thing was Terrible. Terrible on Paper too, what a dumb idea.
Dog Day and Sleepover nites, are GREAT IDEAS, look how many Teams COPIED them since then with their own DogDay &
SLeepover nites. They need more out of the box ideas, and an Owner that doesnt Ruin the best plans. They need to Market their Players WAY BETTER. Having OZZIE at the Board Of Trade was Excellent......get the name Out there. MORE OF THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. Esteban Loiaza, Frank, Maggs, CLee should be Marketed more ..............

KingXerxes
01-30-2004, 02:41 PM
Hangar18 - I totally agree that the White Sox need to be marketed more, but I'll be the first one to tell you that when they market the team (or one of its players) it too often comes across as stupid and contrived. One also gets the feeling while watching these guys operate, that they try way too hard to push aspects of the White Sox that have nothing at all to do with baseball. It's like they don't know what sells tickets.

What sells tickets - pure and simple - is the ability to convince people that it is far better to be at the game in person than to be watching it on television. Atmosphere, intangibles etc. Not the variety of food, or being able to run the bases - but the game itself. They have never understood this, and I suspect they never will.

As far as other teams copying their lead in terms of Dog Days etc. I don't think that means too much in and of itself - lemmings run amok in today's world.