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SEALgep
01-27-2004, 09:05 PM
Jose Lima of the Royals last season signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers.

Also signing a minor league deal was Jose Hernandez. Did they beat the Yankees to the punch in order to strike a deal?

Or was it to replace Alex Cora temporarily who will be out 4-6 weeks due to a broken arm received today in winter ball.

carusochop
01-27-2004, 09:10 PM
Wow, if both of those guys we're going to sign minor league deals we should have taken a flyer on them. At one time Hernandez could play 3 IF positions and CF, since Uribe can't hit his way ouit of a paper bag we could have used that.

Also, for as much pitching as we need, giving a shot to Lima wouldn't have hurt. I wonder why both these guys pick the Dodgers since it wouldn't appear Hernandez will start nor will Lima be in the rotation.

SEALgep
01-27-2004, 09:17 PM
I think they were the only ones offering. Hernandez strikes out a lot and no one really had a need, except maybe the Yankees now. I think we're better off with Uribe as our utility guy than Hernandez. However, I did wonder weeks ago why we weren't offering Lima a minor league deal. He's kicking himself for not resigning with the Royals who had offered him a contract of some sort. I hated him on the Royals, but he was 8-3 with them. Well at least they don't have him, not that he's going to be spectacular. He had one other real good season before last year, but otherwise has been pretty worthless. He is expected to be the 7th or 8th option to start for the Dodgers. Translation- he'll stay in the minors unless a bunch of injuries are sustained.

LATruBlue
01-28-2004, 04:22 AM
I was a little suprised to see that we had picked him up also. He's a reclamation project no doubt but hey, you never know. Given the Dodgers history for fixing the mechanics of some pitchers, he may just be a good bull replacement for Paul Quantrill who opted for the Yanquis. I am a little suprised though that KW didn't sign him to a minor league contract. He could have been that solid number 4 or 5 pitcher for you guys.

Lima, 31, was 8-3 in 14 starts for the Kansas City Royals last season, winning his first seven decisions and earning AL pitcher of the month honors for July when he was 5-0 with a 1.44 ERA in five starts.

The right-hander began the season pitching for the independent Newark Bears, where he was 6-1 with a 2.33 ERA. He signed a minor league contract with the Royals on June 11.

Lima has a 71-77 record with a 5.13 ERA while pitching in 276 games for Detroit, Houston and Kansas City. His best year was in 1999 when he went 21-10 for the Astros.

Now Jose Hernandez from what I understand is a strike out machine. I can't see any use for him given his track record.

SEALgep
01-28-2004, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
I was a little suprised to see that we had picked him up also. He's a reclamation project no doubt but hey, you never know. Given the Dodgers history for fixing the mechanics of some pitchers, he may just be a good bull replacement for Paul Quantrill who opted for the Yanquis. I am a little suprised though that KW didn't sign him to a minor league contract. He could have been that solid number 4 or 5 pitcher for you guys.

Lima, 31, was 8-3 in 14 starts for the Kansas City Royals last season, winning his first seven decisions and earning AL pitcher of the month honors for July when he was 5-0 with a 1.44 ERA in five starts.

The right-hander began the season pitching for the independent Newark Bears, where he was 6-1 with a 2.33 ERA. He signed a minor league contract with the Royals on June 11.

Lima has a 71-77 record with a 5.13 ERA while pitching in 276 games for Detroit, Houston and Kansas City. His best year was in 1999 when he went 21-10 for the Astros.

Now Jose Hernandez from what I understand is a strike out machine. I can't see any use for him given his track record.

Lima definitely had a good season last year, but has struggled a lot before, exception 1999. However, KW usually likes pitcher projects that had once shown brilliance. We don't know though, maybe he did offer him something and he didn't take it. Not really a concern though.

Hernandez, I believe was picked up in order to deal with the Yankees. I could be wrong, but that wouldn't be out of the question. It's little risk with a minor league contract, and even if they keep him, he's not a bad backup utility man. Don't get overly excited, but it certainly wasn't a bad gamble for the type of contract signed. It might prove necessary temporarily with Coras situation.

longshot7
01-28-2004, 10:48 AM
well, it's clear why you love Dan Evans - he makes the best moves EVER!!

LATruBlue
01-28-2004, 12:06 PM
well, it's clear why you love Dan Evans - he makes the best moves EVER!!

Do I like the job that Dan Evans has done so far? I do.

He's helped transform the Dodger pitching staff to number one in the majors last season.

He's helped to secure the number one relief corp in the majors last season.

He took a minor league system left in shambles by Kevin Malone and got the right people in there to draft kids who are now some of the most coveted pitchers in the majors.

Could he foresee that the heart of the batting order, Fred McGriff and Brian Jordan would be hurt virtually all season last year? Of course not, but it is quite apparent that you won't give him credit for the things he has done while blaming him for the things he has no control over.

LATruBlue
01-28-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Lima definitely had a good season last year, but has struggled a lot before, exception 1999. However, KW usually likes pitcher projects that had once shown brilliance. We don't know though, maybe he did offer him something and he didn't take it. Not really a concern though.

Hernandez, I believe was picked up in order to deal with the Yankees. I could be wrong, but that wouldn't be out of the question. It's little risk with a minor league contract, and even if they keep him, he's not a bad backup utility man. Don't get overly excited, but it certainly wasn't a bad gamble for the type of contract signed. It might prove necessary temporarily with Coras situation.

I agree completely.

longshot7
01-28-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Do I like the job that Dan Evans has done so far? I do.

He's helped transform the Dodger pitching staff to number one in the majors last season.

He's helped to secure the number one relief corp in the majors last season.

He took a minor league system left in shambles by Kevin Malone and got the right people in there to draft kids who are now some of the most coveted pitchers in the majors.

Could he foresee that the heart of the batting order, Fred McGriff and Brian Jordan would be hurt virtually all season last year? Of course not, but it is quite apparent that you won't give him credit for the things he has done while blaming him for the things he has no control over.

how far into the playoffs did their vaunted pitching staff take them?

How about a minor league system left in shambles by Fred Claire? To give Evans credit for Miller and Jackson is like giving George Bush credit for the Berlin Wall falling. As yet, these are the only names of note to emerge from the minor league since the Dodgers streak of r.o.y.'s - but Malone had a good plan and had started to implement it. the brass didn't leave him in long enough for it to bear more fruit, or maybe we would've seen some results by now.

Malone made mistakes - what gm doesn't - the carlos perez signing is one. but dan evans is far worse. remember this, Malone didn't trade away Gary Sheffield.

LATruBlue
01-28-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
how far into the playoffs did their vaunted pitching staff take them?

How about a minor league system left in shambles by Fred Claire? To give Evans credit for Miller and Jackson is like giving George Bush credit for the Berlin Wall falling. As yet, these are the only names of note to emerge from the minor league since the Dodgers streak of r.o.y.'s - but Malone had a good plan and had started to implement it. the brass didn't leave him in long enough for it to bear more fruit, or maybe we would've seen some results by now.

Malone made mistakes - what gm doesn't - the carlos perez signing is one. but dan evans is far worse. remember this, Malone didn't trade away Gary Sheffield.

They're showing improvement. And considering they were last in batting, their pitching staff did pretty da.mn well.

Malone was bankrupting the Dodgers. $105 million for KB and $55 million for Dreifort. But hey, as long as it's not your money, you're free to spend it as freely as you think the team needs to. One word: Albatross.

And you're right, Malone didn't rade away Sheffield, Fox and Peter Chernin did.

SEALgep
01-28-2004, 02:13 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LATruBlue
[B]They're showing improvement. And considering they were last in batting, their pitching staff did pretty da.mn well.

The problem is that any team can focus on one side of the ball. It's being versatile that wins. You can argue that all you need is hitting to be good, but in order to get the hitting you need, you have to sacrifice some of your pitching. You made it clear that wasn't an option, which is fine. However, you will be the same offensively with slight improvement, but you also lost a little pitching slight decline.

longshot7
01-28-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
They're showing improvement. And considering they were last in batting, their pitching staff did pretty da.mn well.

Malone was bankrupting the Dodgers. $105 million for KB and $55 million for Dreifort. But hey, as long as it's not your money, you're free to spend it as freely as you think the team needs to. One word: Albatross.

And you're right, Malone didn't rade away Sheffield, Fox and Peter Chernin did.

Well, I can't argue against the Dreifort signing, but at least Malone was trying. Evans hasn't spent hardly any money on free agents, wisely or unwisely. There were several hitters that he could have gone after last offseason. When McGriff & Hundley are your major acquistions, you're in trouble - especially with their payroll. And he hasn't made many smart trades - at least KW made the Colon deal last offseason - Evans failed to get Brian Giles or Richie Sexson this past year - who was easily accessible.

And at least Malone stood up to Fox when they wanted to trade Sheff - Evans didn't and now he's paying the price. Even with McBankrupt coming in, the sooner Evans goes, the better off they'll be.

Because of this gross mismanagement and idiocy, I've changed my SoCal baseball allegiance - I now wear Red.

LATruBlue
01-28-2004, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
Well, I can't argue against the Dreifort signing, but at least Malone was trying. Evans hasn't spent hardly any money on free agents, wisely or unwisely. There were several hitters that he could have gone after last offseason. When McGriff & Hundley are your major acquistions, you're in trouble - especially with their payroll. And he hasn't made many smart trades - at least KW made the Colon deal last offseason - Evans failed to get Brian Giles or Richie Sexson this past year - who was easily accessible.

And at least Malone stood up to Fox when they wanted to trade Sheff - Evans didn't and now he's paying the price. Even with McBankrupt coming in, the sooner Evans goes, the better off they'll be.

Because of this gross mismanagement and idiocy, I've changed my SoCal baseball allegiance - I now wear Red.

Evidently, you haven't heard that to get a Sexson or a Giles the other gm's want those "coveted" pitchers. We're not trading them but some how that point just seems to escape you. You should know that by now given how KW wants them also.

And given you're last sentence you were never a real Dodger fan anyways.

I've made all the points that I planned on making in regards to Dan Evans.

You can have the last word and KW too.

SEALgep
01-28-2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Evidently, you haven't heard that to get a Sexson or a Giles the other gm's want those "coveted" pitchers. We're not trading them but some how that point just seems to escape you. You should know that by now given how KW wants them also.

And given you're last sentence you were never a real Dodger fan anyways.

I've made all the points that I planned on making in regards to Dan Evans.

You can have the last word and KW too.

The guy you're quoting pledged his loyalty to the Angels not Sox, but whatever. It's fine to covet these guys. They probably will be very good players. Your taking a big risk though. You seal your fate for this year and maybe the coming years. No offense will doom your chances. Those pitchers better become all you think they will and stay injury free. If not, the gamble won't pay off, and still might not anyway. You can't discount the value of winning now, by saying we'll just wait until these guys come along won't necessarily mean you'll have the rest of the pitching staff backing them up. Especially if your new owner cuts payroll. You have a team that if it traded for the bats it could win now, and waiting may eliminate your chances for a while, even if these kids are all they seem. Maybe it will work out, but it looks bleak, for the future as well.

jabrch
01-28-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
Well, I can't argue against the Dreifort signing, but at least Malone was trying. Evans hasn't spent hardly any money on free agents, wisely or unwisely. There were several hitters that he could have gone after last offseason. When McGriff & Hundley are your major acquistions, you're in trouble - especially with their payroll. And he hasn't made many smart trades - at least KW made the Colon deal last offseason - Evans failed to get Brian Giles or Richie Sexson this past year - who was easily accessible.

And at least Malone stood up to Fox when they wanted to trade Sheff - Evans didn't and now he's paying the price. Even with McBankrupt coming in, the sooner Evans goes, the better off they'll be.

Because of this gross mismanagement and idiocy, I've changed my SoCal baseball allegiance - I now wear Red.


He has no money to spend.

LATruBlue
01-28-2004, 05:08 PM
The guy you're quoting pledged his loyalty to the Angels not Sox, but whatever.

I know.

It's fine to covet these guys. They probably will be very good players. Your taking a big risk though.

I don't think we are taking a big risk. I think we are taking a small risk given that there is a general consensus on the future outlook of the prospects in question. A big risk to me is trading one of these prospects for the opportunity to get a slugger for a one year rental without any assurety that he will sign with you.

Read what John Sickels, ESPN.com's Minor League Analyst and author of The 2004 Baseball Prospect Book

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/downonthefarm/1598459.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1609981

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=1716467

You seal your fate for this year and maybe the coming years. No offense will doom your chances.

No offense definitely makes our chance more difficult, without question. I wouldn't say that our future is sealed. There is always free agency next year (Maggs, Beltran, Sexson, etc) along with the advent of a minor league power hitter making his debut. So, to say that our fate is doomed is a little extreme.

Those pitchers better become all you think they will and stay injury free. If not, the gamble won't pay off, and still might not anyway.

Well, yes, injuries do play a part and anything is a possibility. The same could be said for Maggs. He could get injured or he may not hit as well in Dodger Stadium. Nothing is certain.

You can't discount the value of winning now, by saying we'll just wait until these guys come along won't necessarily mean you'll have the rest of the pitching staff backing them up. Especially if your new owner cuts payroll.

Winning now to jeopardize the future? How many times have we seen that? If that were the case then all KW had to do was sign Petitte or Maddux or Ponson or kept Colon to complete the pitching staff in order for the Sox to win now. Plus he's not exactly dangling Jeremy Reed in order to lure pitching either. There is no guarantee that we could win now by adding a big bat. If our new owner trims payroll, we won't be able to afford a big bat anyway. Then all we'll have are the kids.

You have a team that if it traded for the bats it could win now, and waiting may eliminate your chances for a while, even if these kids are all they seem. Maybe it will work out, but it looks bleak, for the future as well.

Au contraire, actually, the future looks good. If our new owner can afford it then we'll keep our young arms and get a big bat or two. Maximize synergy.

pearso66
01-28-2004, 05:40 PM
Hopefully for the Dodgers sake, those guys pan out to be the pitchers they are expected to be. If I remember correctly, Jon Rauch was one of the top 5 prospects in all of baseball, An injury later, and he hasn't done anything yet. If they are racking all their money up into their pitching to have the best staff, wouldn't it make sense to spend a little more and go get a hitter? If you have to give up a top prospect ot get a top player, why not? The goal is to win, if a big bat will help you win now, then you do it. I understand not wanting to sell the farm for a rental player, but they could do a sign and trade or something along those lines, and if you trade only 1 of Miller or Jackson, you still have 1 left.

As for trading Reed, If we were to get a top notch player, a top 10 player for him, and it would increase our chances of winning, not this year since we have quite a few question marks and not just 1 or 2, but if we had 1 or 2 question marks only, and were able to fill that with a top player, adn had to give up reed? I'd do it. Just like the Dodgers have a lot of pitching in their system, they always seem to have alot of decent pitching, the Sox have a lot of OF talent in the minors. I want to win now, not bank on a prospect 3-4 years down the line.

LATruBlue
01-28-2004, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
I understand not wanting to sell the farm for a rental player, but they could do a sign and trade or something along those lines, and if you trade only 1 of Miller or Jackson, you still have 1 left.

That would seem like a reasonable proposition. So you understand why we're not dealing with KW. After all, he wants...well, you know what he wants from us.

Oh, btw, we apparently were on the verge of signing Vlad then our new owner (yes, McCourt now owns the Dodgers, an official press conference from Dodger Stadium at 4:00 pm Central Time is forthcoming) pulled the plug on his signing by Dan Evans.

I have to admit that this looks very bad for Dodger fans. I suspect that we won't be able to afford anyone now. MLB just handcuffed the dodgers for the next two to three years. Why two to three, that's when we fans expect McCourt to file bankruptcy.

longshot7
01-29-2004, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by LATruBlue
Evidently, you haven't heard that to get a Sexson or a Giles the other gm's want those "coveted" pitchers. We're not trading them but some how that point just seems to escape you. You should know that by now given how KW wants them also.

Why not trade one of the prospects for a hitter? One good hitter was all the Blue needed. Of course, if someone hadn't traded Sheff, they would've been in the playoffs anyway.


And given you're last sentence you were never a real Dodger fan anyways.

I was a season ticket holder. Does that count?


I've made all the points that I planned on making in regards to Dan Evans.

Okay, we'll agree to disagree, but ponder this - Evans was the sole reason they didn't make it to the postseason last year. If Dave Wallace or Malone had stayed, don't you think they would've made some moves for offense? Oh, I'm sorry - McGriff and Burnitz were roundly applauded at the time. Open your eyes, dude. McCourt may be broke, but he's gonna can Danny as soon as he can. Watch.

You can have the last word and KW too.

Thanks. I'll take him any day over the midget.

longshot7
01-29-2004, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
He has no money to spend.

Uh, yeah. Fox is broke.