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SEALgep
01-25-2004, 11:58 PM
I think Rowand will do a fine job. I think defensively, he is a very good, especially since he was originally a corner fielder. I think he will pick up his offense, especially showing he's capable by batting .387 after his final stinit in the minors in July. Not that he will do that well, but he should be able to bat .270 or so. Reed and Borchard should be good major leaguers, but until they're completely ready, Rowand is the best option. If he proves otherwise, then it may be best to prematurely promote one of them. I think he'll be fine, though.

depy48
01-26-2004, 12:03 AM
i'm fine with rowand in center. with an entire season to prove himself, he might just surprise a lot of people and be productive

SouthSideHitman
01-26-2004, 12:10 AM
I say let 'em all battle for it in Tucson and see who wins it. I think Rowand would do a stand-up job. Reed also intrigues me and he seems like a good OBP guy for the top of the order too. I continue to lost faith in Borchard and his mastery of the strike zone (or lack thereof), but who knows what'll happen? I'm actually very happy with the Sox CFers right now, I feel like we'll have a rising star there by the end of the year. Now if only I could say the same for our middle infielders.

joecrede
01-26-2004, 12:11 AM
In my view a Reed/Rowand platoon is the best option and should only be abondoned if Reed fails miserably in ST.

fquaye149
01-26-2004, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by SouthSideHitman
I say let 'em all battle for it in Tucson and see who wins it. I think Rowand would do a stand-up job. Reed also intrigues me and he seems like a good OBP guy for the top of the order too. I continue to lost faith in Borchard and his mastery of the strike zone (or lack thereof), but who knows what'll happen? I'm actually very happy with the Sox CFers right now, I feel like we'll have a rising star there by the end of the year. Now if only I could say the same for our middle infielders.



i wish borchard didn't have to play @#$%^ centerfield...but such is the state of the sox outfield...(not that i mind having carlos and maggs at the corners)

chisoxmike
01-26-2004, 12:51 AM
:LTP
"Start me beucase I love hacking at balls in the dirt."

HITMEN OF 77
01-26-2004, 01:08 AM
I'd like to see Reed get the job, but I do agree with the Tucson deal and he who plays best and shows the most promise gets the starting job.

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-26-2004, 01:13 AM
let the guys duke it out and hopefully the best man will win the job!

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 09:57 AM
Sure, let's let them duke it out, and the best man for the job will get it. That is the way to go, no doubt. But if the season started today and you had to decide right now, who do you feel more comfortable with?

Randar68
01-26-2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
In my view a Reed/Rowand platoon is the best option and should only be abondoned if Reed fails miserably in ST.

You should be shot if you think platooning Reed is a good idea in ANY sense of the term. If he isn't the starter, Reed should be in AAA.

UGH! And people here complain about how the Sox ruin their prospects, imagine if they listened to some of YOU!

voodoochile
01-26-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
You should be shot if you think platooning Reed is a good idea in ANY sense of the term. If he isn't the starter, Reed should be in AAA.

UGH! And people here complain about how the Sox ruin their prospects, imagine if they listened to some of YOU!

Totally agree. Right now, Rowand is the starter because others aren't ready/remain unproven. Platooning a young kid in his first year in the majors is a great way to develop a bench/platoon capable player. In other words, if you think they are a crucial part of the team's future, you should let them develop in the minors if you aren't going to play them everyday.

Hopefully Reed proves he belongs. If not, give the job to Rowand barring a breakout ST by Bazooka Joe...

Frater Perdurabo
01-26-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Sure, let's let them duke it out, and the best man for the job will get it. That is the way to go, no doubt. But if the season started today and you had to decide right now, who do you feel more comfortable with?

I say let the best man win the job in Tuscon. I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I think Reed wins the job.

depy48
01-26-2004, 12:33 PM
i dont want the sox to rush reed, thats why i think it might be smart to let rowand start the season in center. if rowand isnt producing and reed is tearing it up in triple A, then bring in reed in center.

SSN721
01-26-2004, 12:33 PM
I still believe Reed could use another year of development in the minors, give him a shot in ST sure. If he beats out everyone, great, but if he is just passable I completely disagree with platooning him. Let him develop I personally think Rowand is at least an average CF and has the ability and drive to be better. So I have no problem with him starting. And if I had to pick right now I would pick Rowand.

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 01:18 PM
I don't think there is anyone who doesn't want Maggs back if it is at all possible. However, the truth is is that he may not be. That's a seperate issue entirely. If he doesn't though, We will definitely need Reed and Rowand, unless a FA is picked up. It doesn't make much sense to bench Rowand this year and start him next year. A FA would probably be picked up, at least a backup (unless Borchard and Reed show brilliance). If Rowand shows he can be a good player, then that money may be put to better use by getting some top FA pitching. That's a ways away, but if Rowand can produce, it only helps the Sox next year and so on.

joecrede
01-26-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
You should be shot if you think platooning Reed is a good idea in ANY sense of the term. If he isn't the starter, Reed should be in AAA.

UGH! And people here complain about how the Sox ruin their prospects, imagine if they listened to some of YOU!

Reed is going to get 75-80% of the AB's by virtue of being left-handed. By June he should be the everyday CF'er.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Reed is going to get 75-80% of the AB's by virtue of being left-handed. By June he should be the everyday CF'er.

I don't care. You don't platoon your best prospects. Especially since Reed needs experience at a high level now more than he ever will at any other time.

BeerHandle
01-26-2004, 04:23 PM
Rowand's defense is fine. Now that he has a new batting stance his offense will start to improve. We need to have him hit around .265-.280.

TheRockinMT
01-26-2004, 04:29 PM
I think Aaron Rowand deserves the chance to show us that he can do the job full-time. He was supposed to be in the running the last 2 years and when he didn't get the spot he didn't complain or otherwise make a big scene. We need his "team" metality and their is no doubting his work ethic. I would like to see Borchard with the team also as a 4th OF'er and let him fill in when needed. Let him have a taste of the bigs and get him ready.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Rowand's defense is fine. Now that he has a new batting stance his offense will start to improve. We need to have him hit around .265-.280.

Wow, that Kool-Aid must be even stronger than I thought during the winter.

PS> His defense was not "FINE" at any point last season...

Randar68
01-26-2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
I think Aaron Rowand deserves the chance to show us that he can do the job full-time. He was supposed to be in the running the last 2 years and when he didn't get the spot he didn't complain or otherwise make a big scene. We need his "team" metality and their is no doubting his work ethic. I would like to see Borchard with the team also as a 4th OF'er and let him fill in when needed. Let him have a taste of the bigs and get him ready.

He hasn't been able to win the spot the past 2 years when it was basically handed to him...


But yeah, his defense will miraculously improve ten-fold and his new stance will make his OBP triple!!!




UGH.

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
He hasn't been able to win the spot the past 2 years when it was basically handed to him...


But yeah, his defense will miraculously improve ten-fold and his new stance will make his OBP triple!!!




UGH.

He was injured, and for an earlier comment you made about not realistically hitting between .260-.280, he hit .287 last year off the bench.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
He was injured, and for an earlier comment you made about not realistically hitting between .260-.280, he hit .287 last year off the bench.

and an OBP of what again?

Thanks.

I told myself I wasn't going to get into it again, but folks, you're setting yourself up here. There is absolutely nothing to base these unrealistic expectations on but blind faith and hope. Unfortunately, you're placing that in a guy who doesn't have the talent to fulfill them.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
He was injured, and for an earlier comment you made about not realistically hitting between .260-.280, he hit .287 last year off the bench.

and he was injured both of the past 2 years???


ummmmmm. no.

joecrede
01-26-2004, 04:42 PM
Rowand is among the best defensive CF'ers in the league. It's a shame he's an out machine.

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
and he was injured both of the past 2 years???


ummmmmm. no.

Last year he was injured, and the prior year we traded for Lofton. That's not his fault, he didn't lose the job, it was given away, and then he was injured. It doesn't say anything about him as a player.

Frater Perdurabo
01-26-2004, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Last year he was injured, and the prior year we traded for Lofton. That's not his fault, he didn't lose the job, it was given away, and then he was injured. It doesn't say anything about him as a player.

It says that the Sox didn't think he was good enough in 2002, so they got Lofton.

Riding a dirt bike isn't exactly the smartest thing to do when you are fighting for your MLB career, either.

I have no problem if he wins the job outright with a great spring training performance. If he wins the job by default (meaning Reed and Borchard both suck and Rowand is mediocre in spring training), then the Sox need to address CF in a jiffy.

Bottom line: Rowand has to produce. And CF should be an open competition. Until then, we doubters remain skeptical.

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo
It says that the Sox didn't think he was good enough in 2002, so they got Lofton.

Riding a dirt bike isn't exactly the smartest thing to do when you are fighting for your MLB career, either.

I have no problem if he wins the job outright with a great spring training performance. If he wins the job by default (meaning Reed and Borchard both suck and Rowand is mediocre in spring training), then the Sox need to address CF in a jiffy.

Bottom line: Rowand has to produce. And CF should be an open competition. Until then, we doubters remain skeptical.

He was a rookie then, of course Loften was an upgrade. The dirt bike incident just speaks to how he plays, fearless. After that though he sold the bike and will not ride again, for his career and his daughter. If he's healthy, which he is, he deserves a second chance. If Reed comes in and shows he is hands down he is a better option, then fine. But he's going to have to step up huge to make that happen.

quade36
01-26-2004, 05:11 PM
You gotta give Reed another year in the minors to see if he still will be as promising. If Read bats .350 next year in triple A by August, bring him up. But let him continue to prove himself. He is only 22 and I really don't want to get hopes too up from last season.

Rowand should start in Center unless they pick up someone big still (though I don't think there is anyone left). He deserves a chance. I think it would be a good idea too. Even though the Sox are going to compete for their division, they are going to try to rebuild in certain areas. (Rowand, Harris). Lets just see what they can do. Both looked mighty good when they were inserted into the lineup the last few weeks of the season.

minastirith67
01-26-2004, 05:33 PM
Has anybody heard how Borchard or Reed is doing in the offseason? Playing winterball or just lifting weights or something along those lines?

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by minastirith67
Has anybody heard how Borchard or Reed is doing in the offseason? Playing winterball or just lifting weights or something along those lines?

I haven't heard anything on Reed. Borchard got married this offseason, but was going to play winterball anyway, but KW told him not to because he feels his performance last season was due to a much needed rest. His performance has been said to be more mental than anything, so maybe the rest will do him good.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Rowand is among the best defensive CF'ers in the league. It's a shame he's an out machine.

It's amazing how you can utter completely idiotic words in the first half of the post followed by the first intelligent thing I've read in this entire thread.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
Last year he was injured, and the prior year we traded for Lofton. That's not his fault, he didn't lose the job, it was given away, and then he was injured. It doesn't say anything about him as a player.

What happenned after they traded Lofton???

Easy to ignore facts when you're grasping at straws, huh?

joecrede
01-26-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
It's amazing how you can utter completely idiotic words in the first half of the post followed by the first intelligent thing I've read in this entire thread.

Rowand has excellent range in center and didn't commit an error last season.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Rowand has excellent range in center and didn't commit an error last season.

Yep, that's what defines a CF'er. And if you think Rowand has excellent range, you need to get out more. He gets jumps like he is standing in quicksand.

joecrede
01-26-2004, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yep, that's what defines a CF'er. And if you think Rowand has excellent range, you need to get out more. He gets jumps like he is standing in quicksand.

You don't think Rowand covers a lot of ground? Interesting. Who are the AL's top defensive CF'ers in your opinion? And as far as jumps go, it's not how you start, it's how you finish.

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 07:02 PM
I can respect peoples opinion, but you are the only one making it seem like Rowand would be better off not even on the team. We all have seen Rowand and everybody likes his defense. For every play where he may not have gotten a good read on the ball, I can tell you about play where he made a homerun saving play or a throw out at home. He's not Tori Hunter, but he certainly isn't what you make him out to be. So you saw him in the minors, we all saw what he's done on the Sox. That's what really counts anyway. And the fact that he didn't make an error last season and you discount it as something that doesn't define a centerfielder, we'll what does it define then. If he gets these horrible reads, bounces off the walls, and runs around like a chicken with its head cut off, how did he manage not to make an error? And why was he put in late in games for his defense? You are entitled to your opinion, but you never state an example of why you feel that way.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
You don't think Rowand covers a lot of ground? Interesting. Who are the AL's top defensive CF'ers in your opinion? And as far as jumps go, it's not how you start, it's how you finish.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Did you read that before you posted it? Finishing with your face embedded in the OF wall doesn't mean squat, pal.

Jjav829
01-26-2004, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Yep, that's what defines a CF'er. And if you think Rowand has excellent range, you need to get out more. He gets jumps like he is standing in quicksand.

Ok, we all get that you think Rowand is awful. How do you explain the fact that his defensive statistics are all near the level of some of the players widely regarded as the best defensive centerfielders in baseball (Hunter, Beltran, Andruw, Cameron). No, defensive statistics aren't perfect, but his numbers aren't awful. I won't dispute that he doesn't always get great jumps on the ball, but for a guy who hasn't been playing center for too long, I think he's made strides.

As for my answer, I'd have to say Rowand by default. I think Reed has a chance to be a real good player and I don't want to see him rushed. I'd give Borchard a chance to win it but I think he still needs more time in the minors.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I can respect peoples opinion, but you are the only one making it seem like Rowand would be better off not even on the team. We all have seen Rowand and everybody likes his defense. For every play where he may not have gotten a good read on the ball, I can tell you about play where he made a homerun saving play or a throw out at home. He's not Tori Hunter, but he certainly isn't what you make him out to be. So you saw him in the minors, we all saw what he's done on the Sox. That's what really counts anyway. And the fact that he didn't make an error last season and you discount it as something that doesn't define a centerfielder, we'll what does it define then. If he gets these horrible reads, bounces off the walls, and runs around like a chicken with its head cut off, how did he manage not to make an error? And why was he put in late in games for his defense? You are entitled to your opinion, but you never state an example of why you feel that way.

I'm the only one that continues to arge with people about it. Most of the other people around here with demostrated knowledge of the game agree with me, but have given up arguing it with the FOC (Fans of Crash).

Errors are too subjective in this day and age, and defensive abilites are hardly capable of being judged by statistics. His reads are bad, he has ZERO footwork, and he has average (at best) speed.

I'm not going to bother coming up with a list of better defensive CF'ers, because if you think Aaron Rowand is in the upper echelon, I've got some swamp land in florida....

Look, if you're content with a below average no-hit no-walk CF'er, congrats, you'll get your wish. I think:

1) The fans deserve better
2) The team NEEDS better
3) The organization has better options (at least in the long run)

It's not defending what you have, it improving or demanding such in an area that requires it.

Having a defensively limited CF'er between corner OF's with limited range is a recipe for gapper after gapper. Add in the fact that said CF'er brings no speed or OBP ability to a team in desperate need of such (add in the fact he can't bunt and is not an effective situational hitter) and you have what you have.

I'm through. I don't know how much more concise and clear I can be, but I've watched a lot of tape on Rowand, and if you see him get a great jump on a ball hit right at him, let me know, because it will be the first.

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I'm the only one that continues to arge with people about it. Most of the other people around here with demostrated knowledge of the game agree with me, but have given up arguing it with the FOC (Fans of Crash).

Errors are too subjective in this day and age, and defensive abilites are hardly capable of being judged by statistics. His reads are bad, he has ZERO footwork, and he has average (at best) speed.

I'm not going to bother coming up with a list of better defensive CF'ers, because if you think Aaron Rowand is in the upper echelon, I've got some swamp land in florida....

Look, if you're content with a below average no-hit no-walk CF'er, congrats, you'll get your wish. I think:

1) The fans deserve better
2) The team NEEDS better
3) The organization has better options (at least in the long run)

It's not defending what you have, it improving or demanding such in an area that requires it.

Having a defensively limited CF'er between corner OF's with limited range is a recipe for gapper after gapper. Add in the fact that said CF'er brings no speed or OBP ability to a team in desperate need of such (add in the fact he can't bunt and is not an effective situational hitter) and you have what you have.

I'm through. I don't know how much more concise and clear I can be, but I've watched a lot of tape on Rowand, and if you see him get a great jump on a ball hit right at him, let me know, because it will be the first.

You're simply wrong.

joecrede
01-26-2004, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Did you read that before you posted it? Finishing with your face embedded in the OF wall doesn't mean squat, pal.

Who are the best defensive CF'ers in the AL?

Randar68
01-26-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
As for my answer, I'd have to say Rowand by default. I think Reed has a chance to be a real good player and I don't want to see him rushed. I'd give Borchard a chance to win it but I think he still needs more time in the minors.

I agree with those things for the moment.

However, for the most part, I disagree with people transforming Rowand into something he is absolutely not: An impact player.

People are making him out to be some kind of Willie Ways in CF and a 20 HR hitter with a .280 average. People are setting themselves up for disappointment.

The only success anyone can point to in his entire career is little blips here and there, both in his major and minor league careers. Is he adequate? Probably, yes. Does this team need something different out of that position? Without hesistation, definitely. That is my primary point. He might fit in on a loaded team with corner OF'ers with good range. This organization has bigger needs and most of them are of the form that can often times be filled by a player in CF.

Speed, defense, OBP, situational hitting... Rowand provides NONE of that. End of story.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Who are the best defensive CF'ers in the AL?

We've gone through this over and over and over, buddy, if you're that masochistic, look back on past threads, I don't have the time to go through this every 2 weeks with the latest newcomers.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
You're simply wrong.

I guess we'll see, but I've tried to supply as much evidence as is currently available. If you chose to ignore it, prepare to be disappointed.

Reality and fantasy land are 2 different things. Pass me the Kool-Aid. Apparently it's a strong batch this offseason.

joecrede
01-26-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
I'm through. I don't know how much more concise and clear I can be, but I've watched a lot of tape on Rowand, and if you see him get a great jump on a ball hit right at him, let me know, because it will be the first.

You have access to tape of Rowand? That settles it I guess then.

SEALgep
01-26-2004, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
You have access to tape of Rowand? That settles it I guess then.
Lol

joecrede
01-26-2004, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
I won't dispute that he doesn't always get great jumps on the ball, but for a guy who hasn't been playing center for too long, I think he's made strides.

Exactly. Rowand has made great strides defensively. That he can play all three OF positions at a high level make him a legit 4th OF'er.

dickallen15
01-26-2004, 07:32 PM
Rowand is a corner OF, playing CF because the organization refuses to draft or acquire a real one. He is not great defensively, but is Willie Mays with the glove if you compare him to Carl Everett. I think he still is learning, and can mature into a decent hitter. He isn't a middle of the order guy, but the White Sox have those. He could be a decent 7 hole guy. Remember, the White Sox started winning last year, BEFORE they acquired Everett and Alomar, with Harris at second and Rowand in CF. Both of them should improve this season, and if the Sox get solid pitching, a huge if, they will contend again.

A. Cavatica
01-26-2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Most of the other people around here with demostrated knowledge of the game agree with me

Sure, since you seem to define "demonstrated knowledge of the game" as agreeing with you.

The consensus here is that Rowand would be a good fourth outfielder who is adequate in center, both offensively and defensively. Adequate does not mean he's an All-Star. Adequate means the Sox have bigger problems to worry about.

I guess the large majority of us don't know anything about baseball.

jeremyb1
01-26-2004, 08:38 PM
Randar,

The only argument I've ever heard you make about Rowand's defense is that from your standpoint he's not a good fielder. The only arguments I've ever heard you make in support of that claim is generally that he doesn't look very pretty making plays which is irrelevant in my opinion. The bottom line is effectiveness not how good a fielder looks making plays. I've heard the argument that Rowand routinely misjudges balls which fly over his head or drop in for hits but I watch the games and that in no way falls in line with what I've seen on the screen. I can recall a few instances in which such plays have taken place such as a game against the Giants when Garland pitched and a ball sailed over Rowand's head. However, during the season (when people's memories should still be fresh) I've stopped and asked those bashing Rowand's defense to cite a recent example of him badly misplaying a ball if it happens often and no one ever steps up.

What I have to go by is my own observations that Rowand is a competent CF and every statistical observation (RF, zone rating, BP's RAR2) available to me. You can argue the merits of defensive statistics but the ability to measure defense with stats has significantly improved in recent years and it seems nonsensical to argue that Rowand is actually a terrible CF when several different statistical methods indicate he's a very good CF. Maybe the stats are off and he's only above average instead of great but it seems unlikely the stats would present the exact opposite of the truth.

As far as your earlier comments about Rowand's OBP last season, it was .330 which isn't stellar but its near league average and better than a number of players on our club. Rowand has shown a strong ability to draw walks from time to time (this summer in winter ball, '01 season) that may allow for a better OBP in the future.

I'll agree with you that Rowand is not an impact player but I don't feel he's much below average if he's in fact below average at all, especially relative to what has become a weak position throughout baseball.

jeremyb1
01-26-2004, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by quade36
You gotta give Reed another year in the minors to see if he still will be as promising. If Read bats .350 next year in triple A by August, bring him up. But let him continue to prove himself. He is only 22 and I really don't want to get hopes too up from last season.

I don't understand why some act as though Reed has never played above A ball before. Its far from unheard of for a player to skip AAA or only play a small number of games at that level. I'll allow for the possibility Reed is not ready but its also important to allow for the possibility that with a dominating performance at AA that Reed can help a contending club win games this season. I don't think we should rush him but if he appears ready to handle major leauge pitching, there's no reason to beat around the bush. If we wait til August to call him up when he's capable of contributing now that could potentially cost the club wins that could mean the difference between making the post-season and going home in what has the potential to be a tight race.

Randar68
01-26-2004, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Randar,

The only argument I've ever heard you make about Rowand's defense is that from your standpoint he's not a good fielder. The only arguments I've ever heard you make in support of that claim is generally that he doesn't look very pretty making plays which is irrelevant in my opinion. The bottom line is effectiveness not how good a fielder looks making plays. I've heard the argument that Rowand routinely misjudges balls which fly over his head or drop in for hits but I watch the games and that in no way falls in line with what I've seen on the screen. I can recall a few instances in which such plays have taken place such as a game against the Giants when Garland pitched and a ball sailed over Rowand's head. However, during the season (when people's memories should still be fresh) I've stopped and asked those bashing Rowand's defense to cite a recent example of him badly misplaying a ball if it happens often and no one ever steps up.

What I have to go by is my own observations that Rowand is a competent CF and every statistical observation (RF, zone rating, BP's RAR2) available to me. You can argue the merits of defensive statistics but the ability to measure defense with stats has significantly improved in recent years and it seems nonsensical to argue that Rowand is actually a terrible CF when several different statistical methods indicate he's a very good CF. Maybe the stats are off and he's only above average instead of great but it seems unlikely the stats would present the exact opposite of the truth.

As far as your earlier comments about Rowand's OBP last season, it was .330 which isn't stellar but its near league average and better than a number of players on our club. Rowand has shown a strong ability to draw walks from time to time (this summer in winter ball, '01 season) that may allow for a better OBP in the future.

I'll agree with you that Rowand is not an impact player but I don't feel he's much below average if he's in fact below average at all, especially relative to what has become a weak position throughout baseball.

Footwork, jumps, etc, etc. I'm sorry I don't have the time to make up some worthless stat to omake Rowandf appear better than he actually is. The read on the ball, the route, the footwork in settinig up for a throw ini addition to any physical talents that are pertinent are what makes up a good defensive CF'er. Rowand only grades out average in the tools aspect of it IMO.

This is seriously my last post in this thread. I have been using these observations for 2 years, and frankly, I'm dead tired of going OVER AND OVER the same crap about a select vocal group of people makinig the backup QB leap of faith for an average defensive CORNER OF'er.

It's not Rowand's fault he's been put in this position. He'd be an adequate 4th OF'er (although he's shown no PR, PH, or bunting abilities that make a 4th OF'er valuable).

Rowand has had 2 years to take this job, and every time he's given the opportunity, he fails. He has never shown the ability to play exceptional defense or get ton base, from the day he was drafted! But hey, it's all going to change for this already-at-his-peak OF'er, right.

This Rowand plays great defense notion is one of the biggest White Sox Red herrings of the past 15 years.

I don't care if people disagree with me, but Rowand in CF is like having a root canal every game. The fact he plays between 2 limited-range corner OF'ers only exacerbates the problem.

There's nothing left to do but let things play out at this point. However, IMO, it's unfortunate that this team is forced to rely on a platoon player as its full-time CF'er. This organization had to turn to Willie Harris in Cf for Christ's sake. What does that tell you of their opiniion of him? He's no spring chicken, and expecting any kind of improvement at this point is nonsense.

I'm done, I've had enough of the torment of even spending another minute thinking about Rowand in CF during the month of January. I don't need the nightmares.

Centerfield33
01-27-2004, 12:56 AM
Well, thank God you're done. Most everybody's tired of hearing you go on and on, seeing as you don't have a friggin clue. Aaron is gonna do fine and I'll quietly read these threads and watch you eat every stupid word you've written. So, why don't you sit back, watch, and learn something.

jeremyb1
01-27-2004, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Footwork, jumps, etc, etc. I'm sorry I don't have the time to make up some worthless stat to omake Rowandf appear better than he actually is. The read on the ball, the route, the footwork in settinig up for a throw ini addition to any physical talents that are pertinent are what makes up a good defensive CF'er. Rowand only grades out average in the tools aspect of it IMO.

If you're merely arguing that Rowand is an average fielder, not that he's a poor fielder I won't split hairs with you. To simply clarify my point though, myself and others watch the same games closely and don't see problems with Rowand's ability to read the ball, take a good route to the ball (I've said numerous times he takes much better routes than Lofton did with the Sox), his footwork, etc. As far as the fielding stats go, I disagree that they are completely meaningless. You can argue they're not perfect and I might tend to agree with you but to argue that the statistics are completely random and provide absolutely no indications as to a player's ability to field seems like a poor argument in my opinion.

Frater Perdurabo
01-27-2004, 11:22 AM
Its obvious that folks are digging in their heels on the matter of Rowand and his ability to be a successful starting CF for the Sox in 2004.

I happen to think he is not up to the job, but I hope I am wrong.

So, as I repeat for the eleventeenth time: HAVE AN OPEN COMPETITION IN TUSCON FOR THE CF JOB, AND MAY THE BEST MAN WIN.

I sincerely hope that in Tuscon, Rowand shows an increase in speed and instincts, covers the gaps like a blanket, bats .450, takes walks by the dozen and wins the job outright, allowing Borchard and Reed to spend more time developing themselves in the minors.

But if Rowand stinks up the joint, and Reed or Borchard show themselves vastly superior in direct competition, then they should win the job outright. What is so difficult about this concept?

There are some positions that should not be open for competition: we can write in ink that, barring trade or injury, Maggs will be the starting right fielder, Lee will be the starting left fielder, Crede will be the starting 3B, and Valentin, Frank and Konerko will be in the lineup. They are virtual locks based on past performace and/or lack of near-MLB ready options in the minors.

Rowand has not performed at the level where he should be guaranteed the starting CF job prior to spring training. And the Sox have two minor league outfielders who seemingly have equal or greater hitting and fielding potential -- tools -- (if not experience) in Reed and Borchard. That adds up to an open competition for the job.

poorme
01-27-2004, 11:41 AM
It seems to me that KW has written "Rowand" into the lineup card....in ink.

voodoochile
01-27-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by poorme
It seems to me that KW has written "Rowand" into the lineup card....in ink.

If Ozzie lets him do that then the season is lost before it starts. If KW wants to manage then he should apply for the job or talk JR into letting him do both...

Iwritecode
01-27-2004, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Remember, the White Sox started winning last year, BEFORE they acquired Everett and Alomar, with Harris at second and Rowand in CF.

They were a .500 team before they got Robbie and Carl. At one point they were 10 games under.

They were contenders AFTER the trade...

SEALgep
01-27-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
They were a .500 team before they got Robbie and Carl. At one point they were 10 games under.

They were contenders AFTER the trade... But the momentum had already turned over, that's what he's saying.