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Lip Man 1
01-25-2004, 11:57 PM
I have never read it expressed any better (with respects to Hanger 18)

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_imrem.asp?intid=38011175

Lip

CubKilla
01-26-2004, 12:24 AM
Gotta love any article which references Kenny Banya.

soxnut
01-26-2004, 12:36 AM
I agree with the article in regards to those who think the Sox should or would move somewhere else. There is too much potential in this market, and there is no better market in which to move.

Now, if JR seriously doesn't have the money, and all he does is break even, then it's time for him to sell to someone who does have the money. The other possibility is get more investors in their group, who want to win and are willing to spend. :(:

doublem23
01-26-2004, 12:52 AM
This guy must be reading the boards.

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-26-2004, 12:54 AM
it's so true yet depressing at the same time because we know that would happen but it won't unless reinsdorf sells the team

soxfan26
01-26-2004, 01:01 AM
The truth is, if the Sox can't draw fans, they have to try something different. The responsibility rests with the people in the front office, not the people on the street.


That Banya reference is perfect. Great Article.

DSpivack
01-26-2004, 01:03 AM
this is what makes the white sox so unique and interesting; and somewhat depressing...

they aren't so 'small market' that they're a detroit, pittsburgh, or cincinatti.

they aren't big market like a san francisco, new york, boston, or anaheim [with their big $pending this offseason].

they aren't a 'smart organization', or one that wins because of a strong organization and/or farm system; like a florida or oakland.

you could say that they are 'mid-market', like an atlanta [in its current state], st. louis, minnesota, or houston.

they are old; 100 years. they aren't 'storied', at least nationally so, like the red sox, yankees, cubs, dodgers, giants, etc. are.

they certainly aren't new. they don't have a 'tradition-filled' or old stadium, as the cubs, yankees, and red sox do.

they don't have a brand new, beautiful stadium, as san francisco does and [i believe] st. louis will.

they are the white sox.

not horrible.

not wonderful.

just mediocre.

"Like a women with a broken nose" [as Nelson Algren described Chicago] I love the White Sox not in spite of their flaws, but possibly because of them.

jordan23ventura
01-26-2004, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by DSpivack

they aren't big market like a san francisco, new york, boston, or anaheim [with their big $pending this offseason].

Yes they are.

Originally posted by DSpivack
you could say that they are 'mid-market', like an atlanta [in its current state], st. louis, minnesota, or houston.

i get what you're implying in that the sox are a large market team on the same spending ground as lower market teams. Houston is especially compareable to Minnesota. Only Clemens and Pettite over one offseason?

Originally posted by DSpivack
they are old; 100 years. they aren't 'storied', at least nationally so, like the red sox, yankees, cubs, dodgers, giants, etc. are.

Ever heard of a movie called "Field of Dreams"?

Originally posted by DSpivack
they certainly aren't new. they don't have a 'tradition-filled' or old stadium, as the cubs, yankees, and red sox do.

They have fan-filled stadiums and talent-laden clubhouses, thats the only difference.

Originally posted by DSpivack
they don't have a brand new, beautiful stadium, as san francisco does and [i believe] st. louis will.

what about miller park? who says a new stadium means anything?

Originally posted by DSpivack
they are the white sox. not horrible.

yes they are

DSpivack
01-26-2004, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura
i get what you're implying in that the sox are a large market team on the same spending ground as lower market teams. Houston is especially compareable to Minnesota. Only Clemens and Pettite over one offseason?

Ever heard of a movie called "Field of Dreams"?

They have fan-filled stadiums and talent-laden clubhouses, thats the only difference.

what about miller park? who says a new stadium means anything?

The White Sox may exist in a large-market city, but they certainly don't act like a big-market team.

Houston, this offseason, has brought in Clemens & Pettitte [though trading Wagner], while Minnesota has had to see the departures of Hawkins, Guardado, and more. This offseason, anyway, I would call the 'Stros somewhat large-market while the Twins would be rather small market.

Field of Dreams to me simple evokes the only thing the White Sox are known for, nationally [though unfairly because it was more a product of the time- The Sun Times had an article awhile ago about the 1918 World Series being fixed], that being the Black Sox scandal.

Fan-filled stadiums and talent-laden clubhouses, sure, but there is a mystique, however inaccurate and stupid, that is around the Cubs and Red Sox. The Yankees have it because they [arguably] deserve it- much the same the Lakers, Jordan-era Bulls, Celtics, etc. deserve it, as much as many may hate it.

Of course, brand new stadiums may mean nothing- see not just Milwaukee, but Detroit, Cincinatti, and Pittsburgh, as well. But a great new stadium undeniably has a great effect [and man is Pac Bell awesome].

To me, the reason the White Sox are so incredibly depressing and frustrating is not because they are horrible- it is because they are mediocre. It is one thing to be the worst team in a sport- such as the Devil Rays or Tigers. It is quite another to be consistently .500; and seemingly finish in 2nd place, year after year after year. The worst thing in sports, as the saying goes, is mediocrity.

hold2dibber
01-26-2004, 08:29 AM
The article hits the nail squarely on the head. I've been saying it for years - the White Sox are a slumbering giant. With ownership that had any kind of vision or ability to connect with the community, this team would easily be drawing at least 2.5 million fans annually. Instead, it's stuck in this pathetic cycle of mediocrity brought about, in large part, by the a mind-boggling series of public relation screw-ups over the last 20 years. And now it's up to the fans to fix it! Give me a break.

Hangar18
01-26-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I have never read it expressed any better (with respects to Hanger 18)

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_imrem.asp?intid=38011175

Lip

Havnt read it any expressed any better? hehh heh,
the guy Clearly Read My Post Yesterday. thats OK,
the words got to get out somehow......

bestkosher
01-26-2004, 09:15 AM
3.5 million left, so you are saying all of the nine million in chicago are baseball fans, and all came come to the ball aprk , i.e. handicapped, and or poor, so 2 million in my eyes is darn good the reason wh the cubs draws so well is not from chicago but from the bordering flub states

Procol Harum
01-26-2004, 10:21 AM
Muy excellante article. Unfortunately, it only tends to ratchet up my Sox fan angst as I know there is little chance for any movement on any of the points Imrem brings up as long as the ownership of this franchise is in the hands of J.R.

:reinsy
"My hands are tied! I'm stuck with a Major League Baseball franchise in Chicago--what rotten luck!"

idseer
01-26-2004, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by bestkosher
3.5 million left, so you are saying all of the nine million in chicago are baseball fans, and all came come to the ball aprk , i.e. handicapped, and or poor, so 2 million in my eyes is darn good the reason wh the cubs draws so well is not from chicago but from the bordering flub states

well now ... let's say only half of the 3.5 million would ever go to just one ballgame. that's already 1.75 million. of that half let's say a tenth go to 5 games a year. now that's 2.625 million. now it doesn't look so unrealistic, does it?

KingXerxes
01-26-2004, 10:55 AM
:reinsy

"Forget it - we're not paying Colon....we're not paying Everett either.....and I don't want to pay Ordonez so ship him out too.......and by the way - blame this all on the lack of fans."

:KW

"That's GOLD Jerry...........GOLD!"

idseer
01-26-2004, 10:55 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Procol Harum


:reinsy


is anyone else as sick of seeing this smarmy picture as i am?
everytime someone uses it i want to climb into the screen and wring his neck! can't we find a better representation? maybe a lump of poop so we'll all know who we're talking about? maybe a swastika? how about just a smudge? :angry:

surfdudes
01-26-2004, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by idseer
well now ... let's say only half of the 3.5 million would ever go to just one ballgame. that's already 1.75 million. of that half let's say a tenth go to 5 games a year. now that's 2.625 million. now it doesn't look so unrealistic, does it?

exactly...... Jr needs, needed, and will need to give a little to get a little. The Telescrubbies went to the playoffs, added a few guys,
what do you think their attendance and t.v. ratings are going to be like this year?

DSpivack
01-26-2004, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Procol Harum is anyone else as sick of seeing this smarmy picture as i am?
everytime someone uses it i want to climb into the screen and wring his neck! can't we find a better representation? maybe a lump of poop so we'll all know who we're talking about? maybe a swastika? how about just a smudge? :angry: [/B]

Sicked and tired of it, but obviously out of anger and frustration of being a White Sox fan.

As a Jew, he is added to my list as a disgrace to my religion [joining the likes of Woody Allen, William Shatner, Robert Downey, Jr., Wynona Ryder, Michael Milken, etc.].

SSN721
01-26-2004, 11:48 AM
Great article that seems dead-on to me. I know it is really just a summary and condensed version of everything I see on this site everyday but it is still nice to see a few stories in print where non-die-hard Sox fans might actually read it. The more of these stories that are printed the better it will be. Just nice to see someone who doesn't even claim to be a Sox fan see what is going on and write out the situation and feelings we all have quite convincingly.

lowesox
01-26-2004, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
:reinsy

"Forget it - we're not paying Colon....we're not paying Everett either.....and I don't want to pay Ordonez so ship him out too.......and by the way - blame this all on the lack of fans."

:KW

"That's GOLD Jerry...........GOLD!"

Rarely does a post make me laugh out loud. This one did.

maurice
01-26-2004, 01:21 PM
I loved the following quote:

The truth is, if the Sox can't draw fans, they have to try something different. The responsibility rests with the people in the front office, not the people on the street. One thing I'm pretty sure of is it isn't good business policy to expect the public to improve the product. I don't recall Charmin ever encouraging the consumer to go out and chop down softer trees.

Linky (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_imrem.asp?intid=38011175)

StillMissOzzie
01-26-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
:reinsy

"Forget it - we're not paying Colon....we're not paying Everett either.....and I don't want to pay Ordonez so ship him out too.......and by the way - blame this all on the lack of fans."

:KW

"That's GOLD Jerry...........GOLD!"

LMAO too! Even the names are perfect!

SMO

RKMeibalane
01-26-2004, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
Sicked and tired of it, but obviously out of anger and frustration of being a White Sox fan.

As a Jew, he is added to my list as a disgrace to my religion [joining the likes of Woody Allen, William Shatner, Robert Downey, Jr., Wynona Ryder, Michael Milken, etc.].

William Shatner is Jewish?