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View Full Version : Yesterdays Sun-Times: If Fans Come Out, Sox May Build


Hangar18
01-25-2004, 02:12 PM
That infuriated me all nite long. Why doesnt this team Think
Outside the Box for once? Why Doesnt this story say instead,
"If Sox Build, Fans will come". Its that simple, they added
Colon, a Major Piece to the puzzle and the season tickets went
like hotcakes. This Organization is really Bogus.

beckett21
01-25-2004, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
That infuriated me all nite long. Why doesnt this team Think
Outside the Box for once? Why Doesnt this story say instead,
"If Sox Build, Fans will come". Its that simple, they added
Colon, a Major Piece to the puzzle and the season tickets went
like hotcakes. This Organization is really Bogus.

See my post in the *smart organization* thread. It is an absolute insult. :angry:

RKMeibalane
01-25-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
That infuriated me all nite long. Why doesnt this team Think
Outside the Box for once? Why Doesnt this story say instead,
"If Sox Build, Fans will come". Its that simple, they added
Colon, a Major Piece to the puzzle and the season tickets went
like hotcakes. This Organization is really Bogus.

I can't say I'm surprised. Reinsdorf has been feeding us this bull**** for years. Everything he does is somehow contingent upon whether the fans attend games, regardless of what kind of team has been put together. When is he going to realize that nobody wants to pay for an unsatisfactory product? Even teams such as the Yankees or Red Sox understand that the interest level of their fans greatly depends on what they do to improve the quality of their respective ballclubs.

Reinsdorf's attitude might have worked forty or fifty years ago, when people were much more inclined to support a team "through thik and thin." That isn't the case anymore. Aside from the hard-core Sox fans, most of which visit this site or another one like it, JR doesn't have much of a fanbase left. What he doesn't understand is that he is to blame the deterioration of said fanbase, so only he can heal the wounds of ten years ago and restore the Sox to their rightful place amongst baseball's elite.

Hangar18
01-25-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by beckett21
See my post in the *smart organization* thread. It is an absolute insult. :angry:

The "If-You-Show-Up, We May Build" Marketing Plan for 2004/
Business Model has More Holes than Swiss Cheese and Id Never, as a business partner/investor, allow that to be Implemented. But Heres the Best Part Sox Fans, Business Planners. THE SOX HAVE ALREADY TRIED THIS !!!
IT DOESNT WORK !!!! How Stupid Can this Team Be?? What,
keep trying it til it works? Hope that Maybe the Fans will realize ... This Time We Mean It.....Show Up and We May Build??
Is this team Kidding?

This is straight out of Jerry Reinsdorfs New Book "How to Run Your Business Into the Ground....on someone else's Dime"

Dub25
01-25-2004, 03:01 PM
What about the 1.9 mil that showed up? Especially after the Alomar and Everett deals. Walk up crowds were huge. I guess the 1.9 really didn't happen. I must have imagined it all and their was really only 900,000 in attendance last year . That's why we have to come out so they can built. Hey JR get a friggin clue you cheap ass son of a...

soxfan26
01-25-2004, 03:07 PM
KW says (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox24.html) ...

"Hopefully, people will come out so we'll have a chance in June and July to add.''

:angry:

In the story, they also talk about a $60m budget, I thought it was $58!?! This seriously is a slap in the face.

Maybe it is a sign that KW has made progress with JR and is slowly convincing him to raise the payroll. Maybe it's an encoded message to the fans...

It sure isn't a sign that JR gives two ****s about this team.

Soxfest
01-25-2004, 03:58 PM
Between a cheap owner and dumbass GM and manager there is not alot to look for in 2004 :angry:

duke of dorwood
01-25-2004, 06:06 PM
He's trying to fatten his retirement fund-people came last year-attendance was good-for a .500 team. So, he cuts payroll, and raises prices (anyone remember that?)

munchman33
01-25-2004, 06:23 PM
People, people, people!

We go through this every offseason. Yet every time someone states the team's position on payroll being affected by attendance, everyone gets up in arms. This is simply the way it is. The organization does not have to change. THEY own the team. Not us.

We could boycott all we want, but that would lead to smaller and smaller payrolls. Jerry is always going to make his money. The only real solution is to support the product on the field by going to games. And it has to be for a whole season if we want to affect the next years payroll. Otherwise, we're gonna be stuck like this forever.

Jerry will never sell. Payroll will always be tied to attendance. Winning will always be tied to attendance. That's just the way our organization operates and will continue to operate despite your objections. Live with it our move on with your lives.

flo-B-flo
01-25-2004, 06:39 PM
If you get off too a good start. Pile up some wins in April and and May. Get yourself into the race early. Give us some ****in' hope. The fans will flood the cellphone park. When it's worth going to see a good team the folks show up. I can only conclude that Jerry hates the fans.

kittle42
01-25-2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
I can only conclude that Jerry hates the fans.

I don't think that's true. I mean maybe he does, but really he is just a bottom-line businessman with no real passion for the teams he runs.

soxfan26
01-25-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
Jerry will never sell.

That may be true, but nobody lives forever.

munchman33
01-25-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by flo-B-flo
If you get off too a good start. Pile up some wins in April and and May. Get yourself into the race early. Give us some ****in' hope. The fans will flood the cellphone park. When it's worth going to see a good team the folks show up. I can only conclude that Jerry hates the fans.

Please stop acting like the organization OWES any of us anything. You'll feel much better when you realize that they don't. They're going to run it how they want, and getting angry isn't going to change it. The only thing that will change it is a large fanbase that comes even in the bad times. The organization will accept nothing less. They'd rather make money with a small payroll than win with a higher payroll and lose money.

TornLabrum
01-25-2004, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
Please stop acting like the organization OWES any of us anything. You'll feel much better when you realize that they don't. They're going to run it how they want, and getting angry isn't going to change it. The only thing that will change it is a large fanbase that comes even in the bad times. The organization will accept nothing less. They'd rather make money with a small payroll than win with a higher payroll and lose money.

I'd say if you're in a business, you owe your customers the best product. Otherwise they may go elsewhere. Witness Sox attendance since 1991.

munchman33
01-25-2004, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
That may be true, but nobody lives forever.

LOL, but I wouldn't put it past Jerry to find a way.

munchman33
01-25-2004, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I'd say if you're in a business, you owe your customers the best product. Otherwise they may go elsewhere. Witness Sox attendance since 1991.

Regardless of attendance, he's still making money. In his mind, there's no reason to risk losing money when he can simply continue to lower payroll to make up for gate losses. He doesn't care about attendance or winning, or at least they are a distant second to making a profit.

soxfan26
01-25-2004, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
LOL, but I wouldn't put it past Jerry to find a way.

That would be our luck. I will concede that the White Sox do not owe us anything, I agree with you for the most part. But do you think it is smart for a GM who is a recluse from the media for months at a time to make public statements like these? Forgive the analogy but it is like telling a battered woman it's all her fault.

munchman33
01-25-2004, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
That would be our luck. I will concede that the White Sox do not owe us anything, I agree with you for the most part. But do you think it is smart for a GM who is a recluse from the media for months at a time to make public statements like these? Forgive the analogy but it is like telling a battered woman it's all her fault.

Kenny is just relaying to the fans Jerry's position. He's trying to help himself, because he knows his payroll is tied to attendance.

This position is nothing new to sox fans. Yet I continue to hear nothing but complaining, with little action to make things better. You all know what needs to be done. You must go to games. There is no getting around this. Jerry won't give in. WE MUST. Why hasn't everyone realized this. I though Sox fans were supposed to be smart.

soxfan26
01-25-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
This position is nothing new to sox fans. Yet I continue to hear nothing but complaining, with little action to make things better. You all know what needs to be done. You must go to games. There is no getting around this. Jerry won't give in. WE MUST. Why hasn't everyone realized this. I though Sox fans were supposed to be smart.

That is your opinoin. But I'm in the mood for analogies tonight, so that is like saying that on the Las Vegas strip it would be OK for a casino to market itself to people like this:

"Get your tail in here, or the showgirls will keep getting uglier!"

"We sold off our blackjack tables, there's no more slots, but that's your fault - You people just won't buy enough weekend packages!"

You can't tell people not to get mad. It's one thing to cut payroll. But it's another to tell your fans it is their fault.

TornLabrum
01-25-2004, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
Kenny is just relaying to the fans Jerry's position. He's trying to help himself, because he knows his payroll is tied to attendance.

This position is nothing new to sox fans. Yet I continue to hear nothing but complaining, with little action to make things better. You all know what needs to be done. You must go to games. There is no getting around this. Jerry won't give in. WE MUST. Why hasn't everyone realized this. I though Sox fans were supposed to be smart.

Maybe people would go to games if ownership did anything to give the fans hope for anything more than another year of mediocrity.

munchman33
01-25-2004, 10:10 PM
You people just don't get it. There is nothing wrong with the White Sox in the eyes of the owner. Business is good. He's making profit. He has a certain comfort level. There's no reason to take risks with no basis for action. There is no proof that spending more will translate to winning. There is no proof that spending more will translate to making more money. What happens if payroll is, say $80 million and we stink? Recent history says attendance will be the same as it always has. Only in that scenario, Jerry loses money. Why risk it?

If business is good and you're making money, there's no reason to take such a risk that could cost you millions and the franchise.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is thinking as a fan and not as a businessman.

Gil1957
01-25-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
Anyone who thinks otherwise is thinking as a fan and not as a businessman.

This is a web site full of fans munchman33, biased borderline fanatical Sox fans. Why are you trying to appeal to the businessman in Sox fans?

All businesses have to invest in their product. People demand quality products at the mall and the grocery store, why should it be any different at the Cell?

The difference is if the steaks at Jewel are no good, you go to Cub food and don't think twice about it. But the difference is that most of us have been Sox fans all our lives and want to stay that way. But we are tired of being blamed for the inferior product on the field.

If you don't agree than that is your prerogative. I can respect your opinion, but obviously you cannot do the same.

voodoochile
01-25-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Gil1957
This is a web site full of fans munchman33, biased borderline fanatical Sox fans. Why are you trying to appeal to the businessman in Sox fans?

All businesses have to invest in their product. People demand quality products at the mall and the grocery store, why should it be any different at the Cell?

The difference is if the steaks at Jewel are no good, you go to Cub food and don't think twice about it. But the difference is that most of us have been Sox fans all our lives and want to stay that way. But we are tired of being blamed for the inferior product on the field.

If you don't agree than that is your prerogative. I can respect your opinion, but obviously you cannot do the same.

From one fan to another, Welcome Aboard! :D:

I also agree. I didn't become a fan to worry about the money side of the game. JR has forced me to become acquainted with them so I can understand what he is talking about, but it still doesn't matter to me.

Spend the money and win or...

:selljerry

soxfan26
01-25-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by Gil1957
This is a web site full of fans munchman33, biased borderline fanatical Sox fans. Why are you trying to appeal to the businessman in Sox fans?

All businesses have to invest in their product. People demand quality products at the mall and the grocery store, why should it be any different at the Cell?

The difference is if the steaks at Jewel are no good, you go to Cub food and don't think twice about it. But the difference is that most of us have been Sox fans all our lives and want to stay that way. But we are tired of being blamed for the inferior product on the field.

If you don't agree than that is your prerogative. I can respect your opinion, but obviously you cannot do the same.

WAY TO GO GIL!!!

Daver
01-25-2004, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Gil1957
This is a web site full of fans munchman33, biased borderline fanatical Sox fans. Why are you trying to appeal to the businessman in Sox fans?

All businesses have to invest in their product. People demand quality products at the mall and the grocery store, why should it be any different at the Cell?

The difference is if the steaks at Jewel are no good, you go to Cub food and don't think twice about it. But the difference is that most of us have been Sox fans all our lives and want to stay that way. But we are tired of being blamed for the inferior product on the field.

If you don't agree than that is your prerogative. I can respect your opinion, but obviously you cannot do the same.


Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

munchman33
01-25-2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Gil1957
This is a web site full of fans munchman33, biased borderline fanatical Sox fans. Why are you trying to appeal to the businessman in Sox fans?

All businesses have to invest in their product. People demand quality products at the mall and the grocery store, why should it be any different at the Cell?

The difference is if the steaks at Jewel are no good, you go to Cub food and don't think twice about it. But the difference is that most of us have been Sox fans all our lives and want to stay that way. But we are tired of being blamed for the inferior product on the field.

If you don't agree than that is your prerogative. I can respect your opinion, but obviously you cannot do the same.

I'm as big a fan as the next guy. The point I made earlier was if you can't live with the current situation, MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIVES. This is the way it is, and you can't change it.

I am in no way defending the way Jerry does business. If I were owner, I would take more risks. But fans need to realize that JERRY WILL NOT. If you can't accept this, then you might as well stop being a Sox fan, because it's never going to change.

soxfan26
01-26-2004, 12:05 AM
munchman33,

Read this story (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_imrem.asp?intid=38011175) from the Daily Herald

Your last post just makes Gil's point even better. If you are going to accept mediocrity, that is all ownership will offer.

munchman33
01-26-2004, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by soxfan26
munchman33,

Read this story (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/col_imrem.asp?intid=38011175) from the Daily Herald

Your last post just makes Gil's point even better. If you are going to accept mediocrity, that is all ownership will offer.

That story is simply a dream. We see stories like that every offseason. And every offseason we are fed the same story from management. And every year sox fans complain. And every year attendance suffers. And every year, Jerry makes his money. You guys keep spilling opinion while I keep giving facts.

If we're talking opinion, I'm on your side. But opinion counts for squat in this case. Our opinions on what management should do are meaningless. And if you think they're not, you're living in denial.

For the last time, MANAGEMENT WILL NOT CHANGE. I'm not saying they shouldn't change. I'm saying they won't. Stop making it seem like I'm siding with them.

My point is that they won't change and we have to. Unless your point is that management will change, by some miracle, don't try to rebut this!

Lip Man 1
01-26-2004, 01:14 AM
Munchman:

You are right management will NOT change and you know what neither will Sox fans.

They won't make the first move yesterday, they won't make the first move today and they won't make the first move tomorrow. perhaps you need to accept that as well.

We can all take solace in the fact that Uncle Jerry turns 68 next month. The average life expectancy in the USA is 72.

I'm 47. I think I have a good shot to outlive him. That keeps me going.

White Sox fans by and large will never trust Uncle Jerry and while loving the team, will do all they can to support the club without increasing his bank account. And in my opinion that is EXACTLY the way it should be until a new owner takes over.

Lip

TommyJohn
01-26-2004, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Munchman:

You are right management will NOT change and you know what neither will Sox fans.


We can all take solace in the fact that Uncle Jerry turns 68 next month. The average life expectancy in the USA is 72.

I'm 47. I think I have a good shot to outlive him. That keeps me going.

Then again, you could go tomorrow. Or me. Or any one of us.
Or Osama bin Laden. I think it would be better for all of us in
general if he went before "Uncle Jerry." But that's just me.
Anyway, I'll just hope he sells.

[/B][/QUOTE]White Sox fans by and large will never trust Uncle Jerry and while loving the team, will do all they can to support the club without increasing his bank account. And in my opinion that is EXACTLY the way it should be until a new owner takes over.

Lip [/QUOTE]

And there is no guarantee AT ALL that a new owner would do
anything different. Reinsdorf was supposed to be different that
Bill Veeck, remember? Well, he has all of the cheapness with
none of the personality.

A new owner might take a look at the team and decide that
Reinsdorf was doing it right. Or, he might decide that any team
is crazy to try and compete with the Cubs and try to move the team. Any one of those things could happen.

munchman33
01-26-2004, 02:03 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
White Sox fans by and large will never trust Uncle Jerry and while loving the team, will do all they can to support the club without increasing his bank account. And in my opinion that is EXACTLY the way it should be until a new owner takes over.

Lip

I agree with that, but I will still go despite Jerry, because I truly love this team. I wish others would look past him as well.

soxfan26
01-26-2004, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by munchman33

That story is simply a dream. We see stories like that every offseason. And every offseason we are fed the same story from management. And every year sox fans complain. And every year attendance suffers. And every year, Jerry makes his money. You guys keep spilling opinion while I keep giving facts.

If we're talking opinion, I'm on your side. But opinion counts for squat in this case. Our opinions on what management should do are meaningless. And if you think they're not, you're living in denial.

For the last time, MANAGEMENT WILL NOT CHANGE. I'm not saying they shouldn't change. I'm saying they won't. Stop making it seem like I'm siding with them.

My point is that they won't change and we have to. Unless your point is that management will change, by some miracle, don't try to rebut this!

Originally posted by Gil1957

If you don't agree than that is your prerogative. I can respect your opinion, but obviously you cannot do the same.

I couldn't have said it better. We obviously don't agree. I post my opinion, and provide links for articles that support it. You post your opinion and tell me that I must change to meet your standards. You do have the option of ignoring my posts, and I would prefer that you do that before you tell me what I "have" to do. If you want to accept management for what they are then do so. In the spirit of acceptance, you should accept the fact that most Sox fans do not.

gosox41
01-26-2004, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by beckett21
See my post in the *smart organization* thread. It is an absolute insult. :angry:

Yet how many of you guys are going to SoxFest this weekend to whoop it up??

Bob

gosox41
01-26-2004, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I'd say if you're in a business, you owe your customers the best product. Otherwise they may go elsewhere. Witness Sox attendance since 1991.

Hal,
But there's still people like us who keep coming back for more. I don't have the hatred of JR that you do, but I believe you said you went to 20 games last season (and maybe more like 6 ths year.) WHile I know you have family traditions and you believe in supportinig the players on the field and not the management the simple fact is by showing up you're helping support JR and his backwards way of running an organization.

Isn't there a point where one gets kick in the nuts enough to just give up and stop supporting this team financially? Still watch them on TV. But instead of meeting all the WSI'ers at Soxfest to go drinking plan another night out. When JR or his cronies sees the attendance at SoxFest this weekend, based on your dislike of the man and his greed, you must think he is looking at 15K suckers. And there's no game this weekend. It's just a feel good weekend offered by a team that hasn't done a lot to make their fans feel good. But they still come back for more.

Bob

gosox41
01-26-2004, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Gil1957
This is a web site full of fans munchman33, biased borderline fanatical Sox fans. Why are you trying to appeal to the businessman in Sox fans?

All businesses have to invest in their product. People demand quality products at the mall and the grocery store, why should it be any different at the Cell?

The difference is if the steaks at Jewel are no good, you go to Cub food and don't think twice about it. But the difference is that most of us have been Sox fans all our lives and want to stay that way. But we are tired of being blamed for the inferior product on the field.

If you don't agree than that is your prerogative. I can respect your opinion, but obviously you cannot do the same.

Because people make decisions based on reality (in this case business) and not fantasy. The biggest way to hurt JR and acheive your fantasy is to not support him financially.

Are you going to SoxFest this weekend?

Bob

gosox41
01-26-2004, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by munchman33
That story is simply a dream. We see stories like that every offseason. And every offseason we are fed the same story from management. And every year sox fans complain. And every year attendance suffers. And every year, Jerry makes his money. You guys keep spilling opinion while I keep giving facts.

If we're talking opinion, I'm on your side. But opinion counts for squat in this case. Our opinions on what management should do are meaningless. And if you think they're not, you're living in denial.

For the last time, MANAGEMENT WILL NOT CHANGE. I'm not saying they shouldn't change. I'm saying they won't. Stop making it seem like I'm siding with them.

My point is that they won't change and we have to. Unless your point is that management will change, by some miracle, don't try to rebut this!

Attendance doesn't suffer every year. Look at last season. 1.9 million plus. And most of that came AFTER the All Star Break.

Bob

Hangar18
01-26-2004, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Yet how many of you guys are going to SoxFest this weekend to whoop it up??

Bob

Who said Im there to "whoop it up" ? Im there to see everyone
and give Uncle Jerry hell first chance I get.....

jabrch
01-26-2004, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by munchman33
You people just don't get it. There is nothing wrong with the White Sox in the eyes of the owner. Business is good. He's making profit. He has a certain comfort level. There's no reason to take risks with no basis for action. There is no proof that spending more will translate to winning. There is no proof that spending more will translate to making more money. What happens if payroll is, say $80 million and we stink? Recent history says attendance will be the same as it always has. Only in that scenario, Jerry loses money. Why risk it?

If business is good and you're making money, there's no reason to take such a risk that could cost you millions and the franchise.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is thinking as a fan and not as a businessman.


Yeah, when Donald Trump owned 3 two-flats in Brooklyn, and he was making money renting them out, why did he bother trying to invest in high rises and higer end properties? TO GROW HIS BUSINESS. Did he put the money at risk that he had made over the years? Sure he did. But any smart businessman knows they only way to make more money is to grow your business. In sports, it means increase your revenues which can only come from increasing your fan base.

Does JR realize that what he has done (or hasn't done) in the past two years, while the Cubs have been building a potential dynasty calibre team, has reduced his fan base? Young kids in this city are becoming Cubs fans at a far higher rate than ever before. JR is actually reducing his revenue base. I already said that I won't consider a season ticket package again so long as he is the owner. I am bringing my own food tihs season to the games (except the Churros) and I am reducing my beer intake. I already quit driving to the games. I went to 28 games last year. I'll probably go to about the same this year. But my spending on things directly going into JR's pocket will be greatly reduced.

This is what JR gets for "not taking risks" and trying to improve (or at least maintain) a quality product.

gosox41
01-26-2004, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Who said Im there to "whoop it up" ? Im there to see everyone
and give Uncle Jerry hell first chance I get.....

A apologize. You're the exception. But even some die hards here have been telling you to tone it down. Personally, I'd love to see a big protest and outpuring of booing. And if something legit. were organzied I may even go, but no this year. JR's saving me some coin and the chance to stand in long lines where 98% of the Sox fans are whopping it up.

Bob

gosox41
01-26-2004, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Yeah, when Donald Trump owned 3 two-flats in Brooklyn, and he was making money renting them out, why did he bother trying to invest in high rises and higer end properties? TO GROW HIS BUSINESS. Did he put the money at risk that he had made over the years? Sure he did. But any smart businessman knows they only way to make more money is to grow your business. In sports, it means increase your revenues which can only come from increasing your fan base.

Does JR realize that what he has done (or hasn't done) in the past two years, while the Cubs have been building a potential dynasty calibre team, has reduced his fan base? Young kids in this city are becoming Cubs fans at a far higher rate than ever before. JR is actually reducing his revenue base. I already said that I won't consider a season ticket package again so long as he is the owner. I am bringing my own food tihs season to the games (except the Churros) and I am reducing my beer intake. I already quit driving to the games. I went to 28 games last year. I'll probably go to about the same this year. But my spending on things directly going into JR's pocket will be greatly reduced.

This is what JR gets for "not taking risks" and trying to improve (or at least maintain) a quality product.

Glad to see you make the cutbacks, but you're still feeding the monster.

Bob

Iwritecode
01-26-2004, 09:51 AM
Munchman, there is an inherent problem with your theory of "show up no matter what".

If we were all like Cub fans and had attendances of 2-3 million every year while the team loses 90 games, where exactly would the incentive for JR to spend more money come from? If he only spends 60 million and people show up in droves, guess what? He makes that much more money! He'll sit and say to himself hey, I don't even have to spend any money and people keep showing up and giving me theirs!

We have absolutely no guarantee that he will spend any more if we do start showing up. It HAS to be the other way around. If everyone quits showing up to the park then it doesn't matter how much (or little) he spends, if there's nobody there, he's not going to make any money...

Iwritecode
01-26-2004, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
Isn't there a point where one gets kick in the nuts enough to just give up and stop supporting this team financially? Still watch them on TV. But instead of meeting all the WSI'ers at Soxfest to go drinking plan another night out. When JR or his cronies sees the attendance at SoxFest this weekend, based on your dislike of the man and his greed, you must think he is looking at 15K suckers. And there's no game this weekend. It's just a feel good weekend offered by a team that hasn't done a lot to make their fans feel good. But they still come back for more.

Bob

First of all, I doubt that JR is seeing a whole lot of money from this weekend besides what is being sold at the booths and the garage sale. I'm sure a lot of the money for the Soxfest passes end up going to the hotel. Second, it's extremely difficult to get the number of WSI members that will be there all at one place at the same time. This is a great opportunity to meet a bunch of members that will probably never happen again. Lastly, if JR happens to be there, he'll be able to hear us booing him much more clearly that he would in his luxury suite at USCF...

kittle42
01-26-2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
A apologize. You're the exception. But even some die hards here have been telling you to tone it down. Personally, I'd love to see a big protest and outpuring of booing. And if something legit. were organzied I may even go, but no this year. JR's saving me some coin and the chance to stand in long lines where 98% of the Sox fans are whopping it up.Bob

I have to agree with Bob. I will unfortunately not be attending Sox Fest due to management's stupid placing of the event this weekend. However, if I were going, I would be right there with Hangar spewing all my venom towards the chairman. I love the Sox - my very being there when they have done nothing this offseason would have shown that - but I would find it the perfect opportunity to blast the number one problem this organization has: JR.

Hangar, carry the banner of loathing for those of us who cannot attend.

Chisox353014
01-26-2004, 11:50 AM
originally posted by Lip Man 1
We can all take solace in the fact that Uncle Jerry turns 68 next month. The average life expectancy in the USA is 72.

I'm 47. I think I have a good shot to outlive him. That keeps me going.

Lip

New slogan for 2004:
This Is White Sox Baseball - Just Hang On A Few More Years And The Bastard Will Keel Over!

CubKilla
01-26-2004, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
Hangar, carry the banner of loathing for those of us who cannot attend.

And for those of us that could but decided not to :D:

TornLabrum
01-26-2004, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
Hal,
But there's still people like us who keep coming back for more. I don't have the hatred of JR that you do, but I believe you said you went to 20 games last season (and maybe more like 6 ths year.) WHile I know you have family traditions and you believe in supportinig the players on the field and not the management the simple fact is by showing up you're helping support JR and his backwards way of running an organization.

Isn't there a point where one gets kick in the nuts enough to just give up and stop supporting this team financially? Still watch them on TV. But instead of meeting all the WSI'ers at Soxfest to go drinking plan another night out. When JR or his cronies sees the attendance at SoxFest this weekend, based on your dislike of the man and his greed, you must think he is looking at 15K suckers. And there's no game this weekend. It's just a feel good weekend offered by a team that hasn't done a lot to make their fans feel good. But they still come back for more.

Bob

First of all, I have more reasons for going to see the Sox play than I can verbalize. A lot of it has to do with the Sox being a link to my maternal grandfather. It was at his house that I saw the Chico Carrasquel homer that made me a fan. He told me about going to see Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver and before them Ed Walsh.

But that's not all of it. Until about a decade ago, I held a secondary allegiance to the Cubs, but I decided to dump them when I concluded that Uncle Jer wanted to win more than the Tribune Co. did. Boy, was that a mistake! But I'm a mongrel by descent, and the greater part of me is German, Dutch, and Swedish. This makes me bullheaded beyond belief. Once I'm made my decision, by yiminy, I'm going to stick by it.

But it's more than that. I devote a great deal of time to the Windy City Sox Fans. I've been on their executive board for all but about a year starting in 1995. Before that I was on the executive board of the now-defunct ChiSox club. I edit the WCSF newsletter. I help out at the summer luncheon series, the holiday party, and other events involving the players.

I've also been through the battling Comiskeys, two Veeck ownerships, the Allyns, and now Uncle Jer. I know that this, too, shall pass, and I intend to be around when it does.

I'm on a first-name basis with Nancy Faust and Gene Honda. Billy Pierce recognizes me and says hi when I'm around him. Billy Pierce and Nellie Fox were my idols. Without my loose association with the Sox organization (the WCSF is not affiliated in any way with the Sox), I never would have met Billy. Prety hard stuff to give up.

The Sox aren't just about today. They are about growing up and having idols. They're about that one taste I had of winning a pennant. They're about hope, and they're about nostalgia to me. And by God, I'm gonna outlast Reinsdorf and his cronies if I have to live to be a hundred.

ewokpelts
01-26-2004, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Yeah, when Donald Trump owned 3 two-flats in Brooklyn, and he was making money renting them out, why did he bother trying to invest in high rises and higer end properties? TO GROW HIS BUSINESS. Did he put the money at risk that he had made over the years? Sure he did. But any smart businessman knows they only way to make more money is to grow your business. In sports, it means increase your revenues which can only come from increasing your fan base.

Does JR realize that what he has done (or hasn't done) in the past two years, while the Cubs have been building a potential dynasty calibre team, has reduced his fan base? Young kids in this city are becoming Cubs fans at a far higher rate than ever before. JR is actually reducing his revenue base. I already said that I won't consider a season ticket package again so long as he is the owner. I am bringing my own food tihs season to the games (except the Churros) and I am reducing my beer intake. I already quit driving to the games. I went to 28 games last year. I'll probably go to about the same this year. But my spending on things directly going into JR's pocket will be greatly reduced.

This is what JR gets for "not taking risks" and trying to improve (or at least maintain) a quality product.

you dont have to buy the churros in the park either...pete's market has them for 1.25.......that'ss half of what jerry charges
Gene

munchman33
01-26-2004, 10:07 PM
But when was the last time the sox lost 90 games? It's not like Jerry's trying to put out a losing product. He's just not going to make the money commitment for an excellent team if its not going to draw.

For a team that was in the race most of the year, 1.9 million fans is really low.

Originally posted by Iwritecode
Munchman, there is an inherent problem with your theory of "show up no matter what".

If we were all like Cub fans and had attendances of 2-3 million every year while the team loses 90 games, where exactly would the incentive for JR to spend more money come from? If he only spends 60 million and people show up in droves, guess what? He makes that much more money! He'll sit and say to himself hey, I don't even have to spend any money and people keep showing up and giving me theirs!

We have absolutely no guarantee that he will spend any more if we do start showing up. It HAS to be the other way around. If everyone quits showing up to the park then it doesn't matter how much (or little) he spends, if there's nobody there, he's not going to make any money...

TornLabrum
01-26-2004, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
But when was the last time the sox lost 90 games? It's not like Jerry's trying to put out a losing product. He's just not going to make the money commitment for an excellent team if its not going to draw.

For a team that was in the race most of the year, 1.9 million fans is really low.

Mid-July through mid-September is not "most of the year." It's less than half.

Lip Man 1
01-26-2004, 10:46 PM
Look at the number of sell outs, 40 thousand attendance games or 30+ attendence games in the second half of the season.

Please don't tell me Sox fans didn't come out in droves. What was the Sox average per game attendence in the second half?

The average MLB attendance in 2003 was 2.2 million. The Sox drew 1.9 mil and were only compeditive the second half of the season.

Something to consider.

Lip

Hangar18
01-26-2004, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
First of all, I have more reasons for going to see the Sox play than I can verbalize. A lot of it has to do with the Sox being a link to my maternal grandfather. It was at his house that I saw the Chico Carrasquel homer that made me a fan. He told me about going to see Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver and before them Ed Walsh.

But that's not all of it. Until about a decade ago, I held a secondary allegiance to the Cubs, but I decided to dump them when I concluded that Uncle Jer wanted to win more than the Tribune Co. did. Boy, was that a mistake! But I'm a mongrel by descent, and the greater part of me is German, Dutch, and Swedish. This makes me bullheaded beyond belief. Once I'm made my decision, by yiminy, I'm going to stick by it.

But it's more than that. I devote a great deal of time to the Windy City Sox Fans. I've been on their executive board for all but about a year starting in 1995. Before that I was on the executive board of the now-defunct ChiSox club. I edit the WCSF newsletter. I help out at the summer luncheon series, the holiday party, and other events involving the players.

I've also been through the battling Comiskeys, two Veeck ownerships, the Allyns, and now Uncle Jer. I know that this, too, shall pass, and I intend to be around when it does.

I'm on a first-name basis with Nancy Faust and Gene Honda. Billy Pierce recognizes me and says hi when I'm around him. Billy Pierce and Nellie Fox were my idols. Without my loose association with the Sox organization (the WCSF is not affiliated in any way with the Sox), I never would have met Billy. Prety hard stuff to give up.

The Sox aren't just about today. They are about growing up and having idols. They're about that one taste I had of winning a pennant. They're about hope, and they're about nostalgia to me. And by God, I'm gonna outlast Reinsdorf and his cronies if I have to live to be a hundred.

Hal, its fans like yourself that make me wonder How Uncle
Jer sleeps at nite. Alas, he wont live forever ........

gosox41
01-27-2004, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
First of all, I doubt that JR is seeing a whole lot of money from this weekend besides what is being sold at the booths and the garage sale. I'm sure a lot of the money for the Soxfest passes end up going to the hotel. Second, it's extremely difficult to get the number of WSI members that will be there all at one place at the same time. This is a great opportunity to meet a bunch of members that will probably never happen again. Lastly, if JR happens to be there, he'll be able to hear us booing him much more clearly that he would in his luxury suite at USCF...

JR amy not be making a lot this weekend, but when he looks out and sees lines of people all he sees are future dollar signs. People who come there tend to go to at least 1 game a seaso. It would be more humbling for JR to have whateve news crews are there and show empty rooms and no lines. That's an embarassment and a testament to the fan base. When reporters report on Sox fest they don't say 15,000 people came today and of that #, 10K hate JR and his ownership but are here anyways.

If one wants JR to change his practives, then either don't show up or protest this team.

As for WSI'ers needing a place to meet. Why can't you all meet this Friday night in downtown Chicago but at a completely different bar that is not at the Hyatt?

Last, I assume you've been to these things before. Very few people boo. The reason I'm not going this year is because it's nothing but a love fest. Let's see the media show some protests or show some of the signs that are being talked about.

Bob

gosox41
01-27-2004, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
First of all, I have more reasons for going to see the Sox play than I can verbalize. A lot of it has to do with the Sox being a link to my maternal grandfather. It was at his house that I saw the Chico Carrasquel homer that made me a fan. He told me about going to see Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver and before them Ed Walsh.

But that's not all of it. Until about a decade ago, I held a secondary allegiance to the Cubs, but I decided to dump them when I concluded that Uncle Jer wanted to win more than the Tribune Co. did. Boy, was that a mistake! But I'm a mongrel by descent, and the greater part of me is German, Dutch, and Swedish. This makes me bullheaded beyond belief. Once I'm made my decision, by yiminy, I'm going to stick by it.

But it's more than that. I devote a great deal of time to the Windy City Sox Fans. I've been on their executive board for all but about a year starting in 1995. Before that I was on the executive board of the now-defunct ChiSox club. I edit the WCSF newsletter. I help out at the summer luncheon series, the holiday party, and other events involving the players.

I've also been through the battling Comiskeys, two Veeck ownerships, the Allyns, and now Uncle Jer. I know that this, too, shall pass, and I intend to be around when it does.

I'm on a first-name basis with Nancy Faust and Gene Honda. Billy Pierce recognizes me and says hi when I'm around him. Billy Pierce and Nellie Fox were my idols. Without my loose association with the Sox organization (the WCSF is not affiliated in any way with the Sox), I never would have met Billy. Prety hard stuff to give up.

The Sox aren't just about today. They are about growing up and having idols. They're about that one taste I had of winning a pennant. They're about hope, and they're about nostalgia to me. And by God, I'm gonna outlast Reinsdorf and his cronies if I have to live to be a hundred.

According to a lot of people around here, today there about nothing but JR making his money on a limited budget (if you choose to belive that, and I think you do to an extent.)

You can still be a Sox fan and watch on TV and not support SoxFest. Nothing wrong with devoting a good deal of time to this team, but just finding a way not to do it financially, especially if you believe JR is just running this team to make a ton of money.

Bob

cornball
01-27-2004, 07:52 AM
The funny thing is this recent article is not news. We have talked about this for years here. Sox management has spewed these thoughts several times. Now that it is in the newspapers, it becomes news and many casual fans/radio personalities are furious.

Much of the talk on local stations yesterday covered this story. Thought they were supposed to be experts on local teams.

Like Hal, we all have stories why we are Sox fans, however with the right ownership this team could be a bonanza in winning and making money.

jabrch
01-27-2004, 08:02 AM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
you dont have to buy the churros in the park either...pete's market has them for 1.25.......that'ss half of what jerry charges
Gene

Dear JR,

You have Gene to thank. I just saved myself another 6$ per game in Churro fees.

Jason

Gene, where is Pete's market? Are they good Churros?

ewokpelts
01-27-2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Dear JR,

You have Gene to thank. I just saved myself another 6$ per game in Churro fees.

Jason

Gene, where is Pete's market? Are they good Churros?

There's one by my house at 44th/Pulaski. But I have a feeling you can go to a Mexican supermarket and find them too. Or a Mexican Bakery.
Gene

jabrch
01-27-2004, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
There's one by my house at 44th/Pulaski. But I have a feeling you can go to a Mexican supermarket and find them too. Or a Mexican Bakery.
Gene


Ahhhh

I was hoping you'd tell me they are right by the park. I take the L to the park. I am sure there is somewhere around the stadium... I guess JR just got his 6$ back.

Iwritecode
01-27-2004, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Mid-July through mid-September is not "most of the year." It's less than half.

Exactly. We are talking about a team that was 10 games under .500 at one point! What do you think they should have drawn?

Originally posted by munchman33
But when was the last time the sox lost 90 games? It's not like Jerry's trying to put out a losing product. He's just not going to make the money commitment for an excellent team if its not going to draw.

Ok, 90 was just a number I threw out there. My main point still remains. What guarantee do we have that JR would actually spend the money to make the team better if we did start showing up?

Remember last year he aquired Robbie and Carl and got the Mets and Rangers to pay most (all?) of their salaries for the second half! I don't think JR had to pay either one of them a single thing the whole time they were on the team...

CubKilla
01-27-2004, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
According to a lot of people around here, today there about nothing but JR making his money on a limited budget (if you choose to belive that, and I think you do to an extent.)

You can still be a Sox fan and watch on TV and not support SoxFest. Nothing wrong with devoting a good deal of time to this team, but just finding a way not to do it financially, especially if you believe JR is just running this team to make a ton of money.

Bob

You just described me to a "T". I will always follow the White Sox on TV, in the press, and by posting on Sox-related messageboards regardless of my personal fiscal stand. But I just cannot stomach handing over one more dime to JR, until he sells or until it is deserved, after this incredibly disappointing offseason, the White Flag Trade, his leading-the-owners charge in 1994, etc. JR has done more to break my heart during his ownership than he has done to make me proud that I am a White Sox fan. Enough is enough.

soxrme
01-27-2004, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Soxfest
Between a cheap owner and dumbass GM and manager there is not alot to look for in 2004 :angry:

Don't forget the wonderfull pr department led by (?) mr Gallas.

Hangar18
01-27-2004, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by soxrme
Don't forget the wonderfull pr department led by (?) mr Gallas.

I dont think Rob Gallas is too much to blame. I still like his ideas, but theres NOT ENOUGH OF THEM. He needs an Infusion of Talented People, SOXFANS to work with him, get him to think Outside the Box a lot more. These guys should hire ME,
Id change the Perception of this team 180 in a heartbeat

Lip Man 1
01-27-2004, 01:08 PM
I just sent this e-mail to Williams. I know it won't change a thing but no one can say I didn't try:

Dear Mr. Williams:

Hope you and your family had a good holiday season.

I just wanted to pass along a reaction to your published comments on White Sox.com. To be perfectly frank I thought you knew better. I'm referring to the quote about fans coming out in April, May having a direct connection with the Sox acquiring players in June and July.

From a business stand point what you said may be perfectly correct but with relations as strained as they are by a fan base angry and distrusting of management, that didn't need to be said.

Also, again to be frank, Sox fans didn't make the "first move" (i.e. coming out to the park in droves without the team winning) yesterday, they won't make the first move today and they aren't going to make the first move tomorrow. It's never going to happen and anybody who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

Threats, throwing down the gauntlet, and not being willing to compete with the Cubs is not going to get fans into Comiskey Park.

If management would take the risk, raise payroll comparable to a team representing the 3rd largest market in the country and give their fans hope that they can actually win a championship, instead of 'settling' for maybe winning the weakest division in baseball, you'd have to beat fans away with a stick.

I'm afraid the entire situation is at a stalemate but as in any normal business environment it is up to the company to put out a good product before consumers respond. Thinking any other way is delusional at best and arrogant at worst.

Mark Liptak
Sox fan for 43 years
mliptak1@ida.net

Hangar18
01-27-2004, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I just sent this e-mail to Williams. I know it won't change a thing but no one can say I didn't try:

Dear Mr. Williams:

Hope you and your family had a good holiday season.

I just wanted to pass along a reaction to your published comments on White Sox.com. To be perfectly frank I thought you knew better. I'm referring to the quote about fans coming out in April, May having a direct connection with the Sox acquiring players in June and July.

From a business stand point what you said may be perfectly correct but with relations as strained as they are by a fan base angry and distrusting of management, that didn't need to be said.

Also, again to be frank, Sox fans didn't make the "first move" (i.e. coming out to the park in droves without the team winning) yesterday, they won't make the first move today and they aren't going to make the first move tomorrow. It's never going to happen and anybody who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

Threats, throwing down the gauntlet, and not being willing to compete with the Cubs is not going to get fans into Comiskey Park.

If management would take the risk, raise payroll comparable to a team representing the 3rd largest market in the country and give their fans hope that they can actually win a championship, instead of 'settling' for maybe winning the weakest division in baseball, you'd have to beat fans away with a stick.

I'm afraid the entire situation is at a stalemate but as in any normal business environment it is up to the company to put out a good product before consumers respond. Thinking any other way is delusional at best and arrogant at worst.

Mark Liptak
Sox fan for 43 years
mliptak1@ida.net

Theres no way I could top that Email. Excellent Job Lip,
KW's FlatScreen Monitor is scorching reading that ...

munchman33
01-27-2004, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I just sent this e-mail to Williams. I know it won't change a thing but no one can say I didn't try:

Dear Mr. Williams:

Hope you and your family had a good holiday season.

I just wanted to pass along a reaction to your published comments on White Sox.com. To be perfectly frank I thought you knew better. I'm referring to the quote about fans coming out in April, May having a direct connection with the Sox acquiring players in June and July.

From a business stand point what you said may be perfectly correct but with relations as strained as they are by a fan base angry and distrusting of management, that didn't need to be said.

Also, again to be frank, Sox fans didn't make the "first move" (i.e. coming out to the park in droves without the team winning) yesterday, they won't make the first move today and they aren't going to make the first move tomorrow. It's never going to happen and anybody who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

Threats, throwing down the gauntlet, and not being willing to compete with the Cubs is not going to get fans into Comiskey Park.

If management would take the risk, raise payroll comparable to a team representing the 3rd largest market in the country and give their fans hope that they can actually win a championship, instead of 'settling' for maybe winning the weakest division in baseball, you'd have to beat fans away with a stick.

I'm afraid the entire situation is at a stalemate but as in any normal business environment it is up to the company to put out a good product before consumers respond. Thinking any other way is delusional at best and arrogant at worst.

Mark Liptak
Sox fan for 43 years
mliptak1@ida.net

Nice Lip, though I doubt it will change much.

You say the fans will never change their stance. I say management never will. I hope to god one of us is wrong! :(:

Lip Man 1
01-27-2004, 06:59 PM
Munchman:

It doesn't have to be a stalemate forever. Uncle Jerry is going to be 68 remember.

Or let's put it another way, pure logic says it's much easier for one individual (Uncle Jerry) to change his mind, then perhaps a million or so fans to collectively change theirs.

as Mister Spock would say "I fail to understand the illogical actions of Jerry Reinsdorf in connection with his business and his fan base..."

Lip

gosox41
01-27-2004, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Munchman:

It doesn't have to be a stalemate forever. Uncle Jerry is going to be 68 remember.

Or let's put it another way, pure logic says it's much easier for one individual (Uncle Jerry) to change his mind, then perhaps a million or so fans to collectively change theirs.

as Mister Spock would say "I fail to understand the illogical actions of Jerry Reinsdorf in connection with his business and his fan base..."

Lip

Does KW ever respond to these e-mails? Just curious as to what he says.

Bob

Chisox_cali
01-27-2004, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Theres no way I could top that Email. Excellent Job Lip,
KW's FlatScreen Monitor is scorching reading that ...

I'd say the chances of him actually reading the e-mail are slim and none, no wait just none.

And a response that's not a "Thanks for your interest...we can't answer everyone personally" at less than zero.

Chisox_cali
01-27-2004, 07:30 PM
I'd also like to go on record as saying that any kind of protest at SoxFest is a BAD idea.

All it's gonna accomplish is feeding people like Mariotti and other "bias" Chicago media fodder on how bad Sox fans are. "Cub fans would never(have never) protest their team, they love their team" etc.

And it won't faze KW, JR, or anybody and probably get you kicked out.

There is literally nothing you can do short of convincing every Sox fan in the city of chicago not to attend or watch one Sox game.

Lip Man 1
01-27-2004, 07:58 PM
Bob:

He's never responded to me I don't know about anybody else.

Lip

TornLabrum
01-27-2004, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
According to a lot of people around here, today there about nothing but JR making his money on a limited budget (if you choose to belive that, and I think you do to an extent.)

You can still be a Sox fan and watch on TV and not support SoxFest. Nothing wrong with devoting a good deal of time to this team, but just finding a way not to do it financially, especially if you believe JR is just running this team to make a ton of money.

Bob

Except, as I pointed out, I'm on the executive board of the Windy City Sox Fans (not affiliated with the Chicago White Sox). We raise money for Chicago Baseball Cancer Charities. We have a booth at SoxFest to sign up new members and to raise money through our "pencil pull." I have to be there. In fact, I'll be there by 11:00 a.m. Friday.

gosox41
01-27-2004, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
I'd also like to go on record as saying that any kind of protest at SoxFest is a BAD idea.

All it's gonna accomplish is feeding people like Mariotti and other "bias" Chicago media fodder on how bad Sox fans are. "Cub fans would never(have never) protest their team, they love their team" etc.

And it won't faze KW, JR, or anybody and probably get you kicked out.

There is literally nothing you can do short of convincing every Sox fan in the city of chicago not to attend or watch one Sox game.

I can't even convince a lot of people here to go, and they all seem to bash JR whenever they can.

I hope one to day to develop a product that is cheaply made then I can alienate my customers, raise prices, and lower the quality of the product even more and have 90% of my customers hate my guts yet still spend money.

I forgot it's different when it involves a sports team

Actually it's not. The money is still green and flowing to the hated person and the fans paying it are slowly proving PT Barnum to be correct.

Bob

TornLabrum
01-27-2004, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
We are talking about a team that was 10 games under .500 at one point! What do you think they should have drawn?

For the quality of ball they played for 2/3 of the season? A whole lot less than 1.9 million.

gosox41
01-27-2004, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
Except, as I pointed out, I'm on the executive board of the Windy City Sox Fans (not affiliated with the Chicago White Sox). We raise money for Chicago Baseball Cancer Charities. We have a booth at SoxFest to sign up new members and to raise money through our "pencil pull." I have to be there. In fact, I'll be there by 11:00 a.m. Friday.

That I can understand since it's for a good cause. It's the going to Sox games part I don't get, especially for those who hate JR and how he runs the team.

I guess I won't understand because I don't have the conflicting emotion of loving the Sox but hating the ownership. But then again, I also don't like to sink my money into bad investments and that includes everything from losing games to helping JR get richer while he runs the team in the ground.

Bob

Iwritecode
01-28-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
For the quality of ball they played for 2/3 of the season? A whole lot less than 1.9 million.

In my last post I was agreeing with you and asking Munchman what he thought we should have drawn if 1.9 was "really low".

I also agree with this post. I find it incredible that they drew as much as they did last year.

One would think the fans would be rewarded a little more huh?

minastirith67
01-28-2004, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
You just described me to a "T". I will always follow the White Sox on TV, in the press, and by posting on Sox-related messageboards regardless of my personal fiscal stand. But I just cannot stomach handing over one more dime to JR, until he sells or until it is deserved, after this incredibly disappointing offseason, the White Flag Trade, his leading-the-owners charge in 1994, etc. JR has done more to break my heart during his ownership than he has done to make me proud that I am a White Sox fan. Enough is enough.


By watching the game on TV, aren't you lending support to Reinsdorf because of television ratings and advertisers?

gosox41
01-28-2004, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by minastirith67
By watching the game on TV, aren't you lending support to Reinsdorf because of television ratings and advertisers?

But not as much as you may think. The Sox actually had great TV ratings when they win. I don't know how TV ratings work, but I thought I read that adding .1% on to a rating was like adding 22,000 TV's. So pretty much if the Sox average attendence stayed home and watched the games on their own seperate TV's (ie me and my wife go to games together, but instead I watched TV in the living room and she in the bedroom) then you're adding just over .1%.

Now that number mayadd to increased advertising revenue, but it won't make up the difference of the amt. of money JR received by having 22K fans in the ball park, the 5000 cars or so in the lots, who knows how many overpriced hot dogs and beers, etc.

Bob

voodoochile
01-28-2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by minastirith67
By watching the game on TV, aren't you lending support to Reinsdorf because of television ratings and advertisers?

Only if you are part of the Nielsen polling group. The rest of us can watch whatever we want and no one is the wiser... :D:

voodoochile
01-28-2004, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
But not as much as you may think. The Sox actually had great TV ratings when they win. I don't know how TV ratings work, but I thought I read that adding .1% on to a rating was like adding 22,000 TV's. So pretty much if the Sox average attendence stayed home and watched the games on their own seperate TV's (ie me and my wife go to games together, but instead I watched TV in the living room and she in the bedroom) then you're adding just over .1%.

Now that number mayadd to increased advertising revenue, but it won't make up the difference of the amt. of money JR received by having 22K fans in the ball park, the 5000 cars or so in the lots, who knows how many overpriced hot dogs and beers, etc.

Bob

Those numbers have got to be national ratings. There aren't 22M households in the Chicago area. The Sox are rarely broadcast nationally. I am sure a local point is much much lower.