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View Full Version : trade proposed by downey in cubune


habibharu
01-24-2004, 04:00 PM
hurt to LA for perez and cora. i think this a a stupid trade. alex cora blows.

jabrch
01-24-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
hurt to LA for perez and cora. i think this a a stupid trade. alex cora blows.

So does Joey, but he is one of our coaches! This won't happen - not even close. We'd have no interest in moving Frank and getting back a mediocre SP. Frank has a no-trade clause and would have no interest in Dodger Stadium (his power numbers would fall quickly).

That is silly.

soxfan26
01-24-2004, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
hurt to LA for perez and cora. i think this a a stupid trade. alex cora blows.

Please. Now make it Konerko for Perez and...

habibharu
01-24-2004, 04:07 PM
well according to downey, perez is as good as buehrle maybe better:

Would the Sox please excuse me if I pitch a trade? Frank Thomas to the Dodgers for pitcher Odalis Perez and infielder Alex Cora.

L.A. desperately needs a right-handed bat. Perez is every bit as good a lefty as Mark Buehrle, maybe better. Cora is an underrated hitter and a great glove man who can start at second and fill in for error-prone Jose Valentin at short. His brother Joey Cora is now a Sox coach.

I know Thomas still has a following here, but I honestly believe Chicago would get the best of such a swap. And he can play first base a lot better for L.A., better than Shawn Green can, if you ask me, which you didn't.

Jjav829
01-24-2004, 04:12 PM
But he has a passion for sports!

Mike Downey is the same dumbass who thought the Bears should have kept Dick Jauron because "the team never quit on him".

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-24-2004, 04:18 PM
that's awful. trading the best player in the history of the white sox for some average pitcher and some throw in. no one would go to white sox games this season if they even thought about that

chisoxmike
01-24-2004, 04:20 PM
only from the tribune.

JRIG
01-24-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
Cora is an underrated hitter and a great glove man who can start at second and fill in for error-prone Jose Valentin at short. His brother Joey Cora is now a Sox coach.


The only way Cora is could be considered an underrated hitter is if he were compared to Rey Sanchez. The only two years he's gotten over 400 at bats he's put up these lines:

.217/.285/.306
.249/.287/.338

Is is possible to underrate that?

Dadawg_77
01-24-2004, 05:21 PM
Kenny isn't a smart baseball person and seems to hold grudges, right now he doesn't like Frank. So the dumbass will trade him to just to do it. And we wonder why this team has fallen.

RKMeibalane
01-24-2004, 05:47 PM
Let's see here:

1. Los Angeles is a National League team.

2. There is no DH in the National League, so Frank will play 1B.

3. Frank hits well when he plays 1B.

4. Frank would have a chance to win another MVP award.

5. If Frank wins the MVP with another team, Kenny Williams will look bad.

6. Sox fans will be angry.

This represents a logical sequence of events that could unfold if Frank is traded. If I were Williams, I might be more concerned about filling the other holes this team has, as opposed to exacting some form of vengence on Frank.

npdempse
01-24-2004, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Frank has a no-trade clause and would have no interest in Dodger Stadium (his power numbers would fall quickly).


I thought Frank had made noise that LA was one of the few places he'd be willing to go if he ever left the Sox. Didn't he talk to them briefly before signing with the Sox again last season?

Deadguy
01-24-2004, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by npdempse
I thought Frank had made noise that LA was one of the few places he'd be willing to go if he ever left the Sox. Didn't he talk to them briefly before signing with the Sox again last season?

He's moved out to Vegas, so it would make sense for Frank to move to a west coast team.

KW has made it no secret that he doesn't want Thomas on this team. He invoked the DSC, he attempted to trade Thomas in July of 2002, but was blocked by JR, and he was quoted this off season as hoping the Sox could have a 1B/DH combination of Konerko and Johnson.

Thomas has a mutual hatred of KW, and supposedly said he would not return to the Sox if KW was still GM in 2004.

Thomas has also stated that he wants to play 140 games at 1b in 2004, and that isn't going to happen on the White Sox as long as Paul Konerko is on the roster.

KW attempted to put Thomas' name in a bunch of hypothetical deals this offseason, but they were all squashed down.

The only thing that's keeping Thomas around, IMO, is his mutual loyalty with Reinsdorf and his comfort zone in Chicago. Otherwise, I honestly think he wouldn't mind being traded.

I'd be open to a trade of Thomas, but only if it improved this team, and this trade doesn't do that.

gogosoxgogo
01-24-2004, 08:51 PM
What a stupid trade. That will never happen. KW and Frank may not get along, but Kenny won't ship off the best hitter in Sox history for a mediocre pitcher.

munchman33
01-24-2004, 09:55 PM
With all the upside Frank has, he only makes $6 million this year. There is no way Kenny would trade him, unless he gets an unbelievable offer for him. This deal is nowhere close.

JJAustin69
01-24-2004, 10:50 PM
Looks like Downey got a little too baked in that California sun. I can't believe that guy gets paid to write that drivel.

LATruBlue
01-25-2004, 03:04 AM
Man, I guess I'm not keeping up on the "rumors" regarding my Dodgers like I thought I was. Anyway....

I can't see KW doing this deal. I know some folks has criticize his judgement but no way does he do this deal.

Also, I wouldn't characterize Perez as a mediocre or average pitcher although he didn't have a great season last year.

Here is what one poster from the Dodger board said about Perez for those of you who are not as familiar with his tenure with the Dodgers.

Keep Odalis! From the signing announcement last week:
"Odalis is one of the better young left-handers in the game," said Evans. "He has accomplished so much in his career already that people sometimes forget that he is only 26 years old. He is a very competitive ballplayer and plays the game with a great deal of passion."

Perez, has established himself as one of the top young left-handers in the Majors, posting 27 victories and a 3.69 ERA over the past two seasons. His 27 wins the last two seasons rank tied for the third most for a left-hander in the National League behind only Randy Johnson and Al Leiter and tied with Tom Glavine. The total is also the 10th best amongst lefties in the Majors in that period.

Perez was 15-10 in 2002 and 12-12 in 2003, marking the first time a Dodger left-hander had registered 12 wins or more in consecutive seasons since Fernando Valenzuela accomplished the feat in 1986-87.

Last season, Perez held the opposition to two earned runs or less in 14 of his 30 starts and pitched in 11 one-run games. (Note: That's two runs or less in nearly half his starts in what was considered an off year! Any offense at all and he wins at least 15 games.)

During his first season with the Dodgers in 2002, Perez posted a 3.00 ERA and was selected to play in his first Major League All-Star Game. His 15 wins that season were the most by a Dodger lefty since Valenzuela in 1986 (21). He finished fourth in the NL in ERA and fifth in complete games, twice tossing one-hit shutouts.

I know we need bats, but I don't like this trade. I like Odalis!


Not to mention that he also threw a no hitter during that time.

Of course, I expect many of you to disagree with his assessment but that's ok.

Now, Alex Cora on the other hand......can you say weak stick? He is as slick a fielder as they come at ss/2b but we cannot afford his bat in what is already a pathetic batting order. Can turn the dp with no prob.

I don't know what to believe right now. Rumor has it that Perez, Hanrahan and maybe Thurston are being shipped to the Brewers for Geoff Jenkins and Spivey according to Dan Patrick on ESPN Radio. This trade scenario is running rampant on the Dodger board, oddly though, not on the Brewer board. Sounds like Evans is waiting to see who blinks first or maybe he is just seeing things.

doublem23
01-25-2004, 03:25 AM
We need a tag of Downey. What a jackass.

jabrch
01-25-2004, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by npdempse
I thought Frank had made noise that LA was one of the few places he'd be willing to go if he ever left the Sox. Didn't he talk to them briefly before signing with the Sox again last season?


I can't see it. Frank is a stathound and wouldn't want to see his HR production slide like it would at Chavez Ravine. Also, I don't know that he really wants to play the field 150 games a year.

jabrch
01-25-2004, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
KW has made it no secret that he doesn't want Thomas on this team. He invoked the DSC, he attempted to trade Thomas in July of 2002, but was blocked by JR, and he was quoted this off season as hoping the Sox could have a 1B/DH combination of Konerko and Johnson.


He invoked the DSC because Frank's performance merited it. KW and JR took the opportunity to negotiate Franks number down a bit - and to change his payment schedule to benefit the team.

Does KW dislike Frank? Probably. Frank hasn't returned calls all offseason from his GM or his manager. I don't blame either of them for being pissed at him.

I'd trade Frank if it helped the team, but this deal doesn't qualify for that.

Cora - harumph...I don't like the fact that we have 1 of the Coras here - I surely don't want a second one. I wonder if JR is as DUMB as Big Joey?

Deadguy
01-25-2004, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
I can't see it. Frank is a stathound and wouldn't want to see his HR production slide like it would at Chavez Ravine. Also, I don't know that he really wants to play the field 150 games a year.

In 3 games at Chavez Ravine last season, Frank went 6 for 9 with 2 homeuns, a double, three walks, and three RBIs.

Based on that, why would Frank think his production is going to tumble as a result of playing half his games there?

And he wants to play 140+ games at 1st base, mainly because he knows there is a bias against DHs and the HOF.

Deadguy
01-25-2004, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
He invoked the DSC because Frank's performance merited it. KW and JR took the opportunity to negotiate Franks number down a bit - and to change his payment schedule to benefit the team.

KW invoked it without discussing it with JR first. I don't disagree with it, but considering he's supposed to be a puppet of the ownership, both Einhorn and Reinsdorf were pretty upset with him.

Does KW dislike Frank? Probably. Frank hasn't returned calls all offseason from his GM or his manager. I don't blame either of them for being pissed at him.

KW brought this up in a radio show to set up Thomas for more controversy and criticism from the fans. The fact that the GM of the team is purposely trying to set up the greatest player in franchise history for negative PR is proof enough that he is rather unprofessional, and has no clue how to market this team in a more favorable light. He could have said "No comment", but he wants Thomas to be bashed.

Thomas isn't returning KW's phone calls because he doesn't like KW. There's no cause and effect relationship between KW disliking Frank as a result of this incident alone, because their hatred for each other stems from something far before this.

Thomas is returning phone calls from Reinsdorf and people he does want to talk to. He's under no obligation to return phone calls from KW if he doesn't want to. It's the off season.

RKMeibalane
01-25-2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
KW invoked it without discussing it with JR first. I don't disagree with it, but considering he's supposed to be a puppet of the ownership, both Einhorn and Reinsdorf were pretty upset with him.

Yes, they were. Reinsdorf was extremely upset with Williams after the DSC was invoked. That was one of the many reasons why JR was willing to negotiate a new contract with Frank. There was also a rumor floating around early in the 2003 season that Eddie Einhorn was so irritated with KW that he confronted him and told him to stop interfering in situations that didn't concern him, which Williams had apparently been doing for some time. The only examples I can think of stem from the 2002 season, when Williams stuck his nose in the middle of the Thomas-Konerko spat, and when he called a post-game meeting after a loss in Detroit, knocking over the buffet table and calling players bitches and mother****ers. I'm sure he's done more than this, but I can't remember what exactly.

Hangar18
01-25-2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy


Thomas has also stated that he wants to play 140 games at 1b in 2004, and that isn't going to happen on the White Sox as long as Paul Konerko is on the roster.



Why wouldnt This Happen? The very first thing I do as manager is Declare Frank Thomas our FirstBaseman for 140 games, while the slow-footed Paul Konerko can DH. Thomas was on fire
while at 1B, but our stupid Mgr, kept DH'ing him .....

jabrch
01-25-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
In 3 games at Chavez Ravine last season, Frank went 6 for 9 with 2 homeuns, a double, three walks, and three RBIs.



3 Games? Um, do you think that's a valid sample to say he will hit there all season?

It is a bigger, spacious park where balls don't travel so well. Look at hitter and pitcher splits there. If you think 3 games is a legit sample to extrapolate out - then this is a silly discussion.

Deadguy
01-25-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
3 Games? Um, do you think that's a valid sample to say he will hit there all season?

It is a bigger, spacious park where balls don't travel so well. Look at hitter and pitcher splits there. If you think 3 games is a legit sample to extrapolate out - then this is a silly discussion.

Where did I state that this was a large enough sample size to declare that Thomas would put up big numbers in L.A.?

You were questioning the fact that Thomas is a stat hound, and would not want play there because he'd think his power numbers would diminish, however after his performance there last year, it's doubtful that Thomas believes playing there would hurt his stats.

I can't get inside Thomas' head, but I'd be willing to bet he wouldn't rule out playing in L.A. for the reason you stated.

jabrch
01-25-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Where did I state that this was a large enough sample size to declare that Thomas would put up big numbers in L.A.?

You were questioning the fact that Thomas is a stat hound, and would not want play there because he'd think his power numbers would diminish, however after his performance there last year, it's doubtful that Thomas believes playing there would hurt his stats.

I can't get inside Thomas' head, but I'd be willing to bet he wouldn't rule out playing in L.A. for the reason you stated.

Originally posted by Deadguy
[B]In 3 games at Chavez Ravine last season, Frank went 6 for 9 with 2 homeuns, a double, three walks, and three RBIs.

Based on that, why would Frank think his production is going to tumble as a result of playing half his games there?

You gave his stats in 3 games. You asked why he thinks his production would tumble. Unless you gave me two completely irrelevant pieces of information about Frank, I had to assume that your point was that it was a fair assumption to make that since Frank had 3 good days in LA that he can hit in LA or that, at a minimum, he wouldn't think his stats were going to fall. If that was not your point, what was the purpose of giving me his stats for a 3 game series?

Frank is a smart enough baseball player to understand what Chavez Ravine, over the course of 81 games, would do to his stats. Using your three game stretch, we know Frank wouldn't want to go to Arlington cuz he hit .143 with 0 HRs in 2 games there.

Deadguy
01-25-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
You gave his stats in 3 games. You asked why he thinks his production would tumble. Unless you gave me two completely irrelevant pieces of information about Frank, I had to assume that your point was that it was a fair assumption to make that since Frank had 3 good days in LA that he can hit in LA or that, at a minimum, he wouldn't think his stats were going to fall. If that was not your point, what was the purpose of giving me his stats for a 3 game series?

The purpose of it was to show that the only experience Frank has had playing in Chavez Ravine hardly put a damper on his stats, so I seriously doubt he'd rule out playing there because it might have a negative effect on his production.

[/b]Frank is a smart enough baseball player to understand what Chavez Ravine, over the course of 81 games, would do to his stats. Using your three game stretch, we know Frank wouldn't want to go to Arlington cuz he hit .143 with 0 HRs in 2 games there. [/B]

We're talking about a player who in 1997 stated that Comiskey Park had probably cost him 100 homers over the course of his career, as a result of the swirling winds. If he truly believed that Comiskey was that detrimental to his production, then why did he sign a contract extension through 2006 that offseason?

Thomas has an ego, and I seriously doubt he'd rule out playing anywhere because he thinks the home park isn't a good hitters park.

The only comments I've seen from Frank in regards to stadiums and hitting is that Camden Yards is his favorite place to hit, and Yankee Stadium is probably his least favorite, since it isn't very favorable towards RH hitters.