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habibharu
01-24-2004, 12:49 PM
besides the usual guys (mags,lee,frank,buehrle) i think the most important player is jon garland. we've all heard how this guy has a lot of talent and that his problems are between the ears. well this year, i think that he finally has to deliver or we gotta get rid of him. he's gotta get that ERA under 4 to at least around 3.7 or 3.8. otherwise theres no use in having a 3 starter who's gonna go .500 with a 4.7 ERA on your team.

nodiggity59
01-24-2004, 12:56 PM
Agreed. I never minded him as a #4 but now he's gotta step up or get outta town.

jeremyb1
01-24-2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by nodiggity59
Agreed. I never minded him as a #4 but now he's gotta step up or get outta town.

Haha. That's one of the most illogical arguments I've ever heard. Because he now pitches third in the rotation his prior performances which were fine will no longer be acceptable? Huh?!

jeremyb1
01-24-2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
besides the usual guys (mags,lee,frank,buehrle) i think the most important player is jon garland. we've all heard how this guy has a lot of talent and that his problems are between the ears. well this year, i think that he finally has to deliver or we gotta get rid of him. he's gotta get that ERA under 4 to at least around 3.7 or 3.8. otherwise theres no use in having a 3 starter who's gonna go .500 with a 4.7 ERA on your team.

We could have a number three starter with an era of 5.3. Would that be better?

ewokpelts
01-24-2004, 01:00 PM
my girlfriend thinks he's "cute"

habibharu
01-24-2004, 01:01 PM
all im saying is that we should give someone from the minors a chance next year if this guy cant get his ERA under 4.

StepsInSC
01-24-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
my girlfriend thinks he's "cute"

That settles it. No matter what, he stays.

TaylorStSox
01-24-2004, 01:16 PM
I don't agree with having an a set time that he has to perform by. Last year concerned me. He had some brilliant performances the previous year and I was one of those guys that really thought he'd break out. I still think he'll be a number 2 in this league. He's still cheap and young. We should have a little more patience IMO.

soxfan26
01-24-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
theres no use in having a 3 starter who's gonna go .500 with a 4.7 ERA on your team.

Garland has had 2 consitent season of a .500 record, 10+ wins, 190 IP, and a 4.5 ERA. Has he failed to meet expectations? I think for most Sox fans he has. However, Garland's numbers can't be that far off from league averages for the last two seasons. The Sox got all of that for just over $650,000 in salary. Now that he just signed a $2.3m dollar deal, we need to see more consistency from him, and IMO he needs to step up and be our #3.

There is always a use for a guy who can pitch 190+ innings and win 10+ games.

jeremyb1
01-24-2004, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
all im saying is that we should give someone from the minors a chance next year if this guy cant get his ERA under 4.

Why? You think we have three pitchers to fill in the 3, 4, and 5 slots that can post an ERA below 4?

SoxxoS
01-24-2004, 02:16 PM
If this guy wasn't so touted, there would be a lot less heat on him. Since he was labeled as the next coming of Kevin Brown, he was placed on too high of petestal to begin with, and is stuggling to meet those rediculously high expectations.

That being said, he has the stuff and this is make or break for him IMO. I am expecting a 4.00-4.25 ERA, 12-15 wins, 1.25 WHIP from Jon this year.

chisoxmike
01-24-2004, 02:22 PM
The Sox need him to step up, and not have his 1st inning blow up like he does a few times a season. If Garland can be above .500 (and not just by three or four games) and a ERA lower than 4, the White Sox can have a pretty good chance of winning a divison title while he's on the staff.

habibharu
01-24-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by chisoxmike
The Sox need him to step up, and not have his 1st inning blow up like he does a few times a season. If Garland can be above .500 (and not just by three or four games) and a ERA lower than 4, the White Sox can have a pretty good chance of winning a divison title while he's on the staff.

exactly my point. we know for the most part what we're gonnna get from MB and ELO. this guy is the wild card. is he gonna be average like he has been? or is he gonna finally step up and show us that talent that farm-io has been touting about

chisoxmike
01-24-2004, 03:39 PM
:jerry
"I expected more from him."

:jon
"I don't care"

:ozzie:
"I'll whip Garland into shape!!!! Along with everybody else! Thomas will bunt, Harris will run, Rowand will bat .350, world series here we come!"

voodoochile
01-24-2004, 04:32 PM
I think that is Garland's main problems. There are too many thoughts IN his head. He needs to stop thinking so much and just pitch.

Jjav829
01-24-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I think that is Garland's main problems. There are too many thoughts IN his head. He needs to stop thinking so much and just pitch.

Heh, I think it's the opposite. I'm not sure he has a thought in his head. He's probably floating...

pearso66
01-24-2004, 04:50 PM
I agree with Voodoo, I believe that Jon is thinking too much, and doesnt just throw it. He try's to overanalyze, especially when he gets in trouble. I also think he aims, which is part of the whole thinking too much. He just needs to take advice from Buehrle and get it and throw it.

RichFitztightly
01-24-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS

That being said, he has the stuff and this is make or break for him IMO. I am expecting a 4.00-4.25 ERA, 12-15 wins, 1.25 WHIP from Jon this year.

I'm down with these numbers. Though I'd go a step further and hope for and ERA around 3.75-4.00. If you're shooting for respectability, you gotta be below 4.00.

As far as his psychology goes, I'd say he just gets complacent. He's not a "Type A" personality. Schilling gets 2 strikes on a guy and then really starts to work. Jon gets 2 strikes on a guy and lets up. It almost seems as though he feels his job is done when he gets 2 strikes. Then whatever happens next is just fate.

pearso66
01-24-2004, 04:58 PM
He definitally shouldnt be picking at corners, or wasting a pitch to get a strike out. Go after the batter, I hate seeing a guy go 0-2 and then the pitcher, not just Garland, but others in our rotation and bullpen, try to pick corners, and end up 3-2 or even walk them.

SoxxoS
01-24-2004, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
He definitally shouldnt be picking at corners, or wasting a pitch to get a strike out. Go after the batter, I hate seeing a guy go 0-2 and then the pitcher, not just Garland, but others in our rotation and bullpen, try to pick corners, and end up 3-2 or even walk them.

I think Garland might be one of the worst, if not THE worst, pitcher with the count at 0-2. He usually wastes the first pitch. Then the second pitch doesn't come close. Now it's 2-2. Then the batter will foul off a few pitches and eventually Garland will throw a pitch nowhere close, making it full. Then there is no advantage to the pitcher anymore. He needs to develop that killer instinct if he wants to consistantly throw to his ability.

I, for one, remember that May Day in 2002 against Boston...

raul12
01-24-2004, 05:39 PM
I want Matt Karchner back!

It'd be nice if he finally steps up consistently, but hopefully not having JM's tinkering influence on him. Like someone else said, he's gotta finish off hitters and trust his stuff and not try to "aim his pitches".

depy48
01-24-2004, 06:33 PM
i've always liked garland, and i have supported him every year he pitched for the sox. i know he'll break out..and when that happens i'll throw in my brother's face!!! garland has the good stuff and all he needs is poise, and as he matures, i think he'll have it. he'll for sure be on my fantasy team!

poorme
01-24-2004, 07:41 PM
He'll probably mature just in time for free agency. Does he throw anything but that sinking fastball? All his pitches look the same to me.