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TommyJohn
01-23-2004, 06:10 AM
My favorite columnist must be on the you-know-what. He
unloaded on the Sox, Sox fans, and Bartman. Pretty good
trifecta. I'm surprised he was able to twist it all into one
column.

Remember that column last year about how Sox fans were
better than Cub fans? Well, I was one person who was not
converted by that drivel. Now it is perfectly clear why I wasn't.
Now, it is worse to be a White Sox fan than to see your team
choke in the playoffs and stall on signing Maddux or I-Rod.

I don't know. I can accept this stuff coming from a White Sox fan.
But him? No way. This is one reason I had that meltdown after
the Cubs beat Atlanta and one reason I was so overjoyed
beyond reason when the Cubs blew the NLCS.

I do accept that the other team is in better shape for 2004
and that the Sox have done nothing to improve. That's the
worst part about it. That come October, 2004 he won't be
having those words he wrote shoved down his throat.

:moron

Kane County is number 2! And forget what I wrote about you
scum Sox fans being better!! I take it all back!! Your team is
nothing and I'll make sure they remain that way!! HA!! HA!!

OH!! I almost forgot!! Death to that miserable wretch Bartman!!

hold2dibber
01-23-2004, 09:06 AM
I read the column and figured some people here would take him to task. But I don't disagree with anything he said. I mean, he's being sarcastic and using hyperbole when he says the Sox are closer in stature to the Kane County Cougars than the Cubs, so you can't get too hyped up on that comparison, because his basic point is absolutely on the money. As many Sox fans have long feared, the Cubs appear to be waking up from their moronic refusal to spend the gobs of $ they're making to field a winner. And as a result, the Cubs' stranglehold on this community is increasing, made worse by the fact that there are tumbleweeds blowing down 35th street. The timing of the Cubs ascension and the Sox complete failure to do anything to make anyone think they're trying to improve is substantially hastening the rapid deterioration of the Sox fan base and the Cubs ability to grab hold of the hearts and minds of every casual fan from Indianapolis to Iowa City. The Sox are an after-thought.

PINWHEELS
01-23-2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by TommyJohn
My favorite columnist must be on the you-know-what. He
unloaded on the Sox, Sox fans, and Bartman. Pretty good
trifecta. I'm surprised he was able to twist it all into one
column.

Remember that column last year about how Sox fans were
better than Cub fans? Well, I was one person who was not
converted by that drivel. Now it is perfectly clear why I wasn't.
Now, it is worse to be a White Sox fan than to see your team
choke in the playoffs and stall on signing Maddux or I-Rod.

I don't know. I can accept this stuff coming from a White Sox fan.
But him? No way. This is one reason I had that meltdown after
the Cubs beat Atlanta and one reason I was so overjoyed
beyond reason when the Cubs blew the NLCS.

I do accept that the other team is in better shape for 2004
and that the Sox have done nothing to improve. That's the
worst part about it. That come October, 2004 he won't be
having those words he wrote shoved down his throat.

:moron

Kane County is number 2! And forget what I wrote about you
scum Sox fans being better!! I take it all back!! Your team is
nothing and I'll make sure they remain that way!! HA!! HA!!

OH!! I almost forgot!! Death to that miserable wretch Bartman!! The Line That says the Sox are closer to the Kane County Cougars Than the Cubs REALLY PISSED ME OFF! I HATE THE CUBS, And Mariotti is fare weather fan.

Hullett_Fan
01-23-2004, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
But I don't disagree with anything he said....basic point is absolutely on the money. As many Sox fans have long feared, the Cubs appear to be waking up from their moronic refusal to spend the gobs of $ they're making to field a winner. And as a result, the Cubs' stranglehold on this community is increasing, made worse by the fact that there are tumbleweeds blowing down 35th street. The timing of the Cubs ascension and the Sox complete failure to do anything to make anyone think they're trying to improve is substantially hastening the rapid deterioration of the Sox fan base and the Cubs ability to grab hold of the hearts and minds of every casual fan from Indianapolis to Iowa City. The Sox are an after-thought.


You're right on the money Dibber and so is Mariotti. The Sox are in trouble. I said before last season that '03 was the year to bring a WS trophy to the South Side because the Cubs are on the rise (depth of arms in minors/majors, willingness to spend money, etc.) and now it's too late. It's going to be a long '04 season. :angry:

Frater Perdurabo
01-23-2004, 09:24 AM
I can't wait until Donald Trump buys the Sox, buys the Sun-Times and then fires Mariotti.

Really, Mariotti is just a windsock. A sarcastic malcontent blowhard windsock. He does what he is paid to do.

34rancher
01-23-2004, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by PINWHEELS
The Line That says the Sox are closer to the Kane County Cougars Than the Cubs REALLY PISSED ME OFF! I HATE THE CUBS, And Mariotti is fare weather fan.

How did we ever beat them 4 out of 6 last year? With such massive inferiority. I mean their division is so adept to sending teams to the world series and all.



Overall though, it is like I learned in high school, the popular peole are always the biggest losers in the long run.

rdivaldi
01-23-2004, 09:53 AM
While the column did contain some truth/fact, let's not give Kotex Boy too much credit.

Isn't it pretty obvious that the article was completely unecessary, and was only written to promote Kotex Boy's "secret agenda"?

There's no reason to write that column...

quade36
01-23-2004, 10:00 AM
there are more reasons not to like Mariotti then just his fair weatherness. It goes for any column he writes. He is just so negative all the time. As a reader, I try to look at positives of my teams, even if they are doing bad. He disses them whether they are doing good or bad.

SEALgep
01-23-2004, 10:00 AM
I like Jay about 75% of the time. This isn't one of those times. The Sox underperformed last year, the players know it, but that doesn't mean things won't turn around this year. The clear cut favorites last year have most of the team in tack. I wouldn't take what Jay has to say all the time worthwhile, he'll switch his tune if the Sox make some other move, or the Cubs fail to sign Maddux, or something. Not that any of those things will happen, but he just lives in the moment. He says not to over blow the Mr. Zero signing, but he's underestimating it. If Koch can get close to form, we'll have a better pen than the Cubs, no doubt.

kittle42
01-23-2004, 10:51 AM
Mariotti's column Tuesday was about how the Bulls can't stick with these young guys anymore. I would bet that he wrote at least one column in the past about what a great idea it was to have these guys around.

He does that stuff all the time.

Lip Man 1
01-23-2004, 12:39 PM
The truth hurts doesn't it gang?

The column reminded me a lot of what Hal has been saying (warning) Sox fans about their lack of popularity and interest.

Don't blame the messenger gang direct your barbs to the organization who put the franchise in this position in the first place.

By the way Steve Rosenbloom had some funny things in his column as well including printing a question from a Sox fan.

Lip

"Chicago has always been a Cubs town..."-- Jerry Reinsdorf ESPN Radio 1000 June 2002.

StepsInSC
01-23-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by 34rancher
How did we ever beat them 4 out of 6 last year? With such massive inferiority. I mean their division is so adept to sending teams to the world series and all.



Huh? Has any NL Central team gone to the WS since the realigning of MLB?

pudge
01-23-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
Huh? Has any NL Central team gone to the WS since the realigning of MLB?

Yeah, I think it was sarcasm. :)

pudge
01-23-2004, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I read the column and figured some people here would take him to task. But I don't disagree with anything he said. I mean, he's being sarcastic and using hyperbole when he says the Sox are closer in stature to the Kane County Cougars than the Cubs, so you can't get too hyped up on that comparison, because his basic point is absolutely on the money. As many Sox fans have long feared, the Cubs appear to be waking up from their moronic refusal to spend the gobs of $ they're making to field a winner. And as a result, the Cubs' stranglehold on this community is increasing, made worse by the fact that there are tumbleweeds blowing down 35th street. The timing of the Cubs ascension and the Sox complete failure to do anything to make anyone think they're trying to improve is substantially hastening the rapid deterioration of the Sox fan base and the Cubs ability to grab hold of the hearts and minds of every casual fan from Indianapolis to Iowa City. The Sox are an after-thought.

Well, when the Cubs lose out to the Astros, and the Sox sneak in the play-offs thanks to a pathetic division, we won't be an after thought.... at least until we get swept in the first round.

hold2dibber
01-23-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
While the column did contain some truth/fact, let's not give Kotex Boy too much credit.

Isn't it pretty obvious that the article was completely unecessary, and was only written to promote Kotex Boy's "secret agenda"?

There's no reason to write that column...

The reason is to point out the fact that the Sox remarkable inactivity this offseason (other than letting a parade of free agents walk) coupled with the Cubs attempts to improve a team that was 5 outs away from a WS, is just widening the gap between the two franchises. That's newsworthy, in my opinion.

hold2dibber
01-23-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by SEALgep
I like Jay about 75% of the time. This isn't one of those times. The Sox underperformed last year, the players know it, but that doesn't mean things won't turn around this year. The clear cut favorites last year have most of the team in tack. I wouldn't take what Jay has to say all the time worthwhile, he'll switch his tune if the Sox make some other move, or the Cubs fail to sign Maddux, or something. Not that any of those things will happen, but he just lives in the moment. He says not to over blow the Mr. Zero signing, but he's underestimating it. If Koch can get close to form, we'll have a better pen than the Cubs, no doubt.

But to me, the point of the article wasn't really to analyze the potential fortunes of the two teams in '04, it was to note the discrepancy in the ability of the teams to connect with fans. The Cubs continue to do so. The Sox continue to alienate their fans and potential fans.

Frater Perdurabo
01-23-2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The truth hurts doesn't it gang?

The column reminded me a lot of what Hal has been saying (warning) Sox fans about their lack of popularity and interest.

Don't blame the messenger gang direct your barbs to the organization who put the franchise in this position in the first place.

By the way Steve Rosenbloom had some funny things in his column as well including printing a question from a Sox fan.

Lip

"Chicago has always been a Cubs town..."-- Jerry Reinsdorf ESPN Radio 1000 June 2002.

I don't have a problem with Mariotti taking the Sox to task for failing to improve the Sox.

My problem with Mariotti is that he doesn't have an ounce or originality or subtlety to him. He's just a windsock. He only parrots back what he thinks the prevailing wisdom is on a particular issue, with a few cute rhetorical twists, pop culture references and biting saracasm. His columns are predictably formulaic and follow the pattern of "paint by numbers" art. He slobbers over the Cubs and Sosa because he and his editors agree that yuppie Cubs fans represent a more affluent demographic.

Lip, you are a vastly better writer than Mariotti, as is Hal. In fact, most (if not all) of the WSI columnists are better than Mariotti.

joecrede
01-23-2004, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
But to me, the point of the article wasn't really to analyze the potential fortunes of the two teams in '04, it was to note the discrepancy in the ability of the teams to connect with fans. The Cubs continue to do so. The Sox continue to alienate their fans and potential fans.

True Dibber, but I submit it's easier to connect with people when you own a media conglomerate.

34rancher
01-23-2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
Huh? Has any NL Central team gone to the WS since the realigning of MLB?
Sorry, I forgot the Teal.

Also, the last team from that division to go to the WS was Cincinncati in 90.

rdivaldi
01-23-2004, 03:28 PM
The reason is to point out the fact that the Sox remarkable inactivity this offseason (other than letting a parade of free agents walk) coupled with the Cubs attempts to improve a team that was 5 outs away from a WS, is just widening the gap between the two franchises. That's newsworthy, in my opinion.

If you believe that, I have some fine real estate for sale on the corner of 35th & Shields you might be interested in buying.

The purpose of that article was to mock the Sox and their fans. If you haven't quite noticed by now that Kotex Boy hates JR, Sox fans, the neighborhood, etc., then it's time to open your eyes.

There was zero news in that tabloid piece of crap....

Foulke You
01-23-2004, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
[B]The purpose of that article was to mock the Sox and their fans. If you haven't quite noticed by now that Kotex Boy hates JR, Sox fans, the neighborhood, etc., then it's time to open your eyes.

There was zero news in that tabloid piece of crap....

Agreed. There was a certain "tone" to that article. It is one thing if he was saying how unfortunate it is about what Sox management has done. It was definitely done in a mocking way. In a "yeah Cubbies #1, man the Sox and their ridiculous fans suck" kinda way.

I agree with a previous poster who said that he just recycles old articles and changes the words around. Then when he is proven wrong, he'll write an article later saying how he was right all along. The only thing missing from that article was the classic Mariotti-ism: "In a perfect world..."

:moron
"In a perfect world, Sammy will be celebrating a World Series Championship at Wrigley with me on the field holding his hand and the very next day the Sox pack up and leave town."

rdivaldi
01-23-2004, 04:30 PM
Remember, we're the "Smut Sox"...

Lip Man 1
01-23-2004, 07:13 PM
Perhaps some of you don't know this story and whether you agree with it or not, it does provide some insight into WHY Jay is the way he is towards the Sox (personally I can't blame him but that is beside the point...)

Apparently a few years ago Uncle Jerry himself called the owners and publishes of the Sun Times to try to get Jay fired. I was never told the reason why Uncle Jerry, a man who on numerous occasions has stated he doesn't read or listen to the Chicago media, would take such interest as to personally call, but the bottom line is that in essence after the Sun Times people heard him out, they for all intents and purposes laughed at him before saying that they would not comply with his request.

Jay used to have a show on The Sporting News radio network and I am very good friends with Rob Wuczynski, the senior producer (he used to be Papa Joe's producer) who told me that Jay often talked about it.

Is Jay biased against the Sox? Probably and again I can't blame him. And please spare me the platitudes about how the media is supposed to be unbiased, that's an impossibility, because the media is composed of human beings and all humans are biased to some degree.

As long as Jay keeps attacking the real cause for the situation the team is currently in, he's OK with me.

Lip

joecrede
01-23-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Perhaps some of you don't know this story and whether you agree with it or not, it does provide some insight into WHY Jay is the way he is towards the Sox (personally I can't blame him but that is beside the point...)

Apparently a few years ago Uncle Jerry himself called the owners and publishes of the Sun Times to try to get Jay fired. I was never told the reason why Uncle Jerry, a man who on numerous occasions has stated he doesn't read or listen to the Chicago media, would take such interest as to personally call, but the bottom line is that in essence after the Sun Times people heard him out, they for all intents and purposes laughed at him before saying that they would not comply with his request.

Jay used to have a show on The Sporting News radio network and I am very good friends with Rob Wuczynski, the senior producer (he used to be Papa Joe's producer) who told me that Jay often talked about it.

Is Jay biased against the Sox? Probably and again I can't blame him. And please spare me the platitudes about how the media is supposed to be unbiased, that's an impossibility, because the media is composed of human beings and all humans are biased to some degree.

As long as Jay keeps attacking the real cause for the situation the team is currently in, he's OK with me.

Lip

Lip, to your knowledge has Jay ever spoken about his lengthy sabatical from the Sun-Times (I think it was in the late 90's) Don't be so quick to believe Sun-Times management laughed at Reinsdorf's request.

Lip Man 1
01-23-2004, 08:07 PM
Joe:

There is no connection. Jay left because of a serious health problem with one of his immediate family members. He briefly mentioned it when he came back to The Sporting News radio network thanking fans for their kind words and support. He didn't go into any other details but that is what Rob told me.

The Reinsdorf incident also took place a few years before Jay had his leave of absense.

If I had to guess it would have been in connection with the Albert Belle signing. Apparently he and Uncle Jerry got into a shouting match immediatly after the press conference ended. Uncle Jerry sought out Jay and started asking him in a loud voice, "what about this? How about this?" The reference being that Jay consistently kept accusing Uncle Jerry of not trying to win. Jay angerly replied back that this was a sham, Uncle Jerry was just getting revenge on other owners for settling the 94-95 labor impasse against his wishes.

Bottom line is that eight months after was White Flag and two years later Belle was gone but his signing raised salaries across the board.

Lip

joecrede
01-23-2004, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Joe:

There is no connection. Jay left because of a serious health problem with one of his immediate family members. He briefly mentioned it when he came back to The Sporting News radio network thanking fans for their kind words and support. He didn't go into any other details but that is what Rob told me.

The Reinsdorf incident also took place a few years before Jay had his leave of absense.

If I had to guess it would have been in connection with the Albert Belle signing. Apparently he and Uncle Jerry got into a shouting match immediatly after the press conference ended. Uncle Jerry sought out Jay and started asking him in a loud voice, "what about this? How about this?" The reference being that Jay consistently kept accusing Uncle Jerry of not trying to win. Jay angerly replied back that this was a sham, Uncle Jerry was just getting revenge on other owners for settling the 94-95 labor impasse against his wishes.

Bottom line is that eight months after was White Flag and two years later Belle was gone but his signing raised salaries across the board.

Lip

Lip, I've heard a different reason for Marriotti's time off. I didn't mean to infer that Reinsdorf had anything to do with it because he didn't, just that Marriotti might not have been a favorite of Sun-Times management at that time.

Lip Man 1
01-23-2004, 09:07 PM
Can you expound? I've never heard of this and I'd like to do some checking.

Because remember he not only wasn't writing for the Sun Times but he wasn't even doing his AM show on The Sporting News radio network. that would indicate to me more creedence to what Rob said about a family member seriously ill.

I mean the Sun Times didn't own Sporting News radio (then known as One On One sports) so they couldn't force them to not let him work.

Lip

TommyJohn
01-24-2004, 01:00 AM
There is an article in a back issue of the Chicago Reader that
said that in the mid '90's, a sports editor at the Sun-Times
demoted Mariotti to beat reporter, the purpose of which was
to try to get him to quit, I assume. The article also stated that
Rick Telander was originally hired to replace Mariotti as the
paper's main sports columnist. Then the editor who demoted Mariotti quit or was moved (can't recall which) and Mariotti
prevailed on the new boss to give him old job back, much to
Telander's disappointment. So the two work at the same job
but have no love for each other.

The "seriously ill family member" was I believe his wife. She
had a bout with cancer. I either read it, or heard it on the air.
It couldn't have been any big secret, because I heard it re-
ported in a media outlet. That was in 1999 or 2000 and was
not related to what happened in the '90's with Telander.
Again, this isn't stuff I've just heard, it has been reported.

So Jay has a problem with "Uncle Jerry." Boo hoo. Cry me a
river. It just goes to show that he can dish it out, but he can't
take it. How many "hard-hitting" articles has he written ripping
on someone? He has called for managers, coaches and players
to be fired. Turnabout is fair play, in my opinion.

Okay, so he is bitter to the day he dies about Reinsdorf, he will
obsessively, psychotically pursue a vendetta to the end of time.
Fair. "Uncle Jerry" should have known better than to take on
one of the greatest, most powerful men of the age. He will pay
the price. So why include the White Sox team and the fans as
part of this vendetta? What did they do? He has it in for the
"Tribsters" as well, but that doesn't stop him from gurgling with
joy whenever his Cubbies do something great. In 2000, he
couldn't wait for the Sox collapse to happen, and when it did,
he happily wrote them off as "the biggest fluke in Chicago
sports history." That's a lot of history, but then, "Jay" never
was a champion at maintaining his perspective level. Contrast that with 2003. He is now so busy obsessively trying to vilify Steve Bartman that he hasn't even mentioned Alex Gonzalez' error or Mark Prior's meltdown. That alone should drive home what petty and cruel bully he truly is.

As I said, I have no problem reading stuff like that from Hal
Vickery or Rich Lindberg. Why? They are White Sox fans,
first and foremost. They are overjoyed when the Sox win,
they hurt when they lose. They want to see the White Sox
succeed and become champions. Hal and other Sox fans have
no love lost for "The Chairman" but are able to root for the
Sox regardless.

Not so with Mariotti. His goal seems to be not to "run Reinsdorf out of town" ( a goal he stated on the air and in print) but to
help kill the franchise. How many times have we seen the
phrase "ill-conceived, poorly designed ballpark in a less-than
desirable neighborhood." Truth? Or advertising, with a dash of
panic-peddling to keep people away? How many times has he
mentioned the bad neighborhoods surrounding Wrigley Field or
the United Center? Go three blocks north of Wrigley, where
Sheridan turns westward, if you want to see "less-than-desir-
able."

I could go on, but my point is that Mariotti writes garbage and
is a sorry excuse for a "journalist." I can only hope that his
Javertesque obsession with killing the White Sox does not
succeed.

RichFitztightly
01-24-2004, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by TommyJohn

As I said, I have no problem reading stuff like that from Hal
Vickery or Rich Lindberg. Why? They are White Sox fans,
first and foremost. They are overjoyed when the Sox win,
they hurt when they lose. They want to see the White Sox
succeed and become champions. Hal and other Sox fans have
no love lost for "The Chairman" but are able to root for the
Sox regardless.



I agree totally. It's like one can complain and criticize one's own family, but if an outsider tries it... watch out. Even if that criticism is the exact same thing.

TornLabrum
01-24-2004, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by TommyJohn
As I said, I have no problem reading stuff like that from Hal
Vickery or Rich Lindberg.

I'm flattered to be even mentioned in the same breath as Rich.

Lip Man 1
01-24-2004, 01:29 PM
and here's what REALLY funny!

Jay starts his new radio show Monday on ESPN 1000 in the 9am to 11am time slot!

He gets to bash good ole' Uncle Jerry on his own flagship radio station!

That's beautiful, I'm sure Uncle Jerry tossed his breakfast prunes this morning when he heard about it in Arizona. (and you can bet your bottom dollar he was told!)

Lip

TommyJohn
01-24-2004, 11:21 PM
He's been on morning radio before, in the that time slot, and
bashed until his little heart was content. YAWN.

rdivaldi
01-25-2004, 11:44 AM
I can't imagine anyone will listen to him. Boers & Bernstein are my favorite show at the Score. There's no way Kotex Boy will be able to get any sort of following, except for the stupid people demographic...

Lip Man 1
01-26-2004, 01:15 PM
From John Jackson's column in the Sun-Times Monday:

But getting Mariotti on the air was a bigger challenge than you might expect. WMVP is the flagship station for the White Sox and Bulls, and Jerry Reinsdorf, the chairman of both organizations, traditionally has had vast influence over station management.

In fact, when Reinsdorf agreed to move both teams to WMVP in the mid-1990s, it was written into the contract that he would have a considerable say in on-air personalities -- and even could ask that they be taken off the air if they were too critical of his teams.

Reinsdorf's dislike for Mariotti is well-known. According to sources, Reinsdorf let it be known as recently as last week that he was not in favor of the move.
Reinsdorf, though, doesn't have the influence he once had. Before agreeing to purchase the station, Disney insisted that the clause giving Reinsdorf editorial input be weakened significantly.

So with all of those obstacles cleared, the show finally was ready to hit the air.

LOL I love it! Good hunting Jay.

Lip

joecrede
01-26-2004, 03:43 PM
How many times will Mariotti get radio shows in Chicago before the people who hire him realize that he is a ratings killer ...

quade36
01-26-2004, 03:47 PM
uh, I can't believe that when I read it...