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View Full Version : NY writer looks at Maggs and Loiaza as easy pickins'


hose
01-18-2004, 01:34 PM
The Sox are viewed as a non-contender by this NY writer and figures Reinsy to be dumping salary.



http://nypost.com/sports/mets/15870.htm

Rex Hudler
01-18-2004, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by hose
The Sox are viewed as a non-contender by this NY writer and figures Reinsy to be dumping salary.
http://nypost.com/sports/mets/15870.htm

The Sox are viewed as a non-contender by 3/4 of the people on their own message boards, so what's the big deal that somene else thinks it's possible too?

fquaye149
01-18-2004, 03:56 PM
apparently the sox are 8 to 1 odds to win the alcs...according to the 'bune this mornign

gosox3072
01-18-2004, 03:58 PM
I dont know if 8-1 is quite correct in my mind but we will still be a contender. we just need our players to play up to thier abilities.

jabrch
01-18-2004, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by fquaye149
apparently the sox are 8 to 1 odds to win the alcs...according to the 'bune this mornign

I'd love to be the house on that bet.

We are 8-1 to wins the ALCS over Minn, KC, Oak, Ana, Balt, Tor, NYY and Bos?

Are you sure that it didn't say there were 8 teams in the AL better than the 1 in Chicago?

Brian26
01-18-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
I'd love to be the house on that bet.

We are 8-1 to wins the ALCS over Minn, KC, Oak, Ana, Balt, Tor, NYY and Bos?

Are you sure that it didn't say there were 8 teams in the AL better than the 1 in Chicago?

But the beautiful thing is that Balt, Tor, NYY and Bos are in the same division. At most, only two of those teams will make it to the post season tournament. The Sox only need to be better than Det, KC, Minn and CLE, which is entirely possible. If they can get to the post season, anything is possible (extreme optimism in that statement, of course).

depy48
01-18-2004, 04:40 PM
and what were the marlins odds last year, or the angels odds two years ago? i dont know if i put too much interest in these odds, i dont think they tell too much information on how the sox will play

munchman33
01-18-2004, 05:27 PM
With Loaiza and Buerle at the top of the rotation, anything is possible if we make it to the post season. Those guys have the ability to shut other teams down.

Hondo
01-18-2004, 06:09 PM
I wouldn't use the NY Post for toliet paper.

jeremyb1
01-18-2004, 06:40 PM
Say what you will about our offseason inactivity but to claim we're not contenders in the weakest division in baseball severly hurts one's credibility in my opinion.

depy48
01-18-2004, 07:08 PM
i just find it humorous that this article is accusing the sox of not being conteder, but then implying that the mets are. hmmm, isnt this the same new york mets that went 66-95 last year, and finished dead last in the NL East? so i dont think that any signing immeaditly turns your team from a 66-95 year to a playoff contender. so i dont put any stock at all into this article...

Daver
01-18-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Say what you will about our offseason inactivity but to claim we're not contenders in the weakest division in baseball severly hurts one's credibility in my opinion.

The Royals and the Tigers have made moves that have improved their ballclubs,the Twins can fill the holes left from FA from within the organization,and the Sox have traded for Juan Uribe and signed Cliff Pollite.

I don't think they can compete for the weakest division in baseball as of now either.

fquaye149
01-18-2004, 09:07 PM
You wonder, though, if Thomas would be surprised to see that his Sox are a mere 8-1 to win the American League pennant, despite losing Bartolo Colon, Tom Gordon, Roberto Alomar, Carl Everett, Scott Sullivan and Tony Graffanino from a team that won 86 games.

that is from the article teddy greenstein wrote about trying to interview frank thomas in las vegas in the tribune today, sunday the 18th of january.

you can disagree if you like, i would certainly...but that's what he states...

he doesn't say when those odds were run, but he implies they were made after juan gone, sullivan, etc. signed w/ the royals.


take it as you will...

oddsmakers make a living predicting who will win...but they of course, are often, and in fact usually wrong.


i don't claim to know if we will win the al...i would think we won't...but apparently someone (greenstein doesn't say who) thinks we have a very decent shot.

RKMeibalane
01-18-2004, 09:23 PM
The Sox have an excellent chance to win their division, but the past two seasons have taught me that this team rarely does what's expect of it. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. I do think that having Ozzie Guillen around will help in one regard, though: players won't sleep-walk through games like they did with Manuel. Guillen seems like he's going to take each game seriously, as opposed to Manuel's belief that the first three months of the season don't matter.

As long as the Sox are within striking distance of first place (or in it themselves), Maggs and Loaiza aren't going anywhere. There's no reason for Williams to trade anyone as long as the Sox are winning.

Tragg
01-18-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
The Sox have an excellent chance to win their division,.

Certainly a lot better chance to win our division than the Mets do to win theirs

hose
01-18-2004, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
The Sox are viewed as a non-contender by 3/4 of the people on their own message boards, so what's the big deal that somene else thinks it's possible too?



I don't like the idea that the writer assumes Reinsy will dump Maggs.

Rex Hudler
01-18-2004, 10:21 PM
I find it extremely hypocrytical that this whole message board has been extremely active with people doing nothing about complaining about the Sox lack of moves and how the team is nowhere near as good as it was at the end of last season and how they will suck..... yet, when one outsider (a NY tabloid at that), everyone gets bent out of shape.


If you think the Sox have a chance, QUIT BITCHING! If you don't then don't bitch about someone else saying it too!

RKMeibalane
01-18-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Certainly a lot better chance to win our division than the Mets do to win theirs

Exactly. It just doesn't make sense that the Sox would be willing to send either player to New York, because the Mets are in worse shape than the Sox are at this point. The Sox are by no means a perfect team, but they can at least look at the upcoming season and say that they have an opportunity to contend. The Mets, at best, are looking at a fourth place finish in their division. Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Florida should all be better than they are.

Lip Man 1
01-18-2004, 11:38 PM
I think the New York writer is dead on the money and let me throw in one more name, Mark Buehrle.

He signed a new three year extension with an extremely low payroll figure (for an average MLB team) for the first two years.

With a reasonable deal and for multiple years, with his track record, he'll be the FIRST guy competent contenders come looking for.

Lip

CubKilla
01-18-2004, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
I find it extremely hypocrytical that this whole message board has been extremely active with people doing nothing about complaining about the Sox lack of moves and how the team is nowhere near as good as it was at the end of last season and how they will suck..... yet, when one outsider (a NY tabloid at that), everyone gets bent out of shape.


If you think the Sox have a chance, QUIT BITCHING! If you don't then don't bitch about someone else saying it too!

Notice I haven't said jack :D:

Rex Hudler
01-18-2004, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Notice I haven't said jack :D:

You're being very good, Killa. Keep it up! LOL

Tragg
01-19-2004, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think the New York writer is dead on the money and let me throw in one more name, Mark Buehrle.

He signed a new three year extension with an extremely low payroll figure (for an average MLB team) for the first two years.

With a reasonable deal and for multiple years, with his track record, he'll be the FIRST guy competent contenders come looking for.

Lip
So with a reasonable salary, why would we want to trade him?

Tragg
01-19-2004, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
Exactly. It just doesn't make sense that the Sox would be willing to send either player to New York, because the Mets are in worse shape than the Sox are at this point. The Sox are by no means a perfect team, but they can at least look at the upcoming season and say that they have an opportunity to contend. The Mets, at best, are looking at a fourth place finish in their division. Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Florida should all be better than they are.

I think we compete in this division for 3 Reasons. 1-we underperformed the last 3 years.2. Best top of the rotation in the division with MB and EL. 3-Frank and Maggs are still better than any 2 RBI men other teams in this division have.

I think if we could find a CF and 2b that could merely walk some and get on base, we'd be better than people think- a lot better.

hose
01-19-2004, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
I find it extremely hypocrytical that this whole message board has been extremely active with people doing nothing about complaining about the Sox lack of moves and how the team is nowhere near as good as it was at the end of last season and how they will suck..... yet, when one outsider (a NY tabloid at that), everyone gets bent out of shape.


If you think the Sox have a chance, QUIT BITCHING! If you don't then don't bitch about someone else saying it too!


My BITCH is that the writer assumes the Sox will unload their best talent like Pittsburgh and Cincinatti.

Do you think any Red or Pirate fans are bitching about their teams selling out?

The Mets, as crappy as they are, are still buyers.

Rex Hudler
01-19-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by hose
My BITCH is that the writer assumes the Sox will unload their best talent like Pittsburgh and Cincinatti.

Do you think any Red or Pirate fans are bitching about their teams selling out?

The Mets, as crappy as they are, are still buyers.

If the Sox are not in contention in July, what makes you think they won't try to unload Maggs? They most certainly will unless they have found a way to extend his contract

farscape
01-19-2004, 11:30 AM
Hello Rex Hudler!

jabrch
01-19-2004, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by depy48
and what were the marlins odds last year, or the angels odds two years ago? i dont know if i put too much interest in these odds, i dont think they tell too much information on how the sox will play


That's true. Take away these odds and look just at the guys we are going to put on the field. Our chances look far slimmer than 8:1

jabrch
01-19-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think the New York writer is dead on the money and let me throw in one more name, Mark Buehrle.

He signed a new three year extension with an extremely low payroll figure (for an average MLB team) for the first two years.

With a reasonable deal and for multiple years, with his track record, he'll be the FIRST guy competent contenders come looking for.

Lip

I couldn't see trading Buehrle because he is locked down for 3 years. I can see trading Maggs or Loaiza (FA after next year) or even Carlos (one more year). But I don't see how we could trade Buehrle unless someone was giving us way way way too much for him.

Lip Man 1
01-19-2004, 12:56 PM
Tragg asks:

So with a reasonable salary, why would we want to trade him?

Because with a reasonable salary, a three year deal AND the fact that he's a successful pitcher the Sox could get a 'king's ransom' in top minor league prospects. So that they'll be one step farther along in 'rebuilding' for the 4th time since the labor impasse of 1994.


Lip

Kid T
01-19-2004, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
I think we compete in this division for 3 Reasons. 1-we underperformed the last 3 years.2. Best top of the rotation in the division with MB and EL. 3-Frank and Maggs are still better than any 2 RBI men other teams in this division have.

I think if we could find a CF and 2b that could merely walk some and get on base, we'd be better than people think- a lot better.



Minnesota has slipped a little in the offseason while the Royals have improved a little bit. However:

1) You think this team has underperformed for the last 3 seasons? To me, 3 seasons is enough of a trend to say that perhaps you are overestimating the players.

2) I think Boston, NYY, and Oakland, Cubs (I know I'll get flak for that), and Houston all have better top of the rotation guys. I'll believe in Loaiza when he is able to repeat last years performance. Buerhle is very good, but he hasn't made the leap to perennial Cy Young Award contention yet.

3) I agree with you on this one.

StillMissOzzie
01-20-2004, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
If the Sox are not in contention in July, what makes you think they won't try to unload Maggs? They most certainly will unless they have found a way to extend his contract

I agree. If Maggs hasn't been traded to LA in one of the many scenarios discussed here ad infinitum, he'll be gone by the trading deadline, as right now I'm assuming the Sox will NOT be in contention.


C'mon KW, wow me with another Soxfest-timed announcement!!!

SMO

hose
01-20-2004, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
If the Sox are not in contention in July, what makes you think they won't try to unload Maggs? They most certainly will unless they have found a way to extend his contract


Extending the contract of Maggs ? what a concept.