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lowesox
01-17-2004, 01:51 PM
Rey Ordonez just signed a contract for $650, 000 with the Padres. Wouldn't it have been nicer to have had him at that cost AND a guy like Damian Moss AND and a set-up man for the bullpen instead of Valentin at 5 million?

Anybody who thinks this little fiasco is all Reinsdorf's fault and not Kenny's is crazy.

JRIG
01-17-2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Rey Ordonez just signed a contract for $650, 000 with the Padres. Wouldn't it have been nicer to have had him at that cost AND a guy like Damian Moss AND and a set-up man for the bullpen instead of Valentin at 5 million?


Sure, if you wanted to have the worst hitting keystone combo of all time.

jeremyb1
01-17-2004, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Rey Ordonez just signed a contract for $650, 000 with the Padres. Wouldn't it have been nicer to have had him at that cost AND a guy like Damian Moss AND and a set-up man for the bullpen instead of Valentin at 5 million?

Anybody who thinks this little fiasco is all Reinsdorf's fault and not Kenny's is crazy.

I think Jose is worth the money. He's well above average at hitting and fielding. The way Levine has made it sound, we're over budget so I'm not sure its a certainty failing to pick up Jose's option would've freed up enough money to make significant moves.

JRIG
01-17-2004, 02:04 PM
If this did actually happen, these would have been our options at middle infield for next year:

Ordonez: career .291 OBP, .311 SLG
Harris: career .259 OBP, .241 SLG
Uribe: career .298 OBP, .408 SLG (in Colorado!)

Sounds like three grinders to me!

MisterB
01-17-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
I think Jose is worth the money. He's well above average at hitting and fielding. The way Levine has made it sound, we're over budget so I'm not sure its a certainty failing to pick up Jose's option would've freed up enough money to make significant moves.

At this point the Sox are at least $5M over budget.

CubKilla
01-17-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Anybody who thinks this little fiasco is all Reinsdorf's fault and not Kenny's is crazy.

They're both to blame.

lowesox
01-17-2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by JRIG
Sure, if you wanted to have the worst hitting keystone combo of all time.

They say pitching and defense wins games. Ordonez doesn't hit as many homeruns as Valentin but he does save his pitchers a lot of hits. I'm not nearly as concerned about our lineup as our pitching staff. How good of a chance are we going to have to win with Showenweiss taking the hill? I agree that Ordonez wouldn't be an idea, but the other two guys would certainly help, and Ordonez alone can bring down an ERA.

Deadguy
01-17-2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Rey Ordonez just signed a contract for $650, 000 with the Padres. Wouldn't it have been nicer to have had him at that cost AND a guy like Damian Moss AND and a set-up man for the bullpen instead of Valentin at 5 million?

Anybody who thinks this little fiasco is all Reinsdorf's fault and not Kenny's is crazy.

No thanks. Rey was always overrated defensively, and typically the worst hitter in baseball. He made a bunch of highlight reel plays, but he was really a product of the New York hype and the East Coast bias.

Jose Valentin provides a veteran presence, and has always been a clutch performer. I for one am glad he's back, even at a 5 million dollar price tag.

RKMeibalane
01-17-2004, 03:07 PM
First of all, the reason Valentin is being payed five million dollars is because there was a clause in his contract that called for him to receive the five million if he made a total of 575 plate appearances during the 2003 season. Since he met that criteria, the clause kicked in. So, in other words, Williams either had to give him the five million, or risk losing him. Personally, I'm glad the Sox kept him. They have enough holes as it is. They don't need anymore. Besides, Ordonez would be nothing more than an automatic out in the Sox lineup, which already is likely to feature Willie Harris and his .200 batting average in the lead-off spot.

voodoochile
01-17-2004, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by RKMeibalane
First of all, the reason Valentin is being payed five million dollars is because there was a clause in his contract that called for him to receive the five million if he made a total of 575 plate appearances during the 2003 season. Since he met that criteria, the clause kicked in. So, in other words, Williams either had to give him the five million, or risk losing him. Personally, I'm glad the Sox kept him. They have enough holes as it is. They don't need anymore. Besides, Ordonez would be nothing more than an automatic out in the Sox lineup, which already is likely to feature Willie Harris and his .200 batting average in the lead-off spot.

He fell short by something like 6 PA of having the clause automatically kick in. The Sox picked up the option anyway.

OEO Magglio
01-17-2004, 04:02 PM
Rey Ordonez would have been royce clayton number 2.

depy48
01-17-2004, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Deadguy
No thanks. Rey was always overrated defensively, and typically the worst hitter in baseball. He made a bunch of highlight reel plays, but he was really a product of the New York hype and the East Coast bias.

Jose Valentin provides a veteran presence, and has always been a clutch performer. I for one am glad he's back, even at a 5 million dollar price tag.

i agree, jose brings a spark to the field, and he plays with a lot of heart. i think jose has the mkist heart than any current sox player, i'm glad he's back

depy48
01-17-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by depy48
i agree, jose brings a spark to the field, and he plays with a lot of heart. i think jose has the mkist heart than any current sox player, i'm glad he's back

most heart

dickallen15
01-17-2004, 05:03 PM
I think the White Sox picked up the option out of loyalty to Valentin. He signed for a few million less than Baltimore was offering him after 2000. Maybe out of respect for that, they picked up the option. And before anyone says Reinsdorf is too cheap to do that, remember, he is paying Jay Williams of the Bulls even though he probably doesn't have to.

CWSGuy406
01-17-2004, 05:21 PM
I still would rather see a solid pitcher here then having Valentin here. Sorry, but hitting .240 (was it even that) at the plate, not being able to hit lefties, and playing a pretty solid SS doesn't warrent (sp?) 5 million.

Has anyone actually seen Uribe play? I've heard he plays a real good SS, but doesn't bring much offensively. Anyone seen him play more than once?

BTW, I'm not advocating having Uribe as our SS.

Jjav829
01-17-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Rey Ordonez just signed a contract for $650, 000 with the Padres. Wouldn't it have been nicer to have had him at that cost AND a guy like Damian Moss AND and a set-up man for the bullpen instead of Valentin at 5 million?

Anybody who thinks this little fiasco is all Reinsdorf's fault and not Kenny's is crazy.

Ugh. No thanks. Granted Jose isn't great, but Rey Ordonez? *shutters* Well I guess he got what he earned after posting that wonderful career high .328 OBP last year. I'd take Juan Uribe (ugh) before Rey.

Originally posted by depy48


most heart

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TheRockinMT
01-17-2004, 05:29 PM
I think that Jose is a good SS and we are fortunate to have him on the team. I like his committment and spirit. I really think that you will see improvement in that BA from Jose and continued improvement in the field.

lowesox
01-17-2004, 06:26 PM
Wow, I can't believe there are so many Jose Valentin advocates. I think he has pretty good power numbers as a shortstop, but that's about it. And with guys like Thomas, Ordonez, Lee and even Konerko I'm not sure how much we need power numbers.

If anything, with our bargain basement pitching staff, we could use some defense - especially when you consider that we have a defensive question mark in center field too. No, I don't think Rey Ordonez is the ideal fit - but I think Valentin is one of the worst players on this team. And he's old. His batting average isn't going to go up - if anything we'll be lucky if it doesn't go down. What Jose brings to the team in power, Ordonez brings in defense. I do think Jose is marginally better than Ordonez, but not 4.25 million better.

Personally, I'd rather have two decent pitchers and one bad shortstop instead of one average (at best) shortstop.

cornball
01-17-2004, 07:00 PM
I never understood the "love" around here for Jose myself. For a team with a very very limited budget, Jose for 5MM was a bad signing.

He is an average shortstop but not worth 5MM. I said it at the time, the popular response was we had no other choice. I recall the Cubs going almost to spring training a few years ago before signing their current SS.

Ordonez is not the answer.

A deal could have been made to aquire a SS or Aurilia who recently signed for 3.5 with Seattle.

Since we have to live with him for another year, I hope he improves this year...we need it.