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View Full Version : A little good news?


lowesox
01-15-2004, 07:50 PM
In case anybody was interested it was exactly one year ago today that we made the big Colon trade. Then Kenny had a couple signings lined up for after that.

http://www.usasportsbettinglines.com/baseball/transactions/whitesox.html

When you look at this timeline, you can see that, except the atrocity that was the Billy Koch trade, the Sox didn't have any significant movement before until this time last year too.

I can remember that at this time last year we were all pretty pissed, because Kenny missed out on several good players (missing out on Millwood in particular had people upset), but we did get to a good point. Usually, I'm the biggest pessimist when it comes to Kenny, but just for the sake of trying to be positive, maybe this is proof that Kenny could still pull through for us.

StepsInSC
01-15-2004, 08:10 PM
I don't think Kenny is the problem. He just needs more allowance from his 'dad'.

Not that you said he was the problem, but yea I have some trust in him.

white sox bill
01-16-2004, 07:42 AM
Lowesox,
Your right--little good news

hold2dibber
01-16-2004, 10:07 AM
But I think there are a couple of differences. This year, KW has basically already said that he doesn't see anything happening. Also, last year at this time the Sox were not over their self-imposed budget. And last year there were still all kinds of possibilities floating around. Similarly, last year there were still some big names out there who people knew were available. This year, who is still on the market (either as a FA or via trade) that could actually make a difference for the Sox? None come to mind.

That's not to say that KW won't be able to make any moves to improve the club. But I don't think there's as much reason to hope that he will as there was last year at this time.

Iwritecode
01-16-2004, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
This year, who is still on the market (either as a FA or via trade) that could actually make a difference for the Sox?

Well, there's this SS in Boston...

CubKilla
01-16-2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
I don't think Kenny is the problem. He just needs more allowance from his 'dad'.

Not that you said he was the problem, but yea I have some trust in him.

Given KW's track record on some of the big trades, I'd be leery of KW with a fat checkbook. Maybe JR is taking this into account.

Having said that, JR has made his intention perfectly clear this offseason. No trades, no offseason signings..... unless there's a significant salary dump to go along with said trade/signing.

kittle42
01-16-2004, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Well, there's this SS in Boston...

Magglio Ordonez is a better player than Nomar Garciaparra.

PaulDrake
01-16-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
Magglio Ordonez is a better player than Nomar Garciaparra. I agree. Like I've said before here it seems like a thousand times I don't understand the bloodlust to dump Magglio. I also don't understand all this excitement over Nomar. He wants to play in Chicago about as much as everybody here wants to work at McDonalds. These trade scenarios bandied about with Boston have ranged from bad to awful. The contract Maggs signed several years ago was not out of line with the market at the time. I believe it was 29.5/3yr, if I'm wrong I'm sure someone here will correct me. In any case, as is the style of JR, the biggest amount comes in the final year. Just when the big honcho says its time to cut payroll. Cheap, timid and stupid. That's not my line, but it's so true.

hold2dibber
01-16-2004, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
I agree. Like I've said before here it seems like a thousand times I don't understand the bloodlust to dump Magglio. I also don't understand all this excitement over Nomar. He wants to play in Chicago about as much as everybody here wants to work at McDonalds. These trade scenarios bandied about with Boston have ranged from bad to awful. The contract Maggs signed several years ago was not out of line with the market at the time. I believe it was 29.5/3yr, if I'm wrong I'm sure someone here will correct me. In any case, as is the style of JR, the biggest amount comes in the final year. Just when the big honcho says its time to cut payroll. Cheap, timid and stupid. That's not my line, but it's so true.

I don't think there's any "bloodlust" to dump Maggs. I for one am hopeful that they'll flip cartwheels to try to re-sign him to an extension. But if he is committed to testing the free agent waters after next year, I have no problem with exploring his trade value. And if a Nomar/Maggs deal is possible and all other things are considered equal (e.g., both are going to bolt after next year anyway) I'd probably make that deal because their offensive output is very similar but Garciaparra plays a more important defensive position and he plays it well.

CubKilla
01-16-2004, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I don't think there's any "bloodlust" to dump Maggs.

I agree. I think Sox fans are beginning to accept the JR philosophy and only want Maggs dealt because they buy into the whole "we'll be more competitive w/o Maggs' contract hanging over our head" instead of wanting JR to honor the deal he originally made and increase the payroll to build around Maggs.

Iwritecode
01-16-2004, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
I don't think there's any "bloodlust" to dump Maggs. I for one am hopeful that they'll flip cartwheels to try to re-sign him to an extension. But if he is committed to testing the free agent waters after next year, I have no problem with exploring his trade value. And if a Nomar/Maggs deal is possible and all other things are considered equal (e.g., both are going to bolt after next year anyway) I'd probably make that deal because their offensive output is very similar but Garciaparra plays a more important defensive position and he plays it well.

Hold, you do such I fine job putting my thoughts into words (even before I do) I'm going to just start quoting your posts and putting "what he said" underneath them...

:D:

BTW, my only addition to this is that I wouldn't have a problem
trading Maggs if they are able to sign Nomar to an extension.

Otherwise, I'm not sure it would really be worth it.

Rex Hudler
01-16-2004, 01:02 PM
I don't think Kenny is the problem. He just needs more allowance from his 'dad'.

So the Sox can instantly be successful like the Orioles, Rangers or Dodgers?

Money is not the only answer.

Iwritecode
01-16-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
So the Sox can instantly be successful like the Orioles, Rangers or Dodgers?

Money is not the only answer.

True, but it sure can be a big problem. Especially when it hinders the ability of a GM to complete a trade that would improve the team...

PaulDrake
01-16-2004, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
I agree. I think Sox fans are beginning to accept the JR philosophy and only want Maggs dealt because they buy into the whole "we'll be more competitive w/o Maggs' contract hanging over our head" instead of wanting JR to honor the deal he originally made and increase the payroll to build around Maggs. OK so maybe I was a bit melodramatic. I'd say that's the Italian in me but then I'd probably catch all kinds of hell. In any case, I agree with you that Sox fans are beginning to be resigned to JR's philosophy and want to get something for Maggs rather than lose him to FA after this year. I'm sorry, I'm not doing cartwheels over Nomar, he isn't that hot when he's not in Fenway. The Red Sox created this problem, let them deal with it. I just want JR to honor the Maggs contract and try to build around him. Hope I got that color right. It was hard enough for me to memorize teal.

lowesox
01-16-2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
True, but it sure can be a big problem. Especially when it hinders the ability of a GM to complete a trade that would improve the team...

Not that I'm defending the money-issue, but I think Kenny painted himself into a corner or two all by himself. I was just thinking today how the sox could probably have signed two or three decent players for the 5 million they gave Valentin.

Iwritecode
01-16-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Not that I'm defending the money-issue, but I think Kenny painted himself into a corner or two all by himself. I was just thinking today how the sox could probably have signed two or three decent players for the 5 million they gave Valentin.

Very true.

I think it's about 30% KW's fault for the few overpaid guys we have on the team (Koch, Konerko, Jose) and the other 70% goes to JR for setting such a low budget in the first place.

hold2dibber
01-16-2004, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Very true.

I think it's about 30% KW's fault for the few overpaid guys we have on the team (Koch, Konerko, Jose) and the other 70% goes to JR for setting such a low budget in the first place.

Now you're saying it like I was going to say it! We think the same, IWC.

The only thing I'd add is that KW has overpaid some guys as you note, but so has every GM in baseball. No one is right all the time. The Great Billy Beane is paying Jermaine Dye $11 for '04. Think he'd rather have had that money available to retain Tejada or Foulke or to go out and get Vlad Guerrero? JR's budget gives KW virtually no room for error. And that's a lot to ask. Under those circumstances, the best you can hope for is that he can string together a good enough team every year that they get lucky some year and catch lightening in a bottle.

Iwritecode
01-16-2004, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
JR's budget gives KW virtually no room for error. And that's a lot to ask.

That's exactly the problem. Teams like Yankees and Cubs can overspend on a couple of guys and it doesn't affect them nearly as much.

I'd love to ask KW how he feels about this. Does he think he's able to do his job to the best of his ability given the restraints *coughpayrollcough* he's under?

That's like telling somebody like me, "Here's this program you have to write but you have to get it done within 20 hours or it will cost too much."

Then I'd just have to slap something together and hope it works rather than taking my time and making sure everything works correctly.

Lip Man 1
01-16-2004, 07:47 PM
I Write Code asks:

Does he think he's able to do his job to the best of his ability given the restraints *coughpayrollcough* he's under?

Kenny knew what he was getting into when he took the job. He'd been a part of the organization for a few years and remember his famous "I can't ask the owner to spend a dollar if he only has fifty cents" quote at his press conference when he got the job.

Lip

lowesox
01-16-2004, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I'd love to ask KW how he feels about this.

You know, I guarantee that Kenny reads this site - continually. In fact, I always wonder what his alias is. I also wonder what he thinks when he reads some of these posts.

I'll bet he's in heaven right now since Reinsdorf and his 'budget' are taking all of the blame off him being one of the worst General Managers in baseball. I guess that's the one benefit of working for one of the worst owners in baseball.

Rex Hudler
01-16-2004, 08:48 PM
JR's budget gives KW virtually no room for error. And that's a lot to ask.

It would be scary to see how many errors KW would make with a larger budget!