PDA

View Full Version : Citizens Bank Park .....Stadium that should be on South Side Instead...


Hangar18
01-13-2004, 02:31 PM
The Phillies new park, opens this year. its beautiful.....
and wonderfully perfect in its Urban Setting. Faces downtown,
unlike our place, that turns a Cold Shoulder to it.

Heres a Link to Enjoy .....realize what couldve been:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/ballpark/phi_ballpark_2004ballpark.jsp

CubKilla
01-13-2004, 02:33 PM
JR usually sets the example of what NOT to do if owner of a baseball team. His taxpayer funded folley is a perfect example.

Tekijawa
01-13-2004, 02:33 PM
I heard their Seats are blue though... that completely ruins parks doesn't it?

FanOf14
01-13-2004, 02:36 PM
USCF, Comiskey II, whatever you want to call it, isn't that bad, heck I have yet to have a bad seat or rotten time there.

I wish a crappy ballpark was the only problem within the White Sox organization. (For the record, I like USCF and with the renovations going on, it will be even better).

KingXerxes
01-13-2004, 02:42 PM
The new park in Philadelphia looks like the top deck seats are about 1/2 of a mile away from the field. It looks like they did a nice job in laying it out though - as I said in an earlier posting, when home runs land in the seating area it adds a lot to the park for some reason.

Given advances in building technology, and the aversion to ever having a pillar obstruct anybody's view (which I think has been blown way out of proportion), I'm amazed that somebody has yet to build a park which keeps the "cheap seats" closer to the playing field. Yankee Stadium is a good example of a park which rises up instead of out, and if I recall correctly, doesn't have any pillars at all blocking sight lines.

Baby Fisk
01-13-2004, 02:57 PM
I love how the scoreboard LOOMS over left field the way the scoreboard used to loom over old Comiskey.

KingXerxes, I agree about the upper deck seats. They look waaaaaay away from the field. Maybe it's just the rendering?

Palehose13
01-13-2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
The new park in Philadelphia looks like the top deck seats are about 1/2 of a mile away from the field. It looks like they did a nice job in laying it out though - as I said in an earlier posting, when home runs land in the seating area it adds a lot to the park for some reason.

Given advances in building technology, and the aversion to ever having a pillar obstruct anybody's view (which I think has been blown way out of proportion), I'm amazed that somebody has yet to build a park which keeps the "cheap seats" closer to the playing field. Yankee Stadium is a good example of a park which rises up instead of out, and if I recall correctly, doesn't have any pillars at all blocking sight lines.

That is what I don't like about Miller Park. The UD seats (all levels) are sooooo far away from the field. It seems that there are 2 choices for an upper deck, steep and close to the field or flattened and farther away. I'd rather have steep and close to the field. IMHO, if you get in the first 10-15 rows of the UD at USCF you have a pretty good view of the game. Last year opening day, I had 2nd row behind home plate in the UD. Those were some of the best seats I've ever had.

SoxOnTop
01-13-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I heard their Seats are blue though... that completely ruins parks doesn't it?

What is with the uniform hatred of blue seats??? I hear that all over the place on this site and I just don't get it. If the place is packed, you never see the color of the seats?

Frater Perdurabo
01-13-2004, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
The Phillies new park, opens this year. its beautiful.....
and wonderfully perfect in its Urban Setting. Faces downtown,
unlike our place, that turns a Cold Shoulder to it.

Heres a Link to Enjoy .....realize what couldve been:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/ballpark/phi_ballpark_2004ballpark.jsp

What a beautiful park.

USCF will be very good when the renovations are done, though.

After that, the Sox just need to wait until more retail and housing develops around the park. Converting the parking lots into parking garages with retail, restaurant and mixed-use residential (rental and purchase) would go a long way toward helping out.

Fenway
01-13-2004, 03:25 PM
Was down in Philly last Labor Day when Boston played the Phillies and the new park looked nice. At first glance the upper deck didn't seem high until I was informed that you enter the park halfway up.

Now if only we could get a new park in Boston to replace Fenway Dump.

(It looks pretty on TV, but it is a very uncomfortable place to go)

soxnut
01-13-2004, 04:38 PM
As nice as their new park is going to be, there has been a comlaint I read in one of the Philly papers, that the ballpark should have been built closer to downtown. There are just parking lots around the ballpark.....sound familiar?

Anyway, with the renovations that are happening with USCF, I really think it is going to be one of the better ballparks. I would really like to have a comparison of upper deck dimensions of all of the ballparks. I have heard that the Ballpark of Arlington has the highest seats in major league baseball, but of course noone ever dogs their park for that.............

ewokpelts
01-13-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Frater Perdurabo


Converting the parking lots into parking garages with retail, restaurant and mixed-use residential (rental and purchase) would go a long way toward helping out.

yeah...that'll happen...the sox dont want competition, even if that competition pays rent to use that mixed use retail/parking space
Gene

soxnut
01-13-2004, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by ewokpelts
yeah...that'll happen...the sox dont want competition, even if that competition pays rent to use that mixed use retail/parking space
Gene

I don't know where you get that you think it won't happen. There are some on this board that know better.....(not me though)

soxnut
01-13-2004, 04:42 PM
Heres a Link to Enjoy .....realize what couldve been:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/ballpark/phi_ballpark_2004ballpark.jsp [/B][/QUOTE]

Haven't you said the same thing everytime a new ballpark gets built???? :smile:

steff
01-13-2004, 04:44 PM
Oh lookie.. Henry complaining about something else the Sox screwed up... :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

compy75
01-13-2004, 05:02 PM
Guys, I am originally from the Philly area and my parents still reside in the suburbs. My father's has the full season ticket plan for the coming year, so I have a good understanding on what's going on. Here's the story on the new ballpark:

1) A TON of negative treatment of the park since its proposal was rejected by a Chinatown protest that would not allow it to go downtown. The whole city media really wasn't pleased at all, and to be honest there hasn't been one positive article I have seen about the park.

2) Further, more negative treatment has been given to the park in regard to the fact that it does not have a "trademark" and strongly resembles Jacob's Field. Looking at the new parks in construction, the Pads trademark will be two-fold in that left field UD will hangover the field and a beach volleyball net will be in CF.

3) The town is generally a bunch of frontrunners, and no one cares about the Phils at all, which at the least let me root for them a tad. This is in stark contrast to my disgust for all other Philly teams.

4) They now may encounter a huge problem with the potential that the Vet's implosion may be held up. The newest word is that local residents are suing for reasons unknown and destruction has been delayed. This will be a HUGE problem b/c public transit is horrible and not really used in Philly and the stadium would have been used for parking. This could turn out as quite a disaster.

In general, the east coast reaction to the Cell is very positive. So, lets keep our heads up and realize sometimes it isnt better on the other side of the ball.

Rex Hudler
01-13-2004, 05:11 PM
Is it possible to upload a photo onto this site?

If so, I have a couple of construction photos of the Phillies new park I'd be happy to post.

Daver
01-13-2004, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Is it possible to upload a photo onto this site?

If so, I have a couple of construction photos of the Phillies new park I'd be happy to post.

At the bottom of the reply page is a box marked attach file,you can browse your files there and attach them.

Fenway
01-13-2004, 05:19 PM
Why on earth would anybody want to "Save the Vet?"

This poster not kidding about the Philly subway. The Broad Street Subway makes the State Street subway look like the cleanest in the world.

As I posted elsewhere, Comiskey II needs some life around the park. Part of the charm of Fenway and Wrigley is being "in the city" Philly has the same problem, there is nothing close by to the park except a Holiday Inn.


Originally posted by compy75


They now may encounter a huge problem with the potential that the Vet's implosion may be held up. The newest word is that local residents are suing for reasons unknown and destruction has been delayed. This will be a HUGE problem b/c public transit is horrible and not really used in Philly and the stadium would have been used for parking. This could turn out as quite a disaster.

Rex Hudler
01-13-2004, 05:21 PM
Thanks Daver!

This one was taken in late October, before they laid the new sod.

Rex Hudler
01-13-2004, 05:25 PM
This was taken in mid-November after the sod was laid...

PINWHEELS
01-13-2004, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by compy75
Guys, I am originally from the Philly area and my parents still reside in the suburbs. My father's has the full season ticket plan for the coming year, so I have a good understanding on what's going on. Here's the story on the new ballpark:

1) A TON of negative treatment of the park since its proposal was rejected by a Chinatown protest that would not allow it to go downtown. The whole city media really wasn't pleased at all, and to be honest there hasn't been one positive article I have seen about the park.

2) Further, more negative treatment has been given to the park in regard to the fact that it does not have a "trademark" and strongly resembles Jacob's Field. Looking at the new parks in construction, the Pads trademark will be two-fold in that left field UD will hangover the field and a beach volleyball net will be in CF.

3) The town is generally a bunch of frontrunners, and no one cares about the Phils at all, which at the least let me root for them a tad. This is in stark contrast to my disgust for all other Philly teams.

4) They now may encounter a huge problem with the potential that the Vet's implosion may be held up. The newest word is that local residents are suing for reasons unknown and destruction has been delayed. This will be a HUGE problem b/c public transit is horrible and not really used in Philly and the stadium would have been used for parking. This could turn out as quite a disaster.

In general, the east coast reaction to the Cell is very positive. So, lets keep our heads up and realize sometimes it isnt better on the other side of the ball.

doublem23
01-13-2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
The Phillies new park, opens this year. its beautiful.....
and wonderfully perfect in its Urban Setting. Faces downtown,
unlike our place, that turns a Cold Shoulder to it.

Heres a Link to Enjoy .....realize what couldve been:

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/phi/ballpark/phi_ballpark_2004ballpark.jsp

Wow, they just copied Jacobs Field but added more foul ground.

Good for them.

Viva Magglio
01-13-2004, 08:18 PM
I'm not complaining about USCF, but take a look at the renderings for the new ballpark (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stl/ballpark/stl_ballpark_newpark_newballpark.jsp) for St. Louis which is scheduled to open in 2006. The new Cardinals ballpark will reside between Busch Stadium and the expressway. Busch Stadium, a very nice stadium in its own right, will be demolished and the "Ballpark Village" consisting of shops and office buildings will be built in its place.

Again, not to complain about what we have, but it would have been real nice if the White Sox built something just like this in the South Loop. Such a ballpark and attached "Ballpark Village" would have brought great development to the South Loop. The best thing I like about what the Cardinals are doing is that they are allowing their fans to choose the color of the new ballpark's seats. Their choices are the traditional green or the Cardinal red.

doublem23
01-13-2004, 08:54 PM
I hope they do something about the parking lots there. Unbelievably poor design.

nut_stock
01-13-2004, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
I'm not complaining about USCF, but take a look at the renderings for the new ballpark (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stl/ballpark/stl_ballpark_newpark_newballpark.jsp) for St. Louis which is scheduled to open in 2006. The new Cardinals ballpark will reside between Busch Stadium and the expressway. Busch Stadium, a very nice stadium in its own right, will be demolished and the "Ballpark Village" consisting of shops and office buildings will be built in its place.

Again, not to complain about what we have, but it would have been real nice if the White Sox built something just like this in the South Loop. Such a ballpark and attached "Ballpark Village" would have brought great development to the South Loop. The best thing I like about what the Cardinals are doing is that they are allowing their fans to choose the color of the new ballpark's seats. Their choices are the traditional green or the Cardinal red.


Just a little tid bit about the Cardinals ballpark.... Approximately 10,000 seats will require the purchase of a Personal Seat Licence (aka: ballpark founders program) just for the right to buy tickets. Also, if you get a chance take a look at what they are charging for lower level seating (excluding bleachers)...hmm I wonder why St. Louis' 2 frontier league teams seem to be gaining popularity so quickly.....
Make no mistake about it, St. Louis will have a beautiful stadium, but cards fans are going to have to dip alot deeper.

Lip Man 1
01-13-2004, 09:54 PM
Nut Stock says:

But Cards fans are going to have to dip a lot deeper.

Yea but they've gotten a hell of a lot more for their money then Sox fans have haven't they?

Look at the number of playoff, pennant and series titles in the last 40 years.

Lip

SSN721
01-14-2004, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
I'm not complaining about USCF, but take a look at the renderings for the new ballpark (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stl/ballpark/stl_ballpark_newpark_newballpark.jsp) for St. Louis which is scheduled to open in 2006. The new Cardinals ballpark will reside between Busch Stadium and the expressway. Busch Stadium, a very nice stadium in its own right, will be demolished and the "Ballpark Village" consisting of shops and office buildings will be built in its place.

Again, not to complain about what we have, but it would have been real nice if the White Sox built something just like this in the South Loop. Such a ballpark and attached "Ballpark Village" would have brought great development to the South Loop. The best thing I like about what the Cardinals are doing is that they are allowing their fans to choose the color of the new ballpark's seats. Their choices are the traditional green or the Cardinal red.

Did VW/Audi sponser the field or the renderings or something? Its funny, looks like every car in the exterior renderings are all Golfs, Jettas and other various VWs. The park looks absolutely gorgeous though. Will definately have to travel down there after it opens to check it out. I am still relatively excited about the improvements to the Cell this winter though, I think besides the parking lot and lack of anything but pavement in the surrounding blocks it is still a great park with great sightlines, food and atmosphere. Glad they at least put the roof on to give me something to look forward to next season. :whiner:

Frater Perdurabo
01-14-2004, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by soxnut
I have heard that the Ballpark of Arlington has the highest seats in major league baseball, but of course noone ever dogs their park for that.............

I don't have stats, but I have been to both USCF and The Ballpark in Arlington, and the top UD seats at The Ballpark are much, much higher from the field than at USCF, and the slope of the UD looks to be just as steep. There also is no roof over anyt UD seats at The Ballpark. However, the Ballpark's field is sunk below grade, so that when you enter the stadium you enter at the concourse level for the lower deck and look down to the field. Also, there are lots of other charming attributes to The Ballpark (brick and wrought iron, etc.), and there is a generally compliant media in Dallas-Fort Worth (the Rangers don't have to compete with another MLB team owned by a media outlet in the same market), so the pitch and height of The Ballpark's UD are not reported as overwhelming problems every time the stadium is mentioned in the media.

(Sadly, if the Rangers get the most attention on sports segments of DFW-area TV news, the Cubs get the second-most attention -- more than the Astros, more than the Yankees and more than the Red Sox. Funny, because the WB station in Dallas, which also has news, gives lots of attention to the Cubs as well. Big surprise, they both are owned by the same corporation -- Tribune! So much for a fair and balanced media.)

doublem23
01-14-2004, 09:18 AM
Have you ever been to Camden Yards? Considering how much more beloved that place is than USCF, it's really not that much of an improvement barring the aesthetics and overall "feel." I didn't sit in the upper deck, but from the looks of it, it had to be as steep as the Cell's maligned counterpart.

IronFisk
01-14-2004, 09:45 AM
Being a former resident myself of Philly, Fenway was right about the Broad St. Subway being the pits - but, it DID drop you off right at the front door of the Vet, now you will have to hike it a bit to the new park, and a LOT further to the Link.

Anyway, the Phil's new park is nice - very nice. BUT, don't be too fooled by that "downtown" view. It really isn't all that close - look again at those two pics above - nice view of ONE building. I think the upperdeck people will have a nice look though.

As for USCF, all they need now is to property orientate that place towards downtown. Hmmm, the first "lazy susan" ballpark?

IronFisk
01-14-2004, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by fenway
Was down in Philly last Labor Day when Boston played the Phillies and the new park looked nice. At first glance the upper deck didn't seem high until I was informed that you enter the park halfway up.

Now if only we could get a new park in Boston to replace Fenway Dump.

(It looks pretty on TV, but it is a very uncomfortable place to go)


YO! Have you seen their new plans...

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/bosbpk.htm

anewman35
01-14-2004, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by IronFisk
YO! Have you seen their new plans...

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/bosbpk.htm

Those plans are very old and from a prior ownership group. I was under the impression that the new group had committed to (or was at least thinking about) staying in a renovated Fenway

Rex Hudler
01-14-2004, 10:08 AM
Have you ever been to Camden Yards? Considering how much more beloved that place is than USCF, it's really not that much of an improvement barring the aesthetics and overall "feel."

I have to disagree. I have no problem with USCF and thought it was a nice park (although I have not seen and of the improvements), but when I first walked into Camden Yards, my jaw about dropped. It is absolutely one of the most beautiful ballparks I have ever seen. Not knocking USCF, but there is a major difference between the two in my mind.

I also have a solution for those that don't like the upper deck in USCF or any park... DON'T SIT THERE. Pony up the extra bones and sit in the good seats. :)

anewman35
01-14-2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
I also have a solution for those that don't like the upper deck in USCF or any park... DON'T SIT THERE. Pony up the extra bones and sit in the good seats. :)

Plus, in the lower deck of The Cell, you can get CORNED BEEF SANDWICHES! It's just not a ballgame without them.