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View Full Version : Are there still winter optimists?


kittle42
01-12-2004, 01:05 PM
Over the past few months, we have seen many posts here which can be generally divided into two camps: the realists who know JR is going to do nothing significant and the optimists who criticize the realists and tell us to wait and that it's still early, etc.

Are there any optimists left?

depy48
01-12-2004, 01:06 PM
right here, just look at my signature

kittle42
01-12-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by depy48
right here, just look at my signature

Are they awarding pennants to the third place division finishers this year?

Palehose13
01-12-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Over the past few months, we have seen many posts here which can be generally divided into two camps: the realists who know JR is going to do nothing significant and the optimists who criticize the realists and tell us to wait and that it's still early, etc.

Are there any optimists left?
I don't think I've criticized the "realists" or pessimists, but I am still a little optimistic. It is dwindling, but I think KW will try to pull something before Soxfest (ala Colon). I don't think they want to deal with angry mobs. I don't think it is such a bad thing to have faith.

BeerHandle
01-12-2004, 01:12 PM
I was an optimist before the MLB Winter meetings, but am now moving over to the pessimist side.

Tekijawa
01-12-2004, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
It is dwindling, but I think KW will try to pull something before Soxfest (ala Colon). I don't think they want to deal with angry mobs.

I don't know if you can make a Mob out of the three people who will be attending this year.

Palehose13
01-12-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I don't know if you can make a Mob out of the three people who will be attending this year.
Awe, c'mon! There should be at least 30! But if there isn't...gotta love the short line to get Uribe's autograph.

Iwritecode
01-12-2004, 01:21 PM
I was optimistic up until they didn't re-sign Colon, Alomar, Everett and Gordan and did nothing to replace them.

Politte helped a tiny bit.

If the Red/White Sox trade goes down, It may help a little more depending on who they get.

Even then I still won't believe any one team will run away with the divsion though...

depy48
01-12-2004, 01:27 PM
you just gotta run on faith

steff
01-12-2004, 01:35 PM
Every now and then even a blind squirrel finds a nut... :D:

Tekijawa
01-12-2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by steff
Every now and then even a blind squirrel finds a nut... :D:

We found Loiaza last year... we aren't due for awhile!

TaylorStSox
01-12-2004, 01:37 PM
I'll be optimistic until we officially suck. That's going to happen when our record sucks. Right now, we're .500. I've thought that we'd be really tough the last 4 years. However, the team was full of underachievers.

jeremyb1
01-12-2004, 01:39 PM
We're not going to sign any big time free agents with our payroll situation but a trade is always a possibility.

StepsInSC
01-12-2004, 01:42 PM
I don't think its unreasonable to be optomistic when you look at what division we play in.

Now if anyone is actually optomistic that we could go deep into the playoffs......

Maximo
01-12-2004, 01:46 PM
It comes down to one thing for me. I need the current ownership to give me some idea as to "This is the Plan!" When have they recently given Sox fans any idea as to what is the long range thinking toward the success of this club? All we see from Reinsdorf is apparently some budget figure. All we hear from Williams is "the only moves we'll make are ones that will make us better" What the hell does that mean?

If they think the nucleus of this team is good enough to challenge for pennants in the immediate future, then do some tweeking other than Politte and Uribe to get us in contention. If they don't, then get rid of everybody and bring in some prospects that will get us in position 3 years from now.

All this dinking around in between means nothing if they haven't got a clue as to where they are at this moment in time. This franchise needs a shot of enthusiasm desperately and they need it right now. That's the only good thing about the "Nomar" talk...and that's all it apparently is right now. Whether they trade for him, sign him long term or ship him off for prospects....at least it's a sign that there's life on 35th and Shields. Otherwise, it looks as if we're on 'life support'.

It's the inactivity and lack of vision by the Sox front office that makes this off season hard to take. I'm to the point where I don't care what they do...just do something BIG and justify it to me afterward. Then I'll decide if I like it or not. But this doing nothing....saying nothing........it sucks.

ChiSoxJay
01-12-2004, 01:47 PM
I'm still very optimistic about the upcoming season but would feel a heck of alot better if Harris isn't in the starting lineup come opening day. I think having him and Rowand in the lineup on the same day really hurts offensively. Hopefully Rowand will continue where he left off last season to ease the pain.

voodoochile
01-12-2004, 02:08 PM
I'm optimistic because of the division the Sox are in, but it will take a whole lot of "ifs" to come true for the Sox to really be competitors. Not saying it can't happen, that's why we play the games, but as weak as this division is, it makes the lack of off season improvement that much harder to stomach...

:selljerry

Lip Man 1
01-12-2004, 02:09 PM
Depy 48 says: BELIEVERS BECOME ACHEIVERS
WHITESOX PENNANT 2004

See what happens when you watch to many reality shows while on drugs?

Lip

pudge
01-12-2004, 02:11 PM
I have to wait and see how the team looks on the field before I get into pessimist mode... having said that, I am concerned about our lack of left handed bats, and I still think this team is going to have problems manufactoring runs, but... our division is so ugly, we have a good chance. Matt Stairs and Juan Gonzalez simply don't scare me.

As for big off season moves, maybe it won't happen, but maybe KW will do something at mid-season again, so there's always hope...

Twin Killing
01-12-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I'm optimistic because of the division the Sox are in, but it will take a whole lot of "ifs" to come true for the Sox to really be competitors. Not saying it can't happen, that's why we play the games, but as weak as this division is, it makes the lack of off season improvement that much harder to stomach...


I agree with voodoo except to say that I am not at all optimistic. The whole idea of just make the playoffs and then anything can happen is garbage. You either build a team to win the World Series, or you put the pieces in place to do so a few years down the road. The Sox appear to be doing neither.

soxnut
01-12-2004, 02:31 PM
I'm still optimistic about the upcoming season. The Sox do have a nucleus of a good ballcub. a little tweaking is all that is needed. And the approach and attitude to hitting is where this team needs to improve, that to me ,was the downfall of this team.

I don't want the Sox to make moves, for the sake of making moves, just so everybody is happy at Soxfest. But it would be nice to get another starting pitcher, another bench player and a left-handed bat. :smile:

CHISOXFAN13
01-12-2004, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Are they awarding pennants to the third place division finishers this year?

That's right. I forgot KC was going to hit. 320 with RISP again this season.

TheRockinMT
01-12-2004, 02:43 PM
A true Sox fan always thinks we can win no matter what and count me in that camp, but as far as optimistic about making a serious move before the season starts reminds me of a saying:

"There are no more liberals left, they have all been mugged."


Sox fans have been mugged once to often by Reinsdorf to be anything but realistic.

Baby Fisk
01-12-2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by TheRockinMT
A true Sox fan always thinks we can win no matter what and count me in that camp

I think you mean a true Flubs fan will always think they can win no matter what...

From my short time at this message board, I've come to appreciate that a true Sox fan is BITTER, OUTRAGED, ANGRY, SPITEFUL, AND PUMPED FULL OF A GREAT DEAL OF BOTH RAGE AND SCHADENFREUDE...usually all at once. And it's ultimately better than being a naive flubbie fan.

:thankgod

voodoochile
01-12-2004, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Twin Killing
I agree with voodoo except to say that I am not at all optimistic. The whole idea of just make the playoffs and then anything can happen is garbage. You either build a team to win the World Series, or you put the pieces in place to do so a few years down the road. The Sox appear to be doing neither.

Hey, that's right, if they don't make a run at it, aren't they supposed to at least try and rebuild? I mean, staning pat with an average team and no major stars on the horizon in the minors is NOT the way to win fans over...

:gallas
"Well, the kids can't play and the budget is shot, so I am going for a new theme: 'White Sox baseball, have you seen the new upper deck?' I'm also working on, 'Come for the food stay for the fireworks' and 'Best TV in baseball'. Now if I can just get this Cat day off the ground, we should sell exactly 1.499M tickets next season and that will make JR very very happy."

:reinsy
"What's with all these good players expecting to get paid well? Don't they realize it is the uniforms the fans root for. My boy JK said it best, 'Organizations win championships' and that man could tear up a franchise with the best of them."

KingXerxes
01-12-2004, 03:28 PM
While neither optimistic nor pessimistic I have to admit that Kansas City has really shored itself up over the past couple of years. I think Cleveland is only going to get better, and Detroit has to get better. While this division is a total crap shoot in 2004, I don't like the way things are trending over the longer haul. Our farm system seems depleted, and our FA limitations are obvious.

We'll see.

Chisox_cali
01-12-2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Depy 48 says: BELIEVERS BECOME ACHEIVERS
WHITESOX PENNANT 2004

See what happens when you watch to many reality shows while on drugs?

Lip

Man, not only can you see into the future, you can see what people watch on TV and if they do drugs?!?

Seriously, where can I sign up to get these powers? Is there a california division so I don't have to travel far?

Finally, what's the combo? Survivor and LSD? Joe Millionaire and Crack? Fear Factor and Heroine? The Bachlorette and Ludes?

What is it?!

Iwritecode
01-12-2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
Man, not only can you see into the future, you can see what people watch on TV and if they do drugs?!?

Seriously, where can I sign up to get these powers? Is there a california division so I don't have to travel far?

Finally, what's the combo? Survivor and LSD? Joe Millionaire and Crack? Fear Factor and Heroine? The Bachlorette and Ludes?

What is it?!

Not to mention the other 46,128 reality shows on TV. I think some of them are actually as addictive as some drugs...

mike squires
01-12-2004, 04:07 PM
Who would ahve thought we would run away with it in '83? How about coming close in '90? Anybody think we were gong to dominate in 2000? That's what I love about baseball. Every Spring you get to be optimistic. Cubs and Florida in 2003? Who would have thought? Anything can happen and it usually does.

soxtalker
01-12-2004, 04:25 PM
I wouldn't call myself an optimist or pessimist at this point.

This looks to me like a poker game with KW playing his cards very close to the chest. I do think that he is likely to pull off a big trade or two, but the timing is not clear. The rumored trades with Boston (sounds hot this week), LA (doesn't sound too likely any more), and Anaheim (?) would fall into this category, but I could also see KW doing something entirely different. He could also wait until spring training or the season.

The minor acquisitions are also potentially interesting. These seem to fall into the category of KW giving himself options (at low cost).

I must admit that like KingXerxes I am concerned about the future. But I don't know what the farm system really looks like. KW has steadily been putting his stamp on it over the past few years, shipping out RS players.

Finally, one of the posters from the Boston board raised a very interesting issue -- the effect of non-US sales -- that will impact the landscape in the future. How are the Sox positioned for this?

TheRockinMT
01-12-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
I think you mean a true Flubs fan will always think they can win no matter what...

From my short time at this message board, I've come to appreciate that a true Sox fan is BITTER, OUTRAGED, ANGRY, SPITEFUL, AND PUMPED FULL OF A GREAT DEAL OF BOTH RAGE AND SCHADENFREUDE...usually all at once. And it's ultimately better than being a naive flubbie fan.

:thankgod

AND STILL READY FOR BASEBALL SEASON TO BEGIN AND ROOT FOR THE SOX...

Hangar18
01-12-2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Over the past few months, we have seen many posts here which can be generally divided into two camps: the realists who know JR is going to do nothing significant and the optimists who criticize the realists and tell us to wait and that it's still early, etc.

Are there any optimists left?

I got Off the Optimist Express back when we Lost Colon
& Mgmt Started throwing that 58Million number around.

Hangar18
01-12-2004, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
.... but I think KW will try to pull something before Soxfest (ala Colon). I don't think they want to deal with angry mobs.

The Only Thing KW is Pulling is Our Leg if he thinks he can win with a 58 Million Budget hahahahha on JR.

Hangar18
01-12-2004, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I don't know if you can make a Mob out of the three people who will be attending this year.

The average SOX fan is like 5 fans in one ....... so thats 15 people
right there

Tekijawa
01-12-2004, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
SCHADENFREUDE

Hey Baby, I was hoping you could help me out with a Definition on this one?

Baby Fisk
01-12-2004, 05:09 PM
schadenfreude - SHAW-den-FROY-duh (german) - the malicious enjoyment of another's misfortunes. :cool:

Daver
01-12-2004, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Depy 48 says: BELIEVERS BECOME ACHEIVERS
WHITESOX PENNANT 2004

See what happens when you watch to many reality shows while on drugs?

Lip

That was completely uncalled for and unnescescary.

Please refrain from insulting everyone elses intelligence in the future.

mdep524
01-12-2004, 05:25 PM
I don't think there is anything WRONG with being optimistic.

I myself was pretty down on things as of a week ago. But honestly, with recent developments, I see some serious opportunities for the Sox to improve for '04.

The White Sox could engineer possible trades with the Red Sox, who are in an akward position and would like to get rid of one of the best shortstops on the game; the Dodgers, who desperately need ANY offense after losing several opportunities; the Angels, who have a surplus of starting pitching they would like to address; and the Mets, who may be looking to make a big splash because losing out on Vlad left their fans really angry and management disappointed.

Possible players that could be acquired:
Nomar Garciaparra
Trot Nixon
Johnny Damon
Scott Williamson
Odalis Perez
Guillermo Mota
Greg Miller
Edwin Jackson
Jarrod Washburn
Jay Payton (FA)
Damian Moss (FA)

That's a pretty good list, and the Sox have a realistic shot at any of those players. The only players they don't have a chance at are Maddux, Pudge and Ponson. And I know everyone (including me) was complaining about the Sox' inactivity in the early offseason, but really, what did we lose out on? Colon. I would contend there were some moves we should have pursued-- trading for Vazquez was always number one on my list, (and we could have had him), maybe Hawkins or another reliever. Anything else? There really weren't any big time moves that were just sitting on the table for this team, and yet now they have an opportunity to make a couple of moves and put a pretty good team on the field this season.

Despite a few missed opportunities, the chance is still there for this team. I will decide how optimistic or pessimisitc I am after everything plays out.

Lip Man 1
01-12-2004, 07:41 PM
Daver;

Obviously you are reading WAY TO MUCH into that comment. Perhaps it was my fault for not putting it in green (sarcastic).

By that as it may it was not my intention to insult anybody, if I did I apologize.

The bottom line though is that anybody who thinks this team is going to come anywhere close to winning a pennant needs to see Dr. Frasier Crane or any other 'qualified' psychiatrist.

I think we should all consider it a great year if they somehow win 82 games and have a winning season. Based on the level of talent at hand right now, that would qualify Ozzie for Manager Of The Year.

Lip

MarkV
01-12-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Daver;

The bottom line though is that anybody who thinks this team is going to come anywhere close to winning a pennant needs to see Dr. Frasier Crane or any other 'qualified' psychiatrist.

I think we should all consider it a great year if they somehow win 82 games and have a winning season. Based on the level of talent at hand right now, that would qualify Ozzie for Manager Of The Year.

Lip

I totally agree. If the Sox finish over .500 with the team we have now, Ozzie definitely deserves to be Manager of the Year.

Chisox_cali
01-12-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1

The bottom line though is that anybody who thinks this team is going to come anywhere close to winning a pennant needs to see Dr. Frasier Crane or any other 'qualified' psychiatrist.

Lip

Sox Fan: Doctor, I need help.
Doctor: What is it?
Sox Fan: I.....I..... Think that the White Sox will win a pennant.
Doctor: And?
Sox Fan: What? That's it.
Doctor: Get out of my office. Send in somebody with a real problem.
Sox Fan:(Sarcastic) Oh Yeah. Intamicy problems, yeah that's a real problem. I'm rooting for my favorite team here!!
Doctor: Who the hell told you to come here?
Sox Fan: Some guy on a message board.
Doctor: Get out of my office.


And Scene. :)

Daver
01-12-2004, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Daver;

Obviously you are reading WAY TO MUCH into that comment. Perhaps it was my fault for not putting it in green (sarcastic).

By that as it may it was not my intention to insult anybody, if I did I apologize.



The bottom line is this,accusing anyone of drug,be it sarcastic or not,is not funny,and it will not be tolerated.

I really don't think I need to add anything more.

Lip Man 1
01-12-2004, 08:49 PM
The thing that I find interesting about the Sox 'optimists' this season is how their parameters are always changing.

Right after the season ended some were already saying how the Sox were going to re sign their free agents and everything would be fine because after all, the Cubs were winning....

Well that didn't happen so we starting reading about how the Sox would get what they needed at the winter meetings.....

Well that didn't happen so now we are seeing posts about how the Sox always announce something at Sox fest...

So if nothing happens do we start reading posts about how 'there's still plenty of time in spring training to get what we need?'

and if nothing happens there do we start seeing posts about how 'if we can stay in it we'll get what we need in July?'

Folks there's nothing wrong with being an optimist but where and when, do you draw the line and start facing the realization that as long as current ownership is in place if the Sox win anything it's because of blind luck (a la 2000) and not because of a 'grand design.'

Regardless of whether you are a pessimist, optimist, realist, an optimist with realistic tendencies or a pessimist wanting to be optimistic, whatever you call yourself nothing changes until new ownership. When that day happens everything starts fresh and perhaps things can be different. Until then it's same old', same old and the odds are against the Sox even winning the weakest division in baseball let alone reaching the brass ring.

Lip

Palehose13
01-12-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The thing that I find interesting about the Sox 'optimists' this season is how their parameters are always changing.

Right after the season ended some were already saying how the Sox were going to re sign their free agents and everything would be fine because after all, the Cubs were winning....

Well that didn't happen so we starting reading about how the Sox would get what they needed at the winter meetings.....

Well that didn't happen so now we are seeing posts about how the Sox always announce something at Sox fest...

So if nothing happens do we start reading posts about how 'there's still plenty of time in spring training to get what we need?'

and if nothing happens there do we start seeing posts about how 'if we can stay in it we'll get what we need in July?'

Folks there's nothing wrong with being an optimist but where and when, do you draw the line and start facing the realization that as long as current ownership is in place if the Sox win anything it's because of blind luck (a la 2000) and not because of a 'grand design.'

Regardless of whether you are a pessimist, optimist, realist, an optimist with realistic tendencies or a pessimist wanting to be optimistic, whatever you call yourself nothing changes until new ownership. When that day happens everything starts fresh and perhaps things can be different. Until then it's same old', same old and the odds are against the Sox even winning the weakest division in baseball let alone reaching the brass ring.

Lip
Regardless of a person's outlook on the future of the White Sox, we are all fans. It makes me feel better to have hope. If it makes you feel better to sit around and be bitchy and negative, good for you. However, I read your negative posts and pessimism day in and day out and don't say boo to you. I'm not going to change your mind. You seem to enjoy having poor attitude about the White Sox and like to belittle the "optimists". Honestly, do I like Uncle Jerry? Hell no, but I can't change the fact that he owns my favorite ballclub. You have your point of view, and I have my hopes.

Lip Man 1
01-12-2004, 09:38 PM
Palehose:

I don't put down the optimists unless they make a comment or two towards me because of what I feel. It's funny that I am supposed to be tolerant of the optimists but it's OK for them to get tired of what I (and others of my ilk) have to say.

The difference is that I've see 43 years of this garbage including the last 23 with the current ownership. I've stopped wasting my time 'hoping' that the Sox will beat the odds and actually win something of substance. That doesn't make me any less of a fan just like the optimists.

I prefer to know that talent will get my team where it wants to go rather then relying on luck or the fact that others teams in the division have to lose players to increase my chances of winning.

Talent costs money and unfortunately current ownership says they don't have it.

I'm just asking for accountability from the optimists. That they tell me when they have finally reached the line and say 'it's not going to happen' rather then keep changing things to keep their dream alive... that lightening is going to strike, or that the miracle is finally going to happen. (I guess that's why they are optimists because they refuse to grasp reality?)

In my case I've waited 43 years for the miracle.

Funny thing is that my previous post was trying to be conciliatory that no matter what we think, until new ownership comes on board it's going to be a trying sitaution for everyone.

Sorry you took it the wrong way.

Lip

Lip Man 1
01-12-2004, 09:41 PM
Daver:

I understand your ethical position and will abide by your request.

I'm also confident that the next time a poster says the same thing about fans of any other team on this site or uses the graphic about Cub fans brains on drugs (This is your brain etc...) that you'll be equally as vilgilant.

:smile:

Lip

tlebar318
01-12-2004, 09:55 PM
No matter what..I'd still be a Sox fan--for me it is genetic to be so--This thread has had a lot of negativity...to lighten the mood a dumb joke--

What does a female bear on birth control and the World Series have in common? No Cubs!

Anyhow, just playing! I will shut up now...it is just that the tone of this entire conversation seems a bit tense...take it easy and relax...
Beer me! :gulp:

Daver
01-12-2004, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Daver:

I understand your ethical position and will abide by your request.

I'm also confident that the next time a poster says the same thing about fans of any other team on this site or uses the graphic about Cub fans brains on drugs (This is your brain etc...) that you'll be equally as vilgilant.

:smile:

Lip

There is a large difference between generalizing a fan base and singling out a single poster,and I think we can both agree on that.

Palehose13
01-12-2004, 09:56 PM
Lip-
I understand your position and perhaps in 14 years I will feel the same way. I don't understand how an optimist can be held accountable. I can only answer for myself, but each season I am hopeful until the Sox are mathematically eliminated. Then, when the world series ends, I become hopeful again until the same time the following year. I hope I didn't sound too "catty" towards you. It's only a message board and we are all entitled to our opinions. For some of us, it is all we have.

Cheers! :gulp:

P.S. In no way do I think negativity makes someone less of a fan.

MRKARNO
01-12-2004, 10:07 PM
There are a lot of question marks and we could get 95 wins to 80 wins based on how they are answered

tlebar318
01-12-2004, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
There are a lot of question marks and we could get 95 wins to 80 wins based on how they are answered

I prefer to think that KW has something up his sleeve and that eventually the sun will come back out....creativity is the key here in regards to payroll......

One more groaner--

What did Jesus tell the Cubs before he left?
Don't do anything until I come back! :D:

Beer me! :gulp:

TornLabrum
01-12-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Daver
There is a large difference between generalizing a fan base and singling out a single poster,and I think we can both agree on that.

Does this mean we can't say, "I want some of what you're smoking?"

doublem23
01-12-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Over the past few months, we have seen many posts here which can be generally divided into two camps: the realists who know JR is going to do nothing significant and the optimists who criticize the realists and tell us to wait and that it's still early, etc.

Are there any optimists left?

I am still very optimistic about the upcoming season, but that's primarily because the Twins are caving, the Royals just suck (you'll see), the Indians have the worst offense in all of professional baseball (this includes minor and independent leagues), and the Tigers might win 60 games.

The best two words in the English language are DE-FAULT! DE-FAULT!

TommyJohn
01-12-2004, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Chisox_cali
Sox Fan: Doctor, I need help.
Doctor: What is it?
Sox Fan: I.....I..... Think that the White Sox will win a pennant.
Doctor: And?
Sox Fan: What? That's it.
Doctor: Get out of my office. Send in somebody with a real problem.
Sox Fan:(Sarcastic) Oh Yeah. Intamicy problems, yeah that's a real problem. I'm rooting for my favorite team here!!
Doctor: Who the hell told you to come here?
Sox Fan: Some guy on a message board.
Doctor: Get out of my office.


And Scene. :)

Encore! Encore!