PDA

View Full Version : Latest Red Sox/ White Sox trade talk.


otis
01-11-2004, 11:04 PM
Talks have stopped for now but are not dead. There is a lot of posturing on both sides, which is normal for a trade of this magnitude. From what I am told, talks will continue on Thursday.

This is what is known of the deal so far:

1. Magglio/ Valentine/prospect to Boston for Nomar/Williamson/another player.

2. Neither team has any intentions of making additional trades with these players or expanding to a three team trade. If made, Nomar will not be going to the Dodgers and Boston has no intentions of trading for Arod.

3. Reinsdorf is scheduled to meet with Arn Tellem (Nomar's agent) to gauge his interest in signing an extension with the WSox. This is a casual meeting with Boston's approval. Keep in mind that Tellem (agent of many former Bulls, Albert Belle) and JR have a great relationship.

This is what is still pending:

1. The third Boston player. Red Sox want it to be Damon. White Sox want Nixon. There is even an alternate scenario of Byung Yung Kim.

KW will take Damon if he can move Knoerko. Boston has no need or interset in PK. The prospect for Damon would be Cotts. Supposedly, Boston is holding out for Borchard if Nixon is the third player. KW does not want to include Borchard. BYK would cost the Sox Rauch.

This is what I know so far. If it happens, expect it to take place near the end of the month

A.T. Money
01-11-2004, 11:06 PM
Who is Valentine?

ChiWhiteSox1337
01-11-2004, 11:19 PM
thanks for the info...that's very interesting.

WinningUgly!
01-11-2004, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by otis
Talks have stopped for now but are not dead. There is a lot of posturing on both sides, which is normal for a trade of this magnitude. From what I am told, talks will continue on Thursday.

This is what is known of the deal so far:

1. Magglio/ Valentine/prospect to Boston for Nomar/Williamson/another player.

2. Neither team has any intentions of making additional trades with these players or expanding to a three team trade. If made, Nomar will not be going to the Dodgers and Boston has no intentions of trading for Arod.

3. Reinsdorf is scheduled to meet with Arn Tellem (Nomar's agent) to gauge his interest in signing an extension with the WSox. This is a casual meeting with Boston's approval. Keep in mind that Tellem (agent of many former Bulls, Albert Belle) and JR have a great relationship.

This is what is still pending:

1. The third Boston player. Red Sox want it to be Damon. White Sox want Nixon. There is even an alternate scenario of Byung Yung Kim.

KW will take Damon if he can move Knoerko. Boston has no need or interset in PK. The prospect for Damon would be Cotts. Supposedly, Boston is holding out for Borchard if Nixon is the third player. KW does not want to include Borchard. BYK would cost the Sox Rauch.

This is what I know so far. If it happens, expect it to take place near the end of the month

I'd much rather see the Sox do what it takes to get Nomar, Williamson & Damon. I'm not ready to see us give up on Borchard & I'd hate to lose Rauch for BY Kim. I like Cotts, but of these 3 prospects, he's the one that makes the most sense to deal.

jabrch
01-11-2004, 11:58 PM
Thanks Otis. I sure hope this works out for the best - one way or the other.

A. Cavatica
01-12-2004, 12:07 AM
VERY interesting.

Nixon is a better player than Damon, and certainly better value for money, but Damon fits our needs better. If we could get Boston to eat some salary, so Damon cost no more than Nixon, I'd want Damon. Nixon's OBP is fine, but it would be a shame to waste his power by leading him off, and he makes it harder for us to fit in Reed.

I'd trade Borchard in a heartbeat, but I'd expect to get more for him. I'd hate to trade Cotts, and I would only reluctantly trade Rauch. I would rather give up, say, Pacheco.

Win1ForMe
01-12-2004, 12:10 AM
Damon makes more sense than either Nixon or Kim, IMO. It takes care of two needs (CF and leadoff). Obviously, we have to find the right type of idiot to take Konerko off our hands. The trade is still beyond stupid though if Nomar doesn't sign long-term or isn't traded to the Dodgers.

Brian26
01-12-2004, 12:17 AM
I honestly want nothing to do with Kim or the bad karma express that follows him around. Please, for the love of god, don't get Kim.

joecrede
01-12-2004, 12:24 AM
I'd take Kim first, Nixon second and Damon under no circumstance.

How about a rotation of:

Buehrle
Kim
Marte
Loaiza
Garland

Bullpen
Schoenweiss
Wunsch
Pollitte
Koch
Wright
Williamson

Oh yeah, I'd see if I could squeeze a few extra bucks out of the chairman and sign Mondesi to replace Maggs.

lowesox
01-12-2004, 12:26 AM
I'd love if the Sox sent Borchard for Nixon, provided that Boston throws in a million or so. If they can work that, the Sox could sign Jay Payton to play CF. I think Borchard is overated. I think Reed will be the real deal. Here's what that lineup could look like.

1. CF Payton
2. LF Lee
3. DH Thomas
4. SS Garciaparra
5. RF Nixon
6. 1B Konerko
7. 3B Crede
8. C Olivo
9. 2B Harris

Or instead of Payton, the sox could put the extra money towards another starter, like maybe Moss.

A. Cavatica
01-12-2004, 12:32 AM
I agree about Kim and the "bad karma express". I don't think it's bad karma, though, I just think he sucks. The one good thing about Kim is he flips off the home fans. He'd fit right in.

Rex Hudler
01-12-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
I'd take Kim first, Nixon second and Damon under no circumstance.

How about a rotation of:

Buehrle
Kim
Marte
Loaiza
Garland

Bullpen
Schoenweiss
Wunsch
Pollitte
Koch
Wright
Williamson

Oh yeah, I'd see if I could squeeze a few extra bucks out of the chairman and sign Mondesi to replace Maggs.

Marte in the rotation? The shrooms must be pretty strong tonight. LOL

depy48
01-12-2004, 01:04 AM
I have always been a supporter of dirt dog Trot Nixon. So if it is between Kim, Damon, or Trot, I want Trot. His scrappy mentality, and hustle is exactly what the sox need. I might have to hang up my Colon jersey and get a Trot Nixon jersey!! I like this trade, but will it happen?!?

Dan Gelo
01-12-2004, 01:12 AM
I couldn't believe that the Red Sox picked Kim up in the first place, seeing as he had major, major problems with their main competition the previous year. I sure don't want him

mdep524
01-12-2004, 01:20 AM
I want nothing to do with Kim. But I do like both Nixon and Damon, and from what I see, I really like the looks of this trade, if by some miracle it happens.

CubKilla
01-12-2004, 01:23 AM
Originally posted by A.T. Money
Who is Valentine?

I think he meant Valentin.

CubKilla
01-12-2004, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
Marte in the rotation? The shrooms must be pretty strong tonight. LOL

No kidding. Why would you move Marte to the starting rotation when he's as effective as he is as a set-up man?

MarkEdward
01-12-2004, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by Dan Gelo
I couldn't believe that the Red Sox picked Kim up in the first place, seeing as he had major, major problems with their main competition the previous year. I sure don't want him

The guy had a 142 ERA+ this year! He's a dominant reliever and an above-average starter. Aside from this, the Red Sox gave up very little (an overrated Shea Hillenbrand) to get him.

Kim is a great reliever, but I think I'd rather see him start (assuming we get Williamson too). Buehrle, Loaiza, Kim, Garland, and Rauch for our rotation would look very nice.

14konerko
01-12-2004, 01:25 AM
:gulp:

SluggersAway
01-12-2004, 03:00 AM
This trade just sucks!

No Boston player is worth it.

petekat
01-12-2004, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
The guy had a 142 ERA+ this year! He's a dominant reliever and an above-average starter. Aside from this, the Red Sox gave up very little (an overrated Shea Hillenbrand) to get him.

Kim is a great reliever, but I think I'd rather see him start (assuming we get Williamson too). Buehrle, Loaiza, Kim, Garland, and Rauch for our rotation would look very nice.


I think Boston is antsy to deal Kim, if the Sox can get him without shelling out rauch (wright?) it would be great deal. Kim has wicked stuff, is still young, and would excel as a starter (his stated preference) given his durability. Give the guy a break- i think he'd be a solid #3. WOuld be nice then to move Schoenweis back to the pen, and have Rauch/Pacheco/Grilli/or that 31 yr old in the Mexican league content for #5. Also agree with taking Nixon, if it doesn't involve losing Borchard. Bochard/Lee/Reed a very exciting outfield for yrs to come

Man Soo Lee
01-12-2004, 05:21 AM
I can understand why the Red Sox would want to move Damon's contract, but who would lead off for them? Mueller? Would Nixon play centerfield? Who platoons with Jose at shortstop?

If Nixon were included, how are the Red Sox significantly better? Why should they give up a solid setup man to do this?

Unless Nomar has Kevin Millar tied up in his basement, this seems like a lot of unnecessary upheaval for no great benefit to Boston. How hard would it be to say to Nomar, "We offered you a lot of money and you turned it down, so we took a shot at trading a malcontent for the best player in the league. It didn't work out, so welcome back."?

SSN721
01-12-2004, 06:56 AM
I just don't understand the logic of this trade if Nomar isn't signed long term (which I don't see since he expressed his desire to play on the west coast) or sent to the Dodgers for some sort of package of pitching prospects and relievers/starters. Why trade one player that we are supposedly going to lose in a year to another we will lose in a year when Maggs has shown great consistency and is a fan favorite. I don't know on some levels it makes sense, it just seems like a lot of money we still have in payroll when were done when I thought the whole point of trading Maggs was to dump payroll. And I still don't see much of a benefit for Boston in this trade. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, almost like making a move just to make a move.

Randar68
01-12-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by depy48
I have always been a supporter of dirt dog Trot Nixon. So if it is between Kim, Damon, or Trot, I want Trot. His scrappy mentality, and hustle is exactly what the sox need. I might have to hang up my Colon jersey and get a Trot Nixon jersey!! I like this trade, but will it happen?!?

I really like Trot Nixon, but at this point, I'd much rather have Damon in CF (and his 30 SB's in the lineup), allowing Reed and LTP to transition to their more natural positions of LF and RF respectively. Neither one of them is a leadoff hitter and I would not give up a prospect like Cotts, Rauch or LTP in "upgrading" to Nixon from Damon.

As is obvious, in order to take on Damon's contract, the Sox would surely have to dump at least Konerko if not both he and Koch...

The Sox have quite a bit of money freed up over the next 2 years or so, so I still think it may be possible to resign Maggs given Vlad only signing for 14 M per year average... They'd have to be willing to at least do that for Nomar to consider trading for him, and honestly, money being equal, I'd rather have Nomar at SS than Maggs in RF 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

gosox41
01-12-2004, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by A. Cavatica
VERY interesting.

Nixon is a better player than Damon, and certainly better value for money, but Damon fits our needs better. If we could get Boston to eat some salary, so Damon cost no more than Nixon, I'd want Damon. Nixon's OBP is fine, but it would be a shame to waste his power by leading him off, and he makes it harder for us to fit in Reed.

I'd trade Borchard in a heartbeat, but I'd expect to get more for him. I'd hate to trade Cotts, and I would only reluctantly trade Rauch. I would rather give up, say, Pacheco.

If Nixon is a better player then Damon (which I think he is too) then how would Damon fit out needs better? Other then being a lefty I can't think of one reason why I'd want Damon over Nixon. I'll take my chances with Nixon's high OBP and power and hit him lead off.

Bob

gosox41
01-12-2004, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by otis
Talks have stopped for now but are not dead. There is a lot of posturing on both sides, which is normal for a trade of this magnitude. From what I am told, talks will continue on Thursday.

This is what is known of the deal so far:

1. Magglio/ Valentine/prospect to Boston for Nomar/Williamson/another player.

2. Neither team has any intentions of making additional trades with these players or expanding to a three team trade. If made, Nomar will not be going to the Dodgers and Boston has no intentions of trading for Arod.

3. Reinsdorf is scheduled to meet with Arn Tellem (Nomar's agent) to gauge his interest in signing an extension with the WSox. This is a casual meeting with Boston's approval. Keep in mind that Tellem (agent of many former Bulls, Albert Belle) and JR have a great relationship.

This is what is still pending:

1. The third Boston player. Red Sox want it to be Damon. White Sox want Nixon. There is even an alternate scenario of Byung Yung Kim.

KW will take Damon if he can move Knoerko. Boston has no need or interset in PK. The prospect for Damon would be Cotts. Supposedly, Boston is holding out for Borchard if Nixon is the third player. KW does not want to include Borchard. BYK would cost the Sox Rauch.

This is what I know so far. If it happens, expect it to take place near the end of the month

If the Sox are going to keep Nomar, then why bother trading Magglio? Sign Magglio to an extension.

Personally, I'd only do this trade with the idea of sending him to LA for more pitching. Nomar/Williamson/Damon aren't going to make this team a playoff contender next season. But Williamson plus 3 Dodger pitchers + money to spend elsewhere can make this team a contender.

I don't see the excitement that Nomar brings to the table. I don't see an increase in attendece becuse the Sox traded their best player for an East Coast big name player.

Also, I don't see Magglio or Nomar giving up their rights to free agency after being one year away from it unless they get a dea that blows their minds. I can see Boston paying a lot to keep Magglio, but do you really see the Sox doing the same for Nomar?

Bob

gosox41
01-12-2004, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
No kidding. Why would you move Marte to the starting rotation when he's as effective as he is as a set-up man?

You just answered your own question...if you think Marte has the endurance to be a starter that is.

Assuming Marte can keep his velocity, arm strength, etc. for an extended period of time he would be a ton more valuable to this team as a starter. Which is more important 60 IP or 200 IP?

I don't know if Marte has the physical ability to be a starter.

Bob

Randar68
01-12-2004, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
If Nixon is a better player then Damon (which I think he is too) then how would Damon fit out needs better? Other then being a lefty I can't think of one reason why I'd want Damon over Nixon. I'll take my chances with Nixon's high OBP and power and hit him lead off.

Bob

How about this: 30 SB's (6 CS) and he plays CF, allowing Reed and LTP to move to their more natural corner positions. Speed up the middle. If Nixon isn't going to leadoff, then at least give me a CF'er with some ability to steal bases, you know Ozzie is going to want to run...

Randar68
01-12-2004, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
If the Sox are going to keep Nomar, then why bother trading Magglio? Sign Magglio to an extension.

Personally, I'd only do this trade with the idea of sending him to LA for more pitching. Nomar/Williamson/Damon aren't going to make this team a playoff contender next season. But Williamson plus 3 Dodger pitchers + money to spend elsewhere can make this team a contender.

I don't see the excitement that Nomar brings to the table. I don't see an increase in attendece becuse the Sox traded their best player for an East Coast big name player.

Also, I don't see Magglio or Nomar giving up their rights to free agency after being one year away from it unless they get a dea that blows their minds. I can see Boston paying a lot to keep Magglio, but do you really see the Sox doing the same for Nomar?

Bob

Let me see. Similar production, similar money, but one of them plays one of the most demanding and important defensive positions at an All-Star level and the other plays one of the easiest positions to play the field at an MLB middle-to-slightly-above-average level.

Yeah, money being equal, I'd take Nomar 100% of the time.

Randar68
01-12-2004, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
You just answered your own question...if you think Marte has the endurance to be a starter that is.

Assuming Marte can keep his velocity, arm strength, etc. for an extended period of time he would be a ton more valuable to this team as a starter. Which is more important 60 IP or 200 IP?

I don't know if Marte has the physical ability to be a starter.

Bob

None of those would happen. Marte to starter is a disaster waiting to happen. Velocity would decrease and his slider would flatten out. What alwasy has happenned when he's been stretched out in the past and why Pittsburg gave him away for almost nothing.

cornball
01-12-2004, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
I really like Trot Nixon, but at this point, I'd much rather have Damon in CF (and his 30 SB's in the lineup), allowing Reed and LTP to transition to their more natural positions of LF and RF respectively. Neither one of them is a leadoff hitter and I would not give up a prospect like Cotts, Rauch or LTP in "upgrading" to Nixon from Damon.

As is obvious, in order to take on Damon's contract, the Sox would surely have to dump at least Konerko if not both he and Koch...

The Sox have quite a bit of money freed up over the next 2 years or so, so I still think it may be possible to resign Maggs given Vlad only signing for 14 M per year average... They'd have to be willing to at least do that for Nomar to consider trading for him, and honestly, money being equal, I'd rather have Nomar at SS than Maggs in RF 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.

I would rather have Damon too, because of the centerfield issue and the lack of depth in the organization at CF.

It is just a shame with JR being so cheap, all of the additions to the team need to come via trade. It would be nice to have a new player without giving something up in return. Then KW is blamed for it. I just dont understand.

RichH55
01-12-2004, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by cornball
I would rather have Damon too, because of the centerfield issue and the lack of depth in the organization at CF.

It is just a shame with JR being so cheap, all of the additions to the team need to come via trade. It would be nice to have a new player without giving something up in return. Then KW is blamed for it. I just dont understand.

Money doesn't buy happiness, not even in MLB.

Sure it would be easier with 100 million (or even 70), but trading smartly for guys can work for you as well. Drafting guys like Jeremy Reed will help too

Mickster
01-12-2004, 09:50 AM
One of the MAJOR things that is overlooked in this trade is Williamson who has spend the better part of 2 years lobbying to become a starter. Although I feel that he is lights-out as a reliever, with the current sox starting pitching situation, I can honestly see him as a starter for the sox. The red sox might be willing to move him b/c they are unable to fulfill his wishes to become a sp. He is clearly not the worst reliever in their bullpen, not the most overpaid..... What other reason would they be willing to get rid of him?

Deadguy
01-12-2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by otis
Talks have stopped for now but are not dead. There is a lot of posturing on both sides, which is normal for a trade of this magnitude. From what I am told, talks will continue on Thursday.

This is what is known of the deal so far:

1. Magglio/ Valentine/prospect to Boston for Nomar/Williamson/another player.

2. Neither team has any intentions of making additional trades with these players or expanding to a three team trade. If made, Nomar will not be going to the Dodgers and Boston has no intentions of trading for Arod.

3. Reinsdorf is scheduled to meet with Arn Tellem (Nomar's agent) to gauge his interest in signing an extension with the WSox. This is a casual meeting with Boston's approval. Keep in mind that Tellem (agent of many former Bulls, Albert Belle) and JR have a great relationship.

This is what is still pending:

1. The third Boston player. Red Sox want it to be Damon. White Sox want Nixon. There is even an alternate scenario of Byung Yung Kim.

KW will take Damon if he can move Knoerko. Boston has no need or interset in PK. The prospect for Damon would be Cotts. Supposedly, Boston is holding out for Borchard if Nixon is the third player. KW does not want to include Borchard. BYK would cost the Sox Rauch.

This is what I know so far. If it happens, expect it to take place near the end of the month

Thanks for keeping us up to date Otis.

The meeting between Reinsdorf and Tellum will probably determine whether or not this deal will end up going down or not.

SoxxoS
01-12-2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Thanks for keeping us up to date Otis.

The meeting between Reinsdorf and Tellum will probably determine whether or not this deal will end up going down or not.

Considering how much they like each other, I would bet the deal is about 60-40 it IS going to go down.

fledgedrallycap
01-12-2004, 10:40 AM
Do I hear another Soxfest announcement???

jabrch
01-12-2004, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Money doesn't buy happiness, not even in MLB.

Sure it would be easier with 100 million (or even 70), but trading smartly for guys can work for you as well. Drafting guys like Jeremy Reed will help too

I have noticed that usually when people say that, they have plenty of money. It may not buy happiness, but it equates to happiness a whole lot more than poverty does. Some teams (people) will shoot themselves in the foot of misery regardless of how much money they have. Others will be miserable regardless of how much money we have. But when you are particularly poor - and marginally wasteful, it is very hard to truly be happy.

joecrede
01-12-2004, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
No kidding. Why would you move Marte to the starting rotation when he's as effective as he is as a set-up man?

Because an effective starter is more valuable than an effective set up man or closer.

If Wright can be considered as a viable pitcher coming out of the pen (which I agree with), why can't Marte be considered for the rotation? Derrick Lowe has made the transition ...

Rex Hudler
01-12-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by gosox41
You just answered your own question...if you think Marte has the endurance to be a starter that is.

Assuming Marte can keep his velocity, arm strength, etc. for an extended period of time he would be a ton more valuable to this team as a starter. Which is more important 60 IP or 200 IP?

I don't know if Marte has the physical ability to be a starter.

Bob

That would be true for EVERY pitcher.

itchy
01-12-2004, 11:43 AM
Marte has mentioned that he would like to start, for whatever it's worth.

Randar68
01-12-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by itchy
Marte has mentioned that he would like to start, for whatever it's worth.

It's not worth enough to get him or you a cup of coffee. He has been mediocre-to-terrible as a starter his entire career. This is similar to Foulke's infatuatuion with being a starter when closing games effectively is paying him 6 million a year.

voodoochile
01-12-2004, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
It's not worth enough to get him or you a cup of coffee. He has been mediocre-to-terrible as a starter his entire career. This is similar to Foulke's infatuatuion with being a starter when closing games effectively is paying him 6 million a year.

I don't know if that is fair. Marte has proven he has the arm strength to pitch up to 3 innings at a high level and then come back on one day's rest.

I don't know if he can stretch out his arm enough to do it unless he is already working on it, but there are worse things I can think of than Marte getting a crack at the 5th slot in the rotation to start the season. Maybe Ginter or Wright can turn into an effective closer since they can't start :D:

How long would it take Marte to get back into closer form if he did try to make the adjustment to starter and failed? Is there a similar readjustment period to switching from starter to closer as there is going the other way, or can a guy just decide to close and start throwing an inning or two almost every day?

Randar68
01-12-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I don't know if that is fair. Marte has proven he has the arm strength to pitch up to 3 innings at a high level and then come back on one day's rest.

I don't know if he can stretch out his arm enough to do it unless he is already working on it, but there are worse things I can think of than Marte getting a crack at the 5th slot in the rotation to start the season. Maybe Ginter or Wright can turn into an effective closer since they can't start :D:

How long would it take Marte to get back into closer form if he did try to make the adjustment to starter and failed? Is there a similar readjustment period to switching from starter to closer as there is going the other way, or can a guy just decide to close and start throwing an inning or two almost every day?

Here's the problem. As bad as the back of our rotation is looking right now, our bullpen is probably in worse shape. When Marte was a starter, his fastball sat in the 91-92 mph range, not the fastball that sits in the 94-96 range now. He doesn't have the same effectiveness the second time around, either, let alone the third.

Marte would be shot for the first half if they spent all spring trying to work him up to a starter and stretch him out and then tried to throw him back to set-up man in mid April...

Iwritecode
01-12-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Here's the problem. As bad as the back of our rotation is looking right now, our bullpen is probably in worse shape.

I think this is the biggest reason Marte should be left where he is. Right now he's the most effective BP guy on the team.

TaylorStSox
01-12-2004, 01:12 PM
The problem with Marte starting is that he's a 2 pitch guy. The only other 2 pitch starter I can think of is 6'10" and throws 100+ from the left side.

itchy
01-12-2004, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
It's not worth enough to get him or you a cup of coffee. He has been mediocre-to-terrible as a starter his entire career. This is similar to Foulke's infatuatuion with being a starter when closing games effectively is paying him 6 million a year.

He probably won't get a cup of coffee for it, but I bet you that management at least took his order. Really, the pen is too thin to move its best RP into the 5 hole.

Foulke You
01-12-2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by itchy
Really, the pen is too thin to move its best RP into the 5 hole.

EXACTLY. Why would we take out our best and most stable reliever from the bullpen when it is loaded with question marks? Keep "Everyday Marte" right where he is at. If it ain't broke...

mdep524
01-12-2004, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by TaylorStSox
The problem with Marte starting is that he's a 2 pitch guy.

Agreed. With only two pitches and a tricky sidearm motion, Marte is definitely better suited for the pen. At best he'd be an average starter, whereas he is an abover-average reliever. I can't see him being successful facing hitters the second and third times through the order.

hold2dibber
01-12-2004, 06:34 PM
For whatever it's worth, here are the '03 stats for the rumored principal players in the trade:

Nixon: 441 ABs, 306 avg, 28 HR, 87 RBI, 975 OPS
Nomar: 658 ABs, 301 avg, 28 HR, 105 RBI, 870 OPS
Jose: 503 ABs, 237 avg, 28 HR, 74 RBI, 776 OPS
Maggs: 606 ABs, 317 avg, 29 HR, 99 RBI, 926 OPS

Williamson: 62.2 IP, 54 Hs, 34 BBs, 74 Ks, .227 BAA, 1.40 WHIP, 4.16 ERA

And as an aside, Nixon was, and always has been, lousy against lefties (.671 OPS, 3 HR, 10 RBI in 96 ABs last year - although that's still a lot better than Jose's .336 (!!!) OPS against lefties last year). So if the deal were to go through, the Sox still would need someone to play right field against lefties most or all of the time (just like they need someone to play SS against lefties more or all of the time now). Maybe they'd put Uribe at 2B, Harris in CF and move Rowand over to right (which would be a huge downgrade offensively from when Nixon would be in the lineup)?

1060WAddison
01-12-2004, 06:59 PM
If I were Williams, I would do something before Opening Day and if he is resigned to the fact that he can't sign Ordonez long term, perhaps he should consider the Florida Marlins. They offered Vlad a contract of about $12-13 million (just about what Magglio is due) that he turned down and traded Encarnacion, their right fielder to the Dodgers. The only thing is where they put Cabrera vs. Lowell and whether Hee Seop Choi will be playing first or Conine. Perhaps a three team deal between Boston, Florida and Chicago can be worked out to give Florida ultimately Nomar, Boston (via Florida) Ordonez and a package of prospects/major leaguers to the Chicago White Sox.

The bottom line is the White Sox need a handful of everything next year. By freeing up money and possibly acquiring quality prospects in return, at least then perhaps they can make a run at Ponson. At least then, your relief corps would be upgraded, your starting staff upgraded from what you currently have and just maybe your middle infield upgraded in a couple of years. :barney&sham

maurice
01-12-2004, 07:07 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to find a platoon RF who bats righty. Besides, as soon as Reed or Borchard join the team, it becomes a non-issue. Crash would return to his 4th OF role and platoon with Nixon. Plus, Nomar for Jose means that Uribe can platoon with Harris at 2B, instead of with Valentin at SS. If Harris busts, Uribe becomes everyday 2B.


Lineup v. RHP:

1. Reed - CF
2. Lee - LF
3. Garciapara - SS
4. Thomas - 1B
5. Nixon - RF
6. Konerko - DH
7. Crede - 3B
8. Harris - 2B
9. Olivo / Alomar - C


Lineup v. LHP:

1. Reed - CF
2. Lee - LF
3. Garciapara - SS
4. Thomas - 1B
5. Konerko - DH
6. Crede - 3B
7. Rowand - RF
8. Olivo / Alomar - C
9. Uribe - 2B

Not too shabby, IMHO. We'd still need at least one more real good starting pitcher, though.

jordan23ventura
01-12-2004, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler


Marte in the rotation? The shrooms must be pretty strong tonight. LOL


Man, you're hillarious. Great spot for a drug reference, too. Just when something seems improbable you compare it to something you know nothing about. Shrooms will not make you think about baseball!!! They make you think about colors and laughing and where did all the time go? and more laughing.

He used to be a starter ya know. Besides, I'd gladly take my chances with Marte before just about anyone else in any given situation. When he walks out of the bullpen you don't have to close your eyes. Only problem is if he is overworked and can't perform, we've lost one of the best lefty closers in the AL.

jordan23ventura
01-12-2004, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by 1060WAddison
Perhaps a three team deal between Boston, Florida and Chicago can be worked out to give Florida ultimately Nomar, Boston (via Florida) Ordonez and a package of prospects/major leaguers to the Chicago White Sox.
. :barney&sham


Isn't it funny though? Which would you rather have: Maggs on the field 162 games or Ponson every fifth game?

But rebuilding again is inevitable because thats how it works around here. You "rebuild" until you have a solid core of players, you half-ass a run for the division, then no matter what happens when that solid core becomes expense, wave the white flag and put your foot on square one again.

gosox41
01-12-2004, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
That would be true for EVERY pitcher.

Then maybe the Sox should find out. I don't know if he has the ability to bea good starter but right about now the rotation is looking weak.

Bob

gosox41
01-12-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by itchy
He probably won't get a cup of coffee for it, but I bet you that management at least took his order. Really, the pen is too thin to move its best RP into the 5 hole.

If the starters stink, then it doesn't matter how good or bad the pen is.

Bob

gosox41
01-12-2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Let me see. Similar production, similar money, but one of them plays one of the most demanding and important defensive positions at an All-Star level and the other plays one of the easiest positions to play the field at an MLB middle-to-slightly-above-average level.

Yeah, money being equal, I'd take Nomar 100% of the time.

I don't share the Nomar infatuation. But if you see Nomar as that much more valuable then Magglio, Boston must really be missing something since they want want to do this trade.

Bob

Deadguy
01-12-2004, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by gosox41
I don't share the Nomar infatuation. But if you see Nomar as that much more valuable then Magglio, Boston must really be missing something since they want want to do this trade.

Bob

Perhaps the Red Sox have lingering doubts about Nomar's wrist problems.

If we do complete a trade, Nomar should be forced to pass a physical.

He did hit just .170+ in September, so maybe the Red Sox know something we don't.

hold2dibber
01-13-2004, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
Perhaps the Red Sox have lingering doubts about Nomar's wrist problems.

If we do complete a trade, Nomar should be forced to pass a physical.

He did hit just .170+ in September, so maybe the Red Sox know something we don't.

Why would they have lingering doubts about his wrist? He has played full time and performed at a high level for two straight years without missing time because of the wrist. It's a non-issue.