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otis
01-10-2004, 03:53 AM
Sorry to get your hopes up too much. Forgive me because I misunderstood the deal earlier about the prospects which could alter your take on the trade

The basic deal is Magglio/Valentine for Nomar/Williamson/Nixon.

The White Sox would be trading away the top prospect if they can get Nomar to sign an extension. If Nomar decides that he wants to test free agency then the deal would still be made with the Red Sox getting a mid level prospect. Either way, the prospect the White Sox will trade will be a pitcher. Supposedly it could be anyone but Honel.

The minor leaguer the Red Sox would trade would be a low level prospect.

Red Sox brass is having a tough time parting with Trot Nixon and would prefer to move Johnny Damon but the White Sox can not take on his salary unless they move Konerko which doesn't look like it will happen.

Sorry for confusion.

Your pal Otis.

Chisoxfn
01-10-2004, 03:57 AM
Thanks otis. My guess is it will be someone like Cotts/Wright/Rauch depending. I think if they sign him long term, Cotts is gone. Cotts is probably the 2nd best pitching prospect in the organization, you could rank him as the best, but I think many think of him less after a few starts in the majors when he was making a jump from AA.

Don't ask me why people always get down on prospects when they get rushed to the majors and struggle.

lowesox
01-10-2004, 04:29 AM
You know, I'm kind hoping that it would be Rauch. Here's a guy who's had plenty of chances. I know he's been hurt a lot, but it seems more and more like he was overhyped.

Chisoxfn
01-10-2004, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
You know, I'm kind hoping that it would be Rauch. Here's a guy who's had plenty of chances. I know he's been hurt a lot, but it seems more and more like he was overhyped.

I wouldn't shed a tear over that.

jabrch
01-10-2004, 09:08 AM
You have been right before Otis - I hope you are again. I'd love to throw in Konerko and take Damon and cash or something. We could really use a CF/leadoff hitter.

Even the FOC would have to admit that we are better off with Damon than with Crash both offensively and defensively.

gosox41
01-10-2004, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by otis
Sorry to get your hopes up too much. Forgive me because I misunderstood the deal earlier about the prospects which could alter your take on the trade

The basic deal is Magglio/Valentine for Nomar/Williamson/Nixon.

The White Sox would be trading away the top prospect if they can get Nomar to sign an extension. If Nomar decides that he wants to test free agency then the deal would still be made with the Red Sox getting a mid level prospect. Either way, the prospect the White Sox will trade will be a pitcher. Supposedly it could be anyone but Honel.

The minor leaguer the Red Sox would trade would be a low level prospect.

Red Sox brass is having a tough time parting with Trot Nixon and would prefer to move Johnny Damon but the White Sox can not take on his salary unless they move Konerko which doesn't look like it will happen.

Sorry for confusion.

Your pal Otis.

I'm guessing the Sox would then deal Nomar. No way would he want to stay here. And signing him to a long term contract doesn't help alleviate the payroll issues.

If the Sox make this rumored trade (and Otis I hope you're right on the money again) they still won't win next uear. Nixon is far from great. Wlliamson helps the bullpen, but the Sox need about 2 more above average relievers and 2 starters.

I'd rather see Nixon and Rowand fight it out in CF. Then complete the rumored trade with the Dodgers. Getting Williamson plus Mota and Perez and one of the top 2 Dodger pitchinhg prospects makes this team much better for 2004.

Unless of course you like the idea of Garland as your #3 starter and Schoenweis as #4.

Don't even get me going on the possibilty of PK still being traded for Washburn and putting him in the rotation next to Perez.

Bob

PINWHEELS
01-10-2004, 10:01 AM
well i don't like the idea of garland as a #3 starter, we need at least 1 more starter and 1 more middle reliever!

A. Cavatica
01-10-2004, 10:39 AM
I see this going down as Ordonez, Valentin, Wright, & a mediocre prospect for Garciaparra, Damon, Williamson & cash.

spataro51
01-10-2004, 11:13 AM
I hope so, we need this move and having Damon is GREAT! He fills two holes centerfielder/leadoff hitter. and best of all he isnt a free agent at the end of the year.

WillieHarris12
01-10-2004, 11:26 AM
Otis could you ask your source how close this deal is to happening?

WillieHarris12
01-10-2004, 11:28 AM
And if we deal Nomar, what will fans come to see next season? Nomar would score big for our fans, and then the cash could come flowing in. I hope I hope I hope!

A. Cavatica
01-10-2004, 11:29 AM
If Kenny could get this deal done we'd probably have a platoon in right with Rowand & Reed, or possibly Rowand & Borchard. This would be fine with me, because all of these guys are better suited to right than center. And of course it solves our leadoff problem, which may be as critical as our pitching problem.

I'm guessing we would sign Nomar long term if we could at an affordable salary, but there's little chance of that happening. The next best option would be to keep Nomar for a season (half if we fall out of contention) and move Konerko on to LA or Anaheim for pitching. The third option would be to move Nomar along immediately, which would bring a lot more pitching in return, but then we'd have no proven SS and no proven 2B. We might be able to get away with Uribe or Harris alongside a skilled veteran, but together?

If the Red Sox go and acquire A-Rod, and don't send Valentin to Texas in that deal, would it be worth us getting Jose back? Or finding a cheaper alternative somewhere else?

wassagstdu
01-10-2004, 11:41 AM
Deal Nomar after trading Valentin? Huh? I'll take Damon but keep Jose.

Foulke You
01-10-2004, 12:45 PM
Thanks for the update Otis.

I still like the deal even though we would be giving up a prospect. I'm really not that high on the much hyped Jon Rauch and I would hesitate to call Dan Wright a "prospect" at this point. He is pretty much a bust as a starter anyway and has had plenty of chances to show he is a quality MLB pitcher. I would deal either of those two in a second. Cotts shows promise, I'd hate to see him turn into another Buerhle in Boston. I'd include Cotts if we got Damon in return.

It really is a shame that the guy we need to make that deal turn from "good" to "great" is Johnny Damon and now Otis is telling me that the Red Sox Brass WANTS to trade Damon but of course, our Reinsdorfian budget prevents this! Ugh. Perhaps Kenny can find a way to get Boston to pay some of Damon's salary.

I like the idea of Damon, Lee, Thomas, Garciaparra as the top 4 hitters in your order. I'd put those 4 up against anyone else's top 4 in baseball.

joecrede
01-10-2004, 01:13 PM
It's typical of Kenny Williams that he'd rather have Damon than Nixon. Damon is not nearly as good as Nixon and he costs more. Great thinking Kenny.

Foulke You
01-10-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
It's typical of Kenny Williams that he'd rather have Damon than Nixon. Damon is not nearly as good as Nixon and he costs more. Great thinking Kenny.

Damon fits our needs better than Nixon in my opinion. The Sox need:

1. Left handed batters
2. A lead off man
3. A CF

Johnny Damon happens to be all three. I do agree that Damon is overpaid but if KW can somehow get Boston to take on some of his salary, it would fit our needs quite well. KW is trying to fill holes and Damon would fill several. Nixon would simply be a less productive replacement for Magglio.

jabrch
01-10-2004, 01:52 PM
I agree 100% Foulke. We are desperately in need of a CF who can lead off and hit lefty. Damon is perfect - if we can afford him or convince Boston to pay for him.

Originally posted by Foulke You
Damon fits our needs better than Nixon in my opinion. The Sox need:

1. Left handed batters
2. A lead off man
3. A CF

Johnny Damon happens to be all three. I do agree that Damon is overpaid but if KW can somehow get Boston to take on some of his salary, it would fit our needs quite well. KW is trying to fill holes and Damon would fill several. Nixon would simply be a less productive replacement for Magglio.

joecrede
01-10-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Damon fits our needs better than Nixon in my opinion. The Sox need:

1. Left handed batters
2. A lead off man
3. A CF

Johnny Damon happens to be all three. I do agree that Damon is overpaid but if KW can somehow get Boston to take on some of his salary, it would fit our needs quite well. KW is trying to fill holes and Damon would fill several. Nixon would simply be a less productive replacement for Magglio.

Damon/Reed is not as good a replacement for Rowand/Ordonez as Nixon/Reed would be, IMO.

lowesox
01-10-2004, 02:49 PM
To me, Nixon is the most intriguing player in this deal. Have you guys read what the Boston fans have said? He's the player they're least willing to give up. One of them even said that he felt Nixon and Ordonez were a 'push', citing that Nixon had a better year statistically two years ago. And, ok, that may just be what they think, but usally players who fans really like are guys who play hard and clutch and don't make too many stupid mistakes. That's the kind of guy I'd like to see.

joecrede
01-10-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
usally players who fans really like are guys who play hard and clutch and don't make too many stupid mistakes.

Usually is right ... then there's Konerko. :D:

gosox41
01-10-2004, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by WillieHarris12
And if we deal Nomar, what will fans come to see next season? Nomar would score big for our fans, and then the cash could come flowing in. I hope I hope I hope!

Nomar isn't going to help attendece that much. Do you think this team will draw 2.5 million if Nomar is here and the Sox win 75 games?

With the amount of people not renewing, the Sox will have to draw that much more. If this trade is made the Sox are a slightly better team then they are today, but the only way they'll draw is if they are in legitimate contention for the division.

Bob

gosox41
01-10-2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Damon fits our needs better than Nixon in my opinion. The Sox need:

1. Left handed batters
2. A lead off man
3. A CF



For what it's worth:

Damon's career OBP .347
Nixon's career OBP .366

Bob

MarkEdward
01-10-2004, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
To me, Nixon is the most intriguing player in this deal. Have you guys read what the Boston fans have said? He's the player they're least willing to give up. One of them even said that he felt Nixon and Ordonez were a 'push', citing that Nixon had a better year statistically two years ago. And, ok, that may just be what they think, but usally players who fans really like are guys who play hard and clutch and don't make too many stupid mistakes. That's the kind of guy I'd like to see.

Nixon is underrated by most. However, he can't hit lefties, so that kind of limits his abilities. If this trade were to happen, we'd need to sign someone like Raul Mondesi to platoon with him in right field.

Nixon has also played some center in his career, for what it's worth.

jabrch
01-10-2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Damon/Reed is not as good a replacement for Rowand/Ordonez as Nixon/Reed would be, IMO.

Crede, who leads off? Back to Willie Harris?

jabrch
01-10-2004, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Nixon is underrated by most. However, he can't hit lefties, so that kind of limits his abilities. If this trade were to happen, we'd need to sign someone like Raul Mondesi to platoon with him in right field.

Nixon has also played some center in his career, for what it's worth.

That's exactly what I want to do...Bring in a real clubhouse cancer to the mix to platoon at RF. There is a reason why no team is even considering signing him for any sort of money. His skills have diminished and he is a royal pain in the a$$.


How bout we just replace Crash in CF with Damon and let Reed/Borchard play RF?

JRIG
01-10-2004, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
It's typical of Kenny Williams that he'd rather have Damon than Nixon. Damon is not nearly as good as Nixon and he costs more. Great thinking Kenny.

He probably likes Damon because he reminds him of Erstad.

JRIG
01-10-2004, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by MarkEdward
Nixon is underrated by most. However, he can't hit lefties, so that kind of limits his abilities. If this trade were to happen, we'd need to sign someone like Raul Mondesi to platoon with him in right field.

Nixon has also played some center in his career, for what it's worth.

Nixon would be a great replacement in the lineup. He actually has been hitting better away from Fenway the past few years. He Valentin-esque against LHP though. A platoon partner would be ideal.

joecrede
01-10-2004, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Crede, who leads off? Back to Willie Harris?

Reed.