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View Full Version : O's Stacking Deck, Sox Sitting Idle


BeerHandle
01-09-2004, 09:39 AM
Are the Sox in an "A" market or is Baltimore. Last I checked, Baltimore is a "B" market. I'm in Baltimore twice a month for work and I can tell you they are a "B" market. No matter what market the Sox or O's fall within, the one thing is clear that the O's are making moves and the Sox are happy with a not-so-average team. I have been patient with the Sox organization to make some moves (I'm sure you have read my posts in Nov. and Dec.), but I have finally lost it. The opportunity to sign players that could help our team is closing quickly. It is obvious the O's want to compete and the Sox are happy with a mediocre team.

O's Signed
1. BJ Surhoff
2. Mike DeJean
3. Javy Lopez
4. Miquel Tejada
5. Palmeiro (almost complete)
6. Ponson (almost complete)

Come on Sox! Please help our team improve. I don't know if there are any "Esteban Loaiza's" are out there!

Chisox_cali
01-09-2004, 09:45 AM
and they still won't make the playoffs

Tragg
01-09-2004, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Are the Sox in an "A" market or is Baltimore. Last I checked, Baltimore is a "B" market. I'm in Baltimore twice a month for work and I can tell you they are a "B" market. No matter what market the Sox or O's fall within, the one thing is clear that the O's are making moves and the Sox are happy with a not-so-average team. I have been patient with the Sox organization to make some moves (I'm sure you have read my posts in Nov. and Dec.), but I have finally lost it. The opportunity to sign players that could help our team is closing quickly. It is obvious the O's want to compete and the Sox are happy with a mediocre team.

O's Signed
1. BJ Surhoff
2. Mike DeJean
3. Javy Lopez
4. Miquel Tejada
5. Palmeiro (almost complete)
6. Ponson (almost complete)

Come on Sox! Please help our team improve. I don't know if there are any "Esteban Loaiza's" are out there!

The only player on that list that interests me is Ponson

dooda
01-09-2004, 10:18 AM
I like Ponson and Palmeiro. Ponson will eat innings and Palmiero balances the attack from the left side. Also I'd let Frank handle the first base chores, and find out if he really is a better all around hitter than he is as a DH. His defense is adequate and Palmeiro could be his caddie in late innings. I know the pitcher would have to hit if Frank's spot came up but what are pinch hitters for? The way they use relief pitchers these days I don't see a problem with it.

It is a moot point any way because we're not going to spend the money any way..

BeerHandle
01-09-2004, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
The only player on that list that interests me is Ponson

You wouldn't want Tejada or Plameiro on the Sox? Are you nuts?

soxtalker
01-09-2004, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
Are the Sox in an "A" market or is Baltimore. Last I checked, Baltimore is a "B" market. I'm in Baltimore twice a month for work and I can tell you they are a "B" market. ...

I believe that Baltimore has a long history of spending a lot of money on players. (Usually, it hasn't been that wisely spent, but that's not the point I'm trying to make here.) Why they do it and we don't is a good question. One obvious thought is the ownership, but I also think that their market situation is different from ours:

1) One guess is that they virtually have to do it because of the competition in the division from Boston and NY. If those two are guaranteed to finish ahead of you, you can't even be a wildcard team.

2) Another reason is probably their ball park. It was a huge success and probably funded much of their spending throughout the 90's. The attendance, however, has fallen off recently, I believe, so they are probably trying to recapture it.

3) I'm not sure how that A vs. B market rating is set. We "share" our "A" market with the Cubs. The O's also draw from the greater DC area (which they jealously guard whenever there is talk of moving a team there).

4) I wonder what their broadcast revenues are? The Red Sox, for example, have a huge market across New England. Considering the geography, I wonder how far the O's extends, and what that means in terms of revenue.

CubKilla
01-09-2004, 11:38 AM
Real Organizations reload. The White Sox rebuild every 3-4 years, hoping for at least 1 playoff run in that time, then hope MLB doesn't contract or expand teams which may force the White Sox into the more competitve AL East or West.

rdivaldi
01-09-2004, 11:39 AM
Baltimore attendance vs. White Sox attendance

2000 - 3,297,031 vs. 1,947,799
2001 - 3,094,841 vs. 1,766,172
2002 - 2,682,439 vs. 1,676,911
2003 - 2,454,523 vs. 1,939,524

Gee, I wonder where they're getting the money from to buy players?

StepsInSC
01-09-2004, 12:25 PM
I think there is a lot of precedent showing that a team full of superstars thrown together rarely do that great. I'm not trying to excuse the Sox lack of participation but I think there is something to be said for teams and its teammates 'gelling'. Baltimore doesn't really have a core that has been together for a while so while that may sound dumb I just can't see them doing well.

Then when you consider what division they're in...so I refuse to look at their moves and complain about the Sox moves (or lackthereof) relative to the theirs.

BeerHandle
01-09-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by StepsInSC
I think there is a lot of precedent showing that a team full of superstars thrown together rarely do that great. I'm not trying to excuse the Sox lack of participation but I think there is something to be said for teams and its teammates 'gelling'. Baltimore doesn't really have a core that has been together for a while so while that may sound dumb I just can't see them doing well.

Then when you consider what division they're in...so I refuse to look at their moves and complain about the Sox moves (or lackthereof) relative to the theirs.

You make some very valid points. However, how can the Sox not jump at the opportunity to crush our division rivals. We had a chance to pick up some very valuable talent to help us go over the top. We aren't even making an attempt!
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rdivaldi - I agree with your comments. Asn't Uncle Jerry always said if you come I build it. How about, build it and they will come!

MRKARNO
01-09-2004, 04:51 PM
The Orioles are the team of Baltimore....And Washington DC and all points in between and in the metro areas. They are also the team of Northern Virginia. They have a very large area to draw from because of the lack of a team in DC

BeerHandle
01-09-2004, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
The Orioles are the team of Baltimore....And Washington DC and all points in between and in the metro areas. They are also the team of Northern Virginia. They have a very large area to draw from because of the lack of a team in DC

This may be true; however, the Sox aren't making moves to improve and they are doing everything they can.

MisterB
01-10-2004, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
Baltimore attendance vs. White Sox attendance

2000 - 3,297,031 vs. 1,947,799
2001 - 3,094,841 vs. 1,766,172
2002 - 2,682,439 vs. 1,676,911
2003 - 2,454,523 vs. 1,939,524

Gee, I wonder where they're getting the money from to buy players?

Even more noteworthy is that the O's have drawn like that despite being a sub-.500 team for the last 6 years. All I can say is the Sox marketing division sucks big wampum....

StockdaleForVeep
01-10-2004, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by MisterB


Even more noteworthy is that the O's have drawn like that despite being a sub-.500 team for the last 6 years. All I can say is the Sox marketing division sucks big wampum....


Lets not forget they had a huge marketing tool in cal ripken jr for a while, he was a large catalyst in drawing, so having a fan friendly record breaker on your team will up yer attendence. Im sure if bonds was traded to texas and texas had a typical season, they would draw alot still.

Rex Hudler
01-10-2004, 01:53 PM
Even more noteworthy is that the O's have drawn like that despite being a sub-.500 team for the last 6 years. All I can say is the Sox marketing division sucks big wampum....

The Orioles Marketing department had nothing to do with their attendance. They have an extremely loyal fan base that has been even magnified by the success of Camden Yards.

The bottom line is the Orioles have revenue streams the White Sox don't even dream of. The fact that sharing Chicago does not equal to having Baltimore, DC and Northern VA all to yourself has already been made, so no need to rehash that.

Rex Hudler
01-10-2004, 01:55 PM
The other point here that has nothing to do with the Sox is what the Orioles are doing. Look at their pitching. I challenge anyone to look at their marginally better than some AAA rotations. Even if they sign Ponson, their rotation sucks.

Be careful what you wish for, because this is not a makeup of a team I think Sox fans would want.

BeerHandle
01-10-2004, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Lets not forget they had a huge marketing tool in cal ripken jr for a while, he was a large catalyst in drawing, so having a fan friendly record breaker on your team will up yer attendence. Im sure if bonds was traded to texas and texas had a typical season, they would draw alot still.


Doesn't Texas have the best player in baseball...Wait, what is his name?, Oh, A-ROD!

Bad reasoning why the O's have a loyal fan base and that they are loading up to compete in what will be one of the toughest divisions in all of baseball!

soxtalker
01-10-2004, 02:02 PM
Does anyone on the board have experience with what the commute is like to Camden Yards from the surrounding areas -- including DC and Northern Virgnina? One of the big problems that the Sox have is that it is a pretty long commute from the fan base in the western suburbs. (The same is true for the Cubs, but they also have more affluent areas nearby in the city.)

DirtySouthsider
01-10-2004, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Rex Hudler
The other point here that has nothing to do with the Sox is what the Orioles are doing. Look at their pitching. I challenge anyone to look at their marginally better than some AAA rotations. Even if they sign Ponson, their rotation sucks.

Be careful what you wish for, because this is not a makeup of a team I think Sox fans would want.

I agree...you hit the nail on the head. You can look at the Rangers for another example of this....or the Rangers last year....or the Cardinals last year......