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View Full Version : Rumored trade between White Sox and Dodgers


savafan
01-02-2004, 08:53 PM
Whitesox get
Odalis Perez
Dave Roberts
G Mota
G Miller

Dodgers get
Magglio Ordonez
Joe Borchard
Neal Cotts
Scott Showenweiss

SoxxoS
01-02-2004, 08:56 PM
:chunks

MarqSox
01-02-2004, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by savafan
Whitesox get
Odalis Perez
Dave Roberts
G Mota
G Miller

Dodgers get
Magglio Ordonez
Joe Borchard
Neal Cotts
Scott Showenweiss
Source?

PaleHoseRon
01-02-2004, 09:03 PM
Where is this from?

I would like to think that KW is not going to trade that many prospects to get that little in return!

soxfan26
01-02-2004, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by savafan
Whitesox get
Odalis Perez
Dave Roberts
G Mota
G Miller

Dodgers get
Magglio Ordonez
Joe Borchard
Neal Cotts
Scott Showenweiss

Where did you gear about this?

savafan
01-02-2004, 09:03 PM
The only sources right now are posters on aol and one at the Orioles message board saying that it is a done deal, but since I can't back that up, I posted that it is rumored.

WinningUgly!
01-02-2004, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by savafan
The only sources right now are posters on aol and one at the Orioles message board saying that it is a done deal, but since I can't back that up, I posted that it is rumored.

Whew...I feel better now.

Brian26
01-02-2004, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by savafan
Whitesox get
Odalis Perez
Dave Roberts
G Mota
G Miller

Dodgers get
Magglio Ordonez
Joe Borchard
Neal Cotts
Scott Showenweiss

Without reading another reply past the first post in this thread, this is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever seen on this board. That's insane.

Brian26
01-02-2004, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Whew...I feel better now.

LOL. Exactly. Pass the gin.

A. Cavatica
01-02-2004, 09:25 PM
The way I heard it, the Sox are hanging on to Schoeneweis and throwing in Honel and Reed.

duke of dorwood
01-02-2004, 09:30 PM
:ohno

soxwon
01-02-2004, 09:56 PM
maggs is woth perez and mota alone, dont do this we are gettin nothing proven in return!!!
whos dave roberts

pearso66
01-02-2004, 10:19 PM
roberts is their center fielder. He's actually pretty fast, for most of the season last year he was 2nd in stolen bases behind juan pierre

joecrede
01-02-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by soxwon
maggs is woth perez and mota alone, dont do this we are gettin nothing proven in return!!!
whos dave roberts

But Miller's probably worth more than Borchard and Cotts.

soxfan26
01-02-2004, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by pearso66
roberts is their center fielder. He's actually pretty fast, for most of the season last year he was 2nd in stolen bases behind juan pierre

Roberts is also 32 years old and has never played more than 127 games in a season.

idseer
01-02-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
:ohno

what is with this pic? ok, the guy on the left is playing a harmonica i guess. the guy on the right is a music critic?
and how does it relate to this thread? :smile:

ScottyTheSoxFan
01-02-2004, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by idseer
what is with this pic? ok, the guy on the left is playing a harmonica i guess. the guy on the right is a music critic?
and how does it relate to this thread? :smile:

that is the pic to post when you are sick to your stomach because of a blowout loss, horrible trade/trade rumor or any other sox related thing that makes you want to hurl

CLR01
01-02-2004, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by idseer
what is with this pic? ok, the guy on the left is playing a harmonica i guess. the guy on the right is a music critic?
and how does it relate to this thread? :smile:


No, I think the guy on the right is embarrassed his buddy keeps ordering tropical drinks and drinking them from a straw.

jeremyb1
01-02-2004, 11:00 PM
This deal is no worse than the other Maggs deals that I've heard proposed. We'd clear around 14 million in salary, fill holes by adding a centerfielder/leadoff hitter with strong on base skills and an outstanding setup man, and we'd win the prospects swap by dealing Borchard and Cotts for Miller. Perhaps we then use the money we've saved to sign Juan Gone and Ponson. If that were to happen I think we probably improve our team. Maggs isn't better than someone like Gonzalez or Everett by a margin of three impact players in the pen, the rotation, and centerfield/leadoff.

mike squires
01-02-2004, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Without reading another reply past the first post in this thread, this is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever seen on this board. That's insane.


:hawk

This is BS

jordan23ventura
01-03-2004, 01:00 AM
Why do the Dodgers - and only the Dodgers - keep popping up in trade rumors?

Dadawg_77
01-03-2004, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by idseer
what is with this pic? ok, the guy on the left is playing a harmonica i guess. the guy on the right is a music critic?
and how does it relate to this thread? :smile:

It is two guys watching game three game of the 2000 ALCS. The bunt was just laid down.

Dadawg_77
01-03-2004, 01:40 AM
If this is true that Kenny even discussed this, even Daver might agree with this one, keeping Kenny and getting rid of Evens was one of JR worse mistakes. Please fire him now before he can pull the trigger, JR, please.

Daver
01-03-2004, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If this is true that Kenny even discussed this, even Daver might agree with this one, keeping Kenny and getting rid of Evens was one of JR worse mistakes. Please fire him now before he can pull the trigger, JR, please.

Look at what Dan Evans has done to the Dodgers farm system in the last two years.

I doubt this has any basis in fact.

gosox41
01-03-2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by savafan
Whitesox get
Odalis Perez
Dave Roberts
G Mota
G Miller

Dodgers get
Magglio Ordonez
Joe Borchard
Neal Cotts
Scott Showenweiss


KW would be dumb enoug to make this trade.

Bob

Tragg
01-03-2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If this is true that Kenny even discussed this, even Daver might agree with this one, keeping Kenny and getting rid of Evens was one of JR worse mistakes. Please fire him now before he can pull the trigger, JR, please.

If kenny were to make that deal, it might be true.
Based on results to date, I'll take KW over DE in a heartbeat

soxtalker
01-03-2004, 12:35 PM
Does anyone know of a Dodger board that is somewhat equivalent to WSI? I'm curious as to what their fans are saying about this rumor.

Most of the postings in this thread have been very negative about this trade, but they've been more emotional and rather sparse on data about the players involved. I'm wondering if we aren't tending to place a higher value on the players in our system that we know. If I recall correctly from earlier threads and articles, isn't Miller their top-rated minor (and very close to major) league ball player -- one that they really don't want to give up?

habibharu
01-03-2004, 01:20 PM
wow, this is a horrible trade! unless we got one or two other prospects i.e. jackson,loney,gutirrez,there is no way this could turn out good. and by the way where the hell is cliff polite!?

RichH55
01-03-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
If this is true that Kenny even discussed this, even Daver might agree with this one, keeping Kenny and getting rid of Evens was one of JR worse mistakes. Please fire him now before he can pull the trigger, JR, please.


Wow...using a lot of big big IFs to take a shot at KW

Dan Evans has simply been terrible as a GM, and he had a lot more to work with IMHO


How about we hold the we must fire KW musings to when he actually makes a bad trade like this...which he is not going to make mind you

This is just like the Griffey Jr. rumors...much ado about nothing so calm down

habibharu
01-03-2004, 01:52 PM
its funny though how we hate the trade and the dodgers fans also hate it. they looked up borchards stats and said who is this guy, he sucks!? wow. they seem to think its one sided in our favor

TheRockinMT
01-03-2004, 01:53 PM
The rumored trade stinks and that's the bottom line. Somebody is getting carried away with their imagination. Probbaly a Cub poster started this...

santo=dorf
01-03-2004, 02:13 PM
:hawk

"THAT IS BS!!!"

Palehose13
01-03-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by savafan
Whitesox get
Odalis Perez
Dave Roberts
G Mota
G Miller

Dodgers get
Magglio Ordonez
Joe Borchard
Neal Cotts
Scott Showenweiss

I don't think this is such a bad deal. The sox get a #3 starter, a CF that can steal bases (seems to be a "grinder"), a quality reliever, and a very highly touted pitching prospect while giving up a power hitting corner with a big salary on the last year of his contract, a minor league OF that was highly touted but now doesn't look all that promising, a promising pitching prospect, and a reliever/#5 starter that we aren't even sure we want to keep.

This would fill holes (SP, CF, and pen) while freeing up money.

longshot7
01-03-2004, 03:17 PM
Hopefully, this is just another musing of someone bored with the offseason.

I follow the Dodgers pretty regularly and I see these guys in action. Ordonez could be worth Perez, Mota, & Roberts. First of all, Roberts would be a throw-in - he plain sucks - he lost all his speed in the 2nd half last year & cannot hit a lick. Rowand is better than he is and that's not saying much. Borchard & Cotts have potential - why get rid of them now? Maybe Cotts, but I don't see Joe being traded anytime soon. Miller will be good, but he's not their #1 prospect. I'd trade Borchard for Edwin Jackson - he will be a stud, but I doubt he'll be traded.

and to whoever said it first, you're right. Dan Evans is a moron - he's had a LOT more to work with than us (the 2nd or 3rd highest payroll in the game) and done squat. KW is at least trying. Kenny wouldn't have traded Gary Sheffield for Brian Jordan.

Tragg
01-03-2004, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
I don't think this is such a bad deal. The sox get a #3 starter, a CF that can steal bases (seems to be a "grinder"), a quality reliever, and a very highly touted pitching prospect while giving up a power hitting corner with a big salary on the last year of his contract, a minor league OF that was highly touted but now doesn't look all that promising, a promising pitching prospect, and a reliever/#5 starter that we aren't even sure we want to keep.

This would fill holes (SP, CF, and pen) while freeing up money.

Perez is more like a 4th-5th starter
Roberts had a horrific OBP last year, has no power at all and doesn't fill any hole.
We give up our best pitching prospect, our best hitting prospect.

Extraordinarily one-sided deal.

Daver
01-03-2004, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Tragg

We give up our best pitching prospect,



Since when did Neal Cotts become the Sox best pitching prospect?

munchman33
01-03-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
Perez is more like a 4th-5th starter
Roberts had a horrific OBP last year, has no power at all and doesn't fill any hole.
We give up our best pitching prospect, our best hitting prospect.

Extraordinarily one-sided deal.

1. Odalis Perez is a great pitcher, and a number two on most staffs.

2. Our best hitting prospect is Jeremy Reed.

3. Our best pitching prospect is Kris Honel.

I do however agree that Roberts would not be our solution in center field.

Jjav829
01-03-2004, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
1. Odalis Perez is a great pitcher, and a number two on most staffs.

2. Our best hitting prospect is Jeremy Reed.

3. Our best pitching prospect is Kris Honel.

I do however agree that Roberts would not be our solution in center field.

Odalis Perez? Great? The same Odalis Perez who sported a wonderful 4.52 ERA while pitching his home games in pitcher friendly park? The same Odalis Perez who has had an ERA under 4 exactly once in 5 games and has a career ERA of 4.24 having pitched his whole career in the NL? That Odalis Perez is great? Hes not a #2 on any good staff. Sure, he'd be the #2 on the dregs of baseball (Tigers, Devil Rays, Orioles, Rangers, Pirates, etc.) but theres not a single good team that would consider him a #2 pitcher.

longshot7
01-04-2004, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Odalis Perez? Great? The same Odalis Perez who sported a wonderful 4.52 ERA while pitching his home games in pitcher friendly park? The same Odalis Perez who has had an ERA under 4 exactly once in 5 games and has a career ERA of 4.24 having pitched his whole career in the NL? That Odalis Perez is great? Hes not a #2 on any good staff. Sure, he'd be the #2 on the dregs of baseball (Tigers, Devil Rays, Orioles, Rangers, Pirates, etc.) but theres not a single good team that would consider him a #2 pitcher.

Agreed. Again, I've watched him the last two years. He's okay - a project IMO - but definitely not the savior everyone thinks he will be. This reminds me of the Astacio trade many people wanted done two years ago - and where is he now - I thought so. Perez might be worth Cotts or Rowand, or a lower level prospect, but not Maggs, Borchard, or Schoenweis.

jeremyb1
01-04-2004, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Roberts had a horrific OBP last year, has no power at all and doesn't fill any hole.

I totally disagree. Roberts posted a .330 OBP, approximately league average, despite hitting only .250 last season. The year before he had an above average .350 OBP. He's a better leadoff candidate than anyone we have on our club right now. Outside of Maggs and Frank who are middle of the lineup hitters, we don't have many OBP guys.

Tragg
01-04-2004, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Since when did Neal Cotts become the Sox best pitching prospect?
Our best pitching prospect who's near major league ready. Is that untrue? Maybe Rausch.

PaulDrake
01-04-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by soxwon
maggs is woth perez and mota alone, dont do this we are gettin nothing proven in return!!!
whos dave roberts Perez and Mota? Why? I'm sitting here at the keyboard trying to find the right words. Those two bring to mind the old fashiioned word bum, in this case bums.

SoxxoS
01-04-2004, 11:31 AM
At least Greg Miller is a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, this guy is obviously a stud...

Hangar18
01-04-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
This deal is no worse than the other Maggs deals that I've heard proposed. We'd clear around 14 million in salary, fill holes by adding a centerfielder/leadoff hitter with strong on base skills and an outstanding setup man

1st Off, this is a HORRIBLE trade for the WhiteSox.
Yeah, lets send the Most marketable guy, a guy that hits
.300 with aton of Homers and Rbi. Now....This is What
Im Hating about this Salary thing. Look How Uncle Jerry
has got US HERE SAYING "we can clear 14 mill in salary".
WE DONT NEED TO CLEAR SALARY. ITS A BUNCH OF BS.
THe sox should HONOR their Committment to his Salary
and the SOXFAN BASE. Reinsdorfs doing the equivalent of
Getting that New Charge Card, Running the Balance to the Limit,
Then Declaring Bankruptcy so he doesnt have to pay.
IM sick of Reinsdorf and this organizational Thinking.....
The other thing......WE'd be getting rid of Arguably, Our best player in years, simply to FILL HOLES WE CREATED ???
How Stupid can this organization be ???

Hangar18
01-04-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
Perez might be worth Cotts or Rowand, or a lower level prospect, but not Maggs, Borchard, or Schoenweis.


Amen. Brother Longshot has spoken. I tend to think
GM's come to the SOX with the most ridiculous trade proposals, knowing Kenny
A) May not be too bright
B) Is Fiscally Handcuffed, thus leading to the possibility of A)

kittle42
01-04-2004, 02:46 PM
Why are we even discussing this trade when it's completely unfounded b.s.?

kempsted
01-04-2004, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by savafan
Whitesox get
Odalis Perez
Dave Roberts
G Mota
G Miller

Dodgers get
Magglio Ordonez
Joe Borchard
Neal Cotts
Scott Showenweiss

I don't see what people are getting worked up about. This is not that bad. Showenweiss was almost not even offered a contract so we can't value him too much. Borchard strikes out too much and probably won't go anywhere. We know that Ordonez is overpriced and will be gone next year - and most likely we will trade him for something. Cotts is the question mark here but he was the player to be named later in the Koch deal.

We get pitching which is what we want and someone who can play center.

soxtalker
01-04-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Why are we even discussing this trade when it's completely unfounded b.s.?

If we only discussed trades that had a good factual basis -- i.e., weren't just rumors -- we'd probably have very little to discuss. KW, in particular, and the Sox organization, in general, don't let much out. So, we end up relying upon rumors that essentially come from elsewhere.

Lately, there hasn't been very much to discuss. Whether you liked the trade or not, it was pretty exciting when the Arod deal was smoldering.

duke of dorwood
01-04-2004, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by kittle42
Why are we even discussing this trade when it's completely unfounded b.s.?

Maybe because our team is so inactive, there's nothing but rumors

duke of dorwood
01-04-2004, 05:28 PM
Right now next season is a rumor

kittle42
01-04-2004, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by soxtalker
Whether you liked the trade or not, it was pretty exciting when the Arod deal was smoldering.

Agreed, but at least we all knew from reputable sources that the whole thing actually was happening. I know we have nothing to talk about, but "I saw this on an Orioles fan board and also at the site of this guy who says he knows someone who knows baseball people," to me, also qualifies as "nothing."