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hsnterprize
12-31-2003, 07:02 AM
Hey Sox fans,

If any of you are familiar with Chicago Sun-Times media columnist Robert Feder, you know he often vents frustration with the way some TV and/or radio outlets are performing. Well, this morning, he published his best/worst for 2003, and I confess...I think it's an interesting list.

Here's a link to his article... (http://www.suntimes.com/output/feder/cst-fin-feder31.html)

However, there was one significant thing left out, and I wrote him to let him know what that series of events was. And here's what I said...

Mr. Feder,

Let me first of all I read your column religiously. As a member of the media, I respect and appreciate your insights and reports on the local media. I'm looking forward to the day when my name is mentioned in your column. But, like others, I have a "bone to pick with you" about some of the stuff you write...or in this case, did NOT write. I'll elaborate...

In this morning's column, you write about the best and worst of Chicago TV and radio for the year. I noticed before the start of the football season on how you were constantly on Mark Shanowski's (sp?) case for wearing Bears jackets when hosting his pre-game shows before pre-season games. Now, I personally don't have an opinion about that...if the stations higher-up's don't complain about that, then to me, it's just a detail now dwelling upon. However, there was some major "infractions" of journalism happening just around the time the Bears were starting that I have yet to see you write about...the apparent selling-out of objectivity of the coverage of the Cubs' playoff run. Perhaps you did mention what I'm about to write about...I just didn't see it. That coverage to me is the biggest radio and TV gaff of 2003.

In case you didn't notice, there was so much Cubs coverage during theiry playoff run, especially when they were playing for the National League Pennant, that almost every sports and news reporter in this town dropped their standards for covering an event objectively and let their "Cubbie Colors" come out in force. Look...we both know there are a LOT of Cub fans in the press. And there's really nothing wrong with that at first. I'm personally am a Sox fan (for the sake of full disclosure), but I'm not complaining about this because my team choked out of the playoffs late in the season. I'm writing this because there was such overkill in covering the Cubs, I believe part of the reason why the Cubs lost to the Florida Marlins had something to do with the press' apparent arrogance that the Cubs would beat Florida. Let's face it...especially after game 5 of that series when the Marlins won and the series was heading back to Chicago, there was so much reporting of "it's in the bag", or "the Cubs will win", or something relating to the "inevitible" Cub pennant win, that no one even bothered to get out of their lazy-Cubbie butts and give the Marlins any credit for making it as far as they did. I'm a sports reporter, and I'll give you a couple of statistics...when the Marlins played the Giants in their division series, the Giants were not only the defending National League Champions, but had beaten the Marlins 5 out of 6 times the teams played during the regular season. Also, when Jack McKeon took over the Marlins, he led the team from a lackluster start to having the best record in baseball from May to the end of the season. I guess the notion of the Cubs getting into the World Series for the first time since Jesus walked the Earth was too much for people to get over.

I know I'm rambling, but the premise is clear. If Mark Giangreco has to apologize for being too much of a "Cub lackey" after the Titanic-like sinking of the Cubs in game 7 of that series, you KNOW something wasn't right. The only other people who mentioned anything about a possible overkill for the Cubs was John Jackson in a subsequent column mentioning a lack of "journalistic integrity", and NBC 5's Dick Johnson the morning after saying the "obsession" for the Cubs was ending. Several reporters were talking about how dejected they were after the loss...oh boo-hoo. Get off your Cubbie soap box and call it like it is...like a reporter is supposed to do. There were many reasons why Sox fans like myself were cheering when the Cubs lost that series. One of them was the falling of the media's "Tower of Babel" in following the Cubbie bandwagon. It was only after that loss that reporters and such got back to actually doing their jobs instead of cheerleading.

If Mark Shanowski wearing a Bears jacket got on your bad side, then I can only assume the way the Cubs were being covered during their playoff run, from newscasts originating from across the street from the ballpark, to 20 out of 30 minutes devoted to Cubs-related stuff, must have really gotten under your skin. I understand the Cubs were a HUGE story in 2003, but come on...stories on TV about fans decorating their houses to shrine the Cubs and where Dusty Baker gets his toothpicks from?!?!?!?!? Give me a doggone break!!!!! Many reporters and such had been kissing so much Cubbie-butt during that playoff run that I swear their lips were turning blue. I know the loss happened months ago, but as long as there are stories like the Harry Caray's manager buying that "dreaded ball" for over $100,000 to try and reverse the Cubs curse, then you know Cub fans, whether in the press or not, have NOT gotten over the loss. And as a reporter, I'll call the action straight...but I and other Sox fans won't let Cub fans forget...they were 5 outs away from glory until Steve Bartman and an Alex Gonzalez error took it away. Does that goat still stink?

Does that pretty much express how many of us, if not ALL of us felt about the media's fawning over the Cubs in 2003? Even people at my radio station were fawning over the Cubs, and many of them were "Johnny..." and "Jenny Come Latelys" jumping on the bandwagon. Well, it was great to rub it in their faces when the greatest choke in modern sports history happened. That sign at McNally's said it all the night the Cubs lost...IGNORE THE MEDIA...ROOT FOR THE MARLINS!!!!! Oh...how right they were.

Hangar18
12-31-2003, 08:09 AM
... That sign at McNally's said it all the night the Cubs lost...IGNORE THE MEDIA...ROOT FOR THE MARLINS!!!!! Oh...how right they were.[/font][/color] [/B]

And I made that Sign too! There was a Miami
tv station that took a picture of it also....so the "word" got out.

hsnterprize
12-31-2003, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
And I made that Sign too! There was a Miami
tv station that took a picture of it also....so the "word" got out. And thanks for making that sign. Believe me...I tried my best to try to debunk the Cubbie-love propaganda. Of course, I talked about Cub playoff games when I was on the air...they were a big story. I'll concede to that. But, it's one thing to talk about how the Cubs made the playoffs and such, but it's another thing to fawn over the team so much that it appeared that news and sports directors were looking for anything to fill time with Cubs-related stories. If you want to go over how Moises Alou's clutch-hitting helped the Cubs down the stretch...fine. But, it you're flying to Atlanta and/or Miami to talk about the lack of enthusiasm of their fans to their team vs. the arrogance of the Cubs fans in such cities, that's too much.

I remember one WGN story in particular. I think CBS 2 did something like this too. Reporters wen to Miami to do stories on how the local fans were getting ready for the NLCS, and Cubs fans visiting there. The reporters talked about the lax attitude of the people in Miami vs. the utter vigilance of Cubs fans who seemed to pop up out of nowhere to support their team. There was one scene on WGN where a family was divided over who would win the N.L. pennant. I think there were 5 people in the family (husband, wife, 3 kids), and everyone except the wife were rooting for the Cubs. Obviously, she was a smart lady.

Need I say more?

Lip Man 1
12-31-2003, 01:37 PM
HSN:

If you thought it was bad last year wait till you see what happens opening day and if the Cubs (as expected) get off to a good start during the season.

Lip

Foulke You
12-31-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
HSN:

If you thought it was bad last year wait till you see what happens opening day and if the Cubs (as expected) get off to a good start during the season.

Lip

You are so right Lip. I'm shuddering at the thought of a probable hot start for the Cubs. They play NL Central "Powerhouses" Pittsburgh and Cincinnatti for 14 of the first 17 games of the year. UGH! The Cubbie media war machine will be in full throttle.

Of course, the media will be forced to take notice of the Sox as Juan Uribe and Willie Harris under the tutelage of Guillen, provide the huge sparkplug the team needs to explode out of the gate in the AL Central.

Lip Man 1
12-31-2003, 05:58 PM
Foulke:

Of course...those first six games against Kansas City and the Yankees all on the road are going to be money in the bank!

LOL

Lip

hsnterprize
01-05-2004, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
HSN:

If you thought it was bad last year wait till you see what happens opening day and if the Cubs (as expected) get off to a good start during the season.

Lip Get this...Feder wrote me back the next day, and he gave me his phone number because he wants to "talk about it." I called him this morning, and the number is legit. I'll talk with him soon, and we'll see what happens.

jabrch
01-05-2004, 08:52 AM
Cool. This ought to be interesting!

jabrch
01-05-2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Foulke:

Of course...those first six games against Kansas City and the Yankees all on the road are going to be money in the bank!

LOL

Lip


Green? What's that mean Lip? Negativity? Or positive cash flow for JR?

:)

hsnterprize
01-05-2004, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Cool. This ought to be interesting! Now here's something to crow about...believe it or not, Robert Feder actually AGREES with what I told him. He sent me a voice mail saying he appreciated me taking the time to write out the note I gave him. He agreed with me in all points, and he said the reason why he was targeting Mark Shanowski for his Bears wear during the pre-season was because that was one specific incident that violated journalistic ethics. Granted, many fans don't really care if the reporter on the sidelines wears the home team (at least the home broadcasted team) colors, but there is supposed to be a sense of objectivity when reporting on stuff like that. We don't have to write about all the Cubbie-bias in the press, but it's good to know that someone in the media noticed the discrepancies.

While he agreed my points about the media following, or should I say "fawning over" the Cubs were 100% true, he didn't harp on that because it was such a media-wide fawning. Both print and electronic media were on the Titanic thinking they were sailing to the promised land known as the World Series. Instead, their belived Cubbies carelessly crashed into a Florida Marlin shaped iceberg and sank as they were about to reach the port. When he ended his message, he re-emphasized he appreciated my thoughts. I appreciate his taking the time to read and ponder what I said. There is hope the Cubbie empire has more chinks in the armor than we know. Keep up with the attack.

I'll try to call him back to get some more comments. But it seems like we're on to something.

Northside fan
01-05-2004, 04:54 PM
HSN,
What exactly do you think contacting a member of the media is going to do to stop the attention the Cubs get? WOW!! Robert Feder agreed with you about the Cubs media attention. What next, Michael Sneed?

Hangar18
01-05-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
HSN,
What exactly do you think you contacting a member of the media is going to do to stop the attention the Cubs get? WOW!! Robert Feder agreed with you about the Cubs media attention. What next, Michael Sneed?

Maybe to show various media members how they
look like jackwags pandering to cub fans and breaking
all journalistic codes of conduct in writing cubfluff stories
as opposed to cub news stories. there is a difference you know.

Northside fan
01-05-2004, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Maybe to show various media members how they
look like jackwags pandering to cub fans and breaking
all journalistic codes of conduct in writing cubfluff stories
as opposed to cub news stories. there is a difference you know.

I don't think your argument holds any water and I'm not saying that just because I'm a Cubs fan. Exactly what did you expect the media to cover during the Cubs playoff run? They were 5 outs from the series, it WAS BIG NEWS and not just locally. Do you really think that if the Cubs make the playoffs next year and the Sox are sitting at home the media will say-We better not cover the Cubs too much otherwise Hangar and other Sox fans will be upset? C''mon man! They could care less what you think. They would not care what I thought if the roles were reversed. Furthermore, if the Sox make the playoffs next year and the Cubs are not in it, you can expect the media to cover the Sox just as much should they come within 1 game of the series. I certainly would EXPECT that type of coverage and I would not be upset by it as a Cubs fan. Jealous because my team is sitting their happy asses at home while our rival competes for a championship? Hell frikin yes! Upset by the media coverage? Not a chance..I think that is what you need to come to terms with. It's jealousy of last years Cubs team and you wishing it were the Sox soaking up the attention. Like I said, if the roles were reversed I would be jealous as a Cubs fan and I don't have a problem admitting it.

joecrede
01-05-2004, 11:00 PM
Media members professionalism in covering the Cubs choke, particularly that of Mark Giangreco, is what is being questioned here. Particularly in light of the criticism Mark Schanowski took for wearing a Bears polo shirt while working a Bears preseason game broadcast on the station.

miker
01-05-2004, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
...Furthermore, if the Sox make the playoffs next year and the Cubs are not in it, you can expect the media to cover the Sox just as much should they come within 1 game of the series.
The "Nice Me" would say: "I'll believe it when I see it..."
The "Bad Me" would say: "What a load of BS!"

vegyrex
01-06-2004, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
I don't think your argument holds any water and I'm not saying that just because I'm a Cubs fan. Exactly what did you expect the media to cover during the Cubs playoff run? They were 5 outs from the series, it WAS BIG NEWS and not just locally. Do you really think that if the Cubs make the playoffs next year and the Sox are sitting at home the media will say-We better not cover the Cubs too much otherwise Hangar and other Sox fans will be upset? C''mon man! They could care less what you think. They would not care what I thought if the roles were reversed. Furthermore, if the Sox make the playoffs next year and the Cubs are not in it, you can expect the media to cover the Sox just as much should they come within 1 game of the series. I certainly would EXPECT that type of coverage and I would not be upset by it as a Cubs fan. Jealous because my team is sitting their happy asses at home while our rival competes for a championship? Hell frikin yes! Upset by the media coverage? Not a chance..I think that is what you need to come to terms with. It's jealousy of last years Cubs team and you wishing it were the Sox soaking up the attention. Like I said, if the roles were reversed I would be jealous as a Cubs fan and I don't have a problem admitting it.


I think you need to come to terms with the sad fact, even if the Sox made the world series, would not generate that much interest among the flub loving Chicago media. Outside of Linda Yu or Richard Roeper, very view media types in Chicago are Sox fans.

hsnterprize
01-06-2004, 06:09 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
I don't think your argument holds any water and I'm not saying that just because I'm a Cubs fan. Exactly what did you expect the media to cover during the Cubs playoff run? They were 5 outs from the series, it WAS BIG NEWS and not just locally. Do you really think that if the Cubs make the playoffs next year and the Sox are sitting at home the media will say-We better not cover the Cubs too much otherwise Hangar and other Sox fans will be upset? C''mon man! They could care less what you think. They would not care what I thought if the roles were reversed. Furthermore, if the Sox make the playoffs next year and the Cubs are not in it, you can expect the media to cover the Sox just as much should they come within 1 game of the series. I certainly would EXPECT that type of coverage and I would not be upset by it as a Cubs fan. Jealous because my team is sitting their happy asses at home while our rival competes for a championship? Hell frikin yes! Upset by the media coverage? Not a chance..I think that is what you need to come to terms with. It's jealousy of last years Cubs team and you wishing it were the Sox soaking up the attention. Like I said, if the roles were reversed I would be jealous as a Cubs fan and I don't have a problem admitting it. Okay...maybe I should elaborate on a couple of things...first, I will honestly admit to a certain point, I was upset the Sox didn't make the playoffs. Every Sox fan felt that way, and it was obviously made worse with the Cubs made the playoffs. While that pill wasn't easy to swallow, we were able to deal with it as the Cubs progressed. Now, I'll give the Cubs all the credit in the world for their success and popularity. But, there's a difference between talking about how the team made it to the playoffs, and fawning over the team so much that newscasts seem to center themselves around "everything Cub."

Now, you say that if the Sox were 1 game away from the World Series, the media coverage would be the same. Take it from an insider...NO IT WOULDN'T. While there would be a lot of talk about the event, there wouldn't be this overall "giddyness" over the Sox first W.S. appearance since 1959. Remember, we're talking about the same media who acted like the New York Yankess had never been to Chicago since they played the Cubs in generations...even though the Bronx Bombers come to U.S. Cellular Field every year. We're talking about the same media who would ignore just about anything Sox related if the Cubs are doing anything remotely positive. I'm not talking about winning a pennant, but even the minute things that sports teams should do for fans and the community. For a while, it seemed like the Cubs could do no wrong, and the Sox could do no right.

Now, in fairness, I'll be the first to admit as a Sox fan that my team needs a MAJOR OVERHAUL in the P.R. and marketing departments. The Cubs have won the P.R. war as far as capturing the hearts and minds of the casual fan. The Sox really need to get themselves out there, and that starts with the ownership needing to get on the ball. Also, it's obvious when the Cubs do well, it's a big story. But like I tried to say in the letter, there's a fine line between "reporting" and "fawning." It's one thing to talk about the Cubs' drive for their first pennant in generations...it's another thing to act like the very fans they're trying to distinguish themselves from. It's one thing to report on the news the excitement about Cubs fans looking forward to a possible World Series...it's anothing thing to help create it because either the reporter, the sports/news director, or even the station manager, is a Cubs fan. I'm not crying "conspiracy theory" here...of course it was a big story. My complaint was even though I could respect the "bigness" of the Cubs' pennant drive, a lot of reporters really lost themselves in the euphoria, and stopped objectively reporting on the story...and became part of the story. It wasn't until after the Cubs lost that many of them, both publicly and privately, admitted they got "carried away" in the hype.

Look...I know remembering the loss isn't easy for you. But, if you can somehow look at tape from the night the Cubs lost game 7, take a look at how the reporters acted. Now, of course many of them only reflected the overall attitude of the night, but some of those reporters looked a lot more forlorn than others. Why...because THEIR TEAM LOST IN THE PLAYOFFS, AND THEY'RE HURT. Now...if it were the Sox in that situation, of course Sox fans in the media like myself would be upset, and I have no bones in admitting that. However, when I'm on the air, unless the situation presents itself, it's not my place to necessarily act like a fan. It's my place to report the story...not help create the story, as many people in the press did.

Now you're also saying there's jealously here over the Cubs' success. Admittedly, there is some here. But...that's not the reason why I wrote Feder. Of course you probably won't see that since it was your favorite team in the thick of the story. But if there's any way you can pull your Cub loyalty to the side and just observe how people acted, you can see there was a lot of stuff going on that was simply ridiculous. And I'm not talking about fans in or outside the ballpark...I'm talking about the reporters and sportscasters who seemed to let their Cub-love show at an opportune time. Think about this...how many times did reporters say things like "everyone loves the Cubs", or repeat over and over again what happened in history since the Cubs were last in the World Series. When newscasts devote 20 minutes of a 30 minute newscast to everything Cub, that's not journalism...that's OVERKILL. When newscasts repeat the same things over and over again in the name of "supporting the home team", that's not reporting...that's OVERKILL. Who in the world cares where Dusty Bakes gets his toothpicks from? Why were weather and traffic reporters places amongst the crowd to hype up the atmosphere? Hey...I can understand reports and such centered around your favorite team, but come on...traffic reporters saying it's bumper-to-bumper pedestrian traffic around Wrigley? Would they do something like that if the Sox were in that position...they might now since people like me are bringing this topic out in the open, but other than that...no. Whether you want to believe that or not, that's up to you. But, I can tell you Sox fans like those of us on this board are more than willing to keep the press on their toes.

hsnterprize
01-06-2004, 06:18 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
HSN,
What exactly do you think contacting a member of the media is going to do to stop the attention the Cubs get? WOW!! Robert Feder agreed with you about the Cubs media attention. What next, Michael Sneed? I wrote Feder because he wrote a story outlining a lot of stupidity in the media in 2003. He harped on one particular incident, Mark Shanowski's wearing a Bears jacket/shirt during Bears pre-season pre-game shows. I outlined to him how I was upset on how the press acted during the Cubs' playoff run. I know it won't stop the attitudes of media members who love the Cubbies, but it will at least expose how many of the members of the press acted. Like I said, if Mark Giangreco, one of the more popular Cub fans in the press, has to apologize for adding "The Curse of the Big Mouth" (his words...not mine) in his overconfidence of the Cubs' win, then you know something was wrong. Whether you like it or not, that's not supposed to happen in reporting.

hsnterprize
01-06-2004, 06:21 AM
Originally posted by miker
The "Nice Me" would say: "I'll believe it when I see it..."
The "Bad Me" would say: "What a load of BS!" One word...ditto.

TommyJohn
01-06-2004, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by hsnterprize

Now, you say that if the Sox were 1 game away from the World Series, the media coverage would be the same. Take it from an insider...NO IT WOULDN'T. While there would be a lot of talk about the event, there wouldn't be this overall "giddyness" over the Sox first W.S. appearance since 1959. Remember, we're talking about the same media who acted like the New York Yankess had never been to Chicago since they played the Cubs in generations...even though the Bronx Bombers come to U.S. Cellular Field every year.

Not to mention the fact that the White Sox played both the
Giants and Dodgers last year for the first time since playing
them in the World Series in 1917 and 1959, and both series
were virtually ignored by both newspapers, except for a back
page Trib article on the 1959 Series written by Bob Vandeberg,
a Sox fan and someone who noted the significance of the Sox
playing LA.

And of course, there was Steve Rosenbloom, who, when it
was pointed out to him that the Yankees play in Chicago
every year, sneered back "but now they're playing a team
that everyone cares about." This, of course, is the same
Steve Rosenbloom who loves to sneer at Sox fans that the
team will be contracted in 2006.

Hangar18
01-06-2004, 08:01 AM
Northside Fan, your missing the point. The cubbie popularity
is due to the Media Onslaught. It may pain you to realize that
though I dont know which generation of cub fan you are .......

The most ridiculous thing Ive EVER seen, was NBC/FOX reporters
celebrating "two storied" franchises, and asking the Differences between NewYork and Chicago. They asked fans who had the best Pizza and Nightlife and what they thought of Chicago
A couple of NewYork fans, you could tell, were playing along thinking it was ridiculous, but they said NY pizza was better
and so was the nightlife. I thought to myself, do these people
realize Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Reggie Jackson,
Andy Pettite have been coming to Chicagos south side to play
the Sox since the 1900's ??? Is this responsible Journalism?
or is it Cubpoganda with some News and Weather thrown in?
Northside Fan? be honest ..........

Frater Perdurabo
01-06-2004, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Northside Fan, your missing the point. The cubbie popularity
is due to the Media Onslaught. It may pain you to realize that
though I dont know which generation of cub fan you are .......

The most ridiculous thing Ive EVER seen, was NBC/FOX reporters
celebrating "two storied" franchises, and asking the Differences between NewYork and Chicago. They asked fans who had the best Pizza and Nightlife and what they thought of Chicago
A couple of NewYork fans, you could tell, were playing along thinking it was ridiculous, but they said NY pizza was better
and so was the nightlife. I thought to myself, do these people
realize Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Reggie Jackson,
Andy Pettite have been coming to Chicagos south side to play
the Sox since the 1900's ??? Is this responsible Journalism?
or is it Cubpoganda with some News and Weather thrown in?
Northside Fan? be honest ..........

With apologies to those on WSI who work in the media, anyone who believes that the media as a whole is "objective" or even "fair and balanced" is naive. Reporters, editors, publishers, etc. all are human beings. All human beings have biases. The best journalists acknowledge their biases and attempt to account for those biases in their work.

Perception is reality. Because they work for for-profit corporations lusting after the biggest demographics, journalists today are mired in ratings wars. The perception is that the Cubs are "America's team" and "Chicago's team." Seeking after those big ratings (and higher prices for advertising spots), many reporters and more importantly editors and publishers (and program directors, etc.) will court what they think is the dominant demographic. They buy into and uphold the perception. Few reporters have the guts to go against the grain and not uphold the Cubs mystique.

A master of the art of propaganda, Hitler said that if you tell a lie long enough, it eventually will become the truth. Cubs ownership -- the Tribune company -- similarly are masters of propaganda in the Chicago media.

Northside fan
01-06-2004, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
Northside Fan, your missing the point. The cubbie popularity
is due to the Media Onslaught. It may pain you to realize that
though I dont know which generation of cub fan you are .......

The most ridiculous thing Ive EVER seen, was NBC/FOX reporters
celebrating "two storied" franchises, and asking the Differences between NewYork and Chicago. They asked fans who had the best Pizza and Nightlife and what they thought of Chicago
A couple of NewYork fans, you could tell, were playing along thinking it was ridiculous, but they said NY pizza was better
and so was the nightlife. I thought to myself, do these people
realize Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Reggie Jackson,
Andy Pettite have been coming to Chicagos south side to play
the Sox since the 1900's ??? Is this responsible Journalism?
or is it Cubpoganda with some News and Weather thrown in?
Northside Fan? be honest ..........


I will admit that there were SOME media members who ALL OF A SUDDEN appeared to be Cubs fans during last years run. Kathy Brock and Mark Supelsa come to mind off the top of my head. That said, I still believe that the Sox would get as much coverage as the Cubs did if the roles were reversed. There are some things that are out of the media's control, so please here me out on this and DON'T take it as a slam on the Sox. Face it, the media was able to hang out on the roof tops across the street on Waveland and Sheffield because those buildings are right next to Wrigley. Should the Sox make the playoffs, where could the media "hang out" at the cell? It is not the media's fault Reinsdorf decided to put his yard where there are no visible attractions from the yard. That is fact, not a slam. Wrigley is a great atmosphere, over hyped or not. Look, I respect most Sox fans, I really do. I have a good time when I'm at the cell for 3 games a year to watch the Cubs and Sox go at it. The point of my message is that the you can't change the media coverage the Cubs get. If the Cubs are in the playoffs next year the hype will probably be bigger then it was last year, that is just the way it is. Who you should be calling is your lame owner and GM and tell them to re-up With Alomar so you guys have a legit chance at winning the ALC. Alomar is still a a very good player even at his age. There are few, if any, better then he at playing defense and he still is a good leadoff hitter.

Hangar18
01-06-2004, 10:25 AM
I somewhat disagree Northside Fan, but you are right on a number of facts, (atmosphere, bandwagon, reinsdorf at fault, etc) we will have to see
how this plays out when the SOX make the playoffs in 04
(in teal).

Northside fan
01-06-2004, 10:31 AM
Well, so much for the Alomar comment I made. According to rotoworld, Alomar will be inking a deal with the D-Backs.

soxruleEP
01-06-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
I don't think your argument holds any water and I'm not saying that just because I'm a Cubs fan. . . .I think that is what you need to come to terms with. It's jealousy of last years Cubs team and you wishing it were the Sox soaking up the attention. Like I said, if the roles were reversed I would be jealous as a Cubs fan and I don't have a problem admitting it.

The point is not that there was coverage of the Cubs playoff run, but a collective civic orgasm that WOULD NOT be repeated if the Sox were to be within one game of the Series.

I don't think Sox fams would be as upset as we were by the coverage if the everyday bias of the Chicago media were not as obvious as it is.

Please, drink your Cubbie Kool-Aid elsewhere.

Northside fan
01-06-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by soxruleEP
but a collective civic orgasm that WOULD NOT be repeated if the Sox were to be within one game of the Series.




And you know this because the Sox have been within 5 outs of the World Series recently and the media did not go balls out like they did with the Cubs?

Iwritecode
01-06-2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
And you know this because the Sox have been within 5 outs of the World Series recently and the media did not go balls out like they did with the Cubs?

The media goes balls out for everything Cubs while the Sox get page 5 coverage. It's been that way for quite awhile now.

It's my own personal theory that if the Sox ever beat the Cubs in the WS the front page of the Cubune would read, "CUBS LOSE!"

Northside fan
01-06-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
The media goes balls out for everything Cubs while the Sox get page 5 coverage. It's been that way for quite awhile now.

It's my own personal theory that if the Sox ever beat the Cubs in the WS the front page of the Cubune would read, "CUBS LOSE!"

Jerry Reinsdorf is the problem, not the media. I said this here before and I'll say it again. When Reinsdorf said that this is a Cubs town and it always will be, he buried himself. He basically talked up his north side rival by doing that. His mistake, not the media's. That said, if the Sox get to the brink of the series,I still say the coverage would equal that of the Cubs.

miker
01-06-2004, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Jerry Reinsdorf is the problem, not the media. I said this here before and I'll say it again. When Reinsdorf said that this is a Cubs town and it always will be, he buried himself. He basically talked up his north side rival by doing that. His mistake, not the media's.
For a Cub fan, you make sense. :smile:
If the Sox are guilty of continually shooting themselves in the foot, JR is certainly the trigger man.
That said, if the Sox get to the brink of the series,I still say the coverage would equal that of the Cubs.
I still maintain this is BS. Most of the kneepad-wearing media members and self-appointed celebrities in Chicago don't even know the city extends south of Roosevelt Road.

DrCrawdad
01-06-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
And you know this because the Sox have been within 5 outs of the World Series recently and the media did not go balls out like they did with the Cubs?

The fact is though that the media was going "balls out" for the Cubbies BEFORE they got to within 5 outs.

What proof do you have to suggest that the media would go "balls out" for the Sox if the Sox were within one game of the WS?

For the record, the Sox were within two games of the World Series in 1993 & 1983. I don't remember the media response back in '83 but I'm quite sure that the media did not go "balls out" for the Sox in '93.

Northside fan
01-06-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
The fact is though that the media was going "balls out" for the Cubbies BEFORE they got to within 5 outs.

What proof do you have to suggest that the media would go "balls out" for the Sox if the Sox were within one game of the WS?

For the record, the Sox were within two games of the World Series in 1993 & 1983. I don't remember the media response back in '83 but I'm quite sure that the media did not go "balls out" for the Sox in '93.

I don't think for a second that the media would ignore a Sox playoff run. I remember just last year how much hype the Sox got when they traded for Carl and Robbie. The headline the next day in the Sun-Times??? "WORLD SERIOUS"! This was in July, not October. So, again, I stand by my claim that the coverage would indeed be equal or very close to it.

DrCrawdad
01-06-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
I don't think for a second that the media would ignore a Sox playoff run. I remember just last year how much hype the Sox got when they traded for Carl and Robbie. The headline the next day in the Sun-Times??? "WORLD SERIOUS"! This was in July, not October. So, again, I stand by my claim that the coverage would indeed be equal or very close to it.

Only a Cub fan could look at the media the Cubs got last year and think that the Sox would get similar treatment. I can't imagine many Sox fans agreeing with your assessment.

Of course the media wouldn't "ignore a Sox playoff run." I don't believe that I ever suggested that they would ignore the Sox. But the coverage the Sox received in 2000 was certainly NOT going "balls out." In fact much of the 2K coverage had a negative slant to it. Compare that to the glowing bleery eyed "balls out" media coverage the Cubbies last year.

From what I've heard, guys going "balls out" is always welcome in Wrigleyville. :)

munchman33
01-06-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
So, again, I stand by my claim that the coverage would indeed be equal or very close to it.

You really believe that? I guess it is true that all Cub's fans are morons.

You own the city no matter the circumstances and you can't even see it. Jeez. :angry:

Northside fan
01-06-2004, 04:41 PM
We will just agree to disagree on this DrCrawdad. That said, Robbie Alomar just signed for a mere $1 million with the D-Backs. As a Sox fan did you want to see Alomar back?

Northside fan
01-06-2004, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
You really believe that? I guess it is true that all Cub's fans are morons.

You own the city no matter the circumstances and you can't even see it. Jeez. :angry:

I could care less about owning the city. I want a championship. This is not a popularity contest, it's baseball.

DrCrawdad
01-06-2004, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
We will just agree to disagree on this DrCrawdad. That said, Robbie Alomar just signed for a mere $1 million with the D-Backs. As a Sox fan did you want to see Alomar back?

Well then Robbie blew it, didn't he? The Sox offered Robbie quite a bit more during the season, IIRC.

I wouldn't have minded having Robbie from 4 or 5 years ago on the Sox.

hsnterprize
01-07-2004, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
And you know this because the Sox have been within 5 outs of the World Series recently and the media did not go balls out like they did with the Cubs? No...he knows this because it's pretty well known the Sox don't have as many fans in the press as the Cubs do. The Sox haven't been as close to the series in recent years as the Cubs, granted...but we all know that if the Sox were to get this close, there would be a buzz, but not this big of a buzz. Part of that is because the Sox aren't as popular as the Cubs...that is true. But another part of that is because many of the people who are in the press just aren't Sox fans. Let's face it...you do your job better if you WANT to do it versus HAVE to do it. Many reporters wanted to be a part of the action and add their 2 cents to the coverage. That's why there was so much talk over the Cubs' playoff success.

Like I said, I understand the Cubs in the post-season was the obvious "big story". But, it's one thing to talk about the team and their success. It's another to literally fish for any story out there that has "Cubbie blue" all over it. If fans want to make shrines and remodel their basements to look like Cubbie sports bars, then that's fine...Sox fans have done the same thing. However, if every story in a newscast is centered around stuff like that, then there's something wrong. And I distictly remember that time NOT being a slow news time, both locally, nationally, and internationally.

hsnterprize
01-07-2004, 07:05 AM
Posted by Northside Fan..."Should the Sox make the playoffs, where could the media "hang out" at the cell? It is not the media's fault Reinsdorf decided to put his yard where there are no visible attractions from the yard. That is fact, not a slam."

That is true...there isn't atmosphere OUTSIDE U.S. Cellular Field, but what about INSIDE? There was plenty of it when the All-Star Game was there last year. You mean to tell me the newscasts couldn't "hang out" in the center field fan deck, or set up shot somewhere either inside or outside the ballpark, or somewhere close to it? ESPN had their "SportsCenter on the Road" anchor desk set up there for the All-Star Game and prior night's activities. I'm nitpicking...I know, but my point is simply if the press really wanted to make an area a place to go, they know how to make it happen.

I'll give it to you as far as Jerry Reinsdorf "shooting himself in the foot" in saying Chicago is a "Cubs town", and not providing any out-of-ballpark atmosphere at the Cell. We've constantly reamed him about that. However, there's been too much shown over the years that makes me and other Sox fans believe if the Sox were in the same situation the Cubs were in last year, while there would be plenty of talk about the situation, there wouldn't be as much "giddyness" over the incident. In fact, IMHO, the fact the Sox "choking their way out of a pennant" might be somewhat downplayed because it's the Sox in the situation instead of the Cubs. Think about it...it's been almost 3 months since the loss, and people are STILL talking it. It's been months since the Marlins "shocked the world" in beating the Cubs' best 2 pitchers, and there are people in the press openly admitting they're "still hurt" by the loss. And the news about the ball Steve Bartman got his hands on being sold at an auction made NATIONAL news. I saw that Harry Caray's Restaurant manager being interviewd on ABC, CBS, NBC, and other networks. If that had happened to a Sox fan interfering in a playoff game, do you honestly think there would be that much play on it?

DrCrawdad
01-07-2004, 07:38 AM
:giangreco
"You guys should put a Cubbie hat on my fat head. Remember what I said when the Cubbies were in the playoffs? I said that if the Sox were in the playoffs they wouldn't even fill-up The Cell.

"Finally though I had to admit that I lost all journalist credibility because I went balls-out for the Cubbies."

vegyrex
01-07-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by munchman33
You really believe that? I guess it is true that all Cub's fans are morons.


Yep. Northside fan's posts are obvious examples of this.

miker
01-07-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by vegyrex
Yep. Northside fan's posts are obvious examples of this. Name calling will not resolve anything. Northside's just misguided.

jabrch
01-07-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by miker
Name calling will not resolve anything. Northside's just misguided.

Isn't misguided just a euphamism for moron?

Hangar18
01-07-2004, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by vegyrex
Yep. Northside fan's posts are obvious examples of this.

he wasnt that bad. Ive seen way worse.....He at least brought
up a point he believed to be fact, and brought up things to point
them out. (though is misguided)
Cant ask for more than that. He definitely represents
that 1% that we've heard about ........... heh heh

hsnterprize
01-07-2004, 10:13 PM
We talked on the phone, and the tone was very pleasant. Like he said in a previous voice mail, he told me the reason why he harped on the Mark Shanowski situation was because even though the average fan wouldn't pay that much mind that a reporter was wearing a shirt with the logo of the team he/she was covering, journalists have to watch out for things like that because there could be a sign that a "business deal" may have happened where the reporter for the NBC 5 Bears pre-season games had to show some outward support for the Bears as part of the team's deal with the network. In short, it's referred to in the business as "payola", or in layman's terms, "you play ball with me, and I'll play ball with you." Simply put, if a sideline reporter for a football game is to appear to be unbiased and objective, team colors on the field are a no-no.

Robert told me that he appreciated me writing my thought to him inthe way I did. He said there was such a citywide "breach of journalistic ethics" when the Cubs went deep into the playoffs, that it really wasn't worth harping about. There were so many situations where reporters, directors, and anyone associated with covering the Cubs were so caught up in the hype, that any chances of being fair and objective were thrown out the window as soon as their feet, minds, or broadcasting equipment got close to Wrigley. He also told me the same things basically happened during the Bears' and Bulls' championship runs. The city is so starved for winning sports teams that when one comes along, media outlets turn from reporting a story to competing against one another to get the best angles and soundbytes for ratings and business. For example, if channel 7 broadcasts their afternoon and evening news from atop the rooftops across from Wrigley, then channel 2 has to do the same to keep their viewers. Understandable, yes...but still overkill.

I told him about WSI, and I'll e-mail him with a link to the site. I didi tell him I write for this site, but my Sox love wasn't the main reason why I had a gripe with the local press last fall. Sure I would've loved to see my Sox in the same position the Cubs were in sans the game 6 collapse in the LCS, but I really believe that if that were the case, even with the lack of winning baseball in this city, the White Sox and their fans, unless they showed up in droves, would not get the same credit nor praise from the press as their counterparts from the north side did. Let's face it...we all know the many reporters who did everything from report news from the Cubs dugout to fly over Wrigley Field with traffic reports were only doing their job, but the image they were touting over and over again turn a legitimately good Chicago story into an obsession. Whether we like the Cubs or not, Chicago was truly excited about a baseball playoff team. However, Feder did laugh when I asked him if he saw the Sox fans cheering after the Cubs loss and he said, "yes." He knows about the rivalry...trust me on that one.

SSN721
01-08-2004, 07:23 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Isn't misguided just a euphamism for moron?

My hatred for the Cubs run as deep as anyones on this site, but I have to say I think just calling a moron, stupid, etc. is just not an intelligent response. I think Northside has shown that he is doing his best to try to make even, level-headed argument. It is true that his bias shows but so what, that is why I respect him, loves one hates the other, the way it should be. If we went to a Cubs board and try to post making unbiased arguments about things like this it would like just as biased to the Cubs fans there. I just think you should cut him some slack, I think it is interesting to get different viewpoints from the other side that aren't just based on stupid "Cubs rule, Sox suck" mentality. Don't want to sound like a sellout or apologist, just think you should cut Northside some slack, he does his best to be non-partisan I think.

hsnterprize
01-08-2004, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
I don't think for a second that the media would ignore a Sox playoff run. I remember just last year how much hype the Sox got when they traded for Carl and Robbie. The headline the next day in the Sun-Times??? "WORLD SERIOUS"! This was in July, not October. So, again, I stand by my claim that the coverage would indeed be equal or very close to it. Check this out, though...it took the Sox making a major deal like getting Alomar, a proven post-season winner, as well as Everett in order for the Sox to get that kind of coverage. There have been WAY TOO MANY times when the Cubs so something remotely "right", or Sammy Sosa says something that grabs the headlines, and it's "All-Cubs, all the time" on the front pages. If the Sox do anything that's legitimately worthy of front page status, it's often ignored. I'm not crying conspiracy theory here, but as an insider, I can vouch situations like happening over and over again.

And we're not saying the media would "ignore" a Sox playoff run. We're saying based on experiences in the past, we're believing if the Sox were in the playoffs, the media wouldn't hype it up as much as when the Cubs were in the post-season. It would be big, but what we're saying is that the local press made the Cubs' post-season appearance bigger than life. It wasn't until after the Cubs were eliminated that many reporters admitted they took the run way too far in their reporting, and acted more like fans rather than reporters.

jabrch
01-08-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
My hatred for the Cubs run as deep as anyones on this site, but I have to say I think just calling a moron, stupid, etc. is just not an intelligent response. I think Northside has shown that he is doing his best to try to make even, level-headed argument. It is true that his bias shows but so what, that is why I respect him, loves one hates the other, the way it should be. If we went to a Cubs board and try to post making unbiased arguments about things like this it would like just as biased to the Cubs fans there. I just think you should cut him some slack, I think it is interesting to get different viewpoints from the other side that aren't just based on stupid "Cubs rule, Sox suck" mentality. Don't want to sound like a sellout or apologist, just think you should cut Northside some slack, he does his best to be non-partisan I think.

SSN, anyone who says that the Cubs and Sox would get equal coverage is clearly not being serious. That's just not sensible if you have watched the media in this town over the past 10 years.

SSN721
01-08-2004, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
SSN, anyone who says that the Cubs and Sox would get equal coverage is clearly not being serious. That's just not sensible if you have watched the media in this town over the past 10 years.

I guess I am just trying to say that although we both know that, we are on the other side and can see it easily, if you were a Cubs fan you are used to the over-coverage but pay so little attention to the Sox you don't even notice they are not being covered as much. I just think it is difficult for a fan of either team to look beyond their own bias. That being said I do of course believe that the coverage is severely slanted toward the Cubs.

DrCrawdad
01-08-2004, 08:37 AM
Wanna make yourself laugh? Consider that there were Cubbie fans complaining that they were NOT getting the proper amount of media coverage!

SSN721
01-08-2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Wanna make yourself laugh? Consider that there were Cubbie fans complaining that they were NOT getting the proper amount of media coverage!

Really? When was that? I'm not doubting you I just don't remember hearing about that.

Northside fan
01-08-2004, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by SSN721
Don't want to sound like a sellout or apologist, just think you should cut Northside some slack, he does his best to be non-partisan I think.





To those of you have backed me up to a degree, thanks. Like I have said before, I can take the heat and I expected it here even if what I have said is a accurate summary of what is going down on the south side. Sometimes the truth is hard to take for some people. When the Cubs have stunk it up and I had to listen to Sox and Cardinal fans tell me about it, it sucked. However, it was the TRUTH. If some of you think my comments about Reinsdorf and Williams are off base, so be it. I happen to think I have a pretty good handle on my south side rivals and what they have been doing lately. Hell frikin yes I care about what the Sox are doing, they share the same city and it would be foolish not to keep up with them. That is why I think it is just fine that Sox fans keep up with the Cubs, you should, we are rivals. I post at a private Cubs site and I have engaged in plenty of good baseball talk with Sox fans and fans of other teams. On a side note, we are one and a half months from spring training. I think we can all drink to that.

vegyrex
01-08-2004, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by SSN721
My hatred for the Cubs run as deep as anyones on this site, but I have to say I think just calling a moron, stupid, etc. is just not an intelligent response. I think Northside has shown that he is doing his best to try to make even, level-headed argument. It is true that his bias shows but so what, that is why I respect him, loves one hates the other, the way it should be. If we went to a Cubs board and try to post making unbiased arguments about things like this it would like just as biased to the Cubs fans there. I just think you should cut him some slack, I think it is interesting to get different viewpoints from the other side that aren't just based on stupid "Cubs rule, Sox suck" mentality. Don't want to sound like a sellout or apologist, just think you should cut Northside some slack, he does his best to be non-partisan I think.

Excuse me, but this is a "totally biased" White Sox site. I'm not going to cut any moronic flub fan any slack.