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hold2dibber
12-30-2003, 05:50 PM
There continue to be rumors floating around that the Mariners are looking to replace Carlos Guillen at SS. Would you consider this deal from the Sox perspective? Would the Mariners consider it?

From Seattle to Sox:

Carlos Guillen
Freddy Garcia
Randy Winn

Combined '03 salary: $12.875 million

From Sox to Seattle:

Carlos Lee
Jose Valentin
Scott Schoenweiss

Combined '03 salary: $13 million

The Sox would get upgraded starting pitching, defense and speed (as well as the lead-off hitter they desperately need). The Mariners would get the added offense they need. Guillen and Garcia are on one year deals, and I think both will be eligible for free agency after next year. Winn just signed a 3 year $11 million deal. The Sox would need to acquire a left fielder or they could let Reed, Rowand and Borchard battle for the spot.

Line-up:

Winn CF
Guillen SS
Thomas 1B/DH
Ordonez RF
Crede 3B
Konerko DH/1B
Reed/Rowand/Borchard LF
Olivo C
Harris 2B

Rotation:

Loaiza
Buehrle
Garcia
Garland
Rauch

Palehose13
12-30-2003, 06:13 PM
I don't like losing Lee, but the deal does have some appeal. Winn is a switch hitter that steals bases. If he doesn't play CF he can play LF and Rowand can be in CF. Garcia gives you a better starter that Schoenweiss and Guillen gives you a better defensive SS than Valentin and is also a switch hitter.

soxfan26
12-30-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
Would you consider this deal from the Sox perspective? Would the Mariners consider it?

From Seattle to Sox:

Carlos Guillen
Freddy Garcia
Randy Winn

Combined '03 salary: $12.875 million

From Sox to Seattle:

Carlos Lee
Jose Valentin
Scott Schoenweiss

Combined '03 salary: $13 million


Anyone should love this deal from the Sox perspective, adding Winn to the top of our lineup would be a huge upgrade.

I don't Seattle taking the bait though...

Picking up C. Lee would give them 2 guys in LF, I don't know that Ibanez has ever played CF before and I would have a hard time believing you could get Ichiro to switch to CF, it might insult him.

Plus with fan favorites Olerud and Martinez clogging up 1B and DH. there would be no room to shuffle those guys around.

Then there is Schoeny for Garcia, which is a downgrade for them. If the M's wanted to add a second lefty to their rotation, they could find several better options.

Great deal for the Sox though, and it even saves payroll!

MisterB
12-30-2003, 06:26 PM
Just to throw a moneywrench into this speculation: The sportstalk station here in the bay area report the Mariners are pursuing free agent SS Rich Aurilia.

RKMeibalane
12-30-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Just to throw a moneywrench into this speculation: The sportstalk station here in the bay area report the Mariners are pursuing free agent SS Rich Aurilia.

Several teams are courting Aurilia at the moment. Texas was interested in him until the A-Rod deal fell through. I wonder if Oakland is interested. They need to replace Tejada, and Aurilia wouldn't have to move, because Oakland is right across the Bay.

JaylisJP
12-30-2003, 07:36 PM
Man look at that lineup...even if we pick up those guys...we've still got 3 huge holes at the bottom, and that's assuming Crede wont be terrible (which he is...can't hit, sorry) and Konerko will rebound (which i do think will happen)

Sox are in huge trouble....and Freddy Garcia and Randy Winn ain't about to pull us out of the gaping hole we've dug ourselves into.

The Critic
12-30-2003, 07:43 PM
I'd do it.
Lee's offense would be missed, but a corner outfielder is easier to replace than a CF, I think, and Winn appears to be what the Sox need.
Plus you get pitching and a new SS ( which I'm for ), so that deal works just fine for me.

Hangar18
12-30-2003, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
I don't like losing Lee, but the deal does have some appeal. Winn is a switch hitter that steals bases. If he doesn't play CF he can play LF and Rowand can be in CF. Garcia gives you a better starter that Schoenweiss and Guillen gives you a better defensive SS than Valentin and is also a switch hitter.

Then...next year, when we lose Magglio, Thomas and Konerko....
we'll OFFICIALLY be a .250 hitting team. I like the future already

soxfan26
12-30-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by JaylisJP
Man look at that lineup...even if we pick up those guys...we've still got 3 huge holes at the bottom, and that's assuming Crede wont be terrible (which he is...can't hit, sorry) and Konerko will rebound (which i do think will happen)

Sox are in huge trouble....and Freddy Garcia and Randy Winn ain't about to pull us out of the gaping hole we've dug ourselves into.

Saying the Sox are in huge trouble is a bit drastic, they are in the AL Central don't forget.

Crede needs to improve, but he can hit. Last year was his first full season don't forget. He hit .308 after the break and struckout almost half as much. Crede will hit next year. IMO he will post something like .285, 20+ HR, and 75+ RBI.

Olivo will improve also, but he is a defensive wiz, so that hole in the lineup has to be acceptable.

Harris will wear out his welcome like Jiminez did IMO, he is definitely not the answer at 2B.

The trade won't happen anyway, but if it did it would improve the team overall.

munchman33
12-30-2003, 09:31 PM
While I like the deal, I don't think its feasable with the extra years of guaranteed big money Kenny gave Carlos. :(:

MHOUSE
12-30-2003, 09:42 PM
We just signed up Lee to a three-year deal so I don't see a point in moving him now. I'd love to unload Jose and Schoenweiss though. Guillen, Garcia, and Winn would all three be upgrades over what we currently have at those positions. I'd try Maggs and Jose for Garcia and Winn. That would save us a LOT of money and upgrade our staff. Maggs could play RF, Ichiro in CF (which I have heard a number of times as an option for them), and then Ibanez in LF. That wouldn't be so bad and if we threw in Schoenweiss then so be it. Guillen is better and cheaper than Jose, but so are plenty of other players to replace him.

ondafarm
12-30-2003, 10:52 PM
I'd do this deal in a cold minute but I doubt the Mariners will. Lee is a far below average defensive player and would be a serious liability in their outfield. The Sox desperately need a real lead off hitter.

Jjav829
12-30-2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by ondafarm
I'd do this deal in a cold minute but I doubt the Mariners will. Lee is a far below average defensive player and would be a serious liability in their outfield. The Sox desperately need a real lead off hitter.

No, hes no gold glover, but "far below average" is not an accurate description of Lee's defense. The Mariners have had an interest in Lee for a few years. They would love to get him. As long as he hit like he did last year (or better), they'd get over any defensive miscues he makes.

guillen4life13
12-30-2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
They would love to get him. As long as he hit like he did last year (or better), they'd get over any defensive miscues he makes.

He hardly makes any miscues nowadays anyways. Lee was actually an above average fielder. He even had some homer stealing catches last year.

jabrch
12-31-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by munchman33
While I like the deal, I don't think its feasable with the extra years of guaranteed big money Kenny gave Carlos. :(:

extra years? He only has a two year deal.

Big money? 6.5mm? I don't think that's big money for a 26 year old OF who hit .291, 31, 100, 113 last year. Do you?

MHOUSE
01-01-2004, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
He hardly makes any miscues nowadays anyways. Lee was actually an above average fielder. He even had some homer stealing catches last year.

I agree. Lee was great in the field last year. He had one or two miscues, but he made a lot of awesome catches and stole a couple homers. He always hustles after foul balls and IMO is very decent defensively for a left fielder. He doesn't have much of an arm though.....

Frater Perdurabo
01-01-2004, 04:50 PM
I would do this deal.

ondafarm
01-01-2004, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by MHOUSE
Lee was great in the field last year. He had one or two miscues, but he made a lot of awesome catches and stole a couple homers. He always hustles after foul balls and IMO is very decent defensively for a left fielder. He doesn't have much of an arm though.....

His awesome catches were mostly when he was caught out of position. He had a lot of balls he couldn't get to because he didn't get a good jump on virtually any ball. He only plays the wall well when it is straight back. He's so bad that the shortstops stopped flashing signs to him, he didn't know what to do. He is awesome . . . awesomely bad.

Tragg
01-01-2004, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
There continue to be rumors floating around that the Mariners are looking to replace Carlos Guillen at SS. Would you consider this deal from the Sox perspective? Would the Mariners consider it?

From Seattle to Sox:

Carlos Guillen
Freddy Garcia
Randy Winn

Combined '03 salary: $12.875 million

From Sox to Seattle:

Carlos Lee
Jose Valentin
Scott Schoenweiss

Combined '03 salary: $13 million

The Sox would get upgraded starting pitching, defense and speed (as well as the lead-off hitter they desperately need). The Mariners would get the added offense they need. Guillen and Garcia are on one year deals, and I think both will be eligible for free agency after next year. Winn just signed a 3 year $11 million deal. The Sox would need to acquire a left fielder or they could let Reed, Rowand and Borchard battle for the spot.

Line-up:

Winn CF
Guillen SS
Thomas 1B/DH
Ordonez RF
Crede 3B
Konerko DH/1B
Reed/Rowand/Borchard LF
Olivo C
Harris 2B

Rotation:

Loaiza
Buehrle
Garcia
Garland
Rauch

I would rather put Maggs in the deal (since we'll lose him after the season) save 6 million and use it to sign another starter.
But I would do your deal.