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View Full Version : Seriously, when is Reinsdorf going to sell?


SoxxoS
12-30-2003, 01:55 PM
I used to like Reinsdorf. That was about 8 years ago when he paid the big money to Albert Belle and he looked like he had the team going in the right direction. Then, he says he would trade all his NBA championship rings for 1 World Series, which quite possibly could be the most "teal" comment in the history of teal.

Now, I really don't like him. After reading Lip's numerous posts on the matter, it is clear Jerry just wants to line his pockets.

I don't have any background into the Reinsdorf family, so...

1)Will Jerry ever sell in his lifetime? Are there any rumors saying "at a certain point..."
2)Will his sons just take over if he passes on? (Not that I am wishing that on anyone, just was interested.)
3) Are there any potential buyers that anyone can think of? (I'll take the CEO of Intel in a heartbeat :smile: )

Randar68
12-30-2003, 02:00 PM
Forming your opinion of anyone or anything based on the comments of Lip is a sure way to guarantee a negative opinion.

That said, I'm tired of Reinsy's small thinking and unwillingness to spend money to win over the fan base and market the team effectively.

Tekijawa
12-30-2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I used to like Reinsdorf. That was about 8 years ago when he
3) Are there any potential buyers that anyone can think of? (I'll take the CEO of Intel in a heartbeat :smile: )

I'm one winning lottery ticket away from placing a bid tomorrow morning! Then we'll see if reisndorf really wanted to win more than I do?

jabrch
12-30-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I'm one winning lottery ticket away from placing a bid tomorrow morning! Then we'll see if reisndorf really wanted to win more than I do?


Teki - I was thinking the same thing. But if you win the 155mm prize, you take that as a lump sum payment after taxes it is only about 75mm. Say you take 25mm of it and invest it in a safe, interest bearing account so you never have to work again. You now have 50mm. You still need another 200 - 250mm to get into the price range that would interest JR.

got any rich friends? And if so, why aren't they ALREADY working to buy JR out?

anewman35
12-30-2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I'm one winning lottery ticket away from placing a bid tomorrow morning! Then we'll see if reisndorf really wanted to win more than I do?

Four of us should marry the Olson Twins and the Hilton Sisters. They're worth billions each, that'll be more than enough to build a playoff team. Plus, there will be money left over for green seats!

Lip Man 1
12-30-2003, 02:06 PM
Uncle Jerry will not be selling this franchise even though for the past four or five years his wife has been urging him to unload it.

My personal opinion is that he knows of the comments from fans and the media about wishing he would sell the club and that's why he doesn't.

In many cases he has done exactly the opposite of what folks would like simply because he owns the club. It's the old 'boss" Daley mentality..... i.e. Who are you'se guys (i.e. the fans, the media, the agents, the players) to tell me how to run my team.

Lip

Tekijawa
12-30-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
Four of us should marry the Olson Twins and the Hilton Sisters. They're worth billions each, that'll be more than enough to build a playoff team. Plus, there will be money left over for green seats!

GREAT IDEA!!! I'll take one of the Olsen twins, I'm sure my fiancee will understand! She knows what White Sox Baseball means to me and will support me through the tough times...

As far as the 75 Million I have to spend on the team, let's just say I'd make him an offer he couldn't refuse! Anyone know of any horse farms in the area?

joecrede
12-30-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
My personal opinion is that he knows of the comments from fans and the media about wishing he would sell the club and that's why he doesn't.

With respect Lip, I don't think that enters into it at all. There are roughly 90 sports franchises in the country (sorry NHL, MLS fans) and if I had to guess you'd be hard pressed to find 10 owners that are beloved in their cities.

Baby Fisk
12-30-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
With respect Lip, I don't think that enters into it at all. There are roughly 90 sports franchises in the country (sorry NHL, MLS fans) and if I had to guess you'd be hard pressed to find 10 of them that are beloved in their cities.
But how many of them have had to go 86 years without a championship?

It would be great if Jerry waved his own white flag and unloaded the team, but we all know better. This whole thread should be pipe dream pink.

SoxxoS
12-30-2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Forming your opinion of anyone or anything based on the comments of Lip is a sure way to guarantee a negative opinion.

That said, I'm tired of Reinsy's small thinking and unwillingness to spend money to win over the fan base and market the team effectively.

My comments aren't just based on Lip, but he has opened my eyes onto what a arrogant guy he really is.

Randar68
12-30-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
My comments aren't just based on Lip, but he has opened my eyes onto what a arrogant guy he really is.

Forming your opinion based off someone else's who has no real first-hand experience as to what type of person JR is.

Second, third or fourth hand opinions and heresy are just that.

JR is interested in making money, and if he can win and make money at the same time, great, otherwise, he'll just make money. He's a BUSINESSMAN! He didn't get rich by being a fool with money. People and their manufactured hatreds.

I am not a JR lover, but I respect what he's done as a businessman. As a fan, I hate the guy, but he does what's right for he and his investors.

Iwritecode
12-30-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Forming your opinion based off someone else's who has no real first-hand experience as to what type of person JR is.

Second, third or fourth hand opinions and heresy are just that.

JR is interested in making money, and if he can win and make money at the same time, great, otherwise, he'll just make money. He's a BUSINESSMAN! He didn't get rich by being a fool with money. People and their manufactured hatreds.

I am not a JR lover, but I respect what he's done as a businessman. As a fan, I hate the guy, but he does what's right for he and his investors.

You're a better man than I am Randar.

I understand the business side of wanting to make money but baseball is just not the "business" to be doing that in.

There are millions of people that put their heart and soul into that business that could care less how much money you are or aren't making.

It's not like a Wal-Mart or Target or McDonalds where if the customer doesn't like what the owner is doing, you can just shop somewhere else.

I understand where you're coming from but I'd have to dig way down deep to respect him for wanting to make money by owning a professional sports team.

I guess that's why I'm not rich... :D:

Baby Fisk
12-30-2003, 03:25 PM
Which of these options is most likely about JR:

a) he's making a tidy profit and doesn't care about winning a WS
b) he's making a tidy profit and genuinely wants to win a WS
c) he's losing money, but likes being an Owner and won't sell
d) he's losing money, and looking to sell
e) other???

Randar68
12-30-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
Which of these options is most likely about JR:

a) he's making a tidy profit and doesn't care about winning a WS
b) he's making a tidy profit and genuinely wants to win a WS
c) he's losing money, but likes being an Owner and won't sell
d) he's losing money, and looking to sell
e) other???

Nobody but JR and his partners and closest friends/family really knows this, which is my whole point. A consistently negative poster who just rehashes the same punchline on a near daily basis is affecting the opinions of others by shear repetition. Said poster has no more inside knowledge about what makes JR tick than most anyone else here. JR is not a public person, and media people, as much as they'd like to think so, don't have any more access to JR the person than anyone on the street. People aren't thinking for themselves.

Randar68
12-30-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
It's not like a Wal-Mart or Target or McDonalds where if the customer doesn't like what the owner is doing, you can just shop somewhere else.

Oh No? You must not be a Blackhawks fan. I've been to 1 game the past 4 years. Bill Wirtz is destroying that franchise faster than they can pull games from TV.

JR has his place in the list of despicable owners, but he's very little different than most owners. I'd love to have a KingGeorge/Hicks/Cuban type of owner. I want Jerry to sell, because I love the White Sox. Have since I was a kid. I start each season under the same basic premise of low expectations as a team, and hope to be surprised.

This off-season has worn on me even further. All the ballpark renovations, increased ticket prices, a bunch of FA's leaving, and Kenny, for all his trying, isn't able to do any real creative deals, and JR is still unwilling to raise the payroll.

I'll be watching on TV, and I will vote with my dollar.

miker
12-30-2003, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
JR is interested in making money, and if he can win and make money at the same time, great, otherwise, he'll just make money. He's a BUSINESSMAN! He didn't get rich by being a fool with money. People and their manufactured hatreds.

I am not a JR lover, but I respect what he's done as a businessman. As a fan, I hate the guy, but he does what's right for he and his investors.

Agreed. So the question bears asking: can JR be a good businessman AND the White Sox win a World Series?

Please note, I don't believe you can buy a winner (it rarely works), but that prudent spending and a little luck can bring home a championship. Right now it seems the plan is absolutely no spending and a LOT of luck.

Baby Fisk
12-30-2003, 03:47 PM
You've touched on a couple of things, Randar. There's a lot of people here and elsewhere who are flat out FRUSTRATED by an ownership that seems unconcerned with what we want most, and seemingly happy to sit in a white tower away from our cacophonous pleas. This breeds the suspicion that JR is happily counting his dead presidents and looking to accumulate more of them without splurging on payroll.

JR's an enigma, yes, which makes it even worse. I certainly take what people say here with a big hunk o' salt. However, since JR won't speak up too often, we are left to speculate like this as to what really is going on up in that tower.

What broke me was seeing Jeffrey Loria clutching that WS trophy last October. Owners are a despicable lot and we love to hate them, but obviously Florida's owner was a hell of a lot more determined to win a WS than ours. You don't need hearsay and speculation to believe that. It's obvious.

Ownership and the GM can talk all they want about wanting to build a winner for the South Side , but unless ownership actually wants to take strides towards that goal (through increased payroll or roster activity), it's all a load of ......

anewman35
12-30-2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
This off-season has worn on me even further. All the ballpark renovations, increased ticket prices, a bunch of FA's leaving, and Kenny, for all his trying, isn't able to do any real creative deals, and JR is still unwilling to raise the payroll.



The ballpark renovations are bad things?

Randar68
12-30-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
You've touched on a couple of things, Randar. There's a lot of people here and elsewhere who are flat out FRUSTRATED by an ownership that seems unconcerned with what we want most, and seemingly happy to sit in a white tower away from our cacophonous pleas. This breeds the suspicion that JR is happily counting his dead presidents and looking to accumulate more of them without splurging on payroll.

JR's an enigma, yes, which makes it even worse. I certainly take what people say here with a big hunk o' salt. However, since JR won't speak up too often, we are left to speculate like this as to what really is going on up in that tower.

What broke me was seeing Jeffrey Loria clutching that WS trophy last October. Owners are a despicable lot and we love to hate them, but obviously Florida's owner was a hell of a lot more determined to win a WS than ours. You don't need hearsay and speculation to believe that. It's obvious.

Ownership and the GM can talk all they want about wanting to build a winner for the South Side , but unless ownership actually wants to take strides towards that goal (through increased payroll or roster activity), it's all a load of ......

I thought what Kenny did at the end of last season would have made the Sox one heck of a dangerous opponent if they could have snuck into the playoffs. a few underperformers and a terrible manager prevented that from happenning.

Things can be done and chances taken to improve the team, but irresponsible spending and some poor luck/decisions and bad timing is something that has haunted this team.

It takes money, a will, and smarts to be a consistent contender. Even if we have the smarts and the will to be a winner, without the money, all that buys you is a periodic contender. After next year, the Sox will have little money committed long-term, and will be able to do some things. Hopefully, they are a tad smarter, but if 2004 turns into the disaster it is looking like at this point in time, then what will be left to build?

Nobody wants "The Kids Can Play ver. 4.0", but without the money, this is what they are left with. Again, it doesn't mean you still have to support it with your $$$$.

I went to more games after the mid-season trades than before them, and it wasn't even close. Kenny is apparently the only guy to realize the way it works. I'd like to see what he could do with a 75-80 million dollar payroll.

Randar68
12-30-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
The ballpark renovations are bad things?

No, but they should be tied to an increase in payroll given the renovations and ticket price hike. Field a winner for all the curious people who come to see the renovations and try to get them back on return visits. The die-hards will come to games and a few more if they're winning, but getting people out there is only half the battle... Putting a competetive and entertaining product out there is what get's them to come back, which is the key to building a fan base, and a reason why you can't do it overnight.

anewman35
12-30-2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
What broke me was seeing Jeffrey Loria clutching that WS trophy last October. Owners are a despicable lot and we love to hate them, but obviously Florida's owner was a hell of a lot more determined to win a WS than ours. You don't need hearsay and speculation to believe that. It's obvious.


I didn't realize he'd singlehandedly scored all their runs and got the other team out!

Loria obviously had a better team than Reinsdorf last year. He wasn't "obviously a hell of a lot more determined to win a WS" than JR, that's crazy. If we're basing it just on money spent, didn't Florida spend less than the Sox did? I don't think they made as many mid-season trades, either. And they got really lucky - the Cubs lost that NLCS a lot more than Florida won it, and if the Cubs had won, is Loria still "obviously a hell of a lot more determined to win a WS"?

The Sox season last year could have easilly gone the other way. We finished 4 games back, I can think of 4 games right off the top of my head we could have easilly won (more, actually) (the two Detroit 1-0 losses, that game against TB Koch blew, some of the first games against KC). If we win those, we're in the playoffs, and if we're in the playoffs and we get on one of those hot streaks, and who knows?

At some point as an owner, it doesn't matter how much you want it, you've done all you can realistically do, and the players have to come through, and even then you need quite a bit of luck.

Baby Fisk
12-30-2003, 04:28 PM
...it's been 22 years of JR. I grant you that Loria got lucky, but where's our trophy after 2 decades of JR's "commitment to winning"?

anewman35
12-30-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
...it's been 22 years of JR. I grant you that Loria got lucky, but where's our trophy after 2 decades of JR's "commitment to winning"?

So, basically, this franchise hasn't had a good owner since Charles Comiskey?

TheRockinMT
12-30-2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Forming your opinion based off someone else's who has no real first-hand experience as to what type of person JR is.

Second, third or fourth hand opinions and heresy are just that.

JR is interested in making money, and if he can win and make money at the same time, great, otherwise, he'll just make money. He's a BUSINESSMAN! He didn't get rich by being a fool with money. People and their manufactured hatreds.

I am not a JR lover, but I respect what he's done as a businessman. As a fan, I hate the guy, but he does what's right for he and his investors.

I admire your ability to ride the fence. Your right that Reinsdorf is a businessman first and and foremost. He will look out for his pocketbook. I think he is a very poor visionary and can't plan ahead. Looking at the bottom line every year guarantees the Sox will continue to be a mediocre competitor. Some say you have to spend money to make money, but JR is a good company man. Selig wants to put the brakes on the union and big contracts and Reinsdorf will do what Selig wants even if no one else does.

Baby Fisk
12-30-2003, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
So, basically, this franchise hasn't had a good owner since Charles Comiskey?

The discussion is about JR's ownership and supposed commitment to winning. Technically, you are correct that every owner since the Roman has failed. But we're talking about Jerry here.

He's failed to get this team over the hump since '81. My question is: how long do we have to accept his approach? We get the same spin every year, and the same disappointment. Don't you think something's got to change here?

miker
12-30-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
My question is: how long do we have to accept his approach? We get the same spin every year, and the same disappointment. Don't you think something's got to change here?

I'm not sure we have that much leverage here. If we attend the games in droves, some will say that we are rewarding JR's (in)actions with no promise it would make the team better. If we don't go to the games, we are vilified by those who are against us and JR has a great excuse to do nothing. Personally, I don't even want to consider *gasp* going to the Northside and turning blue! Failure is not an option.

Oh, the curse of being a Sox fan!

Baby Fisk
12-30-2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by miker
Personally, I don't even want to consider *gasp* going to the Northside and turning blue! Failure is not an option.

Oh, the curse of being a Sox fan!

Oh my god, just reading that made my mouth fall open!

Damn, it's hard, really hard, being a Sox fan.

JaylisJP
12-30-2003, 07:39 PM
I'll be watching on TV, and I will vote with my dollar.

- whoever said this - it's the smartest thing I've ever read on this board.

Hangar18
12-30-2003, 08:18 PM
How Old is Uncle Jer again? this guys got to be running out
of time one would think.....

kittle42
12-30-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
How Old is Uncle Jer again? this guys got to be running out
of time one would think.....

Bill Wirtz has been 90 for about 40 years, hasn't he?

red faber
12-31-2003, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
So, basically, this franchise hasn't had a good owner since Charles Comiskey?

um,yeah in a nutshell!!!!!!!!!!!!

and even he wasn't all that good...

red faber
12-31-2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
I didn't realize he'd singlehandedly scored all their runs and got the other team out!

Loria obviously had a better team than Reinsdorf last year. He wasn't "obviously a hell of a lot more determined to win a WS" than JR, that's crazy. If we're basing it just on money spent, didn't Florida spend less than the Sox did? I don't think they made as many mid-season trades, either. And they got really lucky - the Cubs lost that NLCS a lot more than Florida won it, and if the Cubs had won, is Loria still "obviously a hell of a lot more determined to win a WS"?

The Sox season last year could have easilly gone the other way. We finished 4 games back, I can think of 4 games right off the top of my head we could have easilly won (more, actually) (the two Detroit 1-0 losses, that game against TB Koch blew, some of the first games against KC). If we win those, we're in the playoffs, and if we're in the playoffs and we get on one of those hot streaks, and who knows?

At some point as an owner, it doesn't matter how much you want it, you've done all you can realistically do, and the players have to come through, and even then you need quite a bit of luck.

MARK REDMAN,

JUAN PIERRE,

JUAN ENCARNATION,

JEFF CONINE,

IVAN RODRIGUEZ,

UGETH URBINA,

all of these guys are players jeffrey loria picked up.
all of these guys were vital to the marlins success!!!!


i would have to say that,if you pick up players like that you OBVIOUSLY have a commitment to winning!!!!!.so taking those pickups into consideration,i would have to say that he WAS a hell of a lot more determined to win a championship than reinsdork as well.so you can call me crazy as well.

yeah ,florida did spend less money than the white sox.
but,it's not so much about spending money,it's more so about spending money wisely,which reinsdork just doesn't do!!!!!

the marlins got lucky?????
the cubs lost the nlcs more than the marlins won it???????
well,i look at it like this your opponents making mistakes is luck in your favor.but,it takes skill to take advantage of your opponents mistakes.so i feel the cubs did not lose the nlcs more so than the marlins winning it.it's about 50/50 as far as that is concerned.
and i guess s.f lost their series more that the marlins won that one as well if that's the case right?????


and if the cubs had won that series,and thank god they didn't,i would still consider loria a hell of a lot more determined to win a championship that reinsdork,because the fact is winning a championship just isn't a main priority to reinsdork!!!!!!

11-8 against detroit.

11-8 against cleveland.

3-3 against tampa bay.

3-4 against texas

we could would've and could've and should've until the day we die.but the fact remains that they DID NOT win those games.

luck helps a lot but,if you don't have the skill to take advantage of your luck,luck won't mean a damn thing.

and if you have skill you can make your own luck most of the time..

hsnterprize
12-31-2003, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
...it's been 22 years of JR. I grant you that Loria got lucky, but where's our trophy after 2 decades of JR's "commitment to winning"? That's what happens when you call Haray Carry "scum" after winning a division title.

I know I'm not the only one fantasizing about what I would do if I were the owner of the Sox. I tell ya'...I'd do so much to try to get relations between the Sox, the media, and the fans right, I don't know what I'd do. I have ideas...including publicly apologing to Dutchie Caray for the Sox mistreatment of her husband. Reinsdorf is such crap. He's a nice guy to talk to in person, but his business deals over the years really get on my and every Sox fan's last nerve.

Iwritecode
12-31-2003, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by Randar68
Oh No? You must not be a Blackhawks fan. I've been to 1 game the past 4 years. Bill Wirtz is destroying that franchise faster than they can pull games from TV.

JR has his place in the list of despicable owners, but he's very little different than most owners. I'd love to have a KingGeorge/Hicks/Cuban type of owner. I want Jerry to sell, because I love the White Sox. Have since I was a kid. I start each season under the same basic premise of low expectations as a team, and hope to be surprised.

This off-season has worn on me even further. All the ballpark renovations, increased ticket prices, a bunch of FA's leaving, and Kenny, for all his trying, isn't able to do any real creative deals, and JR is still unwilling to raise the payroll.

I'll be watching on TV, and I will vote with my dollar.

My point is that no matter what happens you still support the same team in some way. Whether it's watching them on TV or buying a shirt with their logo on it, they are still your favorite team.

If I were to go to a store or restuarant and didn't like the way they did business, I wouldn't go back. I would get my stuff somewhere else. Sports teams are different. Most of us don't like the way JR is running the team but that doesn't mean we are going to decide to become Cubs fans instead. Most of us will stick with the team no matter what and continue to support them in some way. Even if it is just by watching them on TV.

SoxxoS
12-31-2003, 10:47 AM
Speaking of White Sox mechandise, a lot of rappers wear White Sox gear. I am sure JR is delighted about that.

:reinsy

"For shizzle, dizzle."

CubKilla
12-31-2003, 01:08 PM
Reinsdorf can't sell fast enough but his legacy is already branded onto the White Sox franchise. The damage done in his 20+ years of ownership may be irreparable even with a winning White Sox team.

Iwritecode
12-31-2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Reinsdorf can't sell fast enough but his legacy is already branded onto the White Sox franchise. The damage done in his 20+ years of ownership may be irreparable even with a winning White Sox team.

I don't think so. If the team could manage to make the playoffs a couple of years in a row and maybe even advance past the first round it would do wonders. We fans are dying for a winning team. Hell, the whole city is dying for a winning team in anything.

Just look at last year when everyone thought they would make it to the post-season. The attendance really shot up.

red faber
01-03-2004, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I don't think so. If the team could manage to make the playoffs a couple of years in a row and maybe even advance past the first round it would do wonders. We fans are dying for a winning team. Hell, the whole city is dying for a winning team in anything.

Just look at last year when everyone thought they would make it to the post-season. The attendance really shot up.
.



exactly,but for some strange reason,some people don't think winning will equate to bigger crowds

go figure???

StillMissOzzie
01-03-2004, 04:28 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
Speaking of White Sox mechandise, a lot of rappers wear White Sox gear. I am sure JR is delighted about that.

:reinsy

"For shizzle, dizzle."

LMAO, fellow Lombardian!


SMO
:gulp:

Hangar18
01-04-2004, 12:42 PM
How Is Uncle Jerrys Health these days?
He cant torture us forever can he?

Frater Perdurabo
01-05-2004, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by Hangar18
How Is Uncle Jerrys Health these days?
He cant torture us forever can he?

Hangar, you'd better watch it so you don't incriminate yourself......

:)