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View Full Version : Bruce Levine Speaks this morning on AM 1000


Soxdude
12-27-2003, 12:37 PM
He said that the Sox will probably deal Ordonez to get under budget, most likely to the Dodgers. Then they may go for a pitcher. But he said that they will end up 3rd or 4th because they wanna start the season with Garland @ 3 in rotation, Harris @ 2B, and Rowand @ CF. He also said that KW is "done" for this offseason. When did KW ever start?

CubKilla
12-27-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Soxdude
When did KW ever start?

Uribe was huge..... MONSTER!

DrCrawdad
12-27-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Soxdude
He said that the Sox will probably deal Ordonez to get under budget, most likely to the Dodgers. Then they may go for a pitcher. But he said that they will end up 3rd or 4th because they wanna start the season with Garland @ 3 in rotation, Harris @ 2B, and Rowand @ CF. He also said that KW is "done" for this offseason. When did KW ever start?

1. KC
2. Twits
3. Cleveland
4. White Sox

Is this what Bruce "VineLine" Levine has predicted?

If KW has yet to deal Ordonez, is KW done?

mike squires
12-27-2003, 02:17 PM
So, again, Who does that leave playing right field? :(:

Blueprint1
12-27-2003, 02:21 PM
Yeah things are not looking up for the Sox right now

chisoxt
12-27-2003, 02:38 PM
1. KC
2. Twits
3. Cleveland
4. White Sox

Is this what Bruce "VineLine" Levine has predicted?

If KW has yet to deal Ordonez, is KW done?

If this is the case, the Sox might as well not stop with Mags and trade every marketable player for prospects. There is no point in aspiring to be a fourth place team.

fquaye149
12-27-2003, 03:24 PM
even if we traded maggs for no one and left the roster as is we still would not finish behind cleveland...

jamteh
12-27-2003, 04:20 PM
Wow, the difference a year makes. Last year at this time I felt really good about the team. They hadn't gotten Bartolo yet, but you just felt something good was going to happen. This year I feel miserable about this team. I can't wait to see what the ad campaign will be this year:

1. Hey, there's nothing wrong with trading our best player for scraps!

2. That shower really comes in handy when it's 45 degrees in April!

3. Willie Harris is the best pinch runner in the AL Central!

4. Jose Uribe will take us all the way.

5. Minnie Minoso likes our chances.

6. If we start planning now, we can win a World Series in the next 13 seasons before its the 100th anniversary of our last championship.

Ugh!

Jerko
12-27-2003, 04:37 PM
If Willie Harris even sniffs the starting lineup it's going to be difficult for me to get upset after losses this year.

CubKilla
12-27-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
If Willie Harris even sniffs the starting lineup it's going to be difficult for me to get upset after losses this year.

I'm already prepared for the worst.

Barring a cataclysmic event, Harris will probably bat lead-off and play 2B.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-27-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
I'm already prepared for the worst.

Barring a cataclysmic event, Harris will probably bat lead-off and play 2B.

This is very bad news indeed. I honestly felt the Sox would do something, *anything*, to prevent this from happening. Now I'm genuinely concerned it might truly come to pass. Harris leading off as the everyday 2B is reminding me of the nightmares from 2001 when Julio Ramirez was batting #8 ahead of Royce Clayton (and behind Sandy Alomar) in Jerry Manuel's "Big D" line up.

The '04 Sox could be scary bad. Only the A.L. Norris Division schedule gives us a chance of not embarrassing ourselves.

:jerry
"Yeah, but think how much Mr. Reinsdorf is saving on fewer post-game ice cream trips!"

Brian26
12-27-2003, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
The '04 Sox could be scary bad. Only the A.L. Norris Division schedule gives us a chance of not embarrassing ourselves.


The only good thing about this year is that we'll all go into the season with the lowest expectations for this team since probably the spring of 2000.

The Sox usually fare pretty well when expectations are low. So...maybe Koch, Konerko, Rowand, and Speedy Willie surprise us all this year and the Sox win 90+ games.

TornLabrum
12-27-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
The Sox usually fare pretty well when expectations are low.

I keep hearing this, but the only seasons that are ever mentioned are 1990 and 2000. Once every decade isn't "usually." I don't think expectations were very high in 2002, and they didn't disappoint. I don't think expectations were very high during the "Kids Can Play" era, and except for 2000, they didn't disappoint.

mdep524
12-27-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by chisoxt
If this is the case, the Sox might as well not stop with Mags and trade every marketable player for prospects. There is no point in aspiring to be a fourth place team.

I totally agree. Let's not kid ourselves- if this is what we are going to get, we'll suck. The only thing more pathetic than a 4th place team is a 4th place team consisting of veteran stopgaps passed off as a competitive team. It's all about the prospects. Sadly, rebuilding is the best way to go.

Brian26
12-27-2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by TornLabrum
I keep hearing this, but the only seasons that are ever I don't think expectations were very high in 2002, and they didn't disappoint. I don't think expectations were very high during the "Kids Can Play" era, and except for 2000, they didn't disappoint.

I think expectations in 2002 were very high, as people were hoping that 2001 was just a bump in the road and the Sox could get back to their 2000 form.

The Sox had the best or 2nd best record in the AL in the 2nd half of 1999. I think they played well beyond their expectations. The Kids Can Play Era was 1999 and 2000, right?

soxwon
12-27-2003, 11:02 PM
call me foolish- but we will win the division, have faith.
when were not suupose to do much we OVERACHIEVE, youll see.
white sox AL central division champs-2004
yessssssssssssssssssss

Lip Man 1
12-27-2003, 11:45 PM
Brian:

The first "kids can play" era began in 1998.

and it's very sad that White Sox fans have to 'hope' for a number of players to do well to win the worst division in baseball doesn't it. What does that say for this organization?

Lip

longshot7
12-27-2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by soxwon
call me foolish- but we will win the division, have faith.
when were not suupose to do much we OVERACHIEVE, youll see.
white sox AL central division champs-2004
yessssssssssssssssssss

I truly envy your optimism. I just hope every real Sox fan does their part NOT to support this ragtag exucse for a team. We're gonna get murdered this season in the attendance contest vs. the Northsiders, and for once, we deserve it.

CLR01
12-27-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Brian:

The first "kids can play" era began in 1998.

and it's very sad that White Sox fans have to 'hope' for a number of players to do well to win the worst division in baseball doesn't it. What does that say for this organization?

Lip


I didn't realize you could win any division by not doing well.

Brian26
12-28-2003, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Brian:

The first "kids can play" era began in 1998.

Thought it started in '99 since we still had Robin and Belle in '98. My bad.

Lip Man 1
12-28-2003, 12:14 AM
CLR01:

Forgive me for being misleading perhaps I should have said it's unfortunate that Sox fans have to hope that their team will do well instead of knowing that unless a rash of injuries take place, they will be doing well especially in the weakest division in baseball and being the largest market in that same division.

Lip

duke of dorwood
12-28-2003, 12:32 AM
WE dont do well against teams in our division. We lose to the West regularly, and the East features 4 teams better than us when the season starts.

It does bode bad as things stand right now.

dickallen15
12-28-2003, 08:34 AM
Bruce Levineline says the Sox are done this off season, and will finish fourth. This is the same Bruce Levineline who said Frank Thomas was done last year, and should be benched. He said Konerko and Daubach should do the bulk of the playing. He is a fool who wants to be on WGN. He is less accurate than Peter Gammons. First he says the Sox have a lot of oars in the water, then all of a sudden he says they aren't going to do anything. But wait, he says they are going to trade Ordonez, and might sign a pitcher. He is a hack who has no business being paid to voice his opinion on the radio. Don't pay any attention to him, he has no more inside knowledge than anyone on this board.

hsnterprize
12-28-2003, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by dickallen15
Bruce Levineline says the Sox are done this off season, and will finish fourth. This is the same Bruce Levineline who said Frank Thomas was done last year, and should be benched. He said Konerko and Daubach should do the bulk of the playing. He is a fool who wants to be on WGN. He is less accurate than Peter Gammons. First he says the Sox have a lot of oars in the water, then all of a sudden he says they aren't going to do anything. But wait, he says they are going to trade Ordonez, and might sign a pitcher. He is a hack who has no business being paid to voice his opinion on the radio. Don't pay any attention to him, he has no more inside knowledge than anyone on this board. The funny thing is I see a lot of people get excited when Levine says things we like hearing. Of course, he's going to prognosticate how the Sox and Cubs are going to do this season...that's his job. But like you waid, he has no more inside information that you or I do.

Now I can tell you as a member of the media that people like Bruce and myself can get to more people than the "average fan", but even the "experts" on TV and radio can be wrong. We all know that. And besides...as much as I like to go along pessimists on this site and say the Sox are done before they even start, let's not forget that we all felt the same way last year after the Sox started off so slowly last season. There was a lot of hype the Sox would start off the 2003 season with a bang, and actually started with a serious thud.

Levine can say whatever he wants to basically. I notice there isn't much crying over his comments whenever he says things we want to hear, so I think all this criticism of Levine is hypocritical. How much "insider information" does he have if he were to say the Sox have the inside track to win the division? Not much, I guess.

Take whatever he says with a grain of salt. I know it's frustrating to hear more and more negativity against the Sox...especially when the Cubs seems to be sucking up every free agent they can find and taking all the headlines. Heck...even their failures get more press than the Sox' successes, but we should be used to that. However, we can still fight to get our team on the front page, but there's only so much we can do. Jerry and Kenny have to have the guts to buck whatever trends they're running on and make this team a competitive one...and I blame Reinsdorf more than Williams. KW at least made the effort over the years to make the team more marketable and competitive.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-28-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Brian:

The first "kids can play" era began in 1998.

and it's very sad that White Sox fans have to 'hope' for a number of players to do well to win the worst division in baseball doesn't it. What does that say for this organization?

Lip

Technically speaking, the first "kids can play" era began in July, 1997. That is when veterans like Harold Baines, Doug Drabek and Danny Darwin were traded (along with younger veterans like Roberto Hernandez and Wilson Alvarez) in a series of White Flag trades.

With the veterans gone, kids like Chris "Not Roger" Clemons, and Scott "Not Jane" Eyre were given a chance to see whether they could close the 3-1/2 game gap with Cleveland. Even though Robin Ventura was back from a season-long compound ankle fracture, the team was doomed. Reinsdorf likes to spin this story as "proof" the '97 team couldn't have caught Cleveland. The truth is nobody knows for sure because neither Clemons or Eyre had any business pitching in the rotation of a contending team.

By 1998 the Sox were busy with damage control on the White Flag P.R. fiasco, rushing the mentally-challenged Mike Caruso from A ball to the parent team to justify all the talent they picked up by throwing away the '97 season.

The fans have never been back and that's the undisputed lasting legacy of the White Flag trade. Try spinning that one, Jerry Reinsdorf.

****ing moron.

:angry:

Deadguy
12-28-2003, 09:31 AM
I'm still pretty optimistic about our chances in 2004, mainly because the division is so weak. This is our time to capitalize on the weakness of the division, rather than try and go into rebuilding mode. That's why I'd rather hold on to Magglio for one more season, and risk losing him via FA, rather than trade him for prospects.

I could easilly envision us finishing anywhere between 1st and 3rd, but certainly wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox winning the division in 2004.

gosox41
12-28-2003, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Soxdude
He said that the Sox will probably deal Ordonez to get under budget, most likely to the Dodgers. Then they may go for a pitcher. But he said that they will end up 3rd or 4th because they wanna start the season with Garland @ 3 in rotation, Harris @ 2B, and Rowand @ CF. He also said that KW is "done" for this offseason. When did KW ever start?

I wish I had the date and thread name of a thread I posted to aroundthe beginning of last season. It was on my usual rants about what a mistake the Koch trade was and how KW is awful as a GM.

I seem to recall making a comment that with KW under the helm the Sox could be a last place team by 2005.


Even though it's 4 months befroe the season starts, I think I'm on the right track. If this team stays the way it is right now, then I 100% agree with Bruce. The Sox can easily be a 4th place team in 2004.

If that happens, I wonder how many KW backers will still think he is a good GM.

Bob

Danryan
12-28-2003, 11:10 AM
Let us not be so negative about the 04 season. Don't shed a tear over Colon, he barely was a 500 pitcher. Robbie Alomar is over priced for what he brings to the table these days, and Everrt is not a center fielder anymore. We couldn't score a run with 5 hits in a row last year, because we had no speed. Our base running was terrible, we must have been thrown out at third a dozen times last year with less than two outs. I believe we will be better by subtraction of Manuel with the same team. Granted we need pitching both starting and relief, but maybe something may happen by opening day.

Daver
12-28-2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Danryan
Let us not be so negative about the 04 season. Don't shed a tear over Colon, he barely was a 500 pitcher. Robbie Alomar is over priced for what he brings to the table these days, and Everrt is not a centerfielder anymore. We couldn't score a run with 5 hits in a row last year, because we had no speed. Our base running was terrible, we must have been thrown out at third a dozen times last year with less than two outs. I believe we will be better by subtraction of Manuel with the same team. Granted we need pitching both staring and relief, but maybe something may happen by opening day.

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

anewman35
12-28-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by gosox41

I seem to recall making a comment that with KW under the helm the Sox could be a last place team by 2005.


Last place? In a division that still has Detroit in it? Now that's funny.

surfdudes
12-28-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Brian:

The first "kids can play" era began in 1998.

and it's very sad that White Sox fans have to 'hope' for a number of players to do well to win the worst division in baseball doesn't it. What does that say for this organization?

Lip

.................and Kansas City, the Cubs, and the Marlins last year?
Expectations or Hope?
If Harris or Rowand or Borchard or Cotts or any of these "hopeless" ballplayers described on these boards do anything above mediocre, I expect everybody who posted all the gloom and doom stuff to parade down State street with their underpants on their head. I'll play Joe the friggin bagman in a minute as long as he's not a plodding, can't bun't or hit to the right side 20 HR .260 hitter who steals 2 bases a decade. We already have a dugout full of them.
Oh ya, and everybody give Ozzie a chance before you crucify him. It's not like any of the "Einsteins" that preceded him for the past 40 years have done anything.

surfdudes
12-28-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Soxdude
He said that the Sox will probably deal Ordonez to get under budget, most likely to the Dodgers. Then they may go for a pitcher. But he said that they will end up 3rd or 4th because they wanna start the season with Garland @ 3 in rotation, Harris @ 2B, and Rowand @ CF. He also said that KW is "done" for this offseason. When did KW ever start?

I'm not done yet. Before I go cut my wrists because I've spent more than 10 minutes on this website, Bruce Levine can fly out to San Diego and kiss my sandy posterior.
I want him to post his predictions for last year so everbody to see them, then we will see if his opinions carry any weight.
I have a feeling he is as disconnected as Gammons. Sox are third or second with their power alone, Minnesota is in shambles, and Detroit is a better team than anybody thinks. K.C. scares me most, but this division is up for grabs.

Soxdude
12-28-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
I'm still pretty optimistic about our chances in 2004, mainly because the division is so weak. This is our time to capitalize on the weakness of the division, rather than try and go into rebuilding mode. That's why I'd rather hold on to Magglio for one more season, and risk losing him via FA, rather than trade him for prospects.

I could easilly envision us finishing anywhere between 1st and 3rd, but certainly wouldn't be surprised to see the Sox winning the division in 2004.
In ur sig, do you think those are Franks real muscles or are they just implants? :D:

gosox41
12-29-2003, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
Last place? In a division that still has Detroit in it? Now that's funny.

Dombrowski inherited a truly awful team. And maybe it won't be 2005, but at the pace the Sox are going, they can easily fall into last shortly after that.

I do know I'd take Dombrowski over KW as GM.

Bob

itchy
12-29-2003, 09:03 AM
I'm not going into a tailspin about this team just because someone said something on the radio. It's not opening day yet, and I don't think any of the free agents that we lost were worth their salaries. Like most of you, I won't be happy if this current roster takes the field in April, but I don't think that's the plan. Did anyone think our 2B situation was good a year ago today? Or CF? Or 5th starter? Any "leadoff" hitter? And how are the Twins looking these days?

CubKilla
12-29-2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by itchy
It's not opening day yet, and I don't think any of the free agents that we lost were worth their salaries.

They may have not been worth their salaries but the White Sox have not gone out and acquired ONE replacement. That is truly a problem for a team that is going to be sold to White Sox fans as a contender.

KingXerxes
12-29-2003, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Danryan
Let us not be so negative about the 04 season. Don't shed a tear over Colon, he barely was a 500 pitcher.

While there can be no arguing over his won/loss record - exactly who in our rotation is going to replace his innings? The loss of this guy puts added pressure on every single member of the pitching staff.

itchy
12-29-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
They may have not been worth their salaries but the White Sox have not gone out and acquired ONE replacement. That is truly a problem for a team that is going to be sold to White Sox fans as a contender.

Colon's innings need to be replaced, I agree. That is probably the top priority this offseason. My point is that it doesn't need to happen yet. Right now we could complain that we missed out on somebody, like "where was KW when Miguel Batista signed for $x." I may be wrong, but I don't see a lot of missed opportunities so far. I think Colon's lost innings will be replaced, probably by a trade, and by a trade that will break loose once the other big free agents are snapped up.

As for other replacements, Roberto Alomar, in his current state, is generally bad offensively, and is easily replaceable. I wouldn't spend a dime to get someone to hit a punchless .260 and play a reasonable 2B Graff is a utility player, and we have another one that plays better defense in Uribe. I would have liked to retain Everett, and frankly I don't think I understand fully why we couldn't (or wouldn't) sign him, but we will need a good LH stick somewhere in the lineup.

I liked Gordon and Sully a lot, but I think it's smart to try to replace those guys on the cheap. Oakland and Minnesota, other successful "small market" teams, do the same thing with RH relief pitchers, and generally quite effectively. Our own KW has done it on the cheap effectively for several years.

So, maybe I have been drinking too much of the KW Kool Aid this holiday, but I think changes can, and will, come by opening day.

WillieHarris12
12-29-2003, 02:58 PM
ROFL you just copied and pasted what I posted @ Soxtalk.