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inta
12-24-2003, 06:42 AM
from today's SunTimes:


December 24, 2003

BY MIKE KILEY


Dusty Baker and Jim Hendry have done what once seemed impossible: They have sold the historically pitiful Cubs as the in place to be.

Second baseman Todd Walker is the latest player to decide that a higher salary and a guaranteed starting job are secondary to a chance at winning the World Series.


this is what i feared feared feared FEARED the most. if there's this type of attitude towards the cubs and playing in what everyone except 5% of chicago views as a "classic stadium backdrop".... the cubs can be struggling by midseason (fat chance) and be able to snag anyone.

is it just me or are the rest of you also waiting to exhale in fear that the cubs will sign someone huge?

the paranoid WSI member in me fears that they've signed these half dozen catchers to mess with my head and they'll grab pudge....


now this all comes back to G0d damm jerry reinsdorf... WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WAITING FOR MAN?
do you think all the kids you let run the bases on willy wonka sundays are going to become lifelong sox fans?

steal the thunder from the cubs signing all these maybe's.
go nuts, dont expect KW to pull rabbits out of his A$$ again, coz it's not going to happpen.
dont you know the cubs winning it all is going to kill southside baseball?
hell, i can even deal with the sox making it a round or two into the playoffs and the cubs making it further... at least i'd have the satisfaction of knowing we tried... at least i'd have had a summer of good baseball to watch, not 7 months of hell that would kill me worse than 1994.


god i feel sick...
maybe god meant me to be a sox fan... in boston.
:(:

inta
12-24-2003, 06:53 AM
ugh, reading through the rest of the article

located @ : http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-cub24.html

you find such gems as: the Cubs re-signed Grudzielanek for $2.5 million to return as the starter after he batted .314 last season and impressed with his defense and ability to battle through injuries.
Walker, whose .283 average was accompanied by 13 homers and 85 RBI, is not ready to begin that competition quite yet.
"I have not gotten that far,'' he said. "I wanted to be part of the team. I could have gone other places and had my starts. But this is more of a team thing than individual thing. I haven't thought about any competition. I want to play for a team with the chance to win the World Series.''


a guy taking less salary for a chance to win.
even if the cubs dont have that chance (which they do), why cant we attract players who WANT to play for us?

maybe this is what it's like to be an Iraqi realizing that what you always thought was right.... is actually wrong.

hsnterprize
12-24-2003, 07:13 AM
I know it's pretty tough to constantly hear, "Cubs sign this person." or "Cubs sign that guy." Believe me, I'd love to see the Sox get some players and some positive headlines. Remember, though...the transactions that made the Sox competitive last year didn't happen until after January of 2003. So hold on tight. I know it's frustrating, but I have some strange hunch KW is going to pull some magic out of his hat after the new year.

Besides...if KW had the Tribune-sized budget Jim Hendry had, maybe our team would have all these free agents right now. Not to mention...it's not spring training yet. On paper, the Cubs will be very competitive. However, the Cubs were NL Champs on paper last year, too...and we all know what happened, don't we?

Baby Fisk
12-24-2003, 09:26 AM
EVERYBODY STOP PANICKING ABOUT THE FLUBS!

Remember this unshakeable truth about baseball: The Flubs cannot have two winning seasons in a row. The Flubs cannot top a great season with an even greater one. They are guaranteed to disappoint. They are guaranteed to flub it in 2004. Right now they are doing what they do best: raising the hopes of their moronic fanbase into the stratosphere, only to come crashing down.

Next year's Flubs will be the dud of 2004. This I Ga-Ron-Tee!

:thankgod

TornLabrum
12-24-2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
EVERYBODY STOP PANICKING ABOUT THE FLUBS!

Remember this unshakeable truth about baseball: The Flubs cannot have two winning seasons in a row. The Flubs cannot top a great season with an even greater one. They are guaranteed to disappoint. They are guaranteed to flub it in 2004. Right now they are doing what they do best: raising the hopes of their moronic fanbase into the stratosphere, only to come crashing down.

Next year's Flubs will be the dud of 2004. This I Ga-Ron-Tee!

:thankgod

The only thing we can hope for to prevent the Cute and Cuddlies from winning the NL Central this year is a repeat of what happened to their starting pitching in 1985.

Baby Fisk
12-24-2003, 10:28 AM
...sorta like what happened to Sox pitching in 1984.

(ouch!)

My pick to not click in 2004 is Kerry Wood. Because of that, there will be too much pressure on Prior and he will also fade.

maurice
12-24-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
Remember, though...the transactions that made the Sox competitive last year didn't happen until after January of 2003.

Actually, three major ones weren't completed until mid-season (Everett, Alomar, Sullivan), and a long, hot streak followed. The Sox fell short, because they waited too long to pull the trigger. If JR put up the money to get guys like that before the season started, the Sox would have won the division handily.

Unfortunately, it looks like history is repeating itself.

joeynach
12-24-2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by inta
from today's SunTimes:


December 24, 2003

BY MIKE KILEY


Dusty Baker and Jim Hendry have done what once seemed impossible: They have sold the historically pitiful Cubs as the in place to be.

Second baseman Todd Walker is the latest player to decide that a higher salary and a guaranteed starting job are secondary to a chance at winning the World Series.


this is what i feared feared feared FEARED the most. if there's this type of attitude towards the cubs and playing in what everyone except 5% of chicago views as a "classic stadium backdrop".... the cubs can be struggling by midseason (fat chance) and be able to snag anyone.

is it just me or are the rest of you also waiting to exhale in fear that the cubs will sign someone huge?

the paranoid WSI member in me fears that they've signed these half dozen catchers to mess with my head and they'll grab pudge....


now this all comes back to G0d damm jerry reinsdorf... WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WAITING FOR MAN?
do you think all the kids you let run the bases on willy wonka sundays are going to become lifelong sox fans?

steal the thunder from the cubs signing all these maybe's.
go nuts, dont expect KW to pull rabbits out of his A$$ again, coz it's not going to happpen.
dont you know the cubs winning it all is going to kill southside baseball?
hell, i can even deal with the sox making it a round or two into the playoffs and the cubs making it further... at least i'd have the satisfaction of knowing we tried... at least i'd have had a summer of good baseball to watch, not 7 months of hell that would kill me worse than 1994.


god i feel sick...
maybe god meant me to be a sox fan... in boston.
:(:

Let us not forget that Alou, Prior, Grudz, Ramirez, Borowski, Simon, Lofton, Patterson, etc all cant have career or come back years 2 in a row. After a team usually over achieves the next year they come back down to earth, cough anaheim, cubs 85, cubs 90, cubs 99, cough!

DannyCaterFan
12-24-2003, 02:58 PM
Listen Baby Fisk, you may think the Cubs will fold in 2004, and their long history of failure suggests they might, but for the first time in my memory the Cubs are following up a winning season with increased spending and smart shopping. As a 40 year Sox fan with a history of watching the two teams compete in the Chicago market, I have never seen the Cubs try as hard to win as they seem to be right now. Don't make the mistake of thinking they can't go to the World Series.
At the same time, I think it is absolutely a must that Jerry Reinsdorf get off his rear end and spend some of that revenue he has been socking away for years. The ownership conglomerate needs to either pressure Jerry to compete with the Cubs or sell so somebody else can preserve the White Sox franchise.
The White Sox are at a critical juncture in their long history. They MUST step up to the plate, make the moves to make them a winner, thus bringing fans into their ballpark. If not, and they fall back to a second division team, the Cubs will further cement their hold on the city of Chicago.
Remember one more thing Sox fans, these winning seasons are cyclical, and this too will pass. At some point the Cubs will fade and the Sox will rise again!

wassagstdu
12-24-2003, 03:11 PM
I don't know about anyone else (well actually I do, but never mind) but the reason I disliked the Cubs is that they never did what they are doing now, never built a winner but always over-hyped their lovable players. If they are good I say good for them. What does it take away from the Sox? It doesn't make them worse (may make them better) or lose fans. (Anyone really believe there are Sox fans who will switch, no matter what happens? Those who would already did years ago.)

On the other hand, wishing injuries on them, as several did recently, makes Sox fans look ridiculous and hateful, and actually could chase away a few Sox fans.

inta
12-24-2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by Baby Fisk
EVERYBODY STOP PANICKING ABOUT THE FLUBS!

Remember this unshakeable truth about baseball: The Flubs cannot have two winning seasons in a row. The Flubs cannot top a great season with an even greater one.


kinda like the "unshakeable truth" that the cubs cant make it out of the first round of playoffs?

honestly, i hope you're right my friend. i honestly do.
but i'm not going to hold to a superstition.

Baby Fisk
12-26-2003, 03:50 PM
Inta & DannyCater:

My desperate clutching to the bosom of history is really nothing more than a hallucinatory and deranged reaction to the utter lack of activity by the Sox this off-season. I'm reduced to rooting for curses! I know I know, it's early, give it time, KW is Da Man and will Make It Happen, but at this point all I can do is repeat the mantra that the Cubs will fail, instead of the mantra that the Sox will win. Can anyone show me evidence to the contrary?

This off-season sucks!

Happy Kwanzaa...

Lip Man 1
12-26-2003, 06:54 PM
Inta:

There's an old saying...you get what you pay for.

Sandy Alderson was quoted after the Cubs got Lee as saying that 'cash is king...'

Meaning if you have it or more importantly are willing to take a chance even if you don't have it, you are able to take advantages of circumstances when they present themselves.

Like Phil Rogers said the Sox problem is that before they can move forward and acquire talent, they have to unload other talent first. (Which by its very natire doesn't accomplish a thing, its a zero sum game...)

Because the Cubs are willing to have a payroll of 90 million they have the distinct advantage when trying to get players.

The Sox meanwhile claim they don't have the money and are unwilling to go out on a credit limb so they (and by proxy their fans) are completely, totally, royally screwed.


We'll see what develops this summer...maybe Ozzie can light a fire on whatever talent that remains but even the best manager can't take a plowhorse and turn him into a triple Crown winner. As Ozzie himself said at the Winter Meetings..."You can't race a donkey in the Kentucky derby. You have to have good horses."

Lip

joecrede
12-26-2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
We'll see what develops this summer...maybe Ozzie can light a fire on whatever talent that remains but even the best manager can't take a plowhorse and turn him into a triple Crown winner. As Ozzie himself said at the Winter Meetings..."You can't race a donkey in the Kentucky derby. You have to have good horses."

Lip

Thankfully the AL Central isn't the Kentucky Derby.

CubKilla
12-27-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
Thankfully the AL Central isn't the Kentucky Derby.

It's not even a turtle race. All the more reason to further despise JR and his penny-pinching ways of running this Organization into the ground.

munchman33
12-27-2003, 08:06 AM
Don't worry too much about the Cubs. Remember they only won their division by one game last year. Sure, they made some good moves, but so have the other teams in their division. Houston had VERY spotting starting pitching last year, and now boasts a full rotation (Clemens would be a bonus). The Cards rotation and bullpen was thin last year, and they've addressed that. Even with Derrick Lee, the Cubs offense is at best third in that group. Even with Latroy Hawkins, their bullpen lags behind Houston's. And the Cubs are nothing special defensively.

Add to this the fact that Juan Cruz will be in the rotation, along with super-dead arm Carlos Zambrano (why does no one remember how ineffective he was the last 10 weeks of the season?) and the Cub's rotation, while top heavy, may be significantly worse than that of the others in the NL Central.

I have more confidence that we can take the AL Central with our current makeshift roster than that the Cubs can take the NL Central.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-27-2003, 10:24 AM
Here's a question for the group...

If the Cleveland Indians were still a juggernaut like they were from 1995-99, would the '04 Sox be cutting payroll and crying poor?

I bet Reinsdorf would "find" the money to at least make it look good. He would at least try to sign another big free agent to make up for what he already lost. Of course he would be satisfied with finishing second, too.

Reinsdorf knows he is in a lousy division. He probably figures he can sleepwalk all winter and still finish second next September.

I truly wish *somebody* would make this division competitive. Reinsdorf would field a AAA team if he thought he could get away with it. Who else remembers Oil Can Boyd in a Sox uniform back in 1995?

joecrede
12-27-2003, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
It's not even a turtle race. All the more reason to further despise JR and his penny-pinching ways of running this Organization into the ground.

The problem is that Williams decided to pay Koch, Konerko, and Lee a combined $20M for '04. Besides being ordinary at best, these players play positions where replacements can more easily be found.

After the contracts that were given to Koch and Konerko I thought Williams was getting the hang of the GM's job. He's done a pretty good job of gathering talent, but the contracts he's given out are another story. The Lee signing was a disappointment. I hope he did it to make him more attractive to Danny Evans in a trade.

wassagstdu
12-27-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by inta
this is what i feared feared feared FEARED the most. ...
...hell, i can even deal with the sox making it a round or two into the playoffs and the cubs making it further...
Are Sox fans like the Democratic Party today: defined only by what we hate and fear??

inta
12-29-2003, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by wassagstdu
Are Sox fans like the Democratic Party today: defined only by what we hate and fear??

gah, moronic statement.

if you knew anything about the sox, you'd know that the more successfull the cubs, the less attention the sox get.

the more successfull the cubs, the less attendance the sox get.

the less attendance the sox get, the more sox management jerks us around (raised ticket prices, lower team budgets, etc etc).

are you like the republican party? saying whatever dumb ideas come to your head without knowing the facts?

TommyJohn
12-29-2003, 05:04 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Who else remembers Oil Can Boyd in a Sox uniform back in 1995?

I don't, but I do remember John Kruk, Chris Sabo, Rob Dibble
and the immortal Chris Snopek.

StillMissOzzie
12-29-2003, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Who else remembers Oil Can Boyd in a Sox uniform back in 1995?

Yes, he was gonna be one of the scab replacement players. I happen to have a Sox press guide from that shameful (as if JR even knows the meaning of the word) period of MLB history. Talk about a collection of has-beens, never-were's, and wannabe's...

SMO

SSN721
12-29-2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Here's a question for the group...

I truly wish *somebody* would make this division competitive. Reinsdorf would field a AAA team if he thought he could get away with it. Who else remembers Oil Can Boyd in a Sox uniform back in 1995?

I shameful year even I as a youngin' remember being completely disgusted in the lineup/staff of that team. Such a deflation after the great potential in '94 and an awful follow up to the strike that put me on strike from the game for the next 4-5 years. :angry:

wassagstdu
12-29-2003, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by inta
gah, moronic statement.


Seems like I hit a nerve. But I do apologize for the gratuitious reference to politics.

As for the substance of the response, I have never noticed much difference when the Sox were good and the Cubs stunk or vice versa -- no, I mean when both stunk. But what if the Cubs were a good, interesting team, instead of a teddy bear? Might that not increase the interest in baseball across the city and send MORE south siders to Comiskey -- or whatever it's called now? Also, if the Cubs were once winners wouldn't they lose forever their national following as lovable losers?

I have the luxury of living far away from Chicago and therefore not having to deal with Cub fans (though all of my family, once Sox fans, have been Cub fans since the Sox left WGN decades ago -- an exodus that had nothing to do with the quality of either team). But I doubt that Cub fans in Chicago have anything more negative to say about the Sox than what I read on this board every day. Sox fans have rightly criticized the Cubs fans and organization for living on hype and cuteness and not caring about quality. If we now continue to hate and fear them when they are doing a better job of building quality baseball than the Sox, what does that make us?

Also, the success of the Michael Jordan Bulls probably hurt interest in the Sox and baseball in general in Chicago more than anything the Cubs have done or could do. Remember Jordan's announcement upstaging the Sox during their first playoff game? Did you hate and fear the Bulls?

:thankgod

Hangar18
12-29-2003, 02:31 PM
Look who wrote the Article. Mike Kiley. the king of Cub Propoganda and writer of anything that
a. makes the cubs look good
b. writes pieces that are more "wishful"
c. inserts commentary, almost always positive, into cub stories,
so the reader can assume them as fact

in this case, Kiley is hoping that the fact he wrote this piece, it will convince FA's to come here, because look, Hollandsworth just did (Kiley lied by saying Hollandsworth said NO to a more lucrative deal to play for a chance at a WS. total bs)

Hangar18
12-29-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by TommyJohn
I don't, but I do remember John Kruk, Chris Sabo, Rob Dibble
and the immortal Chris Snopek.

That was a very dark year. They basically gave away their core players, and brought in cheaper, more over-the-hill, more past-their-prime players and gave 95 away. I stopped watching the 95 season after they were swept in Cleveland in early May.

RKMeibalane
12-29-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Here's a question for the group...

If the Cleveland Indians were still a juggernaut like they were from 1995-99, would the '04 Sox be cutting payroll and crying poor?

I bet Reinsdorf would "find" the money to at least make it look good. He would at least try to sign another big free agent to make up for what he already lost. Of course he would be satisfied with finishing second, too.

Reinsdorf knows he is in a lousy division. He probably figures he can sleepwalk all winter and still finish second next September.

I truly wish *somebody* would make this division competitive. Reinsdorf would field a AAA team if he thought he could get away with it. Who else remembers Oil Can Boyd in a Sox uniform back in 1995?

I agree. As long as the AL Central remains the weakest division in baseball, Reinsdorf will sit on his rear end and do nothing. The division is bad enough that the Sox still have an excellent chance of winning next season, even though their roster looks like swiss cheese.

The Sox do have one thing going for them next season, however:

Jerry Manuel won't be around to screw things up.