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View Full Version : Here we go again .


john2499
12-22-2003, 12:25 AM
Has anyone seen this ?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/147918p-130540c.html

If this trade ever happens, since the Magglio-Nomar trade was contingent upon it, will the Sox be losing their best hitter the last 5 years ?

CubKilla
12-22-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by john2499
If this trade ever happens, since the Magglio-Nomar trade was contingent upon it, will the Sox be losing their best hitter the last 5 years ?

Yes.

Tragg
12-22-2003, 12:47 AM
Can someone like Daver or anyone else who has an insight into Kenny Williams please explain the point of this trade.

Maggs' 14 million dollar salary is more than we can handle - I get that. But Nomar makes 10-12 million himself - and Maggs is the better hitter. How do we GAIN from this deal? Why do WE want to do it, without a deal with the dodgers or whomever already worked out?
I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but is it possible that MLB is pressuring us so that they can get the great A Rod into an Eastern market? There is no way Boston would do this without us all firmed up to take excess. After all, the NBA rigged the draft lottery a time or two, so such notions are not completely paranoid delusions.

Meixner007
12-22-2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Can someone like Daver or anyone else who has an insight into Kenny Williams please explain the point of this trade.

Maggs' 14 million dollar salary is more than we can handle - I get that. But Nomar makes 10-12 million himself - and Maggs is the better hitter. How do we GAIN from this deal? Why do WE want to do it, without a deal with the dodgers or whomever already worked out?

I am not daver, nor do i claim to know as much as he does, but here's my 2 cents:
We gain the fact that Nomar would be sent to LA for pitching...nothing more nothing less. Now if you want to get into the aspects of that...well that's for another thread, but the fact is, in my opinion, management thinks we can lose a little in the OF and pick up on some pitching, while shedding some $$.

Tragg
12-22-2003, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
I am not daver, nor do i claim to know as much as he does, but here's my 2 cents:
We gain the fact that Nomar would be sent to LA for pitching...nothing more nothing less. Now if you want to get into the aspects of that...well that's for another thread, but the fact is, in my opinion, management thinks we can lose a little in the OF and pick up on some pitching, while shedding some $$.

That's fine - I favor the trade if Nomar is more valuable than maggs would be in a subsequent trade. But shouldn't we have that lined up BEFORE we take him on? Otherwise, a)what happens if we can't work out a deal b)aren't we in a stronger position if we DON'T have to trade Nomar - i.e. if we get him then try to work out a trade, we'll get less because the dodgers will know we have to trade him and c)It would seem to me that the dodgers need maggs more than they need nomar

Meixner007
12-22-2003, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
That's fine - I favor the trade if Nomar is more valuable than maggs would be in a subsequent trade. But shouldn't we have that lined up BEFORE we take him on? Otherwise, a)what happens if we can't work out a deal b)aren't we in a stronger position if we DON'T have to trade Nomar - i.e. if we get him then try to work out a trade, we'll get less because the dodgers will know we have to trade him and c)It would seem to me that the dodgers need maggs more than they need nomar

1. Never said Nomar was more valuble than Maggs
2 a, b. If we can't work out a deal we're screwed. Nomar has no desire to stay in Chicago. He lives in cali, and in a loose comparison he and his wife are like the Bekhams...they want to be in hollywood. Nomar, i believe has 1 year left on his contract. From what's been reported he will not sign an extended deal with the whitesox...so basically he's a "rent a player" But we are the one team in the league that would keep a player to screw another team/GM. Nomar has stated publicly that he doesn't want to be here. Maybe that will change in teh future. But I can guarentee you the stuborness/ballsyness of the ownership will not just give up Nomar for nothing.

Tragg
12-22-2003, 01:19 AM
First, a lot of my points are points directed at Sox mgt - didn't mean to imply they were your points (that nomar is more valuable than maggs - I assume the sox believe that, since they are making the trade).


If we can't work out a deal we're screwed .

As I've been asking, why make the deal UNTIL we work out a second deal?


Nomar has stated publicly that he doesn't want to be here. Maybe that will change in teh future.

Not sure what you mean by that, but I think we can proffer sufficient screwage by telling Boston they can keep Nomar.

But I can guarentee you the stuborness/ballsyness of the ownership will not just give up Nomar for nothing. Durham isn't as good as Nomar, but we certainly gave him up for nothing. And are we sure Nomar is more marketable than Maggs?

Tragg
12-22-2003, 01:21 AM
sorry for the 2x post

Meixner007
12-22-2003, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
First, a lot of my points are points directed at Sox mgt - didn't mean to imply they were your points (that nomar is more valuable than maggs - I assume the sox believe that, since they are making the trade).


If we can't work out a deal we're screwed .

As I've been asking, why make the deal UNTIL we work out a second deal?


Nomar has stated publicly that he doesn't want to be here. Maybe that will change in teh future.

Not sure what you mean by that, but I think we can proffer sufficient screwage by telling Boston they can keep Nomar.

But I can guarentee you the stuborness/ballsyness of the ownership will not just give up Nomar for nothing. Durham isn't as good as Nomar, but we certainly gave him up for nothing. And are we sure Nomar is more marketable than Maggs?

1. Who says we dont' have a "domino type of effect" going down with this trade.
2. From what i've read Nomar resides in southern LA, and with the endorsement possiblity of this couple it seems like a good place for him.
3. Yes we could screw Boston, but dont' think that there aren't a few other teams who would like a SS.
4. Yes we did give Durham up for nothing, but we'll ride Nomar's contract out if we have to. Is Nomar more marketable than maggs? I don't know. All i know is that no companies have given Maggs a shot (minus mcdonalds) but when was the last time you saw nomar in a commercial. Maggs is a great guy...at least from what i've read and heard from people...there's no reason he shouldn't be a major figure in american sports. WHy that isn't happening...well I have an idea, but I wont' expand on it.

Tragg
12-22-2003, 01:39 AM
Who says we dont' have a "domino type of effect" going down with this trade. I'm assuming we don't because the media isn't reporting that we do - and this entire discussion is based on media reports (that Boston has an agreement to trade nomar to us) - if they report that one, I assume they'd report our trade deal. I hope we do, however.

From what i've read Nomar resides in southern LA, and with the endorsement possiblity of this couple it seems like a good place for him.

Your point on endorsements is interesting and one I hadn't considered - however, that would be a reason for Nomar to want to go to LA - how does it affect LA wanting Nomar? A MJ situation perhaps? - outside income so high, that he's willing to take less contract money?

basilesox
12-22-2003, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
1. Who says we dont' have a "domino type of effect" going down with this trade.
2. From what i've read Nomar resides in southern LA, and with the endorsement possiblity of this couple it seems like a good place for him.
3. Yes we could screw Boston, but dont' think that there aren't a few other teams who would like a SS.
4. Yes we did give Durham up for nothing, but we'll ride Nomar's contract out if we have to. Is Nomar more marketable than maggs? I don't know. All i know is that no companies have given Maggs a shot (minus mcdonalds) but when was the last time you saw nomar in a commercial. Maggs is a great guy...at least from what i've read and heard from people...there's no reason he shouldn't be a major figure in american sports. WHy that isn't happening...well I have an idea, but I wont' expand on it.

I might be able to expand on it.....He doesnt speak very good english. That helps when marketing products in an english speaking nation. That aside..........he is a much better hitter than Nomar in my opinion. But neither one by themselves are going to take us far.....maybe if we had both...yeah im dreamin now.

Meixner007
12-22-2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by Tragg
Who says we dont' have a "domino type of effect" going down with this trade. I'm assuming we don't because the media isn't reporting that we do - and this entire discussion is based on media reports (that Boston has an agreement to trade nomar to us) - if they report that one, I assume they'd report our trade deal. I hope we do, however.

From what i've read Nomar resides in southern LA, and with the endorsement possiblity of this couple it seems like a good place for him.

Your point on endorsements is interesting and one I hadn't considered - however, that would be a reason for Nomar to want to go to LA - how does it affect LA wanting Nomar? A MJ situation perhaps? - outside income so high, that he's willing to take less contract money?

This trade was brought to our attention by otis a few weeks ago. Then a few days ago gammons mentions that maggs is apart of it. The reason the media doesn't mention it is either one, because they're the national media and therefore 1 step behind, and 2 KW and the sox organization is very quiet about such things.

As for how does it affect LA wanting Nomar...I think LA is a team who would be intersted in a solid SS with solid offensive numbers...somethign they're lacking desperately