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RichH55
12-21-2003, 02:46 AM
C- Olivo/Alomar about 1 million /Wooten(750 K)
1B- Thomas 6 million / Wooten
2B - Harris/ Uribe / Valentin? 600 K to 5.5
- Menechino? 500 K
SS- Nomar - 12
3B - Crede 300 K
OF - Lee 6.5
OF/OF - Payton(2.5)/Rowand/ Borchard/ Reed

I really like Wooten(especially if you can deal PK)...Best Shape of his career, plus he can catch

Menechino is probably worthless but it's not like we have Robbie Alomar in his prime as the backup option

Payton makes alot of sense, especially with one of Lee/Mags likely gone


Cliff Politte wouldnt be a bad bullpen option; Munro is gone, but a plethora of bullpen options out there who won't cost alot, but can bring something to the table

I still think Koch is gone(though he should rebound), but Wunsch at 800 K plus Marte is a start, Wright is probably gone at some point, Ginter should surprise, Schoenweiss needs to be non-tendered


Take most extra money and go for Starting Pitching

Buerhle- 3.5
Loaiza -4.5
Ponson -3 years 18 million (maybe the first year at 4 or 5)
Redman - 3.5 per? Or am I way off?
Garland - 2.0

Keep an eye to see if Pavano gets put on the market(I'd rather have him than Redman)...and failing Redman or maybe as option 1b Damian Moss

Lots of options out there

Not sure of Valentin's status: SS, 2B, Seattle?
Nomar or Mags?
Mags or Lee?
Koch?
Pk?


Should be interesting

soxfan26
12-21-2003, 05:17 AM
Shawn Wooten? Cliff Politte? Jay Payton? Frank Menechino?

Did anyone tell you the Nomar trade didn't happen?

Are you Wooten's agent or something? best shape of his career? Where are you getting this from? Wooten is the last thing we need, another slow right handed hitter.

Politte & Menechino = garbage

I wouldn't take Wooten, Politte, or Menechino if you paid me.

Payton won't be worth the asking price, and you have to wonder about a guy who 2 organizations have given up on.

JaylisJP
12-21-2003, 09:53 AM
all of these responses like...are you JR? are you KW? are you blah blah's agent? are tiresome and unimaginative. Come up with something else...you're old and broke. Nobody who posts a message wants to see that response. It's stupid.

RichH55
12-21-2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
Shawn Wooten? Cliff Politte? Jay Payton? Frank Menechino?

Did anyone tell you the Nomar trade didn't happen?

Are you Wooten's agent or something? best shape of his career? Where are you getting this from? Wooten is the last thing we need, another slow right handed hitter.

Politte & Menechino = garbage

I wouldn't take Wooten, Politte, or Menechino if you paid me.

Payton won't be worth the asking price, and you have to wonder about a guy who 2 organizations have given up on.


Let's see where to start:

A) It was an options list, and I'm not one of the people who think the Nomar deal is all the way gone, though its certainly not looking promising...if No Nomar then Valentin is your SS, no worries

B) Wooten dropped 20 pounds and is the best shape of his life according to rotoworld.com among other places, but hey you're pretty close to a troll so I'm sure facts mean little

C) What exactly is your issue with Politte? He's a pretty good bullpen guy and he would be a benefit here

D) I said Payton at 2.5 million? What else do you want? He has pretty good numbers and can play any of the OF positions depending on who you trade or if any rookies step up

E) Wooten can also catch, you see a ton of good catchers out there or something? Is Sandy Alomar a sure thing to play the whole year? Do we have much of anything in the organization for depth? Is Olivo still a young player who could very easily struggle with the bat and thus hurt a team with a legtimate chance at a divsion crown? What's the problem hyperbole boy?

Menechino is obviously the worst of the bunch...but he's a bench guy, just there for depth, we aren't exactly stacked at 2B anyway

Of course this helps the team and got money for more SPs which I think is probably our number one need

Whats the issue hyperbole boy? Or do I have to pay you to get crappy opinions as well and not just to add Ballplayers to the team

soxfan26
12-21-2003, 01:05 PM
A) It was an options list, and I'm not one of the people who think the Nomar deal is all the way gone, though its certainly not looking promising...if No Nomar then Valentin is your SS, no worries

The $7m salary difference is the significance. Plus the small detail of trading away Maggs.

B) Wooten dropped 20 pounds and is the best shape of his life according to rotoworld.com among other places, but hey you're pretty close to a troll so I'm sure facts mean little

I'm new. I work a full time job and go to school full time. I'm sorry if my posts count is not high enough to warrant your approval. I read more than I post, I guess that is your definition of a troll?

Anyway the point was if your going to make a statement like that and the opinion is from rotoworld.com, then it would be nice to see a link so I can be convinced he is in the best shape of his life also.


C) What exactly is your issue with Politte? He's a pretty good bullpen guy and he would be a benefit here

Let's start with a 5.66 ERA, But he made $845k last season plus had 25 saves. In these upside down economic times that translates into a $1m dollar bullpen arm. Let someone else overpay him.


D) I said Payton at 2.5 million? What else do you want? He has pretty good numbers and can play any of the OF positions depending on who you trade or if any rookies step up

Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee


E) Wooten can also catch, you see a ton of good catchers out there or something? Is Sandy Alomar a sure thing to play the whole year? Do we have much of anything in the organization for depth? Is Olivo still a young player who could very easily struggle with the bat and thus hurt a team with a legtimate chance at a divsion crown? What's the problem hyperbole boy?

The problem is we need SP like we need air. and Olivo is a hero, At least Wooten is a cheap alternative, and can play several positions, but most of your assumptions were based on unrealistic moves, like Nomar for instance,

Menechino is obviously the worst of the bunch...but he's a bench guy, just there for depth, we aren't exactly stacked at 2B anyway

Marlon Anderson

Of course this helps the team and got money for more SPs which I think is probably our number one need

Let's not forget you helped the team by making imaginary trades and free agent signings, some of which were unrealistic.


Whats the issue hyperbole boy? Or do I have to pay you to get crappy opinions as well and not just to add Ballplayers to the team

You said that twice Mr. redundant. But go for a third if you don't feel like you made your point. Or dazzle me with more of your vocabulary.

RichH55
12-21-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
The $7m salary difference is the significance. Plus the small detail of trading away Maggs.



I'm new. I work a full time job and go to school full time. I'm sorry if my posts count is not high enough to warrant your approval. I read more than I post, I guess that is your definition of a troll?

Anyway the point was if your going to make a statement like that and the opinion is from rotoworld.com, then it would be nice to see a link so I can be convinced he is in the best shape of his life also.



Let's start with a 5.66 ERA, But he made $845k last season plus had 25 saves. In these upside down economic times that translates into a $1m dollar bullpen arm. Let someone else overpay him.



Magglio Ordonez and Carlos Lee



The problem is we need SP like we need air. and Olivo is a hero, At least Wooten is a cheap alternative, and can play several positions, but most of your assumptions were based on unrealistic moves, like Nomar for instance,



Marlon Anderson



Let's not forget you helped the team by making imaginary trades and free agent signings, some of which were unrealistic.



You said that twice Mr. redundant. But go for a third if you don't feel like you made your point. Or dazzle me with more of your vocabulary.


A) The Nomar deal(with Williamson) was a Done deal conditional on something out of the Sox hands....right now it looks dead, but I think calling a done deal unrealistic is overstating it...I should have made my SS : Nomar (Jose if no Nomar deal)...but the post wasn't made as fact just as options, so I'm not beholden to the law of physics:)

B) Troll? Probably too far, just got done with Law School finals so I'm angry at the world, and being a Chicago Sports fan doesn't help that mentality

C) Politte I don't think we get 1 million, if he does then he is off my list, but he is a name to look at, and my main point was that there were/are alot of bullpen arms out there, so DONT overspend...I wanted Pete Munro afterall

D) You can't call me out for the Menechino idea, and then suggest Marlon Anderson as a viable option....they are both taken from a poor mold....I wouldn't mind either as bench guys, but neither does that much for me

E) Even with C. Lee and Mags, Payton wouldnt look good in CF for 2.5 million?

F) Most of the moves I suggested were very grounded in reality...thats why you don't see : Sign Vlad type stuff


Shawn Wooten - 1B - Anaheim Angels Dec 20

Angels non-tendered catcher-infielder Shawn Wooten.
Wooten has already lost over 20 pounds this winter and is committed to showing up at spring training in the best shape of his career, so it has to be disappointing to him that the Angels didn't offer him a contract. There are several AL teams that could use him as a bench player.

JDP
12-21-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
B) Troll? Probably too far, just got done with Law School finals so I'm angry at the world, and being a Chicago Sports fan doesn't help that mentality


Law School at U I?

doublem23
12-21-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by soxfan26
Shawn Wooten? Cliff Politte? Jay Payton? Frank Menechino?

Did anyone tell you the Nomar trade didn't happen?

Are you Wooten's agent or something? best shape of his career? Where are you getting this from? Wooten is the last thing we need, another slow right handed hitter.

Politte & Menechino = garbage

I wouldn't take Wooten, Politte, or Menechino if you paid me.

Payton won't be worth the asking price, and you have to wonder about a guy who 2 organizations have given up on.

Rich fielded a damn good team on a $56 million budget. Wooten, Politte, Payton, and Mennechino may be crap options for teams that are willing to spend, but the Sox need to think creatively.

Anyways, aside from Wooten, what about Brandon Inge or Ben Petrick behind the plate? Inge was supposed to be a big time talent before getting hurt in Houston and Petrick was supposed to be big time, too, in Colorado but has yet to pan out. I wouldn't mind either of those guys. Can't be worse than what we have now. Wasn't Inge on the market or is he gone now?

soxfan26
12-21-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
B) Troll? Probably too far, just got done with Law School finals so I'm angry at the world, and being a Chicago Sports fan doesn't help that mentality

I work at a Law School in Arlington, VA. How funny - my pointed response to your post was most likely due to my frustration from dealing with law school students stressed out at exam time! :smile: Then of course, we also have the Chicago sports frustration to boot.

It just sucks when our Christmas wish list for the Sox has to be limited to non-tendered and other bargain basement players. I have a few other ideas from the non-tendered list. I'll post my later on tonight so you can fire back at me! :o:

Tragg
12-21-2003, 06:21 PM
None of this explains why we're better off with nomar v maggs, the far superior hitter - for the want of $2 mill?

I remain in abject shock that williams would actually do this deal without a deal to send nomar all tied up.

RKMeibalane
12-21-2003, 07:39 PM
This is interesting. If the Sox can accquire Payton and Wooten, that gives them more options at the two or three positions where there are currently question marks.

I'm still hoping that the Sox can find some way to move Konerko. That would allow them to put Frank back at first base, and it would also free up the DH slot for Valentin, in the event that the Nomar trade does go through.

Contrary to popular believe, this is an exiciting time to be a Sox fan. Granted, management has done absolutely nothing this off-season that makes next season seem anymore promising than the past few years, but there are several possibilities currently in the works that could radically reshape the complexion of this team by the time SoxFest rolls around.

I'm going to sit tight and enjoy this. If nothing happens, it's a shame. If the Sox do make a deal, great! I'll be the first to cheer if KW can find something to make this team better.

soxfan26
12-21-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
C- Olivo/Alomar about 1 million /Wooten(750 K)
1B- Thomas 6 million / Wooten
2B - Harris/ Uribe / Valentin? 600 K to 5.5
- Menechino? 500 K
SS- Nomar - 12
3B - Crede 300 K
OF - Lee 6.5
OF/OF - Payton(2.5)/Rowand/ Borchard/ Reed

1B - Thomas - $6m
2B - Harris / Uribe - $600k
SS - Guillen (Carlos) - $2.5m
3B - Crede - $300k
LF - Lee - $6.5m
CF - Rowand / Borchard / Reed - $300k?
RF - Ordonez - $14m
C - Olivo / Alomar - $1m
DH - Wooten - $750k

Harris and Uribe to start the year is as good as having Jiminez last season. Pickup Guillen for Valentin. Pray that Borchard or Reed outplay Rowand in ST. Give Wooten a shot mostly because of his versatility, and he is definitely a better option than PK. Trade PK & Wright to LA for Mota.


Buerhle- 3.5
Loaiza -4.5
Ponson -3 years 18 million (maybe the first year at 4 or 5)
Redman - 3.5 per? Or am I way off?
Garland - 2.0


Buehrle - $3.5m
Loaiza - $4.5m
Ponson - $5.5m
Garland - $2.3m
Rogers? - $2.0m

Pen
Wunsch - $800k
Santiago? - $550k
Mota - $675k
Marte - $300k
Koch - $6.4m

Sign Ponson (5.5-6m?), Sign Rogers or equivalent for around $2m. I only use Santiago as an example because $550k will be his salary if he makes the team. Mota comes over in the PK deal, and hope for Koch to figure it out.

Grand Total - $58m and some change.

RichH55
12-21-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by JDP
Law School at U I?

That's the one...and undergrad too...never getting away


On a related note: If you know of any employment for lowly 1-Ls let me know