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View Full Version : Real baseball in 2004, northside or southside?


inta
12-19-2003, 06:11 AM
ok lets face it, the cubs are pulling what we've always been afraid they'd pull, they're acting like a real team.

so for those wanting to watch real baseball in 2004, will you watch the cubs?
the sox are going to be a bunch of 3rd place yawns, that's a given. and as much as i hate the cubs, what they're doing is what i expect a baseball team to do.

i'm still hoping for the redsox to win it all in 2004.
but i gotta give props to the northsiders. i mean, might as well admit it now before the next year drives us nuts.
baseball on the southside is dead.


i really REALLY hope i'm wrong.

Realist
12-19-2003, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by inta
ok lets face it, the cubs are pulling what we've always been afraid they'd pull, they're acting like a real team.

so for those wanting to watch real baseball in 2004, will you watch the cubs?
the sox are going to be a bunch of 3rd place yawns, that's a given. and as much as i hate the cubs, what they're doing is what i expect a baseball team to do.

i'm still hoping for the redsox to win it all in 2004.
but i gotta give props to the northsiders. i mean, might as well admit it now before the next year drives us nuts.
baseball on the southside is dead.


i really REALLY hope i'm wrong.

The friggin' Cubs have put together the best baseball team I've ever seen them have in my lifetime and I absolutely hate it. I will NOT watch the Cubs. I still think one of the main reasons a lot of us are so upset with this off season is because we can hear the Cubs' footsteps and we don't like it one bit.

Think about it. Are we going into 2004 with a worse team then we had going into 2000 (I know I for one didn't expect much outta 2000's team)? What sucks is how close the Cubs are and how bad we seem to be spinning our wheels or even going in reverse.

I happen to be a fan of Kenny Williams and I still hope he can pull a rabbit out of that old worn out hat that Reinsdorf appears to have handed him so I'm not going gonna just start *female dogging* and moaning just yet, but I'm fully prepared for the worst.

Irishlawyer
12-19-2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by inta
so for those wanting to watch real baseball in 2004, will you watch the cubs?

I hope for nothing but the worst for the Cubs. Zero wins, lots of injuries - carrer ending (but not life ending) for all those in that disgusting cubbie blue.

I'll watch the Braves on TBS to see baseball.

rdivaldi
12-19-2003, 10:59 AM
I can see the headline on the front page of the Cubune sports section tomorrow.

"White Sox fans declare Cubs only REAL team in city"

voodoochile
12-19-2003, 11:03 AM
I'm waiting for the flubbies to reverse the wording on those billboards the Sox bought a few years ago. "Real baseball, 8.1 miles north."

Unless something drastic happens for the Sox, it is going to be a long season.

Baby Fisk
12-19-2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by inta
so for those wanting to watch real baseball in 2004, will you watch the cubs?

i'm still hoping for the redsox to win it all in 2004.

baseball on the southside is dead.

i really REALLY hope i'm wrong.
My only desire for the Cubs is this: second place to Houston and finishing a delicious 1/2 game out of the wild card.

The carmines will never win it. They are cursed, remember? The fates just need to sort out whether it will be Schilling, Millar or some other goat who becomes the latest curse poster boy.

Baseball on the southside will never die. It can only be shackled down like Hannibal Lecter. Hey, even he broke free of his captors didn't he?

I hope you are wrong too. :cool:

CubKilla
12-19-2003, 11:09 AM
While on paper the Cubs look solid, we have history on our side. The Cubs haven't had back-to-back winning seasons since the 70's. With all of the "tradition" on the NorthSide, remember the biggest tradition of all..... losing. I fully expect history to continue based on the notion that the Cubs starting rotation (Wood, Zambrano, and Clement) will breakdown around June/July of '04 due to overuse in '03. ShamME will probably have to play all of '04 w/o steroids and corked bats due to the watchful eyes of baseball observers both in the stands and in the media. Patterson will still be on the mend. Alou went all of '03 w/o an injury. That probably won't happen again in '04. Grudzielanek had a career year. Those number won't happen again. Derek Lee either hits the cover off the ball or K's. I expect more K's than hits from D Lee..... although his glove will be a welcome addition with the butcher Ramirez playing 3B.

I fully expect '04 to fall right in line with Cubbie "tradition."

FanOf14
12-19-2003, 11:14 AM
I pray that there is another 'Bartman' to crawl out of the woodworks should the need appear...

Baby Fisk
12-19-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by CubKilla
While on paper the Cubs look solid, we have history on our side. The Cubs haven't had back-to-back winning seasons since the 70's. With all of the "tradition" on the NorthSide, remember the biggest tradition of all..... losing.

I fully expect '04 to fall right in line with Cubbie "tradition."
CubKilla you are so right! What's that Flubs formula again: 1 winning season, then 2 losing seasons? Or is it 1 then 3? Baseball is the only sport where history genuinely comes into play. Sadly, the Sox are on the losing end of history too... :(:

Seriously tho, as much as I want to see the Flubs Fall Flat and the BoSox Bomb, [getting emotional] I JUST WANT THE DAMN SOX TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES! IS THAT SO WRONG! :whiner:

Tekijawa
12-19-2003, 11:18 AM
Remember they only won 88 Games last year, Their Bullpen is better and I think that is about it. Houston added a 20 game winner and has a good chance at landing Clemmens, they have better bats than the cubs, although I'd love to see a couple career ending injuries happen on the North Side. I don't know if they will need that to happen to lose!

poorme
12-19-2003, 11:23 AM
The Tribune Company is more pathetic than Reinsdorf. They are within grasp of a championship, but won't spend the money to make sure it happens.

Grobber33
12-19-2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Irishlawyer
I hope for nothing but the worst for the Cubs. Zero wins, lots of injuries - carrer ending (but not life ending) for all those in that disgusting cubbie blue.

I'll watch the Braves on TBS to see baseball.

You and anyone(Cub Fans included)that wish for injuries deserve to be called out and I will do just that! Anyone who roots for a player to get hurt--even non life ending,is a JERK!! You probably cheered when Kerry Wood went down for the year in 1999. What did you think when Robin Ventura suffered that grusome injury in 1997? All Cub Fans I knew(and many hope the Sox lose everygame just like you wish the same for the Cubs)were sick to their stomachs over that!!
Wish all you want for the Cubs to go 0-162 if you like, but to hope guys get hurt is LACK OF CLASS!!!
BTW, Since you plan to watch the Braves on TBS so much,,how did they do in the NLDS this past season?(How about they became the first team to lose a Post Season Series to a Chicago Team since 1917!!) And that's the team you plan to watch? Good Luck!

Bobby Thigpen
12-19-2003, 11:26 AM
I would wholeheartedly agree that the Cubs' pitching staff is going to break down. Especially Wood and Zambrano. Combine the overuse last year, with the fact that Wood is constantly getting hurt and Zambrano's a head case and I think you will be able to draw a lot of parallels between the 2000-2001 Sox staff and the 2003-2004 Cubs staff. Their lineup is much improved, but Alou will get hurt sometime this year, Sammy is due for a huge letdown, Grudzilnhdklafh isn't going to put up the same numbers, and Ramirez is a nut case. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the Cubs end with a losing record and third in that division behind Houston and St. Louis.

But then again they may catch lightning in a bottle again this year and I will be forced to kill myself after they get closer to the World Series.

Tekijawa
12-19-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Bobby Thigpen
But then again they may catch lightning in a bottle again this year and I will be forced to kill myself after they get closer to the World Series.


You mean only three outs away they blow it this time? I think I'd actually prefer that to any other outcome given so far!

Hangar18
12-19-2003, 11:45 AM
I like when Grobber comes around....but Sorry Les, I Hate The Cubs heh heh. Now I dont wish anything life-threatening on
your little blue bears, but I cant help it, something makes me Smile and get Cheerful when I see something "bad" happen to them. Now..............is it because theyre the 'lovable' losers,
and growing up all these years, im accustomed to seeing this from them, and that in a sense, Everything is "normal" and "ok" in the world when some things remain the same such as the sun rising from the east, christmas coming on the 25th of Dec and the cubs losing? There is a Comfort in that for some reason....
I hope last year was a blip, and cub fans ANGERED the Goat with their Mockery of "this is our year" "the goat is dead" and his
Revenge on you guys for Next Year is Swift , Mighty and Heavy......

Grobber33
12-19-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I like when Grobber comes around....but Sorry Les, I Hate The Cubs heh heh. Now I dont wish anything life-threatening on
your little blue bears, but I cant help it, something makes me Smile and get Cheerful when I see something "bad" happen to them. Now..............is it because theyre the 'lovable' losers,
and growing up all these years, im accustomed to seeing this from them, and that in a sense, Everything is "normal" and "ok" in the world when some things remain the same such as the sun rising from the east, christmas coming on the 25th of Dec and the cubs losing? There is a Comfort in that for some reason....
I hope last year was a blip, and cub fans ANGERED the Goat with their Mockery of "this is our year" "the goat is dead" and his
Revenge on you guys for Next Year is Swift , Mighty and Heavy......

That's all WELL & GOOD(for you anyway),but hoping for injuries,especially THIS TIME OF YEAR?? Where's your Holiday spirit Hangar? SHAME,SHAME,SHAME!! I know you are a better person than that!!!
Did you enjoy seeing the entire Sox Pitching staff break down after 2000?(Baldwin,Sirotka,Simas,Howry,ect). I know I did'nt--I thought it sucked just like I felt awful when Ventura went down. I cant stand Albert Belle,but I truely felt bad when his back gave out and ended his career---even tho he's paid more in one day(STILL)than most of us get in a year!!

miker
12-19-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
You and anyone(Cub Fans included)that wish for injuries deserve to be called out and I will do just that! Anyone who roots for a player to get hurt--even non life ending,is a JERK!! You probably cheered when Kerry Wood went down for the year in 1999. What did you think when Robin Ventura suffered that grusome injury in 1997? All Cub Fans I knew(and many hope the Sox lose everygame just like you wish the same for the Cubs)were sick to their stomachs over that!!
Wish all you want for the Cubs to go 0-162 if you like, but to hope guys get hurt is LACK OF CLASS!!!

Wow, even Grobber's E-mails get higher in pitch when he gets upset...

Grobber33
12-19-2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by miker
Wow, even Grobber's E-mails get higher in pitch when he gets upset...

Well,at least you know I'm hear for you Miker!!!

miker
12-19-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Well,at least you know I'm hear for you Miker!!!

Count me as a Grobber fan. You won me over by having the integrity to post on a White Sox message board and for surviving those years with Steve and Garry.

habibharu
12-19-2003, 12:25 PM
VC Edit:

:hawk
"He Gone!"

Later, HH. If you want to play nice and not be an idiot, you can come back, otherwise, go post somewhere else...

miker
12-19-2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
hey grobber, shut the hell up and get off the board you freaking jagbag!

That wasn't nice...especially during the holidays...Cub fans and sports journos are people too!

Grobber33
12-19-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
hey grobber, shut the hell up and get off the board you freaking jagbag!

You wish!!!

Realist
12-19-2003, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by miker
That wasn't nice...especially during the holidays...Cub fans and sports journos are people too!

Are you kidding? Have you ever eaten with one of 'em? :D:

(My apologies to Mel Brooks and Zero Mostel)

voodoochile
12-19-2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
You wish!!!

Actually I think they will be happier not having to reply to you, Les. And, they won't...

habibharu
12-19-2003, 12:42 PM
:angry: hey sorry bout that grobber and voodoo. its just that i cant stand cub fans and that all is inactvity of the sox is pissin me off

Grobber33
12-19-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by habibharu
:angry: hey sorry bout that grobber and voodoo. its just that i cant stand cub fans and that all is inactvity of the sox is pissin me off

That' fine,, your forgiven--not that name calling is a crime---BUT...I'm simply not going to sit back and let people HOPE Players(and I dont care which team they play for)get hurt. UNACCEPTABLE, and as much as almost everyone on here hates the Cubs, I'll bet most agree with me on that point. That's because almost everyone on here are classy folks. Fun is fun,but let's get real or Santa may bypass you!!

Viva Magglio
12-19-2003, 12:49 PM
As much of a lack of preference I have for the Chicago National League Ballclub, I would never wish for them to lose due to player injuries. If I had my preference, I would not want to see Mark Prior go down with a torn rotator cuff but rather see a healthy Prior get shelled by Maggs (in a White Sox uniform, I hope). I'd rather see Sammy Sosa go down swinging in the 9th inning instead of seeing him on the 60-day DL.

Chisox353014
12-19-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by inta
ok lets face it, the cubs are pulling what we've always been afraid they'd pull, they're acting like a real team.

so for those wanting to watch real baseball in 2004, will you watch the cubs?
the sox are going to be a bunch of 3rd place yawns, that's a given. and as much as i hate the cubs, what they're doing is what i expect a baseball team to do.

i'm still hoping for the redsox to win it all in 2004.
but i gotta give props to the northsiders. i mean, might as well admit it now before the next year drives us nuts.
baseball on the southside is dead.


i really REALLY hope i'm wrong.

I'd rather have an alien rectal probe done on me than root for either the Flubs or Red Sox. Especially after last year.

When and if the Sox are officially done I'll do what I usually do; ignore the rest of the baseball season. If that means I'm doing something else from June on this year (which is about when we might be out of the picture in 2004 if things don't improve), than so be it. Frankly I don't like MLB enough to care what happens after the Sox are done. The Sox are baseball for me. And no way am I watching Chimp and Stoney under any circumstances.

Realist
12-19-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
That' fine,, your forgiven--not that name calling is a crime---BUT...I'm simply not going to sit back and let people HOPE Players(and I dont care which team they play for)get hurt. UNACCEPTABLE, and as much as almost everyone on here hates the Cubs, I'll bet most agree with me on that point. That's because almost everyone on here are classy folks. Fun is fun,but let's get real or Santa may bypass you!!

I suppose as a group we Sox fans are pretty cool as long as you're not coaching first base in a blue and white uniform 'cause then some sorta "dogs and mailmen" thing takes hold of us and... :D:

Iwritecode
12-19-2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Realist
I happen to be a fan of Kenny Williams and I still hope he can pull a rabbit out of that old worn out hat that Reinsdorf appears to have handed him so I'm not going gonna just start *female dogging* and moaning just yet, but I'm fully prepared for the worst.

I don't think bitching is a banned word...

Realist
12-19-2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I don't think bitching is a banned word...

I didn't think so, but I heard a rumour that Santa lurks on this board from time to time (ever notice how you never see him in "Cubbie blue") and I don't think I could handle another stocking of coal. I still have enough from last Christmas to heat the entire 10th Ward. :D:

Northside fan
12-19-2003, 01:06 PM
Nice post by Viva. I'm a die-hard Cubs fan and will admit I like it when the Sox lose. However, there would NEVER be an instance where I wished harm on any of their players. Those that do have to be morally bankrupt. I would never root for the Sox under any circumstance. If they are playing a NLC team, I would take my medicine and hope the OTHER team plays worse that day then the Sox. I appreciate the Sox fans who don't like the Cubs or their fans, that is what a RIVALRY is all about folks. Bears/ Packers, Cowboys/Redskins, Duke/UNC, Cubs/Sox. These teams and their fans are SUPPOSED to not like each other. As a Cubs fan, I love this rivalry.

voodoochile
12-19-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Nice post by Viva. I'm a die-hard Cubs fan and will admit I like it when the Sox lose. However, there would NEVER be an instance where I wished harm on any of their players. Those that do have to be morally bankrupt. I would never root for the Sox under any circumstance. If they are playing a NLC team, I would take my medicine and hope the OTHER team plays worse that day then the Sox. I appreciate the Sox fans who don't like the Cubs or their fans, that is what a RIVALRY is all about folks. Bears/ Packers, Cowboys/Redskins, Duke/UNC, Cubs/Sox. These teams and their fans are SUPPOSED to not like each other. As a Cubs fan, I love this rivalry.

Welcome aboard! :D:

Northside fan
12-19-2003, 01:29 PM
Thanks Voodoo!

hsnterprize
12-21-2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
That' fine,, your forgiven--not that name calling is a crime---BUT...I'm simply not going to sit back and let people HOPE Players(and I dont care which team they play for)get hurt. UNACCEPTABLE, and as much as almost everyone on here hates the Cubs, I'll bet most agree with me on that point. That's because almost everyone on here are classy folks. Fun is fun,but let's get real or Santa may bypass you!! Hey Grobber...long time, no post, pal.

I agree...as much as I can't stand the Cubs and rejoiced when they pulled the greatest choke job in playoff history this past fall, it's just not right to wish injury on anyone...regardless of what colors they wear. The Marlins beat the Cubs at their best, and no one bothered to give the Marlins any credit for their success...remember, they lost to the SF Giants 5 out of 6 times in the 2003 regular season before they met in their NLDS series. The FIsh showed a lot of heart against the defending National League Champs, and not too many people who had rooting interests for the Cubbies bothered to give that any mind. Personally, if there is such a thing as a "curse" to blame on the Cubs, blame it on the "Curse of the Overconfident, Cub-Loving Media" for constantly kissing Cubbie butt through their playoff run. I swear...I've never seen so much much fawning over a team in this town in my life from the local media. Forget the national coverage of this team...the local guys were simply nothing but a bunch of Cub-loving lemmings who pitched the "Cubbies are going to the World Series" line just like the fans did. I don't think there was this much fawning over a team when the Bulls had their run in the 90's, or even the 1985 Bears. In fairness, I was only in high school in '85, and I was in the military in the 90's, so I didn't keep a close eye on the local scene when the Bears and Bulls were winning. Not to mention, I know more about the press now than then, so I know what to look for in a news/sports story.

Now...I know there are a LOT of Cub lovers in the press, and it's fair to say they wanted their team to win. However, it's one thing to profile a player and his contribution to the team's success, and it's another thing for a newscast to not only devote 20 minutes of a 30 minute cast to "All things Cub", but to profile such stories as fans decorating their homes to the Cubs, to where Dusty Baker gets his toothpicks from.

Simply put...the Cub coverage this past fall was nothing schort of OVERKILL...and I laughed myself to pieces when the Cubs lost. The only reason why I wasn't screaming recklessly after the last out of game 7 was because my wife didn't want me to wake my kids up. She was even rooting for the Cubs...and she's allegedly a Sox fan. She told me, "I can't NOT root for a Chicago team to win." I told her, "You're supposed to be a Sox fan, right?" Oh well...some people have to learn the hard way.

Grobber...my inital "best wishes" to you still stand. I wish you and your family a festive holiday season, and may the Sox/Cubs rivalry in 2004 be just as intense as ever. Now we Sox fans really have a chip on our shoulders. GO SOX IN 2004!!!!!

hsnterprize
12-21-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Nice post by Viva. I'm a die-hard Cubs fan and will admit I like it when the Sox lose. However, there would NEVER be an instance where I wished harm on any of their players. Those that do have to be morally bankrupt. I would never root for the Sox under any circumstance. If they are playing a NLC team, I would take my medicine and hope the OTHER team plays worse that day then the Sox. I appreciate the Sox fans who don't like the Cubs or their fans, that is what a RIVALRY is all about folks. Bears/ Packers, Cowboys/Redskins, Duke/UNC, Cubs/Sox. These teams and their fans are SUPPOSED to not like each other. As a Cubs fan, I love this rivalry. Now here's something I can appreciate...a Cub fan who actually GETS IT!!!!! I really like it there is someone who unashamedly wears the Cubbie blue, and actually understands what it's like to cheer for baseball in this town.

There's been a lot of talk this past year, and even stronger in the post-season, that people can root for "both teams". Well, I can tell you that mentality does NOT exist on WSI. We've made it quite clear you're either all the way with one team or another, or go home. Even though you're a Cub fan, I'll repsect you for understanding that it's either one team or another in this town. There are just too many "causal fans" who really don't give a rip about the rivalry who'll jump on the bandwagon of either team when one show life and the other fades away into the night.

Hey...I'll tell you straight up...I can't stand your team. I think I can speak for all of us WSIers in saying that. I don't want any of your players to get hurt, but I'm simply not a Cub fan...never was...and never will be. As long as we can talk some serious baseball with you, you're welcome on this site anytime. Of course, you'll take heat for cheering for our strongest rivals, but at least you're bringing something more than the usual, "Go Cubs" drivel that's often screened out of this site.

hillbilly
12-21-2003, 04:50 PM
Now here's something I can appreciate...a Cub fan who actually GETS IT!!!!! I really like it there is someone who unashamedly wears the Cubbie blue, and actually understands what it's like to cheer for baseball in this town.

You are so true my friend....I went down to wrigley the day Bartman saved baseball as we know it and I was the only fan cheering against the cubs and nobody respected me down there. I think I had 3 or possibly 12 beers spilt on me just because i was rooting against the baby bears. My problem with baby bears fans down there was that they kept telling me if the sox were in the same situation they would root for the sox. BS...either you are one of the other...theres no middle ground when it comes to this rivalry. You are either a baby bear fan or a sox fan....you are not a chicago fan when it comes to baseball.

Northside fan
12-21-2003, 05:13 PM
Quote"Hey...I'll tell you straight up...I can't stand your team. I think I can speak for all of us WSIers in saying that. I don't want any of your players to get hurt, but I'm simply not a Cub fan...never was...and never will be. As long as we can talk some serious baseball with you, you're welcome on this site anytime.


As it should be my friend. I am a member at a Cubs site and we have plenty of Sox fans that come over to talk trash with us. That is what it is all about. If the Sox win the series before the Cubs, I'll be sick. Bring the heat, I can take it. I'll give it right back. I'm not sure how Grobber can say he would root for the Sox if they were in the playoffs and the Cubs were not. I could not and would not ever do it. The Cubs/Sox rivalry, IMO, is easily the most intense 6 games of the baseball year for me(minus playoff meaningful series in September). Sure, the Cards series are always intense, but we see them all the time and don't live in the same city with them.

hsnterprize
12-21-2003, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Quote"Hey...I'll tell you straight up...I can't stand your team. I think I can speak for all of us WSIers in saying that. I don't want any of your players to get hurt, but I'm simply not a Cub fan...never was...and never will be. As long as we can talk some serious baseball with you, you're welcome on this site anytime.


As it should be my friend. I am a member at a Cubs site and we have plenty of Sox fans that come over to talk trash with us. That is what it is all about. If the Sox win the series before the Cubs, I'll be sick. Bring the heat, I can take it. I'll give it right back. I'm not sure how Grobber can say he would root for the Sox if they were in the playoffs and the Cubs were not. I could not and would not ever do it. The Cubs/Sox rivalry, IMO, is easily the most intense 6 games of the baseball year for me(minus playoff meaningful series in September). Sure, the Cards series are always intense, but we see them all the time and don't live in the same city with them. Then with that precedent in mind, let's share a cold one and wish each other not only a festive holiday season, NorthsideFan, but also a hotter-than-Hades rivalry in 2004. My only stipulation is when you bring the heat, bring some substance to the conversation. You'll be respected a lot more here with me and other WSIers if you post with a legitimate brain (i.e., stats, legible conversation, etc.) than the troll-style stuff we've seen on the Sox and Cubs website message boards. I'd like to think you stand out from other Cub fans who try to troll on this site. Don't make me look bad in sticking up for you.

:gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: To 2004...and the World Champion Chicago White Sox!!!!!!! (Hey...we can dream, can't we!!!!!)

hsnterprize
12-21-2003, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by hillbilly
You are so true my friend....I went down to wrigley the day Bartman saved baseball as we know it and I was the only fan cheering against the cubs and nobody respected me down there. I think I had 3 or possibly 12 beers spilt on me just because i was rooting against the baby bears. My problem with baby bears fans down there was that they kept telling me if the sox were in the same situation they would root for the sox. BS...either you are one of the other...theres no middle ground when it comes to this rivalry. You are either a baby bear fan or a sox fan....you are not a chicago fan when it comes to baseball. I tell ya...I got so sick and tired of people from celebrities, to politicians, and others who said they were "supporting the Cubs" because they're a Chicago team. Bernie Mac really comes to mind. Remember he sang the 7th inning stretch at Wrigley during game 7, and added to the Cubbie Arrogance by doing 3 things. First, he wore Cubs colors to the ballpark...and he was decked with nothing but red and blue...not just a cap or jersey or jacket...the WHOLE WORKS. Second, he publicly denounced his fandom to the White Sox by saying the Sox could go to hell. Earlier in the day, he compared being a Sox fan to "having an ugly girl that gave good sex." All jokes aside, he basically destroyed any kinship to the White Sox that night. And we'll make sure he stays out when the Sox are in the playoffs, and he tries to get back to good graces with the Sox fans. And third, and most importantly, when he came to the "let's root, root, root for the Cubbies" line of the song, he sang, "let's root, root, for the CHAMPS...CHAMPS!!!". People can interpret that as they wish, but in my honest opinion, he was going on with the hype that the Cubs were going to win. That made their loss even that much more sweeter.

It was only after the game 7 loss, and the Wrigleyville faithful were dejectedly heading home, that sportscasters and others were finally admitting what I and others who weren't part of the hype knew all along...the Cubs obsession was too much. Many reporters became fans instead of objectively reporting what was going on. They got swept up on the Cubbie love boat, and sank like the Titanic. Much to my and other Sox fans' pleasure. It's a day that will live in Sox fan's lore forever. So what if it didn't benefit the Sox directly. It was still good to see the Cubs go down, and in such a dramatic way.

doublem23
12-21-2003, 06:16 PM
Aw, the Cubs are going to suck.

BTW, Bernie Mac is a turncoat bastard. The deepest pits of hell are reserved for his ilk.

Northside fan
12-21-2003, 10:57 PM
hsnterprize,
I'll crack open a cold one with ya and indeed, happy holidays to all. I suspect that this years rivalry with the Sox will be the most intense one we have seen. I understand how hard it was for Sox fans to see the Cubs come within 5 outs of the series. I know how happy you all were when the Cubs coughed it up. So, yes, this year should be something else. Lets face it, as of right now, the Cubs are a better team then the Sox. I think even the most die-hard Sox fan can admit that. Vegas has the Cubs as the favorites in the NL right now to make it to the series. Only the Red Sox have better odds to win the series as it stands right now. As for B-mac, you can keep him. He is two faced when it comes to his teams and should stick to his acting. My fellow Cubs fans friends and I are sick of the 7th inning stretch. It is now just a sad embarrassment and I truly hate it. Ozzie? Ditka? Bruce frikin Jenner? Please, I have seen enough. Lastly, I will always back up a argument with fact. It is not really an argument otherwise. Here is to a great 2004 season. Cubs/Sox in the series? Naaa, I could not take that. I am having a hard enough time trying to cope with losing to the Marlins. Should the Sox beat the Cubs in the series, I would need a year's supply of Kettle one Vodka and even that might not be enough.

MRKARNO
12-22-2003, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
hsnterprize,
I'll crack open a cold one with ya and indeed, Happy Holidays to all. I suspect that this years rivalry with be the most intense one we have seen. I understand how hard it was for Sox fans to see the Cubs come within 5 outs of the series. I know how happy you all were when the Cubs coughed it up. So, yes, this year should be something else. Lets face it, as of right now, the Cubs are a better team then the Sox. I think even the most die-hard Sox fan can admit that. Vegas has the Cubs as the favorites in the NL right now to make it to the series. Only the Red Sox have better odds to win the series as it stands right now. As for B-mac, you can keep him. He is two faced when it comes to his teams and should stick to his acting. My fellow Cubs fans friends and I are sick of the 7th inning stretch. It is now just a sad embarrassment and I truly hate it. Ozzie? Ditka? Bruce frikin Jenner? Please, I have seen enough. Lastly, I will always back up a argument with fact. It is not really an argument otherwise. Here is to a great 2004 season. Cubs/Sox in the series? Naaa, I could not take that. I am having a hard enough time trying to cope with losing to the Marlins. Should the Sox beat the Cubs in the series, I would need a year's supply of Kettle one Vodka and even that might not be enough.

Yes the cubs should be (and I say "should be" because you never know with Chicago baseball) better than the sox. But the problem with those Vegas odds is that there are a ton of Bosox and Cubs fans making bets that they will win the series, so they have to have odds favorable to the casino in case they do make the series. As far as I'm concerned, the Phillies have just as good a chance as the Cubs to make the series and there's no dominant team in the NL.

But horrible luck with your Cubs this year. I hope they go 0-162 and lose 20-0 every game.

But thank you for

A) Understanding that this rivalry is really a rivalry and not just an issue of two teams in one town (see Dodgers and Angels)

B) Disliking that stupid 7th inning stretch

CubKilla
12-22-2003, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
BTW, Bernie Mac is a turncoat bastard. The deepest pits of hell are reserved for his ilk.

At least Jack Buck didn't sell-out and maintained face when the Cubs asked him to sing the 7th Inning Stretch.

Meixner007
12-22-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by inta
ok lets face it, the cubs are pulling what we've always been afraid they'd pull, they're acting like a real team.

so for those wanting to watch real baseball in 2004, will you watch the cubs?
the sox are going to be a bunch of 3rd place yawns, that's a given. and as much as i hate the cubs, what they're doing is what i expect a baseball team to do.

i'm still hoping for the redsox to win it all in 2004.
but i gotta give props to the northsiders. i mean, might as well admit it now before the next year drives us nuts.
baseball on the southside is dead.


i really REALLY hope i'm wrong.

Yeah i'll watch the cubs, and root for the team they're playing. To say the sox will be in third place is not only ignorant...well it's just that. They would have to be doing worse than a minnesota team that's falling apart, and an overachieving KC team. I'm not saying that we should roll in this division, but we shoudl consider it a gift that we reside in the AL central.

As for you rooting for the carmines...that's almost as bad. If they win they'll hopefully shut up, but they're basically the AL version of the cubs ( with 1000000000000 times more knowledge).

The fact that you have written the white sox off in DECEMBER bothers me. Why should we even play the season? Let's just give teh red sox teh trophy and the cubs the NL trophy and start talking about 2005.

inta
12-22-2003, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007

The fact that you have written the white sox off in DECEMBER bothers me. Why should we even play the season? Let's just give teh red sox teh trophy and the cubs the NL trophy and start talking about 2005.

lol, what do you expect?
the sox have done nothing but turned weaker.
boston is out yankee-ing the yankees. and do we really think the current sox team we have can make it through the west coast road trips when they couldnt pull it off with better teams the past 2 years?

KW needs to pull multiple miracles to make the sox a competitor in 2004, and unfortunately i think he ran out of miracles last summer.

we still got awhile till opening day, but i'm not expecting much.

basilesox
12-22-2003, 02:04 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
As much of a lack of preference I have for the Chicago National League Ballclub, I would never wish for them to lose due to player injuries. If I had my preference, I would not want to see Mark Prior go down with a torn rotator cuff but rather see a healthy Prior get shelled by Maggs (in a White Sox uniform, I hope). I'd rather see Sammy Sosa go down swinging in the 9th inning instead of seeing him on the 60-day DL.

Or twice in one game with the bases loaded...that was magical.....

Meixner007
12-22-2003, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by inta
lol, what do you expect?
the sox have done nothing but turned weaker.
boston is out yankee-ing the yankees. and do we really think the current sox team we have can make it through the west coast road trips when they couldnt pull it off with better teams the past 2 years?

KW needs to pull multiple miracles to make the sox a competitor in 2004, and unfortunately i think he ran out of miracles last summer.

we still got awhile till opening day, but i'm not expecting much.

All i'm saying is that we don't play in the AL east...we play in the AL central...the sooner people realize this, the better off we'll be. I'm a firm believe that all you need is a ticket to the playoffs...what happens then is anybodys guess, especially if you are "gelling" at the end of the season (e.g. 2002, 2003)

StockdaleForVeep
12-22-2003, 03:47 AM
Ok, what have the cubs done to warrant saying they are a real team? Theyve added bullpen fodder and backup utility players. Thats like calling the sox a genius baseball team for making key off season acquisitions like lenny harris, garth brooks(he did try out for san diego) and hideki irabu.(weight wise he would make up for colon) Would these players help? Maybe if we need a scapegoat for some sox PR nightmare but they wont be influential in winning a division

They are doin the exact same thing as when they won the wildcard, keeping the team the same, which is a no no for any sports team. Every sports team that was sucessful the year before makes alot of changes\improvements. Look at the yankees, only 2 guys from their last world series are on that team(posada and jeter) and they are constant playoff contenders. They are gunna slump back into their normal crevice. The overworked staff will crumble. Maybe for a bartman ball desctruction idea, they insert fragments of the ball into the next cub season ending injury. Docs leave so much inside after surgeries anyhow

People are talkin about the major spendin\additions for baltimore, how much u wanna bet they will be same if not a worse team. People said the mets would dominate with their additions and havin the second largest payroll and they were a dead last team

inta
12-22-2003, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Ok, what have the cubs done to warrant saying they are a real team? Theyve added bullpen fodder and backup utility players.

you really think that's all they've done?
you gotta be freakin kidding me..

hose
12-22-2003, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
You and anyone(Cub Fans included)that wish for injuries deserve to be called out and I will do just that! Anyone who roots for a player to get hurt--even non life ending,is a JERK!! You probably cheered when Kerry Wood went down for the year in 1999. What did you think when Robin Ventura suffered that grusome injury in 1997? All Cub Fans I knew(and many hope the Sox lose everygame just like you wish the same for the Cubs)were sick to their stomachs over that!!
Wish all you want for the Cubs to go 0-162 if you like, but to hope guys get hurt is LACK OF CLASS!!!
BTW, Since you plan to watch the Braves on TBS so much,,how did they do in the NLDS this past season?(How about they became the first team to lose a Post Season Series to a Chicago Team since 1917!!) And that's the team you plan to watch? Good Luck!


Hey Grobber explain Cub fans comments on Bartman.

LACK OF CLASS ? JERKS?

SSN721
12-22-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Ok, what have the cubs done to warrant saying they are a real team? Theyve added bullpen fodder and backup utility players.


I think if you look at the offseason acquisitons they have made and the guys that they are in the running to pick up and sign that is a rather ridiculous statement to make.

Grobber33
12-22-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by hose
Hey Grobber explain Cub fans comments on Bartman.

LACK OF CLASS ? JERKS?

You're changing the subject! Wishing INJURY on someone had nothing to do with the Bartman stuff. Ask people in Baltimore what they still think today about Jeffery Meier 7 years later. You want to call out Cub Fans for being pissed at Bartman? Go ahead, he and others have to learn to keep their hands to themselves,that said,he sould not be threatened or have beer thrown on him.
BTW, just try and deny with a straight face that if someone had done that to Carlos Lee in Comiskey during a similar situation(possisble ALCS Clincher?),you and everyone here(not in denial)know full well that Sox Fans would want to hang whomever did that,from a light pole over the Canal Port Curve of the Dan Ryan X-Way during Rush Hour! It happened to the Cubs so you're all having a jolly time--hey go for it,you have the right!
One thing about Bartman, any perks he's been offered,he has donated to charity,and he remains a Cub Fan who has turned down overtures to become a Marlin or Sox Fan(and many Sox Fans wanted the Club to invite him to throw out the first ball opening day at 'Comiskey'-but he would'nt do it nor would Sox Management stoop to that).

All that off my chest, I hope everyone has a great Holiday!

hose
12-22-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
You're changing the subject! Wishing INJURY on someone had nothing to do with the Bartman stuff. Ask people in Baltimore what they still think today about Jeffery Meier 7 years later. You want to call out Cub Fans for being pissed at Bartman? Go ahead, he and others have to learn to keep their hands to themselves,that said,he sould not be threatened or have beer thrown on him.
BTW, just try and deny with a straight face that if someone had done that to Carlos Lee in Comiskey during a similar situation(possisble ALCS Clincher?),you and everyone here(not in denial)know full well that Sox Fans would want to hang whomever did that,from a light pole over the Canal Port Curve of the Dan Ryan X-Way during Rush Hour! It happened to the Cubs so you're all having a jolly time--hey go for it,you have the right!
One thing about Bartman, any perks he's been offered,he has donated to charity,and he remains a Cub Fan who has turned down overtures to become a Marlin or Sox Fan(and many Sox Fans wanted the Club to invite him to throw out the first ball opening day at 'Comiskey'-but he would'nt do it nor would Sox Management stoop to that).

All that off my chest, I hope everyone has a great Holiday!


Grobber the fact is that Cub fans DID threat Bartman bodily harm at Wrigley, in message boards, and even at his place of work.

LACK OF CLASS ? JERKS?

You call out a WSI member for basically saying the same as the fans at a Bear game , "Kill the quarterback"

Saying it is one thing, meaning it is another. I'm sure the police escorting Bartman out of his seats were there for his protection. The same as the police that were guarding his house 24 hours around the clock.

Les I'm a couple days late, but happy Hanukkah .

maurice
12-22-2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Wishing INJURY on someone had nothing to do with the Bartman stuff.

:?:

You're denying that numerous cub fans wished injury on Bartman? Many threatened and assaulted him on broadcast television the day of the incident, requiring cub security to disguise him and escort him from the stadium. Heck, even Skippy Jacobson said on the air that he wished physical harm would befall Mr. Bartman. It was reported that the number of threats required Bartman to disconnect his home phone, avoid work, and hide out in the weeks following the incident. Various mainstream media sources quoted cub fans as saying:

"Somebody should break his g--d--- arms."
"They should kill him."
"They were going to beat the hell out of the guy. He was going to die."
Bartman should be "flogged."
Bartman should be "strung up and beaten like a pinata."
Bartman should "be in church all day today praying that the Cubs win [Game 7], because if they don't, he knows he will be in the obitiaries tomarrow! [sic]"

StillMissOzzie
12-22-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33


You and anyone(Cub Fans included)that wish for injuries deserve to be called out and I will do just that! Anyone who roots for a player to get hurt--even non life ending,is a JERK!!

Grobber, I'll grant you that hoping for player injury is pretty low. Distinguishing between desired injuries to players and ACTUAL threats of bodily harm to Bartman are treading a thinner line. I won't deny that if happened to Carlos Lee things would be any different, but that ain't the way it happened.

For my part, I hope the Scrubs are subjected to these kinds of injuries - repeated shelling by the White Sox, terminal wildness for Kerry Wood, swingandamissitis for cork-boy Sosa, more CHOKING, and another year of BROKEN HEARTS for Scrub fans!

SMO
:gulp:

PaulDrake
12-22-2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
As much of a lack of preference I have for the Chicago National League Ballclub, I would never wish for them to lose due to player injuries. If I had my preference, I would not want to see Mark Prior go down with a torn rotator cuff but rather see a healthy Prior get shelled by Maggs (in a White Sox uniform, I hope). I'd rather see Sammy Sosa go down swinging in the 9th inning instead of seeing him on the 60-day DL. I wholeheartedly agree. The Cubs-Marlins series last fall accelerated my hair loss. What a relief after game 7. I'm a fan. I love the game of baseball and the White Sox are my team. Beating the Cubs is great. Losing to them is awful. I would never wish ill on any opposing player or team. I just want them to lose when they play my team. I've had some great experiences with fan of different teams and have generally been treated well when I've gone to see the Sox play on the road. I'm old as posters go here, grew up in the go go era. There was no interleague play then but there was a yearly exhibition game that we all looked forward to. The rivalry was just as intense as today, but much more good natured and less mean spirited. By the way I give Grobber credit for coming here and conducting himself in a very classy manner. It's a credit to him and the site that he can come here and banter back and forth with the "enemy".

Grobber33
12-22-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
I wholeheartedly agree. The Cubs-Marlins series last fall accelerated my hair loss. What a relief after game 7. I'm a fan. I love the game of baseball and the White Sox are my team. Beating the Cubs is great. Losing to them is awful. I would never wish ill on any opposing player or team. I just want them to lose when they play my team. I've had some great experiences with fan of different teams and have generally been treated well when I've gone to see the Sox play on the road. I'm old as posters go here, grew up in the go go era. There was no interleague play then but there was a yearly exhibition game that we all looked forward to. The rivalry was just as intense as today, but much more good natured and less mean spirited. By the way I give Grobber credit for coming here and conducting himself in a very classy manner. It's a credit to him and the site that he can come here and banter back and forth with the "enemy".

I appriciate you Paul and evryone else here, and BTW you guys are not my ENEMY by any stretch(I know what you meant however). You are right about the old 'Boys Benefit' games being more fun--in fact the Players enjoyed those games but they were stopped in 1973(by the Sox since--and this was what they said,,"we're a contender now" which was strange since the Sox contended most years back then with exceptions to years like 68-71). The Crosstown Classic from 85 thru 94,,the Players hated to play and b---ched and moaned about all the time(both teams).
Yes,I want the Cubs to beat the Sox(98 was obviously a great year for Northsiders)BUT....I want to beat them at their best,altho in 2001,the Sox took 4 of 6 with many of their key Players out while the Cubs were pretty much full strength and having a better overall year--so you never know. As a Bear Fan,I want to beat the Pack badly,but NEVER would want Brett Favre hurt. And my Prayers go out to Brett and his Family on his Dad's sudden passing. Having talked to him MANY times, I can tell you(looking past that darned 'G' on his helmet), he's a really good,classy person. As many of you here know, as a Cub Fan, there is no bigger Frank Thomas Fan than me, I beleive I have defended him for the most part thruout his stay with the Sox and feel lucky to have covered his entire career,and to know he's a better person than many give him credit for. I'll enjoy somewhere down the road covering his HOF induction as I did that of Carlton Fisk.

StockdaleForVeep
12-22-2003, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by SSN721
I think if you look at the offseason acquisitons they have made and the guys that they are in the running to pick up and sign that is a rather ridiculous statement to make.


i didnt say running i say got, they got Hawkins, a decent set up man, but setup men do not make your team a stud team, i dont see massive bid wars for a shigetoshi hasegawa or during his "prime" jeff zimmerman.

Who else they gotten, michael barrett? A career 253 hitter who is injury plagued? They were better off keepin a veteran like miller.

Or oo,hollandsworth and merker, hollandsworth, another utility player who will be lucky to start unless injuries occur.

Exactly what big off season acquisitions do you see with these guys and others i havent mentioned because they have no impact. All they did was add more bench warmers, and this isnt pee wee baseball where everyone gets to bat in a game

Northside fan
12-23-2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
i didnt say running i say got, they got Hawkins, a decent set up man, but setup men do not make your team a stud team, i dont see massive bid wars for a shigetoshi hasegawa or during his "prime" jeff zimmerman.

Who else they gotten, michael barrett? A career 253 hitter who is injury plagued? They were better off keepin a veteran like miller.

Or oo,hollandsworth and merker, hollandsworth, another utility player who will be lucky to start unless injuries occur.

Exactly what big off season acquisitions do you see with these guys and others i havent mentioned because they have no impact. All they did was add more bench warmers, and this isnt pee wee baseball where everyone gets to bat in a game

Interesting, you make no mention of a certain gold glove 1st baseman who will hit 30 homeruns, drive in 100 and steal 15-20 bases.

StockdaleForVeep
12-23-2003, 01:51 AM
Northside, my appologies i will give u derek lee, but the way people talk, they act like hendry is a genius and making all these wonderful picks

I will bet good money that come start of season and midway thru the avg scrub fan wont even know their name

fave moment in a bar involvin a scrub fan -"Whos that asian playing first base?"

Grobber33
12-23-2003, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by StockdaleForVeep
Northside, my appologies i will give u derek lee, but the way people talk, they act like hendry is a genius and making all these wonderful picks

I will bet good money that come start of season and midway thru the avg scrub fan wont even know their name

fave moment in a bar involvin a scrub fan -"Whos that asian playing first base?"

Wish the Blackhawks(aka Lackhawks)had OGLETHORPE! Mabey then they's have 2 wins in the past 5 weeks instead of 1.

Northside fan
12-23-2003, 10:35 AM
Stockdale,
As a Cubs fan, I don't feel Hendry is a genius. But I do feel he UNDERSTANDS the game of baseball more then any GM we have had since Dallas Green. The Derrek Lee trade was a beauty. Hee-Sop will be a good player but Lee is a very good player already and is only 28. Lee hasn't even hit his prime yet. Hendry is a shark, if he smells blood, he attacks. That said, he is only in his second year and he still has plenty to learn. Kenny Williams is just a dope, period! The infamous Pirate trade and the Koch deal alone should have landed him on the unemployment line. When you have other GM's calling you an idiot, I think that basically sums it right up.

DrCrawdad
12-23-2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by hsnterprize
Hey Grobber...long time, no post, pal.

I agree...as much as I can't stand the Cubs and rejoiced when they pulled the greatest choke job in playoff history this past fall, it's just not right to wish injury on anyone...regardless of what colors they wear. The Marlins beat the Cubs at their best, and no one bothered to give the Marlins any credit for their success...remember, they lost to the SF Giants 5 out of 6 times in the 2003 regular season before they met in their NLDS series. The FIsh showed a lot of heart against the defending National League Champs, and not too many people who had rooting interests for the Cubbies bothered to give that any mind. Personally, if there is such a thing as a "curse" to blame on the Cubs, blame it on the "Curse of the Overconfident, Cub-Loving Media" for constantly kissing Cubbie butt through their playoff run. I swear...I've never seen so much much fawning over a team in this town in my life from the local media. Forget the national coverage of this team...the local guys were simply nothing but a bunch of Cub-loving lemmings who pitched the "Cubbies are going to the World Series" line just like the fans did. I don't think there was this much fawning over a team when the Bulls had their run in the 90's, or even the 1985 Bears. In fairness, I was only in high school in '85, and I was in the military in the 90's, so I didn't keep a close eye on the local scene when the Bears and Bulls were winning. Not to mention, I know more about the press now than then, so I know what to look for in a news/sports story.

Now...I know there are a LOT of Cub lovers in the press, and it's fair to say they wanted their team to win. However, it's one thing to profile a player and his contribution to the team's success, and it's another thing for a newscast to not only devote 20 minutes of a 30 minute cast to "All things Cub", but to profile such stories as fans decorating their homes to the Cubs, to where Dusty Baker gets his toothpicks from.

Simply put...the Cub coverage this past fall was nothing schort of OVERKILL...and I laughed myself to pieces when the Cubs lost. The only reason why I wasn't screaming recklessly after the last out of game 7 was because my wife didn't want me to wake my kids up. She was even rooting for the Cubs...and she's allegedly a Sox fan. She told me, "I can't NOT root for a Chicago team to win." I told her, "You're supposed to be a Sox fan, right?" Oh well...some people have to learn the hard way.

Grobber...my inital "best wishes" to you still stand. I wish you and your family a festive holiday season, and may the Sox/Cubs rivalry in 2004 be just as intense as ever. Now we Sox fans really have a chip on our shoulders. GO SOX IN 2004!!!!!

http://abclocal.go.com/images/wls_bio_markgiangreco.jpg
"Remember when after the Cubs lost game 7
of the NLCS and I apologized for being a Cubune lackey
(even though I don't work for Cubune Inc.)? Also you
may not have heard but HUGE interviewed me on Grand
Rapids radio and I said that if the Sox were in the
ALDS-ALCS the Sox would NOT fill the stadium."
.
.
.
.

DrCrawdad
12-23-2003, 10:46 AM
http://images.radcity.net/5149/26150.jpg

Then there is Roe Cohn who routinely says that The Cell is unsafe and that you may get shot while sitting in the stands.

Northside fan
12-23-2003, 11:03 AM
DrCrawdad,
The media is not the Sox problem. The problem with the Sox is your cheap owner who has had one media relations blunder after the other. I'm sorry, but if I am COMPETING with a RIVAL in the same town, the last thing I am going to say(true or not)is that this is a Cubs town and it always will be. ASSANINE!! Secondly, he blew up the 97 Sox and declared we have no chance at catching the Indians. The 03 Cubs and 97 Sox were very similar in talent. The Cubs did not blow their team up, Hendry went out and added the pieces to bring a division crown to the North side. If you have a owner who basically could give a rats butt about the team, how do you expect the media to re-act?

DrCrawdad
12-23-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
DrCrawdad,
The media is not the Sox problem. The problem with the Sox is your cheap owner who has had one media relations blunder after the other. I'm sorry, but if I am COMPETING with a RIVAL in the same town, the last thing I am going to say(true or not)is that this is a Cubs town and it always will be. ASSANINE!! Secondly, he blew up the 97 Sox and declared we have no chance at catching the Indians. The 03 Cubs and 97 Sox were very similar in talent. The Cubs did not blow their team up, Hendry went out and added the pieces to bring a division crown to the North side. If you have a owner who basically could give a rats butt about the team, how do you expect the media to re-act?

IMHO the media IS part of the problem. The media adds fuel and piles on the Sox, Sox fans and the Southside.

As far as the Reinsdorf group being "cheap" the same could be said about the Cubs. While the Cubs have added to their payroll, they still are as cheap and probably more cheap than the Reinsdorf group. The Cubs have been spending a bit more liberally this year but as I'm sure you know they've regularly been in the middle of the pack as far as salaries in spite of the fact that they probably rake in more money than every team in baseball with the possible exception of the Yankees. Of course we don't know for sure since all baseball owners cook their books. But in my mind the Cubs have taken the lead in this. (Their scalping operation. Their deal with WGN where WGN pays the Sox MORE than the Cubs.)

I'll give the Cubune credit though for being the absolute best at the art of media spin. Of course that is easier for the Cubune seeing that they own the biggest local newspaper, TV station and radio.

Northside fan
12-23-2003, 12:09 PM
"As far as the Reinsdorf group being "cheap" the same could be said about the Cubs. While the Cubs have added to their payroll, they still are as cheap and probably more cheap than the Reinsdorf group".

The Cubs problem is that they are owned by a corporation, which, in turn, means that they must answer to investors who really don't give a hoot about the Cubs. I would love nothing more then to see the Trib sell the team to a mega millionare Cubs fan who ONLY cared about winning a World Series. The Trib wants to win, it's just not their top priority.

DrCrawdad
12-23-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
The Cubs problem is that they are owned by a corporation, which, in turn, means that they must answer to investors who really don't give a hoot about the Cubs. I would love nothing more then to see the Trib sell the team to a mega millionare Cubs fan who ONLY cared about winning a World Series. The Trib wants to win, it's just not their top priority.

The same could be said about the Sox:

The White Sox are not solely owned by Reinsdorf. There are a group of investors, which means that they must answer to investors who may or may not give a hoot about the White Sox. Many Sox fans would love nothing more then to see the Reinsdorf group sell the Sox to a mega-millionaire Sox fan who ONLY cared about winning a World Series. The Reinsdorf group wants to win, it's just not their top priority.

Northside fan
12-23-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
The same could be said about the Sox:

The White Sox are not solely owned by Reinsdorf. There are a group of investors, which means that they must answer to investors who may or may not give a hoot about the White Sox. Many Sox fans would love nothing more then to see the Reinsdorf group sell the Sox to a mega-millionaire Sox fan who ONLY cared about winning a World Series. The Reinsdorf group wants to win, it's just not their top priority.

Yes, but Reinsdorf is the FINAL decision maker when it comes to the Reinsdorf group. The Cubs, on the other hand, are OWNED by the Tribune and the final say so is given by some CEO who really does not care about baseball. Reinsdorf has called out Sox fans for not showing up and THATS the REASON he can't put a championship caliber team on the field. That statement alone tells you he is in charge and COULD put a championship team on the field. Blame the fans? I think not.

maurice
12-23-2003, 12:36 PM
JR is a clod, particularly from a PR / media relations standpoint, and has caused untold damage to his team's popularity. However, nothing he has done justifies certain members of the media LYING about the Sox, or covering insignificant cub events as if they were Game 7 of the WS, while devoting very little coverage to a Sox team with a similar or better record. The cubs certainly deserved extra coverage for their newsworthy 2003 season, but many of these same cubbie-loving media members subsequently admitted that they over-hyped the cubs at the expense of the Sox.

Some quick examples of media lies, off the top of my head:
- Dr. Crawdad's Cohn example (Bridgeport is actually SAFER than Lake View)
- CLTV's talking head reporting that you can take the el to Wrigley, but you HAVE to drive to the Cell
- Sudberry reporting that the Sox had a "disappointing" crowd for a weekday game against the twinkies, though they drew more fans than the cubs drew for Game 1 of the cards series
- Anybody claiming that a "Sox fan" attacked an ump at the Cell
- Older newspaper columns claiming that Frank Thomas and Mark Grace are comparable players, or even that Thomas is worse than Grace

DrCrawdad
12-23-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by maurice
JR is a clod, particularly from a PR / media relations standpoint, and has caused untold damage to his team's popularity. However, nothing he has done justifies certain members of the media LYING about the Sox, or covering insignificant cub events as if they were Game 7 of the WS, while devoting very little coverage to a Sox team with a similar or better record. The cubs certainly deserved extra coverage for their newsworthy 2003 season, but many of these same cubbie-loving media members subsequently admitted that they over-hyped the cubs at the expense of the Sox.

Some quick examples of media lies, off the top of my head:
- Dr. Crawdad's Cohn example (Bridgeport is actually SAFER than Lake View)
- CLTV's talking head reporting that you can take the el to Wrigley, but you HAVE to drive to the Cell
- Sudberry reporting that the Sox had a "disappointing" crowd for a weekday game against the twinkies, though they drew more fans than the cubs drew for Game 1 of the cards series
- Anybody claiming that a "Sox fan" attacked an ump at the Cell
- Older newspaper columns claiming that Frank Thomas and Mark Grace are comparable players, or even that Thomas is worse than Grace

- The Cubune blaming Sox fans on the frontpage of the Sports section when a small section of their precious ivy died. The proof? Cub fans wouldn't do it, Sox fans would.

- Cubune architect critic comparing the changes to The Cell to The Shrine. Complaining about the number of obstructed view seats at The Cell w/o mentioning the number of obstructed view seats at The Shrine.

jabrch
12-23-2003, 01:29 PM
Les, Meier was a YANKEE fan. That's different. Of course Balt fans hate him. Bartman, supposedly a good Cubs fan, had to be escorted to other seats personally by Mark McGwire and Cubs security to avoid him getting hurt by Cubs fans. He has to have police AT HIS HOME because of Cubs fans.

Now I agree it is classless and terrrible to ever wish injury on any player. But you gotta be straight on this one. The fans in LF that day were classless jerks also. And speaking of classless jerks, how is Ben Christensen doing? There is a guy who epitomizes a classless jerk.


Originally posted by Grobber33
You're changing the subject! Wishing INJURY on someone had nothing to do with the Bartman stuff. Ask people in Baltimore what they still think today about Jeffery Meier 7 years later. You want to call out Cub Fans for being pissed at Bartman? Go ahead, he and others have to learn to keep their hands to themselves,that said,he sould not be threatened or have beer thrown on him.
BTW, just try and deny with a straight face that if someone had done that to Carlos Lee in Comiskey during a similar situation(possisble ALCS Clincher?),you and everyone here(not in denial)know full well that Sox Fans would want to hang whomever did that,from a light pole over the Canal Port Curve of the Dan Ryan X-Way during Rush Hour! It happened to the Cubs so you're all having a jolly time--hey go for it,you have the right!
One thing about Bartman, any perks he's been offered,he has donated to charity,and he remains a Cub Fan who has turned down overtures to become a Marlin or Sox Fan(and many Sox Fans wanted the Club to invite him to throw out the first ball opening day at 'Comiskey'-but he would'nt do it nor would Sox Management stoop to that).

All that off my chest, I hope everyone has a great Holiday!

jabrch
12-23-2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Chisox353014
I'd rather have an alien rectal probe done on me than root for either the Flubs or Red Sox. Especially after last year.

Wow...While I certainly wouldn't like to cheer for the Cubs, or Boston for that matter, the alien rectal probe thing doesn't sound comfortable.

Put me on record - I'd go blue (preferably Red Sox Blue, but even Cubs Blue) before volunteering for Alient Rectal Probes.

inta
12-23-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
- Cubune architect critic comparing the changes to The Cell to The Shrine. Complaining about the number of obstructed view seats at The Cell w/o mentioning the number of obstructed view seats at The Shrine.

okay this is just silly. the stadiums were built in entirely diff't periods. the technological means exist today to have no obstructed view seats.
sox could've gone with a cantilivered roof but as usual were cheapskates.

lets not give the cub fans any easy to win arguments here.

StockdaleForVeep
12-23-2003, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Grobber33
Wish the Blackhawks(aka Lackhawks)had OGLETHORPE! Mabey then they's have 2 wins in the past 5 weeks instead of 1.


oh id even take a pansy like ned braden, atleast he could score, but i wouldnt condone his stripping on the ice. It it crazy for me to say i still have faith in this season?

Hangar18
12-23-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Stockdale,
As a Cubs fan, I don't feel Hendry is a genius. But I do feel he UNDERSTANDS the game of baseball more then any GM we have had since Dallas Green. The Derrek Lee trade was a beauty. Hee-Sop will be a good player but Lee is a very good player already and is only 28. Lee hasn't even hit his prime yet. Hendry is a shark, if he smells blood, he attacks. That said, he is only in his second year and he still has plenty to learn. Kenny Williams is just a dope, period! The infamous Pirate trade and the Koch deal alone should have landed him on the unemployment line. When you have other GM's calling you an idiot, I think that basically sums it right up.

I agree. Jim Hendry ISNT a genius. Hes the Guy who realizes all he needs to do to win in the Current System of Baseball, is to Don a Ski-Mask, and wait in the Alley next to the Bank for the Old Ladies of baseball (Marlins, Pirates, Reds etc) to cash their social security checks, then Strong-Arm Good Players away from them........ Pitching aside, the cubs pretty much got the best players from Last years Marlins onto their team now. Pudge2 is next. Kenny made the Koch deal because the SOX were CHEAP and thought by shopping in the generic aisle, they would get a suitable Closer ......Cheaper. They Got Burned Badly. Our bullpen got burned Badly. Sox Fans eventually got Burned Badly ............and that move eventually Cost Us the winnable Central Division. We have the farm system, we need to remove this Stupid line of thinking (that this team has had since the 1980's and one would realize IT HASNT WORKED) regarding
our Payroll and letting good players get away from us to stock up other teams

Lip Man 1
12-23-2003, 09:24 PM
I think it's unfair to use those comments about Williams simply because he doesn't have the budget to do anything. Give Williams a 90 million dollar budget and give Hendry a 58 million dollar budget and see what happens.

As far as the Ritchie / Pirate deal...it was a bad one no question but let's not go overboard...Josh Fogg and Kip Wells are mediocre pitchers at best and their ML records show this. Fogg and Wells are not the second coming of Koufax and Drysdale.

Lip

Northside fan
12-23-2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
I agree. Jim Hendry ISNT a genius. Hes the Guy who realizes all he needs to do to win in the Current System of Baseball, is to Don a Ski-Mask, and wait in the Alley next to the Bank for the Old Ladies of baseball (Marlins, Pirates, Reds etc) to cash their social security checks, then Strong-Arm Good Players away from them........ Pitching aside, the cubs pretty much got the best players from Last years Marlins onto their team now. Pudge2 is next. Kenny made the Koch deal because the SOX were CHEAP and thought by shopping in the generic aisle, they would get a suitable Closer ......Cheaper. They Got Burned Badly. Our bullpen got burned Badly. Sox Fans eventually got Burned Badly ............and that move eventually Cost Us the winnable Central Division. We have the farm system, we need to remove this Stupid line of thinking (that this team has had since the 1980's and one would realize IT HASNT WORKED) regarding
our Payroll and letting good players get away from us to stock up other teams


Hendry just signed Todd Walker for less than 2 million. Who did he "strong arm" to pull that off? Like I said, Hendry is not a genius, but this guy UNDERSTANDS the game and like I said earlier, when he smells blood, he attacks. Kenny Williams could have offered Walker a contract, so could any other team other then Boston. The bottom line here is that Hendry is smooth and Williams is a idiot. Just ask Billy Beane.

DrCrawdad
12-23-2003, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Hendry just signed Todd Walker for less than 2 million. Who did he "strong arm" to pull that off? Like I said, Hendry is not a genius, but this guy UNDERSTANDS the game and like I said earlier, when he smells blood, he attacks. Kenny Williams could have offered Walker a contract, so could any other team other then Boston. The bottom line here is that Hendry is smooth and Williams is a idiot. Just ask Billy Beane.

And I loved when Jim Hendry walked on water & healed the blind.

Hendry has the luxury of a budget nearly twice what KW has. Jim Hendry also signed or was involved in bringing on some real slugs - Lenny F. Harris being a primary example. Plus Hendry is riding high on the top ten draft picks that the Cubbies have had, because they've sucked so badly. On the other hand, the Sox have not had a top ten pick in probably ten years.

dickallen15
12-23-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Hendry just signed Todd Walker for less than 2 million. Who did he "strong arm" to pull that off? Like I said, Hendry is not a genius, but this guy UNDERSTANDS the game and like I said earlier, when he smells blood, he attacks. Kenny Williams could have offered Walker a contract, so could any other team other then Boston. The bottom line here is that Hendry is smooth and Williams is a idiot. Just ask Billy Beane.

If Hendry is so smart and Kenny so stupid, why didn't Hendry sign Loaisa last year for peanuts? Last time I checked, Hendry forgot that he needed a leadoff hitter. When Lofton was there is when the offense got better. Is Patterson going to leadoff again? He was the valedictorian of the Ozzie Guillen Hitting School, where you attempt to have your on base percentage equal your batting average.

joecrede
12-23-2003, 10:26 PM
The arrogance of the Cubs organization is a house of cards. It's built on Mark Prior and if Dusty continues to (ab)use him in the manner he did last year that house of cards isn't likely to be standing for very long.

joecrede
12-23-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
I think it's unfair to use those comments about Williams simply because he doesn't have the budget to do anything. Give Williams a 90 million dollar budget and give Hendry a 58 million dollar budget and see what happens.

Williams can't manage a $58M budget (see Koch, Konerko, and Lee). With a $90M budget there's reason to believe the roster would be comprised of that many more bad contracts.

Northside fan
12-24-2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
And I loved when Jim Hendry walked on water & healed the blind.

Hendry has the luxury of a budget nearly twice what KW has. Jim Hendry also signed or was involved in bringing on some real slugs - Lenny F. Harris being a primary example. Plus Hendry is riding high on the top ten draft picks that the Cubbies have had, because they've sucked so badly. On the other hand, the Sox have not had a top ten pick in probably ten years.

Again, I never said Hendry was a genius or hasn't made some bad moves. Heck, he traded D-train for Alf and got Florida to throw in Clement. So far, Alf sucked and is now gone and Clement has been decent. D-train won NLROY. That said, this is a man that less then two years ago inherited a 67-95 team and now has them as favorites in the NL to go to the World Series in '04. MacPhail left him a car wreck and he has done a great job turning it around. He suckered the Dodgers in taking Hundley for Grudz and Karros. If Hendry does not make that deal, the Cubs do not win the NLC last year. Anyone could have fleeced the Pirates last year, ANYONE. However, it was Hendry who stepped up and fleeced the Pirates, in what now is a Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez deal. Again, this is a fleecing. I knew Hill sucked the first week I saw him play. He was never going to be a star and I was doing back flips when he was dealt. Maybe Williams would flourish with a $85 million dollar payroll. That said, he has done very little to suggest that he would.

DrCrawdad
12-24-2003, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Again, I never said Hendry was a genius or hasn't made some bad moves. Heck, he traded D-train for Alf and got Florida to throw in Clement. So far, Alf sucked and is now gone and Clement has been decent. D-train won NLROY. That said, this is a man that less then two years ago inherited a 67-95 team and now has them as favorites in the NL to go to the World Series in '04. MacPhail left him a car wreck and he has done a great job turning it around. He suckered the Dodgers in taking Hundley for Grudz and Karros. If Hendry does not make that deal, the Cubs do not win the NLC last year. Anyone could have fleeced the Pirates last year, ANYONE. However, it was Hendry who stepped up and fleeced the Pirates, in what now is a Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez deal. Again, this is a fleecing. I knew Hill sucked the first week I saw him play. He was never going to be a star and I was doing back flips when he was dealt. Maybe Williams would flourish with a $85 million dollar payroll. That said, he has done very little to suggest that he would.

These deals where you feel that Hendry fleeced teams, if you look at them it was all about money or the Cubs willingness to take on large salaries.

If you stated in the past that Hill "sucked" and "never was going to be a star" then you're the first Cub fan that I've met that said that BEFORE the Cubbies traded Hill. Hill and Choi were ballyhooed by the Cubbies as future stars and guys the Cubbies would not trade since their stardom was a virtual lock. Every Cubbie fan that I've talked to bought into that hook, line and sinker - BEFORE they were traded. Now this players suck and have no future.

Northside fan
12-24-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
These deals where you feel that Hendry fleeced teams, if you look at them it was all about money or the Cubs willingness to take on large salaries

If you stated in the past that Hill "sucked" and "never was going to be a star" then you're the first Cub fan that I've met that said that BEFORE the Cubbies traded Hill. Hill and Choi were ballyhooed by the Cubbies as future stars and guys the Cubbies would not trade since their stardom was a virtual lock. Every Cubbie fan that I've talked to bought into that hook, line and sinker - BEFORE they were traded. Now this players suck and have no future.

Hundley for Grudz and Karros was a near wash as far as salaries. Money had nothing to do with this trade. Hendry just made a good move. I'm still amazed at the trade even today. We are talking about Todd Hundley here Crawdad.


I never buy the hype unless I see it with my own eyes. I saw Hill in 2002 and I never thought too much of him. Choi will be a good player, I really believe that. He was over matched last year but he will adjust. This deal was made because Baker and Hendry want to seal the deal within the next two years. If the Cubs do win it all, no matter what Choi does from here on out will matter.

DrCrawdad
12-24-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Hundley for Grudz and Karros was a near wash as far as salaries. Money had nothing to do with this trade. Hendry just made a good move. I'm still amazed at the trade even today. We are talking about Todd Hundley here Crawdad.


I never buy the hype unless I see it with my own eyes. I saw Hill in 2002 and I never thought too much of him. Choi will be a good player, I really believe that. He was over matched last year but he will adjust. This deal was made because Baker and Hendry want to seal the deal within the next two years. If the Cubs do win it all, no matter what Choi does from here on out will matter.

IIRC the Hundley trade was by the Dodgers to free themselves of two big contracts and that the Cubbies were putting out more money. Either way it was a good deal for the Cubbies.

My point was though that each of the trades you mentioned were deals were the other teams were unloading salary. Good for the Cubbies that they are acting in way like the Yankees, willing to take on the salaries. In the last year or so the Cubbies have allowed Hendry to deal from a position of financial advantage and strength. But I don't think that proves that Hendry is some genius or master trader.

maurice
12-24-2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Kenny Williams could have offered Walker a contract, so could any other team other then Boston. The bottom line here is that Hendry is smooth and Williams is a idiot. Just ask Billy Beane.

I like Hendry a lot, but you're comparing apples and oranges. It's impossible to know what KW would do with the cubs' budget, or what Hendry would do with the Sox budget.

In fact, KW could NOT have offered Walker a contract, in light of the pea-sized budget set by JR. KW is hardly thrilled at the notion of having Willie Harris as the only option at 2B, which is why he tried to re-sign Alomar.

Billy Beane's opinion and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee. This is the same guy who thought that Mark Johnson was a starting catcher in the major leagues.

DrCrawdad
12-24-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by maurice
I like Hendry a lot, but you're comparing apples and oranges. It's impossible to know what KW would do with the cubs' budget, or what Hendry would do with the Sox budget.

In fact, KW could NOT have offered Walker a contract, in light of the pea-sized budget set by JR. KW is hardly thrilled at the notion of having Willie Harris as the only option at 2B, which is why he tried to re-sign Alomar.

Billy Beane's opinion and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee. This is the same guy who thought that Mark Johnson was a starting catcher in the major leagues.

EXCELLENT!

Great point on Beane's opinion of M Johnson! Beane was so right about Mark that Mark spent most of '03 in the A's AAA and then was released. Then there was how Beane nabbed closer of the future in Joe Valentine from the Sox. Joe fits the Cuppa Coffee in the Big Leagues, was shipped to the Reds where Joe didn't merit a September call-up.

The book on Beane should have been title something reflecting Beane's egomania and self-promotion.

kempsted
12-26-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Stockdale,
As a Cubs fan, I don't feel Hendry is a genius. But I do feel he UNDERSTANDS the game of baseball more then any GM we have had since Dallas Green. The Derrek Lee trade was a beauty. Hee-Sop will be a good player but Lee is a very good player already and is only 28. Lee hasn't even hit his prime yet. Hendry is a shark, if he smells blood, he attacks. That said, he is only in his second year and he still has plenty to learn. Kenny Williams is just a dope, period! The infamous Pirate trade and the Koch deal alone should have landed him on the unemployment line. When you have other GM's calling you an idiot, I think that basically sums it right up.

Where did you hear about other GM's calling Williams an idiot? Moneyball? Beane thinks everyone is an idiot. Most other GM's including Hendry would not have looked down on either the Pittsburgh or the Koch trade at the time. Traditional baseball people liked Koch. Hendry is not new school he is old school. He also would have seen that trade as positive.

What most other GM's were reported to have said about Williams was (according to Sporting News) he had collected the most talent in the AL and couldn't win because of a lousy manager that he couldn't get rid of.

Don't let your one year of success blind you. The White Sox were as good a team as the Cubs last year. You can poo poo the Pythagorean rankings all you want but it has been shown that teams pretty much win according to their runs (for or against). The Cubs were a couple of games better than they should be (after the previous year of being bellow what they should have been) and the Houston Astros were a MLB leading 8 games under what they should have been. Looking at the standings Cubs would have finished third and White Sox first.

So look at all those brilliant moves you claimed Hendry made. Who is left? Ramirez and that is it. Hendry didn't make great moves - he had a good manager and Prior and Wood.

Hendry clearly understands baseball better than past GM's the Cubs have had. The Cubs have been the worst baseball franchise bar none. They have consistently spent toward the top and finished toward the bottom. The White Sox on the other hand consistently finish better than their spending. But you go on and continue to think that the Cubs are better. Enjoy next year when you finish third.

harwar
12-26-2003, 11:00 AM
Anyway you look at it,the White Sox are entering a dark period which,i believe, will last for years to come.The cubs on the other hand,are making all the right moves and not only will they win it all this year,i think everyone and his brother will be cub fans in 2004.Renevations or no,this may all end up with the White Sox moving to another city.

Brian26
12-26-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by harwar
Anyway you look at it,the White Sox are entering a dark period which,i believe, will last for years to come.The cubs on the other hand,are making all the right moves and not only will they win it all this year,i think everyone and his brother will be cub fans in 2004.Renevations or no,this may all end up with the White Sox moving to another city.

Wow. Talk about putting me in a good mood. Pass the holiday cheer over here.

CubKilla
12-26-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by harwar
Anyway you look at it,the White Sox are entering a dark period which,i believe, will last for years to come.The cubs on the other hand,are making all the right moves and not only will they win it all this year,i think everyone and his brother will be cub fans in 2004.Renevations or no,this may all end up with the White Sox moving to another city.

I agree in theory. However, the Cubs will not win it all in 2004.

Palehose13
12-26-2003, 04:20 PM
I'm sorry, but you can't put "cubs" and "real baseball" in the same sentence. Please fellow Sox fans, don't get sucked inot the media cub love fest this offseason. We are forgetting a few things:

A. The Sox aren't much worse than they were in December 01 and December 02. Many of us are merely speculating about trades or non-signings. Let's wait to see who is on the roster in the spring before we imitate "Chicken Little"

B. This team (basically the same team) hasn't been under .500 since 1999. The Al Central is looking weak. Even if moves aren't made in the offseason, I think if the Sox are poised to win the division at the start of July trades will be made to make the push for the rest of the season.

C. The cubs only won 88 games last year. Yes, they added Derek Lee, but I don't think 1st base was a hole that needed to be filled (Karros and Simon was an OK platoon). Hawkins is a good edition, but will not put them over the edge. Houston has better hitting AND signed Pettite. I think they have a good chance of winning that division. I may get a little nevous if IRod signs with the scrubs, but not before that.

D. History is on our side.

That being said, I will adress the original question. I would rather watch a last place Sox team (when was the last time THAT happened???) than a first place cub team.

Lip Man 1
12-26-2003, 06:47 PM
Unless the Cubs have a spate of injuries similar to the 2001 White Sox they will not be finishing in 3rd place in that division.

Let's put it this way, in my opinion, and I'm definately not a Cubs fan, they have a better chance of winning their division then the Sox do of winning theirs. (That's as of this moment...who knows the Sox may be out and sign six players next week...)

I don't follow the Cubs that closely but to me it seems they do not have any weaknesses they seemed to have filled their holes nicely....the Sox on the other hand because of their self improsed fiscal responsibility, have created more holes then they had last season and when your significant off season move is some no name like Juan Uribe you are in serious, serious trouble.

Lip

red faber
12-28-2003, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Meixner007
All i'm saying is that we don't play in the AL east...we play in the AL central...the sooner people realize this, the better off we'll be. I'm a firm believe that all you need is a ticket to the playoffs...what happens then is anybodys guess, especially if you are "gelling" at the end of the season (e.g. 2002, 2003)


yeah but here's the thing........

YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY GET THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


and with the team the sox have right now that ain't likely...

even in the crappy division we're in!!!!!!

red faber
12-28-2003, 03:54 AM
Originally posted by Grobber33
You're changing the subject! Wishing INJURY on someone had nothing to do with the Bartman stuff. Ask people in Baltimore what they still think today about Jeffery Meier 7 years later. You want to call out Cub Fans for being pissed at Bartman? Go ahead, he and others have to learn to keep their hands to themselves,that said,he sould not be threatened or have beer thrown on him.
BTW, just try and deny with a straight face that if someone had done that to Carlos Lee in Comiskey during a similar situation(possisble ALCS Clincher?),you and everyone here(not in denial)know full well that Sox Fans would want to hang whomever did that,from a light pole over the Canal Port Curve of the Dan Ryan X-Way during Rush Hour! It happened to the Cubs so you're all having a jolly time--hey go for it,you have the right!
One thing about Bartman, any perks he's been offered,he has donated to charity,and he remains a Cub Fan who has turned down overtures to become a Marlin or Sox Fan(and many Sox Fans wanted the Club to invite him to throw out the first ball opening day at 'Comiskey'-but he would'nt do it nor would Sox Management stoop to that).

All that off my chest, I hope everyone has a great Holiday!






oh brother,another scrub fan using bartman as an excuse.
when are you guys going to learn..

what about alex gonzalez bobbling that ROUTINE double play ground ball?????


what about kile fartsworth giving up a 3 run double to mike mordecai of all people?????

and why should he have to keep his hands to himself,the ball was in the stands!!!!!!

it was barely in the stands,but it was in the stands.which means that he had the right to try to grab it!!!!!!

leave that guy alone and blame the people who should be blamed!!!

red faber
12-28-2003, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
DrCrawdad,
The media is not the Sox problem. The problem with the Sox is your cheap owner who has had one media relations blunder after the other. I'm sorry, but if I am COMPETING with a RIVAL in the same town, the last thing I am going to say(true or not)is that this is a Cubs town and it always will be. ASSANINE!! Secondly, he blew up the 97 Sox and declared we have no chance at catching the Indians. The 03 Cubs and 97 Sox were very similar in talent. The Cubs did not blow their team up, Hendry went out and added the pieces to bring a division crown to the North side. If you have a owner who basically could give a rats butt about the team, how do you expect the media to re-act?


but you've got to admit,the biased media in this city does add fuel to the fire...

red faber
12-28-2003, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by Northside fan
Hendry just signed Todd Walker for less than 2 million. Who did he "strong arm" to pull that off? Like I said, Hendry is not a genius, but this guy UNDERSTANDS the game and like I said earlier, when he smells blood, he attacks. Kenny Williams could have offered Walker a contract, so could any other team other then Boston. The bottom line here is that Hendry is smooth and Williams is a idiot. Just ask Billy Beane.


you've got a point, kenny williams is an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!

and maybe hendry is smooth,but you have got to be crazy if you don't think the fact that hendry has a bigger budget to work with doesn't help him!!!!!!!!!!!

kempsted
12-28-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Unless the Cubs have a spate of injuries similar to the 2001 White Sox they will not be finishing in 3rd place in that division.

Let's put it this way, in my opinion, and I'm definately not a Cubs fan, they have a better chance of winning their division then the Sox do of winning theirs. (That's as of this moment...who knows the Sox may be out and sign six players next week...)

I don't follow the Cubs that closely but to me it seems they do not have any weaknesses they seemed to have filled their holes nicely....the Sox on the other hand because of their self improsed fiscal responsibility, have created more holes then they had last season and when your significant off season move is some no name like Juan Uribe you are in serious, serious trouble.

Lip

The reason that I say they will finish third is that last year they were third place - except with some luck. They have only made lateral moves so far this year. They are in the same division as Houston and St. Louis both making more and better moves than the Cubs so far. They are the Cubs. All of that spells third place to me.

I agree the Sox could fall, but they are still in a weaker division than the NL Central. Minnesota looks like it will fall. Cleveland and KC have been working to improve though so you are right we are not a lock on the division but I still like our chances better than the Cubs.

oharewx
12-29-2003, 12:20 AM
the sox have the best chance at winning their division next year. the twins lost a lot of good players and k.c. was just plain lucky last year. the flubs will have to be better than a good astro team that will have a great pitching staff. petitte and clemens will make them a solid team.