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View Full Version : M's sign Ichiro for 4 more years


Viva Magglio
12-18-2003, 02:39 PM
Gee, a team realizes how good its right fielder is and re-signs him without taking the Reinsdorfian lowball approach.

jshanahanjr
12-18-2003, 02:54 PM
If it were Reinsdorf negotiating he would have offered gift cards to Starbucks and a discount off his Safeco Insurance. White Irish kids love Magglio too!

BeerHandle
12-18-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Gee, a team realizes how good its right fielder is and re-signs him without taking the Reinsdorfian lowball approach.

What was the deal worth?

BeerHandle
12-18-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Gee, a team realizes how good its right fielder is and re-signs him without taking the Reinsdorfian lowball approach.

ESPN.COM did not report the terms. However, Ichiro was only making $4.3mil in 2003.

StillMissOzzie
12-19-2003, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by BeerHandle
ESPN.COM did not report the terms. However, Ichiro was only making $4.3mil in 2003.

ESPN.com has update the Ichiro signing story. He's getting 4/$44M, including a $6M signing bonus. I wonder how this will affect Magglio's demands, just in case there's any chance of a contract extension still alive...

SMO
:gulp:

MisterB
12-19-2003, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by StillMissOzzie
ESPN.com has update the Ichiro signing story. He's getting 4/$44M, including a $6M signing bonus. I wonder how this will affect Magglio's demands, just in case there's any chance of a contract extension still alive...

SMO
:gulp:

Magglio's agent will undoubtedly look for a deal something close to whatever Vlad Guerrero winds up getting this year. Ichiro's not a middle of the order hitter and his deal shouldn't have much bearing on Maggs' demands.

Huisj
12-19-2003, 11:02 AM
that's a lot for him. whoa

Brian26
12-19-2003, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
Magglio's agent will undoubtedly look for a deal something close to whatever Vlad Guerrero winds up getting this year. Ichiro's not a middle of the order hitter and his deal shouldn't have much bearing on Maggs' demands.

Some people would argue that Ichiro is worth just as much as Maggs, if not more. So he bats leadoff...big deal. The guy sets the table for that entire team. He can seemingly get on base at will. So he doesn't hit over 30 homers a year; big deal. I guarantee Ichiro doesn't hit into ground ball doubleplays like Maggs. If you need to know about Ichiro's defense or his arm, I'm sure Josh Paul would be happy to fill you in. $11 million a year for Ichiro or $14+ mil. a year for Maggs? I'd say Maggs is the one getting overpaid.

JasonC23
12-19-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
He (Ichiro) can seemingly get on base at will. ... $11 million a year for Ichiro or $14+ mil. a year for Maggs? I'd say Maggs is the one getting overpaid.

Two things:

Ichiro's OBP: 2001: .381; 2002: .388; 2003: .352
Magg's OBP: 2001: .382; 2002: .381; 2003: .380

Advantage: Magglio

Secondly, last year, Magg's EQA was .310; Ichiro's, .285. Magg's RARP was 49.4; Ichiro's, 31.5.

At your quoted prices, Ichiro is overpayed (not counting the off-the-field revenue he generates), while Magglio is just about right.

Brian26
12-19-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
Two things:

Ichiro's OBP: 2001: .381; 2002: .388; 2003: .352
Magg's OBP: 2001: .382; 2002: .381; 2003: .380

Advantage: Magglio

Secondly, last year, Magg's EQA was .310; Ichiro's, .285. Magg's RARP was 49.4; Ichiro's, 31.5.

At your quoted prices, Ichiro is overpayed (not counting the off-the-field revenue he generates), while Magglio is just about right.

Do you have any defensive stats? How about stats regarding how many times a guy hit into an inning ending doubleplay? How many times did Ordonez pop out with runners in scoring position compared to Ichiro? Ichiro can lay that bunt down and get on at-will. The same can't be said of Maggs.

fuzzy_patters
12-19-2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
Two things:

Ichiro's OBP: 2001: .381; 2002: .388; 2003: .352
Magg's OBP: 2001: .382; 2002: .381; 2003: .380

Advantage: Magglio

Secondly, last year, Magg's EQA was .310; Ichiro's, .285. Magg's RARP was 49.4; Ichiro's, 31.5.

At your quoted prices, Ichiro is overpayed (not counting the off-the-field revenue he generates), while Magglio is just about right.

This might be a dumb question, but what is RARP? That's a stat I haven't seen before.

JasonC23
12-19-2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
Do you have any defensive stats? How about stats regarding how many times a guy hit into an inning ending doubleplay? How many times did Ordonez pop out with runners in scoring position compared to Ichiro? Ichiro can lay that bunt down and get on at-will. The same can't be said of Maggs.

Courtesy of Baseball Prospectus...

Net double-play rate for Ichiro in 2003: -5.77
Net double-play rate for Maggs in 2003: 9.27

Advantage: Ichiro by a lot

Fielding RAR2 (runs above replacement), Ichiro: 2001, 28; 2002, 24; 2003, 31
Fielding RAR2, Maggs: 2001, 16; 2002, 14; 2003, 28

Advantage: Ichiro, but not by as much as I thought

So Ichiro does, in fact, ground into less double plays and is, in fact, a better fielder. But Maggs is BY FAR the better hitter. You keep saying Ichiro "gets on base at will." OBP measure how often a player gets on base. Again:

Ichiro's 2001 OBP: .381; Magg's 2001 OBP: .382 (EQUAL)
Ichiro's 2002 OBP: .388, Magg's 2002 OBP: .381 (SLIGHT advantage, Ichiro)
Ichiro's 2003 OBP: .352; Magg's 2003 OBP: .380 (HUGE advantage, Maggs)

Maggs gets on base more than Ichiro does, no matter how many times Ichiro bunts or bloops or slaps or whatever he's doing that is misleading you into thinking he's an OBP machine.

I apologize if I'm coming across as a jackass, but I just hate it when people support arguments with statements that are just blatantly untrue. Magglio is a far superior hitter than Ichiro, and his lesser speed and arm strength don't make up that huge gap.

JasonC23
12-19-2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by fuzzy_patters
This might be a dumb question, but what is RARP? That's a stat I haven't seen before.

RARP = runs above replacement player. Basically, it's how many runs better the player is than a AAA replacement.

fuzzy_patters
12-19-2003, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
RARP = runs above replacement player. Basically, it's how many runs better the player is than a AAA replacement.

Thanks.

Brian26
12-19-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
I apologize if I'm coming across as a jackass, but I just hate it when people support arguments with statements that are just blatantly untrue. Magglio is a far superior hitter than Ichiro, and his lesser speed and arm strength don't make up that huge gap.

You're not coming off as a jackass at all. The statistics are interesting. I didn't think Maggs was as close to Ichiro in 2001, and I didn't think Ichiro dropped that far down in 2003. All interesting numbers. So if Ichiro is worth $11 mil, does the gap in the 2003 OBP make up for Maggs $14 mil?

rdivaldi
12-19-2003, 02:13 PM
Mariners attendance for past 5 years....

1999: 2,916,346
2000: 2,914,624
2001: 3,507,326
2002: 3,542,938
2003: 3,268,509

Gee, I wonder where they got the money to sign him?

Paulwny
12-19-2003, 02:39 PM
Here are some other bonuses in the contract

From the AP
In the first three years, he would earn bonuses of $50,000 for 400 plate appearances, and $100,000 each for 500 and 600 plate appearances. In 2007, he would get $100,000 for 400 plate appearances and $200,000 each for 500 and 600 plate appearances.

His contract also calls for housing allowances of $28,000 in 2004, $29,000 in 2005, $30,000 in 2006 and $31,000 in 2007. Suzuki also gets an interpreter, personal trainer, ground transportation during spring training and the regular season, and four round-trip first-class plane tickets from Japan to Seattle twice every year.

maurice
12-19-2003, 03:02 PM
If Maggs is more valuable than Ichiro, it's not by much. Maggs is a better hitter because he has more power. However, Ichiro is much faster and can play a very solid CF. IMHO, if Ichiro is worth $11 mil, Maggs is slightly overpaid at $14 mil, because he's not 27% better.

JasonC23
12-19-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
You're not coming off as a jackass at all. The statistics are interesting. I didn't think Maggs was as close to Ichiro in 2001, and I didn't think Ichiro dropped that far down in 2003. All interesting numbers. So if Ichiro is worth $11 mil, does the gap in the 2003 OBP make up for Maggs $14 mil?

I think the decent OBP gap and the HUGE SLG gap make up for the extra $3 million:

Ichiro's SLG: 2001, .457; 2002, .425; 2003, .436
Magg's SLG: 2001, .533; 2002, .597; 2003, .546

When you can get on base as well as Ichiro and hit with as much power as Maggs does, I think that makes the extra $3 million worth it.

It is amazing just how underrated Maggs is. He's better than Ichiro, he's better than Garrett Anderson, he's better than Juan Gonzalez...but the mainstream press doesn't care because he plays for the White Sox. :(:

fquaye149
12-19-2003, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Gee, a team realizes how good its right fielder is and re-signs him without taking the Reinsdorfian lowball approach.


too bad the sox have two left fielders or else we might have a rightfielder to re-sign


and oh wait....i forgot...was it us or magglio who didn't want to resign?

you tell me