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View Full Version : Would Mágglio being traded insult Chicago's Latino community?


Viva Magglio
12-18-2003, 01:58 PM
Not only is Mágglio Ordóńez our best player, I believe he is currently our most popular player. Moreover, I would suspect that Mágglio's popularity is immense in Chicago's Latino community. If and when he is traded away, not only would the majority of White Sox Nation be outraged but an even greater outrage would take place among Latinos who root for the White Sox.

I realize that we would be getting a Mexican-American player in Nomar Garciaparra, at least immediately after this trade takes place. While a majority of Chicago's Latino community is of Mexican descent, I believe that the community has formed such a rapport with the Venezuelan Ordóńez that not even the Mexican-American Garciaparra can be considered an adequate replacement for him.

I believe that like the rest of us who admire Mágglio and want him to stay, the Latino community would be deeply hurt if he was traded basically because of Chairman Reinsdorf's cheapskate philosophy. While Reinsdorf & Co. lament about the lack of fans at the ballpark, they have evidently not seen that Latinos have formed a solid bloc of those fans who are attending games at the ballpark. Anyone who goes to games on a regular basis knows the support the White Sox get from the Latino community.

I have already made the decision to not renew my split-season ticket package. My finances are tight this winter, and I don't feel I should have to pay more money for an increasingly inferior product. At the time I made that decision, I had planned to attend a number of games throughout the season. Now, I am not sure if I want to attend any games at all if Mágglio is ripped from us. Well, if he is ripped from us, I'll probably attend at least three certain games taking place August 20, August 21, and August 22.

I am convinced that many people will base a decision to not attend White Sox games in 2004 on this trade if it indeed happens. I wonder if even stronger sentiment for that approach exists in places like Pislen, Cicero, Little Village, and Humboldt Park.

Palehose13
12-18-2003, 02:07 PM
Hmmm, with names like:

O. Guillen
Garciaparra (or Perez)
Valentin (or Garcia or C. Guillen)
Loaiza
Alomar Jr.
C. Lee
Marte
Uribe
J. Cora
Santana

I'm not so sure.

Viva Magglio
12-18-2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
Hmmm, with names like:

O. Guillen
Garciaparra (or Perez)
Valentin (or Garcia or C. Guillen)
Loaiza
Alomar Jr.
C. Lee
Marte
Uribe
J. Cora
Santana

I'm not so sure.

Except for Ozzie when he was in his playing prime, as well as Luis Aparacio when he played, none of those players you named have been as impactful as Mágglio.

Eddie Gaedel
12-18-2003, 02:10 PM
yes, just like all the whites got pissed when ventura was traded!

duke of dorwood
12-18-2003, 02:12 PM
Not in the normal course of baseball.

Palehose13
12-18-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Eddie Gaedel
yes, just like all the whites got pissed when ventura was traded!

And all the blacks with Baines.
Is this really a relevant question?

fledgedrallycap
12-18-2003, 02:17 PM
If anyone is that naive and oblivious to the business of baseball; then they deserve to believe that...

Mammoo
12-18-2003, 02:18 PM
I'm on record as wanting Maggs to stay, but who cares about an ethnic backlash!!! :?:

The Hispanic community is well represented on 35th Street.

MarqSox
12-18-2003, 02:18 PM
I have an idea. Instead of worrying about whether the White Sox have enough Latinos (or whites, or blacks, or Japanese, or British, or Serbian), worry about whether the team is improving.

Viva, you've made it clear that you're against trading Maggs. That's fine ... but it would be disheartening to know you're basing that on his race and not on baseball considerations.

Dadawg_77
12-18-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I have an idea. Instead of worrying about whether the White Sox have enough Latinos (or whites, or blacks, or Japanese, or British, or Serbian), worry about whether the team is improving.

Viva, you've made it clear that you're against trading Maggs. That's fine ... but it would be disheartening to know you're basing that on his race and not on baseball considerations.

It could play out at the ticket stands though. If the Latino community identifies themselves with Mags, him leaving could cause a backlash.

voodoochile
12-18-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I have an idea. Instead of worrying about whether the White Sox have enough Latinos (or whites, or blacks, or Japanese, or British, or Serbian), worry about whether the team is improving.

Viva, you've made it clear that you're against trading Maggs. That's fine ... but it would be disheartening to know you're basing that on his race and not on baseball considerations.

I couldn't have said it better. Why should it matter what Magglio's race is? Have the Sox come out and said that they are trading him because of his ethnicity? Has anyone other than the person who started this thread ever even insinuated ANYTHING about race when it comes to Maggs?

:threadsucks

I mean literally...

:threadsucks

That just didn't do it for me...

:threadsucks

Ahhhhh... much better... oh what the heck, one more time...

:threadsucks

cheeses_h_rice
12-18-2003, 02:21 PM
No.

joecrede
12-18-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
Not only is Mágglio Ordóńez our best player, I believe he is currently our most popular player. Moreover, I would suspect that Mágglio's popularity is immense in Chicago's Latino community. If and when he is traded away, not only would the majority of White Sox Nation be outraged but an even greater outrage would take place among Latinos who root for the White Sox.

I realize that we would be getting a Mexican-American player in Nomar Garciaparra, at least immediately after this trade takes place. While a majority of Chicago's Latino community is of Mexican descent, I believe that the community has formed such a rapport with the Venezuelan Ordóńez that not even the Mexican-American Garciaparra can be considered an adequate replacement for him.

I believe that like the rest of us who admire Mágglio and want him to stay, the Latino community would be deeply hurt if he was traded basically because of Chairman Reinsdorf's cheapskate philosophy. While Reinsdorf & Co. lament about the lack of fans at the ballpark, they have evidently not seen that Latinos have formed a solid bloc of those fans who are attending games at the ballpark. Anyone who goes to games on a regular basis knows the support the White Sox get from the Latino community.

I have already made the decision to not renew my split-season ticket package. My finances are tight this winter, and I don't feel I should have to pay more money for an increasingly inferior product. At the time I made that decision, I had planned to attend a number of games throughout the season. Now, I am not sure if I want to attend any games at all if Mágglio is ripped from us. Well, if he is ripped from us, I'll probably attend at least three certain games taking place August 20, August 21, and August 22.

I am convinced that many people will base a decision to not attend White Sox games in 2004 on this trade if it indeed happens. I wonder if even stronger sentiment for that approach exists in places like Pislen, Cicero, Little Village, and Humboldt Park.

Is this Dusty? :D:

I think the majority of White Sox fans who attend games are white, so maybe they should deal Ordonez for Trot Nixon.

You can't please everyone ...

Dadawg_77
12-18-2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I couldn't have said it better. Why should it matter what Magglio's race is? Have the Sox come out and said that they are trading him because of his ethnicity? Has anyone other than the person who started this thread ever even insinuated ANYTHING about race when it comes to Maggs?


I think you are missing the point Viva is talking about. Many people identify with Mags, now Viva is saying many Latinos identify with Mags because he is Latino, which very well may be true. So Viva question is if Mags is trade does it hurt Sox support in the Latino community since that is the player they identify with.

Viva Magglio
12-18-2003, 02:29 PM
If you think I am basing my desire to keep Mágglio simply because of his race, then you are all dopes!!! Of course, I am basing my opposition to Mágglio being traded upon his baseball considerations. Getting Nomar Garciaparra for him (or those LA pitchers for Garciaparra, for that matter) does not make our team better. I concern myself with how many wins our team has; not how many Latinos are on our team.

If we get rid of Mágglio Ordóńez, it will not lead to more wins.

My point is that the Latino community would feel very hurt if Mágglio is traded. Sure, him being Latino is a major factor in this. However, Mágglio has become beloved among Latinos not solely because he is Latino but because he is a great ballplayer who happens to be Latino. Other Latino ballplayers such as Carlos Lee have not been able to become this popular in the Latino community because they have never acheived the star status in baseball that Ordóńez has.

Palehose13
12-18-2003, 02:31 PM
Anyone think it is odd that all four major players involved in this trade are Latino???
Heeheeheee

MarqSox
12-18-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I think you are missing the point Viva is talking about. Many people identify with Mags, now Viva is saying many Latinos identify with Mags because he is Latino, which very well may be true. So Viva question is if Mags is trade does it hurt Sox support in the Latino community since that is the player they identify with.
I might buy that ... if he was the team's only Latino. But he's not. How many Latinos do we have? 8? 9? Yeah, he's the best one ... OK great.

Who's the best white guy we have? Mark Buehrle? I tell ya what, if we were on the verge of trading Buehrle, and I heard people suggesting that fewer whites would come to the game because "he's the one they identify with," we'd have people going ape**** (and rightfully so). For people to base their White Sox allegiance on race is insulting and asinine. Period.

Eddie Gaedel
12-18-2003, 02:32 PM
we need more poles on the team. that would fill up comiskey!

Viva Magglio
12-18-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I think you are missing the point Viva is talking about. Many people identify with Mags, now Viva is saying many Latinos identify with Mags because he is Latino, which very well may be true. So Viva question is if Mags is trade does it hurt Sox support in the Latino community since that is the player they identify with.

Thank you, dawg.

Dadawg_77
12-18-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Eddie Gaedel
we need more poles on the team. that would fill up comiskey!

Like the Big Klu? He did benefit from being Polish in this city.

Palehose13
12-18-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I might buy that ... if he was the team's only Latino. But he's not. How many Latinos do we have? 8? 9? Yeah, he's the best one ... OK great.

Who's the best white guy we have? Mark Buehrle? I tell ya what, if we were on the verge of trading Buehrle, and I heard people suggesting that fewer whites would come to the game because "he's the one they identify with," we'd have people going ape**** (and rightfully so). For people to base their White Sox allegiance on race is insulting and asinine. Period.

Amen, brother.

Palehose13
12-18-2003, 02:36 PM
We need to trade Magglio for nine mini Ditka's. That would increase attendance.

voodoochile
12-18-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
If you think I am basing my desire to keep Mágglio simply because of his race, then you are all dopes!!! Of course, I am basing my opposition to Mágglio being traded upon his baseball considerations. Getting Nomar Garciaparra for him (or those LA pitchers for Garciaparra, for that matter) does not make our team better. I concern myself with how many wins our team has; not how many Latinos are on our team.

If we get rid of Mágglio Ordóńez, it will not lead to more wins.

My point is that the Latino community would feel very hurt if Mágglio is traded. Sure, him being Latino is a major factor in this. However, Mágglio has become beloved among Latinos not solely because he is Latino but because he is a great ballplayer who happens to be Latino. Other Latino ballplayers such as Carlos Lee have not been able to become this popular in the Latino community because they have never acheived the star status in baseball that Ordóńez has.

Okay, I think I understand what you are saying. I would guess that Yes, some Latino's would be upset by the move. However, that should almost never play a role in making a baseball decision.

All things being equal, marketability should factor into the equation, but that is not the case in the propsed trade.

MarqSox
12-18-2003, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
If you think I am basing my desire to keep Mágglio simply because of his race, then you are all dopes!!! Of course, I am basing my opposition to Mágglio being traded upon his baseball considerations. Getting Nomar Garciaparra for him (or those LA pitchers for Garciaparra, for that matter) does not make our team better. I concern myself with how many wins our team has; not how many Latinos are on our team.

If we get rid of Mágglio Ordóńez, it will not lead to more wins.

My point is that the Latino community would feel very hurt if Mágglio is traded. Sure, him being Latino is a major factor in this. However, Mágglio has become beloved among Latinos not solely because he is Latino but because he is a great ballplayer who happens to be Latino. Other Latino ballplayers such as Carlos Lee have not been able to become this popular in the Latino community because they have never acheived the star status in baseball that Ordóńez has.
The people you speak of are not Sox fans ... they are Magglio Ordonez fans. Which is OK, but let's not kid ourselves then. We could trade Maggs for Barry Bonds and it would make them upset. Does that mean we shouldn't do it?

joecrede
12-18-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
If you think I am basing my desire to keep Mágglio simply because of his race, then you are all dopes!!! Of course, I am basing my opposition to Mágglio being traded upon his baseball considerations. Getting Nomar Garciaparra for him (or those LA pitchers for Garciaparra, for that matter) does not make our team better. I concern myself with how many wins our team has; not how many Latinos are on our team.

If we get rid of Mágglio Ordóńez, it will not lead to more wins.

My point is that the Latino community would feel very hurt if Mágglio is traded. Sure, him being Latino is a major factor in this. However, Mágglio has become beloved among Latinos not solely because he is Latino but because he is a great ballplayer who happens to be Latino. Other Latino ballplayers such as Carlos Lee have not been able to become this popular in the Latino community because they have never acheived the star status in baseball that Ordóńez has.

Viva, I believe White Sox fans in the Latino community are very desirous of a ... team with the opportunity to make the playoffs -- and moving Maggs might be required to give the Sox the best opportunity to do that.

Eddie Gaedel
12-18-2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
We need to trade Magglio for nine mini Ditka's. That would increase attendance.

who would win in a fight between ditka and a hurracane? before you answer, the hurracane's name is 'hurricane ditka'.

Viva Magglio
12-18-2003, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Viva, I believe White Sox fans in the Latino community are very desirous of a ... team with the opportunity to make the playoffs -- and moving Maggs might be required to give the Sox the best opportunity to do that.

No, having Jerry Reinsdorf not be our team's owner anymore is required to give the Sox the best opportunity to do that. Trading Mágglio will not make put us any closer to the playoffs.

And I think every White Sox fan of every group of people imaginable would agree with me on the Reinsdorf part.

MarqSox
12-18-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
No, having Jerry Reinsdorf not be our team's owner anymore is required to give the Sox the best opportunity to do that. Trading Mágglio will not make put us any closer to the playoffs.

And I think every White Sox fan of every group of people imaginable would agree with me on the Reinsdorf part.
Well, it depends ... for as bad an owner as JR is, I can think of a half dozen who are worse. Tom Hicks ... Glass ... the Twins guy ... MLB ... Peter Angelos, even despite his recent signings ... whoever the hell owns the D-Rays ... the guy in Cincinnati ... the Seligs ...

It could definitely be better, but it could definitely be worse.

Hangar18
12-18-2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I think you are missing the point Viva is talking about. Many people identify with Mags, now Viva is saying many Latinos identify with Mags because he is Latino, which very well may be true. So Viva question is if Mags is trade does it hurt Sox support in the Latino community since that is the player they identify with.

I was going to type something just like this, but DaDawg beat me to it. I know what Viva was getting at. I have seen INCREASING numbers of latino fans at the games, and im assuming its because of Lee and Maggs. Loiazas breatkout lst yr helped very much also......
question was....will it hurt the latino fanbase. Probably will.
and YES, Maggs is arguably the most "marketable" of all the latin players we have.....the SOX for some reason are just doing a Terrible Job of doing so

SoxRulecubsdrool
12-18-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Palehose13
We need to trade Magglio for nine mini Ditka's. That would increase attendance.
:iron

Nine mini Ditka's? Wouldn't that be a little unfair to the opposing teams, my friend? :gulp:

Viva Magglio
12-18-2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
Well, it depends ... for as bad an owner as JR is, I can think of a half dozen who are worse. Tom Hicks ... Glass ... the Twins guy ... MLB ... Peter Angelos, even despite his recent signings ... whoever the hell owns the D-Rays ... the guy in Cincinnati ... the Seligs ...

It could definitely be better, but it could definitely be worse.

Let me tell you this. This move here would be one Bill Wirtz would typically make. From letting Bobby Hull go to Winnipeg (actually, that was Arthur Wirtz and not Bill) to giving Jeremy Roenick away (Alex Zhamnov = crap) to giving Chris Chelios to a division rival to letting Tony Amonte go away.

And where are the Blackhawks now, no thanks to Wirtz?

kittle42
12-18-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Okay, I think I understand what you are saying. I would guess that Yes, some Latinos would be upset by the move. However, that should almost never play a role in making a baseball decision.


You're right. In fact, when was the last time JR ever let how any Sox fan felt play a role in making a baseball decision?

kittle42
12-18-2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
And where are the Blackhawks now, no thanks to Wirtz?

I don't know. My radio's broken.

FanOf14
12-18-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
And where are the Blackhawks now, no thanks to Wirtz?

They better be in Ottawa, Ontario or the Senators will win by default!

GO SENATORS!!!! :smile:

PS - Yes, I know what you meant in your post, but figured we all needed a grin (or an attempt one)!

jabrch
12-18-2003, 03:07 PM
The Latino community still owes us one from Jose Paniagua.


Seriously though, I can't see them being "insulted" by this - it is a pure baseball decision and has nothing to do with nationality.

Anyhow, Chicago's latino commuity is mostly Mexican/Puerto Rica while Magglio is from South America (Venezuela). Not that it matters either way.

The black community wouldn't be hurt if we traded Frank. I hear no Italian uproar over the loss of Graffanino. The Jewish community would likely be thrilled if JR traded himself for an owner to be named later.

miker
12-18-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
And where are the Blackhawks now, no thanks to Wirtz?

Its hard to imagine the Hawks getting any "Wirtz" than they already are.

As for this potential trade alienating our Latino fans, two comments:
- JR's track record for slapping the fans in the face is very good
- never let common sense get in the way of charges of racial inequity in Chicago

Dadawg_77
12-18-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
The Latino community still owes us one from Jose Paniagua.


Seriously though, I can't see them being "insulted" by this - it is a pure baseball decision and has nothing to do with nationality.

Anyhow, Chicago's latino commuity is mostly Mexican/Puerto Rica while Magglio is from South America (Venezuela). Not that it matters either way.

The black community wouldn't be hurt if we traded Frank. I hear no Italian uproar over the loss of Graffanino. The Jewish community would likely be thrilled if JR traded himself for an owner to be named later.

I actually I know a few Italians upset Tony is gone. Then again one of the requirements to be their favorite player is the last name ending is vowel.

Rocky Soprano
12-18-2003, 03:29 PM
As a Latino, Huge White Sox Fan, and Huge Magglio Fan: I completely understand what Viva is trying to say.

I myself would not be offended if Magglio was trade but I would be pissed off, not because he is hispanic but because of the awesome player he is. And because I feel were are not getting enough back for him.

I know some hispanics that really enjoy the fact that Magglio is a great player and the feel they can relate more to him becuase he is hispanic. Same goes for Esteban L. There was ton of Mexicans that would show up on the days he was pitching and would hold up the Mexican flag to show support. Take Esteban out of the equation and these people probably wouldnt show up to the games.

Now Magglio is on a whole different level. He is loved by all because of his skills. But I do believe that there are some hispanics that would be upset to see their favorite player gone and would probably lose some interest.

Again not because of his color but because some of these people truly relate to him and its like seeing a family member leave.

Hope I'm making sense.

jabrch
12-18-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
As a Latino, Huge White Sox Fan, and Huge Magglio Fan: I completely understand what Viva is trying to say.

I myself would not be offended if Magglio was trade but I would be pissed off, not because he is hispanic but because of the awesome player he is. And because I feel were are not getting enough back for him.

I know some hispanics that really enjoy the fact that Magglio is a great player and the feel they can relate more to him becuase he is hispanic. Same goes for Esteban L. There was ton of Mexicans that would show up on the days he was pitching and would hold up the Mexican flag to show support. Take Esteban out of the equation and these people probably wouldnt show up to the games.

Now Magglio is on a whole different level. He is loved by all because of his skills. But I do believe that there are some hispanics that would be upset to see their favorite player gone and would probably lose some interest.

Again not because of his color but because some of these people truly relate to him and its like seeing a family member leave.

Hope I'm making sense.


Makes sense Rocky, but won't you be equally as attracted to a guy like Nomar? I am caucasian, and I am a huge Magglio fan. I am a huge ELO fan. I am a fan of Frank and of Carlos and neither of them are white either.

I don't go to games for any one player. I got cuz of the White Sox and the game of baseball.

:jaime
I remember all the latino pride when he pitched


Seriously - I understand you...we all will miss Magglio for the ballplayer he is and the person he is.

miker
12-18-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I actually I know a few Italians upset Tony is gone. Then again one of the requirements to be their favorite player is the last name ending is vowel.

There's still Miquel Olivo...

kraut83
12-18-2003, 03:53 PM
I know most everyone around here will greatly miss Maggs if he goes. Unlike "fans" of a certain team on the north side, most Sox fans I know go to watch their team play and not whoever is out in right field.

*DISCLAIMER*: In no way am I comparing Maggs to this tea bag: :smile:

:shammy

Rocky Soprano
12-18-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Makes sense Rocky, but won't you be equally as attracted to a guy like Nomar? I am caucasian, and I am a huge Magglio fan. I am a huge ELO fan. I am a fan of Frank and of Carlos and neither of them are white either.

I don't go to games for any one player. I got cuz of the White Sox and the game of baseball.

:jaime
I remember all the latino pride when he pitched


Seriously - I understand you...we all will miss Magglio for the ballplayer he is and the person he is.

I personally would still be fan and like having a player of Nomar's caliber. Im reffering to those few hundred (maybe) that probably would be really upset to see someone they relate to leave the team.

One thing we are all sure of is that management is pissing all of us off one way or another.

MarqSox
12-18-2003, 04:10 PM
This thread's name is misleading to me. It should say "Would Magglio being traded disappoint CHicago's Latino community?"

To ask if it "insults" them is implying that Maggs' being traded is somehow based on his race.

jortafan
12-18-2003, 04:19 PM
Regardless of how the question is phrased, I'd have to say the answer is 'no.'

I'd dispute the notion that Magglio is the 'fan favorite' of Hispanic/Latino fans of the White Sox. Among current ballplayers, Jose Valentin is the one who seems to get the most love/respect/attention from that segment of Sox fandom. Perhaps it's because Magglio is so mildmannered/softspoken/too damn quiet for his own good while the more mouthy Jose gets the attention.

But the fact that about nine other players are Hispanic gives the Sox a strong Latino flavor, regardless of which players are here. I don't think there'd be much of a backlash. And even if there was, I'm not sure that JR would give a damn.

Also, I'm not saying that the trading of Jose Valentin would stir a fan backlash -- unless the players received in return turned out to be total doggie doo. And Hispanic Sox fans would feel just as disgusted as they did when our team gave up Kip Wells and a lot of other talent for Todd Ritchie. (That deal still makes me sick).

KingXerxes
12-18-2003, 04:26 PM
:hawk

Misericordia!..............Dejeme opinion justa esto si puedo. He estado alrededor de este juego por cerca de seiscientos anos, y nunca he visto a jugador mejor Latino que viejo Moe Drabowsky...........Si senor - viejo Moe podria apenas completamenta fuera de echada.

:DJ

"What?"

jabrch
12-18-2003, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
:hawk

Misericordia!..............Dejeme opinion justa esto si puedo. He estado alrededor de este juego por cerca de seiscientos anos, y nunca he visto a jugador mejor Latino que viejo Moe Drabowsky...........Si senor - viejo Moe podria apenas completamenta fuera de echada.

:DJ

"What?"

Damn, I nearly crapped myself laughing...Thanks King!

MarqSox
12-18-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Damn, I nearly crapped myself laughing...Thanks King!
I, like DJ, said "what?" Guess I shouldn't have taken French.

Baby Fisk
12-18-2003, 04:47 PM
Hilarious even without translation! (but better with translation...) :D:

KingXerxes
12-18-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I, like DJ, said "what?" Guess I shouldn't have taken French.


:hawk

"Le meilleur joueur francais de boule que jai jamais vu etait Orlando Cepeda..............Pitie!"


:farmer

"Wow - You can speak German !"

davenicholson
12-18-2003, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
I am a huge ELO fan.

I always found them somewhat overproduced, but what do I know, I'm a huge Moody Blues fan! :smile:

TheRockinMT
12-18-2003, 09:59 PM
It's all about the money and only the money. The Sox are the same team that unceramoniusly dumped a Hall of Fame catcher in mid season 1993, by the name of Carlton Fisk. There is no loyalty anymore, on both sides, to anything but the "dead presidents."

TommyJohn
12-18-2003, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Eddie Gaedel
we need more poles on the team. that would fill up comiskey!

Bring back Richie Zisk.

Grobber33
12-19-2003, 10:34 AM
[


I am convinced that many people will base a decision to not attend White Sox games in 2004 on this trade if it indeed happens. I wonder if even stronger sentiment for that approach exists in places like Pislen, Cicero, Little Village, and Humboldt Park. [/B][/QUOTE]

Come on Viva! You are one of the best posters on here! You know better than that! Would th entire Caucaison Population be insulted if Paulie were dealt to the Dodgers---or anyoone else?

I think MOST Sox Fans,Hispanic and otherwise would hate to see Maggs dealt away.

Realist
12-19-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I have an idea. Instead of worrying about whether the White Sox have enough Latinos (or whites, or blacks, or Japanese, or British, or Serbian), worry about whether the team is improving.



There's Serbian baseball players? Come to think of it, I bet Ratko Mladic would have been a great choice for manager. I can't imagine too many players not running out ground balls and pop ups for him and he's a good buddy of Wesley Clark and if Clark's elected President, maybe he could ask President Clark to toss out the first pitch on opening day.

Or maybe we can trade Jon Rauch to Sacramento for Peja. I betcha he could give 200+ innings and at least 16 wins.

santo=dorf
12-19-2003, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I actually I know a few Italians upset Tony is gone. Then again one of the requirements to be their favorite player is the last name ending is vowel.

I think I know who you are talking about.
:sopranos

MarqSox
12-19-2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by Realist
There's Serbian baseball players? Come to think of it, I bet Ratko Mladic would have been a great choice for manager. I can't imagine too many players not running out ground balls and pop ups for him and he's a good buddy of Wesley Clark and if Clark's elected President, maybe he could ask President Clark to toss out the first pitch on opening day.

Or maybe we can trade Jon Rauch to Sacramento for Peja. I betcha he could give 200+ innings and at least 16 wins.
I don't think there's many Serb ballplayers ... but that was sort of my point. It's not worth worrying about, because if they can play, they can play.

As for Clark, I'd be happy to debate him with you ... c'mon over to Politically Incorrect and start up a thread.

doublem23
12-21-2003, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by ˇViva Mágglio!
If you think I am basing my desire to keep Mágglio simply because of his race, then you are all dopes!!! Of course, I am basing my opposition to Mágglio being traded upon his baseball considerations. Getting Nomar Garciaparra for him (or those LA pitchers for Garciaparra, for that matter) does not make our team better. I concern myself with how many wins our team has; not how many Latinos are on our team.

If we get rid of Mágglio Ordóńez, it will not lead to more wins.

My point is that the Latino community would feel very hurt if Mágglio is traded. Sure, him being Latino is a major factor in this. However, Mágglio has become beloved among Latinos not solely because he is Latino but because he is a great ballplayer who happens to be Latino. Other Latino ballplayers such as Carlos Lee have not been able to become this popular in the Latino community because they have never acheived the star status in baseball that Ordóńez has.

I think you overvalue the amount of celebrity Magglio has in the Chicago Latino community... Especially when he has to compete locally with the biggest Latino superstar athlete of them all...

:shammy
I beat my wife with only bottles of the finest Caribbean rum.