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Win1ForMe
12-17-2003, 06:22 PM
I don't see it. Why keep Nomar if he's gone after this season? Wasn't that the reason behind trading Ordonez?

Daver
12-17-2003, 06:26 PM
It saves three mil in payroll.

jeremyb1
12-17-2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
I don't see it. Why keep Nomar if he's gone after this season? Wasn't that the reason behind trading Ordonez?

The best I can come up with is that Nomar creates better PR. Maybe that fact will bring more fans to the park and convince JR to convince payroll.

The only other possibility I can come up with is that SS is a much more difficult position to fill with a high calliber offensive player than RF. If Kenny had made this deal and signed Stairs to play RF for 1 million or made a similar signing he'd be a genius. The problem is that assuming Williamson is involved in the deal, we're actually adding payroll leading me to think we're not going to have a good replacment in right. We'll just end up with a weak run producer in right and good run producers at SS and 2B (assuming Jose moves there) instead of having good run producers in RF and at SS with a weak run producer at 2B.

If a good replacement can somehow be found for Maggs on the cheap, we significantly improve our offense I'm just not sure I have enough faith in KW and our budget to believe that could happen.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2003, 06:37 PM
Borchard may replace Mags. It is time to see if he will make it.

SoxOnTop
12-17-2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
I don't see it. Why keep Nomar if he's gone after this season? Wasn't that the reason behind trading Ordonez?

Yes, but it if KW is truly trying to create a new mindset in the organization that we are not a small market team, then to trade away Nomah for for a so-so starter, a good reliever and a prospect would damage his credebility. People have constantly questioned his judgement, but this would make me question his motives. As Jeremy said, finding an excellent SS with pop in his bat is 10 times more difficult than an RF with pop. Heck, we'd probably give away Valentine after this acquisition saving us another $5 mil.

KW is definitly taking a risk with his current approach, but it could have a huge payoff.

Daver
12-17-2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
Heck, we'd probably give away Valentine after this acquisition saving us another $5 mil.



How do you save 5 mil by giving away a player that is not on your forty man roster?


:)

SoxOnTop
12-17-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Daver
How do you save 5 mil by giving away a player that is not on your forty man roster?


:)

come on now.... :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

RedPinStripes
12-17-2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Borchard may replace Mags. It is time to see if he will make it.

Oh , that's comforting. And if he dont work ,we'll see if Jeromy Reed is ready.

How the hell does this team expect to compete with solutions like this?

Dadawg_77
12-17-2003, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Oh , that's comforting. And if he dont work ,we'll see if Jeromy Reed is ready.

How the hell does this team expect to compete with solutions like this?

To win in baseball you must have some of your own prospects playing major parts of the team. If not you will never win it all.

My wet dream on this would be for the Sox to get Vlad but that won't happen.

SoxOnTop
12-17-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
Oh , that's comforting. And if he dont work ,we'll see if Jeromy Reed is ready.

How the hell does this team expect to compete with solutions like this?

Be chill, my man. If CE signed for $7 mil over 2 years with Les Expos, then we can get a more than serviceable RFer on the cheap while the young'uns grow up.

Sign Ellis Burks!!!

-spreadin' it like a seed

RedPinStripes
12-17-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
To win in baseball you must have some of your own prospects playing major parts of the team. If not you will never win it all.

As of right now i have more faith in Reed then Borchard. And that's probably because i havent seen Reed play. I'm just disapointed in Borchard's development. No matter what rookie they put out there, it seems that they're not ready to play this year.

RedPinStripes
12-17-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
Be chill, my man. If CE signed for $7 mil over 2 years with Les Expos, then we can get a more than serviceable RFer on the cheap while the young'uns grow up.

Sign Ellis Burks!!!

-spreadin' it like a seed

Ellis Burks? Do we get a wheel chair with that contract? :)

SluggersAway
12-17-2003, 06:51 PM
Exactly right, dadawg.

SoxOnTop
12-17-2003, 06:53 PM
Yep, and his private nurse. A babe guarenteed to bring in an extra 5K fans per game. Its in the contract. :D:

jeremyb1
12-17-2003, 06:58 PM
I feel as though we'll be fine with Rowand/Borchard/Reed filling centerfield. That's a more difficult position defensively that ussually produces less offense than corner spots. However, at the point we have Rowand/Borchard/Reed and possibly Gload vying for two outfield spots, we're in trouble.

Daver
12-17-2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
As of right now i have more faith in Reed then Borchard. And that's probably because i havent seen Reed play. I'm just disapointed in Borchard's development. No matter what rookie they put out there, it seems that they're not ready to play this year.

Given a choice between Borchard or Reed in right I would put Borchard out there,and let Reed play center.

This team is probably going to fight for third place anyway,so they may as well go young.

SoxOnTop
12-17-2003, 07:01 PM
But seriously. I'm telling you, if you keep my man fresh, he will pay dividends. Herm will keep him flowing. Know this.

Grinder? Check.

Veteran who knows how to play the game and can impart that knowledge to the younger generation? Check.

Cheap? Check and Double Check.

They guy posted a .900+ OPS 4 of the last 5 years and only slid when he got hurt last year. Heck, we can stick him in a DH rotation with Frank if we deal Konerko.


Get aboard, baby!!!!

SluggersAway
12-17-2003, 07:03 PM
This deal makes sense for everybody.

The red sox get great PR and a hot hot commodity.

The Rangers get power and rid themselves of a few past errors in judgement.

The white sox gain from being in the right place at the right time as boston needs to dump a player or two quite badly.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Given a choice between Borchard or Reed in right I would put Borchard out there,and let Reed play center.

This team is probably going to fight for third place anyway,so they may as well go young.

In central? God damn the Sox aren't that bad.

RedPinStripes
12-17-2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Given a choice between Borchard or Reed in right I would put Borchard out there,and let Reed play center.

This team is probably going to fight for third place anyway,so they may as well go young.

I'd rather see one of those 2 in cf then Rowand. And I dont expect Them to contend this year if they have 2 rookies in the OF
. We'll see what the pitching looks like and if Nomar is here before i give a final answer though.

Tragg
12-17-2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
I don't see it. Why keep Nomar if he's gone after this season? Wasn't that the reason behind trading Ordonez?

Does this trade make us a better baseball team? I know he's a ss, but he doesn't have anything close to maggs' stats (nor jose's power, truth be told ) He has decent, not great, plate patience.

I feel about this like I did about Soriano - the BoxSox have been trying to move this guy - I see red sox cheerleaders like gammons getting on the bandwagon - a red flag goes up

I hope it's just a conduit to get the dodgers young pitchers. Otherwise, it seems pretty pointless

Daver
12-17-2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
In central? God damn the Sox aren't that bad.

They have an unproven field manager,not much in the way of starting pitching,no center fielder,no second baseman,and are very close to being over their self imposed budget.

The Twins and the Royals at this point are both better prepared to compete next season.

Win1ForMe
12-17-2003, 10:07 PM
Personally, I fail to get excited over a rent-a-player, especially one who is appearantly unhappy coming to the White Sox. *** is that? Can you imagine the introductory press conference with Nomar lying through his teeth about how happy he is to be in Chicago? I say ship his ass to the Dodgers and get this over with. Invest that money somewhere else.

BTW, how is the Nomar move going to create good PR with Sox fans getting hit over the head with Reinsdorf's inability to keep his star SS past this season (I'm sure Phil Rogers is writing such a column as we speak). Think about it, any good PR they get this winter will be overshadowed by the hit they take when Nomar leaves and we have nothing to show for him in return.

And finally, I seriously doubt the impact Nomar has on attendance.

SoxOnTop
12-17-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by Win1ForMe
Personally, I fail to get excited over a rent-a-player, especially one who is appearantly unhappy coming to the White Sox. *** is that? Can you imagine the introductory press conference with Nomar lying through his teeth about how happy he is to be in Chicago? I say ship his ass to the Dodgers and get this over with. Invest that money somewhere else.

BTW, how is the Nomar move going to create good PR with Sox fans getting hit over the head with Reinsdorf's inability to keep his star SS past this season (I'm sure Phil Rogers is writing such a column as we speak). Think about it, any good PR they get this winter will be overshadowed by the hit they take when Nomar leaves and we have nothing to show for him in return.

And finally, I seriously doubt the impact Nomar has on attendance.

Our financial flexibility is much different next season. We are only tied into:

Buerhle $5.5 Mil
Thomas $8 Mil
Konerko $8 Mil


Not a single other player is guarenteed money next year, so I don't see why we wouldn't be able to afford Nomah.

MRKARNO
12-17-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
Our financial flexibility is much different next season. We are only tied into:

Buerhle $5.5 Mil
Thomas $8 Mil
Konerko $8 Mil


Not a single other player is guarenteed money next year, so I don't see why we wouldn't be able to afford Nomah.

And if ozzie pisses Frank off, then we might only have 13.5 mil on the books. BUt I'd rather see Frank and the 8 mil then the 8 mil in 2005 flexibility

Win1ForMe
12-17-2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
Our financial flexibility is much different next season. We are only tied into:

Buerhle $5.5 Mil
Thomas $8 Mil
Konerko $8 Mil


Not a single other player is guarenteed money next year, so I don't see why we wouldn't be able to afford Nomah.

So by that logic, why not just re-sign Magglio? Nomar will want even more than Maggs and isn't even as good a hitter.

gosox41
12-18-2003, 07:04 AM
Originally posted by SoxOnTop
Our financial flexibility is much different next season. We are only tied into:

Buerhle $5.5 Mil
Thomas $8 Mil
Konerko $8 Mil


Not a single other player is guarenteed money next year, so I don't see why we wouldn't be able to afford Nomah.

Who says Nomar wants to stay here? He may even take a discount to play out west.

Bob

cornball
12-18-2003, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Daver
They have an unproven field manager,not much in the way of starting pitching,no center fielder,no second baseman,and are very close to being over their self imposed budget.

The Twins and the Royals at this point are both better prepared to compete next season.

We should know more by the end of the week. If this all comes down, you may have a completely different team. Keep the faith for a little while longer...anyway.