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View Full Version : Any comfort with Minor league pitchers on the 2004 25-man roster?


MRKARNO
12-17-2003, 06:22 PM
Well to what extent would you be with going into 2004 with unproven minor league pitchers on our roster. Just one or two bullpen arms? Maybe our 5th and/or 4th starter(s)? None at all?

And whom would you be comfortable? Cotts? Rauch? Others?

Lip Man 1
12-18-2003, 01:36 AM
Comfortable? You're joking right?????

Lip

princek
12-18-2003, 02:26 AM
we wont have to worry about being comfortable with Cotts if the Nomar deal goes thru, hes included in the deal supposedly going to Texas on the backend, this deal gets worse and worse every time i check up on it

MRKARNO
12-18-2003, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Comfortable? You're joking right?????

Lip

So you're saying you have no faith in any of our prospects? None?

MisterB
12-18-2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
So you're saying you have no faith in any of our prospects? None?

I think Lip has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't. Search the board for the phrase "can't miss kids" and see for yourself.

Jerko
12-18-2003, 09:55 AM
They're not even our can't miss kids anymore. Somebody else scouted half of these guys with all the trades we've been making lately. Hey, maybe there IS hope!

Brian26
12-18-2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Well to what extent would you be with going into 2004 with unproven minor league pitchers on our roster. Just one or two bullpen arms? Maybe our 5th and/or 4th starter(s)? None at all?

And whom would you be comfortable? Cotts? Rauch? Others?

I'd have to imagine Honel should be close to ready by next year.

SoxxoS
12-18-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I'd have to imagine Honel should be close to ready by next year.

He is the one guy I have confidence with, and I believe is far and away our #1 pitching prospect. I think he has a much greater chance of success than Cotts.

lowesox
12-18-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
He is the one guy I have confidence with, and I believe is far and away our #1 pitching prospect. I think he has a much greater chance of success than Cotts.

True but Cotts looks like he could be good too. Williams would be stupid to trade Cotts. There's no way you need to include one of your top prospects when you are trading your franchise player.

Lip Man 1
12-18-2003, 01:46 PM
Karno:

No Look at the Sox history with young pitchers the past ten years and you'll get your answer especially compared to the success of other teams (i.e. Oakland, Houston, Seattle...)

By the way, I just read last week where another "can't miss kid" pitcher named David West (?) who went to high school in Monroe, Louisiana where I worked and was a 2nd round draft pick a few years ago, quit the Sox and is now a 24 year old linebacker for LSU.

Lip

MRKARNO
12-18-2003, 03:31 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Karno:

No Look at the Sox history with young pitchers the past ten years and you'll get your answer especially compared to the success of other teams (i.e. Oakland, Houston, Seattle...)

By the way, I just read last week where another "can't miss kid" pitcher named David West (?) who went to high school in Monroe, Louisiana where I worked and was a 2nd round draft pick a few years ago, quit the Sox and is now a 24 year old linebacker for LSU.

Lip

Yeah but supposedly there are a lot of pitchers that can help the sox now. One of them has gotta be at least the next Jon Garland, if not the next Mark Buehrle

soxfan26
12-18-2003, 03:35 PM
Big suprise there Lip hates the White Sox player development system also!

KingXerxes
12-18-2003, 03:38 PM
I'll tell you when I start believing that some kid has the potential of winning twenty games in the major leagues - It's when he's already got 19 wins and is leading 7 - 0 in the eighth inning against Detroit..

Remember Jason Bere? He was going to set the world on fire - he even started off great then fizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Scott Ruffcorn anyone? Radinsky? Howry? - Forget it, I'm not buying into potential anymore.

It's the same with all pitchers - potential isn't worth a damn.

hold2dibber
12-18-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Karno:

No Look at the Sox history with young pitchers the past ten years and you'll get your answer especially compared to the success of other teams (i.e. Oakland, Houston, Seattle...)

By the way, I just read last week where another "can't miss kid" pitcher named David West (?) who went to high school in Monroe, Louisiana where I worked and was a 2nd round draft pick a few years ago, quit the Sox and is now a 24 year old linebacker for LSU.

Lip

I think it's Brian West, and I don't think many people ever considered him to be "can't miss" - he was a middling prospect, IIRC.

hold2dibber
12-18-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
Well to what extent would you be with going into 2004 with unproven minor league pitchers on our roster. Just one or two bullpen arms? Maybe our 5th and/or 4th starter(s)? None at all?

And whom would you be comfortable? Cotts? Rauch? Others?

I think it's time to see what Rauch can do. I would prefer to have him in the bullpen as a long relief guy, but I could live with him as the no. 5 starter if the Sox pick up a top of the rotation guy like Ponson, Maddux or Millwood. If, instead, they pick up a guy like Perez or Garcia (a middle of the rotation guy), I'd prefer to have someone more established at the back end of the rotation (although my top two choices, Brian Anderson and Pat Hentgen, are already off the market).

As to the other guys - Cotts needs more time in the minors to develop consistent mechanics. I don't know enough about Pachecho to say either way. I would like to see Ginter in the "Rick White" role in the bullplen. The only other guy I might consider would be Munoz as another lefty in the pen to take Schoenweis's spot (I'm assuming the Sox will non-tender him).

hold2dibber
12-18-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Brian26
I'd have to imagine Honel should be close to ready by next year.

I believe Honel has pitched one game above the A level. He's only 2 years removed from high school. I don't want to see him in Chicago before the second half of 2005 (unless he absolutely dominates at AA, in which case I'd give him a September call up this year).

MRKARNO
12-18-2003, 04:17 PM
And who knows? We might have an Eric Gagne in Danny Wright. We also might have a really bad pitcher, but you dont know what he'll do until he's coming out of left field in the middle of the game

Daver
12-18-2003, 05:29 PM
I would be very surprised if Pacheco does not compete for a spot in the rotation next spring.

MRKARNO
12-18-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by Daver
I would be very surprised if Pacheco does not compete for a spot in the rotation next spring.

What can you tell us about him? His numbers were very good in AA (12-2 2.56 ERA) and I was wondering how good he could be, but not much is being spoken or written about him

And I was looking at the stats and I noticed something: Ryan Meaux's stats were very good

In 38 IP, he had 29 K's and a grand total of 3 walks. His WHIP was 1.11. Could he be in the Sox bullpen next year?

SoxxoS
12-18-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
And who knows? We might have an Eric Gagne in Danny Wright. We also might have a really bad pitcher, but you dont know what he'll do until he's coming out of left field in the middle of the game

Is today April fools?

I have seen Danny Wright pitch. I have seen Eric Gagne pitch. The difference is night and day.

Danny Wright may be a decent middle reliever, but nothing more. He doesn't have the 97 mph heater. He doesn't have that unreal changeup. He doesn't have the knee buckling curve. And MOST important, he doesn't have the control of an Eric Gagne. Danny Wright will NEVER be a dominant pitcher in the majors. A serviceable one...maybe. Eric Gagne always had the stuff, but couldn't harness it until he moved to closer. Danny Wright doesn't have the "Gagne" stuff and the stuff he has he can't harness it.

Daver
12-18-2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
What can you tell us about him? His numbers were very good in AA (12-2 2.56 ERA) and I was wondering how good he could be, but not much is being spoken or written about him

And I was looking at the stats and I noticed something: Ryan Meaux's stats were very good

In 38 IP, he had 29 K's and a grand total of 3 walks. His WHIP was 1.11. Could he be in the Sox bullpen next year?


This is what I wrote on Pacheco when Randar and I did our top ten list earlier this year.

Pacheco, acquired last season from the Colorado Rockies in return for Sandy Alomar, was not 100% percent healthy and was not utilized well in the Rockies system. With the Birmingham Barons this season he was converted back to a starter and developed a change up to compliment his live fastball and sharp slider, and turned out to be one of the best on their staff, leading the team in innings pitched, starts, and wins. Pacheco is not an overpowering type pitcher, he is not going to reach back and power the ball past anyone, he is a control pitcher that forces a lot of ground balls, evidenced by the fact that he gave up five HRís all season long, though this is helped somewhat by the fact that the Barons play in a huge ballpark.

Pacheco will probably never develop into a staff ace, but his ability to simply get guys out will make him an effective middle of the rotation type starter. He is not the type to put up gaudy strikeout numbers, but his walk to strikeout ratio is better than 2-1, which is something you look for in a young pitcher. This season at Birmingham he walked 51 batters while striking out 116.

It would not be surprising to see him invited to spring training with the big club in 2004 to compete for a spot in the rotation, depending on what happens this offseason, it is not uncommon for a pitcher to go straight from AA to the big leagues, if not he will probably anchor the rotation in Charlotte in 2004
You can veiw the entire list here. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=3&id=2354)

Ryan Meaux benefited greatly from repeating a season in A ball,and is currently pitching in winter ball,I do not have his current stats in front of me however.I doubt you will see him in the big leagues anytime in the near future however.

rdivaldi
12-18-2003, 06:52 PM
Of all the guys Rauch is the man that should be given the shot. He dominated AAA for the last month or 2, and seems to be fully healed from his surgery.

I wouldn't get excited over Pacheco. A 24 year old pitching in a large ballpark in AA sounds a lot like Scott Eyre. Pay attention to how old guys are and you'll get burned a lot less.