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FJA
12-17-2003, 02:44 PM
Maggs and two pitching prospects to BoSox for Nomar, Williamson and one top pitching prospect.

Possibly, then, Nomar and maybe Williamson to L.A. for Perez and Mota.

Seattle's also interested in Valentin ...

delben91
12-17-2003, 02:46 PM
All these conflicting reports......

Time for a cold one to ease the nerves...

:gulp:

CHISOXFAN13
12-17-2003, 02:46 PM
Anyone familar with who Boston's top pitching prospect is?

Tekijawa
12-17-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Anyone familar with who Boston's top pitching prospect is?

Yeah he was traded to the Diamondbacks about three weeks ago!

Casey Fossum... I don't know what else they have

jeremyb1
12-17-2003, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Anyone familar with who Boston's top pitching prospect is?

Did ESPN report anything about how far along the deal is and at what time it should be official?

Baby Fisk
12-17-2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by FJA
Maggs and two pitching prospects to BoSox for Nomar, Williamson and one top pitching prospect.

Why are we suddenly unloading multiple pitching prospects?

joecrede
12-17-2003, 02:48 PM
Who are the Red Sox pitching prospects? Any word they could get Kim instead of Williamson?

Then deal Nomar for Mota, Jackson, and Miller.

PaulDrake
12-17-2003, 02:49 PM
If this happens I'm going to do some serious soul searching. 40+ years is a along time but I may have reached my limit. Perez, Mota and "prospect" for Maggs and two "prospects". Perez and Mota are ever so forgettable. If he stays healthy Maggs will be in the HOF some day. I'm disappointed so many here are perfectly willing to dump Maggs on the sidewalk like the weekly trash for the likes of this. I don't know if I want to be Uncle Jerrys chump any longer. This is not good. :angry:

OAK LAWN SOX FAN
12-17-2003, 02:49 PM
If they make the original trade only to ship Garciaparra to L.A. for a 4th starter and a set up man I will be calling my ticket rep to see if it is too late to get a refund on my playoff money instead of renewing .

FJA
12-17-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Did ESPN report anything about how far along the deal is and at what time it should be official?

Nothing too specific ... they did say what has already been said in other threads, that it could become official this afternoon if Texas and Boston approve the union-restructured contract.

Daver
12-17-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by OAK LAWN SOX FAN
If they make the original trade only to ship Garciaparra to L.A. for a 4th starter and a set up man I will be calling my ticket rep to see if it is too late to get a refund on my playoff money instead of renewing .

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

jeremyb1
12-17-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Who are the Red Sox pitching prospects? Any word they could get Kim instead of Williamson?

Then deal Nomar for Mota, Jackson, and Miller.

Hehe. I don't think there's any player in baseball L.A. would include both Jackson and Miller in a deal for. Supposedly they both were and still may be considered untouchable.

hold2dibber
12-17-2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by FJA
Possibly, then, Nomar and maybe Williamson to L.A. for Perez and Mota.

If the Sox don't keep Williamson (and either the pitching prospect from the Red Sox or one of the Dodgers top pitching prospects), I'll be steamed. Maggs for just Perez and Mota is not enough.

chosk8
12-17-2003, 02:51 PM
Manny Delcarmen, rhp
Billy Simon, rhp
Jon Lester, lhp
Jorge de la Rosa, lhp
Josh Thigpen, rhp

jeremyb1
12-17-2003, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by OAK LAWN SOX FAN
If they make the original trade only to ship Garciaparra to L.A. for a 4th starter and a set up man I will be calling my ticket rep to see if it is too late to get a refund on my playoff money instead of renewing .

And 8 million in payroll flexibility. I'd wait to see what they do with that money before you make any decisions.

Bobby Thigpen
12-17-2003, 02:53 PM
Josh Thigpen,

That's a hell of a good baseball name!! :smile:

Randar68
12-17-2003, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
And 8 million in payroll flexibility. I'd wait to see what they do with that money before you make any decisions.

The Boston Prospect may be someone more along the lines of Kevin Youkilis or Hanley Ramirez. What's the use having SS prospects when A-Rod is ther for another, what, 6 years?

jeremyb1
12-17-2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by hold2dibber
If the Sox don't keep Williamson (and either the pitching prospect from the Red Sox or one of the Dodgers top pitching prospects), I'll be steamed. Maggs for just Perez and Mota is not enough.

I agree at least as far as Williamson goes. We need two elite relievers to get our pen anywhere near respectable.

Nick@Nite
12-17-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by CHISOXFAN13
Anyone familiar with who Boston's top pitching prospect is?

If it's the Babe, then we're in business.

anewman35
12-17-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
I'm disappointed so many here are perfectly willing to dump Maggs on the sidewalk like the weekly trash for the likes of this. I don't know if I want to be Uncle Jerrys chump any longer. This is not good. :angry:

In a year, unless he's willing to take a pay cut (not likely) or our payroll goes way up (not likely), he's gone anyway. Why not get something for him?

PaulDrake
12-17-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
In a year, unless he's willing to take a pay cut (not likely) or our payroll goes way up (not likely), he's gone anyway. Why not get something for him? Don't people understand that there is no end to this? It means you can only keep players until they command real money. It will be 45 years without a pennant and 87 years without a World Series championship this coming baseball season. If you can't afford to keep your stars then sell or contract the team. Don't hold your breath trying to catch lightning in a bottle like the Marlins did this year.

MarqSox
12-17-2003, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
Don't hold your breath trying to catch lightning in a bottle like the Marlins did this year.
Well, if it weren't for some memorable choke jobs, the A's would have put together a dynasty of cheap teams. I mean, ultimately, you're right ... but the Marlins and A's prove that it can be done.

jabrch
12-17-2003, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
Don't people understand that there is no end to this? It means you can only keep players until they command real money. It will be 45 years without a pennant and 87 years without a World Series championship this coming baseball season. If you can't afford to keep your stars then sell or contract the team. Don't hold your breath trying to catch lightning in a bottle like the Marlins did this year.

Paul, the thing is, that is our reality right now. Until something changes, we have to maximize return on whatever assets we have. They sat down with Maggs and he said he wanted 15mm per for 5 years. I just can't blame JR and KW for not doing that. It would have placated the fans - but buried the franchise the same way the A-Rod deal did to Texas.

Give me Nomar and Williamson for the same price as Magglio and I will take my chances with Burks or Juan Gone in RF/DH along with Reed/Borchard at the other spot. (Dump Konerko in the Maggs deal if you have to to fund the OF)

Nobody wants to lose Magglio - nobody does. But we want the best possible team on the field next year. And if Magglio wasn't willing to sign a long term deal to stay, then he is not a part of the future of this franchise.

Its the same thing Boston is doing with Nomar. He told them he wanted 6/84. They said no - he said he'd wait until a FA and look at LA/ANA. So they moved on to get a different option.

It sucks that this is so much a business, but it is.

soxwon
12-17-2003, 08:52 PM
damn it if we trade nomar to LA ill freak
dont trade him please, trade valentin for garcia
keep nomar and williamson.
nomar will lead us to the pennant.

joecrede
12-17-2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
Don't people understand that there is no end to this? It means you can only keep players until they command real money. It will be 45 years without a pennant and 87 years without a World Series championship this coming baseball season. If you can't afford to keep your stars then sell or contract the team. Don't hold your breath trying to catch lightning in a bottle like the Marlins did this year.

What teams can afford to keep their stars? Yankees, Red Sox? And I do take comfort that the Sox are producing stars (albeit not enough of them).

spataro51
12-17-2003, 09:06 PM
Jabrch,

I agree with you. If maggs isn't willing to sign with us after next year for a reasonable price, and we know that we cannot keep him. Well what is the point of letting him stay here for this year. We have a chance to make the team better, heck we can get one of the best defensive and offensive shortstops in the game and also we get a decent reliever/closer also. 2 for the price of 1.

Maggs was also one of my favorites, he will be missed, but this team did nothing since this core has been together except a playoff appearence in 2000 that they were swept in. I wouldnt' even count 2000 because they didn't even put up a fight against seattle. Its time for a change, and sometimes you have to trade the best player to give you a chance to do something. you have to try new game plans because the old plan keeps on failing.

LauraJ14
12-17-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by OAK LAWN SOX FAN
If they make the original trade only to ship Garciaparra to L.A. for a 4th starter and a set up man I will be calling my ticket rep to see if it is too late to get a refund on my playoff money instead of renewing .

I just sent my ticket rep an email asking if the I can get a refund
on my ticket deposit for next year. If Maggs is gone for Perez and Williamson, then I am gone also.

SluggersAway
12-17-2003, 10:34 PM
a little drastic laura, maybe dont ya think?

anewman35
12-17-2003, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
I just sent my ticket rep an email asking if the I can get a refund
on my ticket deposit for next year. If Maggs is gone for Perez and Williamson, then I am gone also.

Sigh, so much for the theory that our fans are better than Cub fans.

joecrede
12-17-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
If Maggs is gone for Perez and Williamson, then I am gone also.

Your decision, but why?

MarqSox
12-17-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
Sigh, so much for the theory that our fans are better than Cub fans.
Indeed.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Your decision, but why?

Because would you buy season tickets for a team that pulled that move?

Look she is making her choice on the fact that deal would hurt the sox and wouldn't add any value to the on field product. Since the on field product is lessen considerably and the price went up, I would leave to, well I already have but if I hadn't I would be gone.

Dadawg_77
12-17-2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
Sigh, so much for the theory that our fans are better than Cub fans.

I think this goes to show how we are better. If the Sox put a suck ass team out there, we will not come.

anewman35
12-17-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Because would you buy season tickets for a team that pulled that move?

Look she is making her choice on the fact that deal would hurt the sox and wouldn't add any value to the on field product. Since the on field product is lessen considerably and the price went up, I would leave to, well I already have but if I hadn't I would be gone.

Sure I would. Well, ok, if they deal really was JUST Williamson and Perez, maybe not. But it wouldn;'t be, we'd either keep Nomar or we'd get a couple other good pitchers from the Dodgers, and maybe have enough for Ponson or Garcia. We could sign a cheap, decent right fielder, trade Valentin for Guillen (to play second), and we've greatly improved our team. Believe me, I love Mags and would hate to lose him, but I'd much rather lose him this way than to have him become a free agent the day after the season and go to Baltimore or Boston or LA, just leaving us with a draft pick.

MarqSox
12-17-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
I think this goes to show how we are better. If the Sox put a suck ass team out there, we will not come.
I think much of the conflict comes from different interpretations of what this trade would do for the club. Some people, such as you and laura, view the trade as making the team worse. Many of us, however, see the trade as improving the team but removing some star quality ... but I could give a rip about star quality if we play in October.

gosox41
12-17-2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
I just sent my ticket rep an email asking if the I can get a refund
on my ticket deposit for next year. If Maggs is gone for Perez and Williamson, then I am gone also.

I repsect your decision, Laura. I may not agree but at least you are exercising your right as a consumer to not support what you consider an inferior product. You're hurting the Sox where it hurts most and that's the pocketbook. This is one effective way consumers can force change, whether they intend to or not.

Bob

joecrede
12-17-2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
Because would you buy season tickets for a team that pulled that move?

If you don't faith in White Sox management to put a competitive team on the field why become a season ticketholders in the first place?

Certainly, we can lose faith in management based on their actions, but I don't think you lose faith in them for dealing Maggs. In fact, the easiest thing for them to do would be to keep Maggs who's a fan favorite. I think their willigness to deal Maggs and take a PR hit shows you just how badly they want to win.

We all can agree or disagree on what will improve the team, but it's almost like people don't believe the Sox are even attempting to put together a contending team.

Look she is making her choice on the fact that deal would hurt the sox and wouldn't add any value to the on field product. Since the on field product is lessen considerably and the price went up, I would leave to, well I already have but if I hadn't I would be gone. [/B]

That is her decision and it's a perfectly reasonable one. There's a school of thought that the Sox will be a better team without Maggs though. And it is about the team not the individual player.

Dadawg_77
12-18-2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by MarqSox
I think much of the conflict comes from different interpretations of what this trade would do for the club. Some people, such as you and laura, view the trade as making the team worse. Many of us, however, see the trade as improving the team but removing some star quality ... but I could give a rip about star quality if we play in October.

I never said I thought it was a bad trade. If we keep Nomar I like it but if it turns out to be Mags gone and Perez and Williamson added, it is a horrible deal. People here are way to high on Perez. I was defending her right to have choice of whether or not to renew her tickets. The implied claim she was a bad fan based on post was going to far.

I don't trust White Sox management to improve this team. One of the reasons I will not renew my tickets. If they make a bad move with Mags, it is either Kenny getting out foxed again or they are cutting cost. I wouldn't really know which one since both are highly probable.

kraut83
12-18-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by anewman35
I love Mags and would hate to lose him, but I'd much rather lose him this way than to have him become a free agent the day after the season and go to Baltimore or Boston or LA, just leaving us with a draft pick.

Amen! As much as I want Maggs to be in right this year, and sign a nice extension, It's not happening. There is no way in hell we are going to be able to get this much for him even at the trade deadline. I could live with Borchard/Reed/Mid-Level FA in right if that means beefing up the rotation and bullpen.