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otis
12-17-2003, 12:09 PM
Suddenly, I have some credibility.


In the game of hot potato, Kenny has the spud in his hand for the next 24 hours. Despite published reports, KW is not necessarily done dealing. The Ordonez for Nomar & Williamson has been agreed on pending the Arod trade. Nothing new there. It is a three team trade as of now, but before the three team trade is finalized KW needs to explore the possibility of expanding it to a four team trade. According to my source, (Who has ben dead on so far) KW's options are as follows:

1. Keep the trade as is.
2. Trade Nomar to LA, (Supposedly the Tribune is accurate)
3. Trade other players from the Sox (Konerko, Koch, Valentine) to eliminate salary and receive more players. The Sox are not getting value for Koch, so he is eliminated from the equation. The most interesting possibility is trading Valentin to the Rangers, Konerko to the Dodgers, and upping the level of prospects to the Red Sox for Johnny Damon and Odalis Perez. With Valentin to the Rangers, the Red Sox would not need to compensate Texas as much.



HAIL! HAIL! KING OTIS

bestkosher
12-17-2003, 12:11 PM
if your source is the trib you are dead...wrong

Palehose13
12-17-2003, 12:12 PM
Otis...don't leave!!!!

If Valentin is dealt and it is made a 3-4 team trade, will Nomar stay with the White Sox???

Thanks Otis, I always believed (or at least hoped...)

john2499
12-17-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by bestkosher
if your source is the trib you are dead...wrong

Read his previous posts and you will know his is not the Trib.

Iwritecode
12-17-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by otis
Suddenly, I have some credibility.


In the game of hot potato, Kenny has the spud in his hand for the next 24 hours. Despite published reports, KW is not necessarily done dealing. The Ordonez for Nomar & Williamson has been agreed on pending the Arod trade. Nothing new there. It is a three team trade as of now, but before the three team trade is finalized KW needs to explore the possibility of expanding it to a four team trade. According to my source, (Who has ben dead on so far) KW's options are as follows:

1. Keep the trade as is.
2. Trade Nomar to LA, (Supposedly the Tribune is accurate)
3. Trade other players from the Sox (Konerko, Koch, Valentine) to eliminate salary and receive more players. The Sox are not getting value for Koch, so he is eliminated from the equation. The most interesting possibility is trading Valentin to the Rangers, Konerko to the Dodgers, and upping the level of prospects to the Red Sox for Johnny Damon and Odalis Perez. With Valentin to the Rangers, the Red Sox would not need to compensate Texas as much.



HAIL! HAIL! KING OTIS

Yep. Good job on breaking the story extremely early. :gulp:

BTW, I like #3...

Tekijawa
12-17-2003, 12:17 PM
I could live with three! we'd be pretty solid and If I'm not mistaken have a little more financial freedome if #3 wen't down!

siugrad25
12-17-2003, 12:17 PM
I shouldn't keep my hopes up this high for so long... Obviously trading Valentine and keeping Nomar would be great and if Konerko can be traded for a pitcher from LA (Perez, Mota, other) it would be even better. Again, I'm cautiously optimistic and thank you Otis for the info, it's much appreciated.

miker
12-17-2003, 12:19 PM
The deailing, I can't keep up with it all. :?:

So if this latest rumor happens, what is our lineup, rotation and bullpen?

jabrch
12-17-2003, 12:20 PM
You d'man Otis! Hey Cheeses, you ought to spend more time hanging with Otis and his buddies. :-)

jabrch
12-17-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by miker
The deailing, I can't keep up with it all. :?:

So if this latest rumor happens, what is our lineup, rotation and bullpen?

My best case scenario Miker

OF/DH
Reed/Borchard
Juan Gonzalez
Crash (yuck - but no options unless Damon ends up in our laps)
Lee

IF
Frank
C. Guillen (Not O. Guillen)
Nomar
Crede

Cs
Olivo/Sandy

Rotation
MB
EL
JG
Freddy Garcia
Odalis Perez

Pen
Koch
Marte
Williamson
Mota
+++

I can live with that...certainly the best in the AL Central


(EDIT: Wait a sec....I dont think that works...how did I get us Perez and Mota without trading Nomar? I guess I can't keep up either!)

lowesox
12-17-2003, 12:26 PM
Why would we trade Nomar? Is the plan to trade for him just so that we can say that we got a franchise player in return only to ship him away for prospects?

Some of this stuff sounds good. Some of it sounds not so good.

miker
12-17-2003, 12:30 PM
Thanks. Although it seems a little premature filling in the holes with Garcia, Gonzalez and Guillen (not Ozzie - that was funny!)

Nothing personal, jabrch, but other than good numbers and that he might come relatively cheaply, what's the infatuation with Juan Gonzalez?

The Big Squirt
12-17-2003, 12:32 PM
So if this all goes down...could the following happen?

This is the way I see it all going down

1. Arod deal goes down
2. Sox trade Maggs for Nomar and Williamson
3. Sox trade Valentin and prospects (or Konerko) to Seattle for Guillen and Garcia
5. Sox sign Ponson and Juan Gonzalez
6. Sox sign a RH middle reliver and 4th outfielder
7. Sox trade for Everett back

SO...line up and rotation

2b Guillen
SS Nomar
1B Frank
RF Juan Gone
DH Everett
LF Lee
CF Rowand
3B Crede
C Olivo

Rotation

Burhle
Ponson
Garcia
Loiaza
Garland

EDIT: Per request of many I have idicated that this is ALL wishful thinking and probably never going to happen!!!

jabrch
12-17-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by miker
Thanks. Although it seems a little premature filling in the holes with Garcia, Gonzalez and Guillen (not Ozzie - that was funny!)

Nothing personal, jabrch, but other than good numbers and that he might come relatively cheaply, what's the infatuation with Juan Gonzalez?

That's exactly it Miker....Good numbers and he is cheap. I wish we could bid on Vlad, but we can't. As far as available RFs go, he is the one with the most upside (.300, 40, 100, 125) who would be most affordable (5mm? with incentives to go higher?)

Look, I'd love to keep Maggs, but that isn't happening. If we are going to move him, I want to replace the production in RF with a similar type guy. I am no so in love with Juan Gonzalez that I am not open to other options - there just aren't too many out there right now. I would have liked to bring Cameron back home - but that isn't happening.

Seriously, who else do you want in RF/DH. I can see counting on Reed/Borchard for one of those spots, but not both.

kittle42
12-17-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by The Big Squirt
So if this all goes down...could the following happen?

This is the way I see it all going down

1. Arod deal goes down
2. Sox trade Maggs for Nomar and Williamson
3. Sox trade Valentin and prospects (or Konerko) to Seattle for Guillen and Garcia
5. Sox sign Ponson and Juan Gonzalez
6. Sox sign a RH middle reliver and 4th outfielder
7. Sox trade for Everett back


You are a funny man.

Rocky Soprano
12-17-2003, 12:37 PM
If we trade Konerko away, then who would back-up Frank at 1st?

Or do we expect Frank to play the entire year at 1st?

john2499
12-17-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Why would we trade Nomar? Is the plan to trade for him just so that we can say that we got a franchise player in return only to ship him away for prospects?

Some of this stuff sounds good. Some of it sounds not so good.

I agree, why even get involved with boston, if we are going to trade Nomar ? Just to land Williamson ? Why wouldn't we just send Mags to the Dodgers, (which is a lousy deal). We trade our best player, for prospects, (to replenish the prospects we traded over the summer ?).

Randar68
12-17-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by The Big Squirt
6. Sox sign a RH middle reliver and 4th outfielder


We already have a 4th OF'er... His name is Aaron Rowand. Damon sounds good to me.

The Big Squirt
12-17-2003, 12:37 PM
Sorry...should have posted it in alternating pink and teal letters

jabrch
12-17-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by The Big Squirt
So if this all goes down...could the following happen?

This is the way I see it all going down

1. Arod deal goes down
2. Sox trade Maggs for Nomar and Williamson
3. Sox trade Valentin and prospects (or Konerko) to Seattle for Guillen and Garcia
5. Sox sign Ponson and Juan Gonzalez
6. Sox sign a RH middle reliver and 4th outfielder
7. Sox trade for Everett back

SO...line up and rotation

2b Guillen
SS Nomar
1B Frank
RF Juan Gone
DH Everett
LF Lee
CF Rowand
3B Crede
C Olivo

Rotation

Burhle
Ponson
Garcia
Loiaza
Garland

I like that...now if we could just find a way to get Boston to add Konerko for Damon into the Nomar deal, we would be able to have Crash as a 4th OF and Damon in CF and leadoff.

Damon
Lee
Frank
Gonzalez
Nomar
Everett
Guillen
Crede
Olivo/Sandy

bobj4400
12-17-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by The Big Squirt
So if this all goes down...could the following happen?

This is the way I see it all going down

1. Arod deal goes down
2. Sox trade Maggs for Nomar and Williamson
3. Sox trade Valentin and prospects (or Konerko) to Seattle for Guillen and Garcia
5. Sox sign Ponson and Juan Gonzalez
6. Sox sign a RH middle reliver and 4th outfielder
7. Sox trade for Everett back

SO...line up and rotation

2b Guillen
SS Nomar
1B Frank
RF Juan Gone
DH Everett
LF Lee
CF Rowand
3B Crede
C Olivo

Rotation

Burhle
Ponson
Garcia
Loiaza
Garland

Sure this isnt supposed to be in pink?

Hangar18
12-17-2003, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by lowesox
Why would we trade Nomar? Is the plan to trade for him just so that we can say that we got a franchise player in return only to ship him away for prospects?

Some of this stuff sounds good. Some of it sounds not so good.

This IS what I think is going to Eventually Happen. Were going to ship Nomar to LA and get some good prospects, and thus beginning the Kids Can Play PT 2 all over again. I posted in another thread how the SOX arent Proactive, but exist merely to help other teams get to the Playoffs....... We Make Deals
based on Economics, and thats NEVER a way to get to the
World Series

voodoochile
12-17-2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by Rocky Soprano
If we trade Konerko away, then who would back-up Frank at 1st?

Or do we expect Frank to play the entire year at 1st?

Um how worrisome is that actually? I mean a BU 1B? Can Everett play 1B a little? If not, is there some aging DH/1B type who might be had on the cheap?

This seems like a minor issue, of course if all of this comes true, I will be shocked.

bestkosher
12-17-2003, 12:43 PM
if PK is gone, (and yes i will miss him) ross gload will most likely be promted from the minors to fill his spot

cheeses_h_rice
12-17-2003, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
You d'man Otis! Hey Cheeses, you ought to spend more time hanging with Otis and his buddies. :-)

I deserve that.

:)

miker
12-17-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Seriously, who else do you want in RF/DH. I can see counting on Reed/Borchard for one of those spots, but not both.

They aren't ready, unless ALL of these speculative deals fall through and we lapse into (permanent) rebuilding mode.

I just can't get past this perception of mine that Gonzalez has some baggage and the problem with baggage is sometimes you get lucky and get a productive Carl Everett and other times you get Jaime Navarro and Royce Clayton.

If we can sign him and he helps the Sox win, I'm all for it.

Jerko
12-17-2003, 12:46 PM
You know what, I think I'll just wait until everything (if anything) goes down because I am seeing like 30 new names on this team and they may not even make one move. Now we're getting Damon, Juan Gonzalez, Nomar, Perez, Mota, LA's best prospects, Ponson, Garcia, Guillen, Williamson, Everett, Hussein, The Pope, Tony Soprano, not to mention the returns of Man Soo Lee, Papi Hidalgo, and maybe even JM coming back as a consultant with Bevington and Paciorek the new broadcast team.

jabrch
12-17-2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by miker
They aren't ready, unless ALL of these speculative deals fall through and we lapse into (permanent) rebuilding mode.

I just can't get past this perception of mine that Gonzalez has some baggage and the problem with baggage is sometimes you get lucky and get a productive Carl Everett and other times you get Jaime Navarro and Royce Clayton.

If we can sign him and he helps the Sox win, I'm all for it.

Ooooohhh...He said the J word. :jaime

Foulke You
12-17-2003, 12:50 PM
I tend to think the White Sox will keep Garciaparra. They need to take the sting away from losing Maggs and at the same time make it look like they are trying to win. It may end up being a PR decision to keep him unless KW gets "overwhelmed" for a trade.

Tekijawa
12-17-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Jerko
You know what, I think I'll just wait until everything (if anything) goes down because I am seeing like 30 new names on this team and they may not even make one move. Now we're getting Damon, ... Papi Hidalgo


If we get Papi back we go to the series, no questions asked!

Hokiesox
12-17-2003, 12:51 PM
Fairy tales can come true/ It can happen to you....

The baseball gods would have to make a monumental shift from the north side to the south side for ALL of this to happen.

CHISOXFAN13
12-17-2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by john2499
I agree, why even get involved with boston, if we are going to trade Nomar ? Just to land Williamson ? Why wouldn't we just send Mags to the Dodgers, (which is a lousy deal). We trade our best player, for prospects, (to replenish the prospects we traded over the summer ?).

Because the Dodgers want Normar more than Maggs. It's that simple.

Tekijawa
12-17-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Foulke You
I tend to think the White Sox will keep Garciaparra. They need to take the sting away from losing Maggs and at the same time make it look like they are trying to win. It may end up being a PR decision to keep him unless KW gets "overwhelmed" for a trade.

I've seen KW get overwhelmed before... I don't think that would be good for Sox fans at all... are we even sure that we're trading for the right Garcipara?

LauraJ14
12-17-2003, 12:55 PM
If we trade Maggs and all we end up with is Scott Williamson and Odalis Perez, and some prospects then my many years as a White Sox fan are over. Because it tells me that this team is not serious about winning a championship. Just give our best player to Boston and help them make the playoffs! This s**cks!!!

Hangar18
12-17-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
If we trade Maggs and all we end up with is Scott Williamson and Odalis Perez, and some prospects then my many years as a White Sox fan are over. Because it tells me that this team is not serious about winning a championship. Just give our best player to Boston and help them make the playoffs! This s**cks!!!

Im having serious Reservations about this whole thing. Why are we helping Boston? Because the SOX Handcuffed themselves with this NONSENSE about keeping a 59 Million Payroll. If the Payroll were Upped to something Like 80Mill, we'd be talking about filling a couple of the Holes we have and How to STACK OURSELVES UP against the October Teams ....... Instead,
were perpetually just HELPING THE REDSOX and DODGERS

No Thanks. Im tired of this already.

Frank the Tank
12-17-2003, 01:06 PM
I hope the Nomar/Mags deal goes down. However, I will be very upset if they ship Nomar to LA for Perez and some prospects. Sure the prospects might be good, but as soon as they develop they will be out the door like Magglio. I would rather "rent" players on a yearly basis than to develop rookies for three years and ship them out as soon as they are productive. If JR would be willing to increase his payroll just $10 MM we could have a serious contender next year.

Johnny Popular
12-17-2003, 01:08 PM
This info was posted today at espn.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1688365

Daver
12-17-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Johnny Popular
This info was posted today at espn.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1688365

Hey welcome aboard! :redneck

chisox06
12-17-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
This IS what I think is going to Eventually Happen. Were going to ship Nomar to LA and get some good prospects, and thus beginning the Kids Can Play PT 2 all over again. I posted in another thread how the SOX arent Proactive, but exist merely to help other teams get to the Playoffs....... We Make Deals
based on Economics, and thats NEVER a way to get to the
World Series

Boo-yah, right on man. Thats the whole point Ive been tryin to make, but you worded it much better.

BeerHandle
12-17-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by otis
Suddenly, I have some credibility.


In the game of hot potato, Kenny has the spud in his hand for the next 24 hours. Despite published reports, KW is not necessarily done dealing. The Ordonez for Nomar & Williamson has been agreed on pending the Arod trade. Nothing new there. It is a three team trade as of now, but before the three team trade is finalized KW needs to explore the possibility of expanding it to a four team trade. According to my source, (Who has ben dead on so far) KW's options are as follows:

1. Keep the trade as is.
2. Trade Nomar to LA, (Supposedly the Tribune is accurate)
3. Trade other players from the Sox (Konerko, Koch, Valentine) to eliminate salary and receive more players. The Sox are not getting value for Koch, so he is eliminated from the equation. The most interesting possibility is trading Valentin to the Rangers, Konerko to the Dodgers, and upping the level of prospects to the Red Sox for Johnny Damon and Odalis Perez. With Valentin to the Rangers, the Red Sox would not need to compensate Texas as much.



HAIL! HAIL! KING OTIS

When will you be back with more info???

jabrch
12-17-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by LauraJ14
If we trade Maggs and all we end up with is Scott Williamson and Odalis Perez, and some prospects then my many years as a White Sox fan are over. Because it tells me that this team is not serious about winning a championship. Just give our best player to Boston and help them make the playoffs! This s**cks!!!

If we get Williamson, Perez, Mota along with freeing up salary to go out and sign a few FAs and get a guy like Miller all for a RF who we know is leaving after this year (cuz we won't pay him 5/75 like someone else will) then I will be content.

If, after this year, Magglio leaves to go to the Cubs as a FA and all we get is the Cubs late first round pick and a sandwich pick, I will scream bloody murder. Don't count that out as a realistic possibility guys...Alou is off the books at 9.5mm next year.

idseer
12-17-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
I've seen KW get overwhelmed before... I don't think that would be good for Sox fans at all... are we even sure that we're trading for the right Garcipara?

LOL! ain't it the truth?

could there be a norman garciaparra in bosox system? :smile:

voodoochile
12-17-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Johnny Popular
This info was posted today at espn.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1688365

But following a series of skeptical postings about the trade on a Red Sox fan Web site, a participant identified as "JohnWHenry" said, "Come on now. Don't start to waver on us. It's the holidays. Be of good cheer! It's going to be just a great, exciting season. Hang in there."

The postings came at 4:26 a.m. Henry has confirmed that he uses that screen name for the "Sons of Sam Horn" bulletin board.

Oh for an owner like that...

Both the Red Sox and Rangers confirmed a report out of Los Angeles that baseball commissioner Bud Selig has established a Thursday afternoon deadline for Texas and Boston to complete the trade or end the talks.

So, we'll know more tomorrow at the latest.

FJA
12-17-2003, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by idseer
could there be a norman garciaparra in bosox system? :smile:

LOL

otis
12-17-2003, 01:28 PM
I am hearing that Nomar is staying with the Sox. If LA wants him they need to better the package for him than the reported one for Ordonez. A trade of Konerko or Valentin all but assures Nomar will stay. the Sox also feel confident they can sign Nomar to an extension!

One thing for sure is that once the trade is announced, we will know if Nomar is a Dodger or WSox. It is not likely that they make the trade official and trade Nomar a week later.


LA is caught with their pants down and still need a bat witout many options. There best options are:

1. Severely overpay for Nomar.
2. Trade for Konerko.

Either way the Sox win!

Tekijawa
12-17-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Oh for an owner like that...



You know... If you change a few letters arround, the Subtract a few letters, and Change the letters completely Jerry Reinsdorf does Eventually spell Otis!!! Maybe he's already posting here!

Palehose13
12-17-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by otis
I am hearing that Nomar is staying with the Sox. If LA wants him they need to better the package for him than the reported one for Ordonez. A trade of Konerko or Valentin all but assures Nomar will stay. the Sox also feel confident they can sign Nomar to an extension!

One thing for sure is that once the trade is announced, we will know if Nomar is a Dodger or WSox. It is not likely that they make the trade official and trade Nomar a week later.


LA is caught with their pants down and still need a bat witout many options. There best options are:

1. Severely overpay for Nomar.
2. Trade for Konerko.

Either way the Sox win!

I like keeping Nomar, signing the extension, and trading Konerko for arm(s)? Valentin trade to Seattle has me curious...Guillen or Garcia?

Palehose13
12-17-2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
You know... If you change a few letters arround, the Subtract a few letters, and Change the letters completely Jerry Reinsdorf does Eventually spell Ottis!!! Maybe he's already posting here!

Maybe otis is JR's middle name, or dog's name or something...

jabrch
12-17-2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by otis
I am hearing that Nomar is staying with the Sox. If LA wants him they need to better the package for him than the reported one for Ordonez. A trade of Konerko or Valentin all but assures Nomar will stay. the Sox also feel confident they can sign Nomar to an extension!

One thing for sure is that once the trade is announced, we will know if Nomar is a Dodger or WSox. It is not likely that they make the trade official and trade Nomar a week later.


LA is caught with their pants down and still need a bat witout many options. There best options are:

1. Severely overpay for Nomar.
2. Trade for Konerko.

Either way the Sox win!

Otis, doesn't LA have some other options? Pudge? Vlad? Why are they so fixated on Nomar? Why do they even care about PK? Do they have any clue how bad he really has been other than for 1/2 of a season?

Frank the Tank
12-17-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
If we get Williamson, Perez, Mota along with freeing up salary to go out and sign a few FAs and get a guy like Miller all for a RF who we know is leaving after this year (cuz we won't pay him 5/75 like someone else will) then I will be content.


The sox are screwed anyway you look at it when they trade for Miller (or any prospets for that matter). One of two things could happen:

1. Miller lays an egg
2. The Sox develop Miller and trade him away when he starts putting up some good numbers.

The sox are little more than a AAA team now. We have a cheap owner who doesn't want to pay players. We rehab or develop players and then trade them away if their stock rises. We wouldn't be having any kind of Magglio discussion if JR would pay him. I doubt we will ever have another career HOF after Frank Thomas. Think about it.

thepaulbowski
12-17-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by otis
I am hearing that Nomar is staying with the Sox. If LA wants him they need to better the package for him than the reported one for Ordonez. A trade of Konerko or Valentin all but assures Nomar will stay. the Sox also feel confident they can sign Nomar to an extension!

One thing for sure is that once the trade is announced, we will know if Nomar is a Dodger or WSox. It is not likely that they make the trade official and trade Nomar a week later.


LA is caught with their pants down and still need a bat witout many options. There best options are:

1. Severely overpay for Nomar.
2. Trade for Konerko.

Either way the Sox win!


I hope you are right, if this goes through and the Sox sign him to an extension then I think it's a great deal. Magglio is wanting way too much money and I'm not sure if he can get the money he thinks he can. Hopefully the Dodgers will trade for Konerko!!

otis
12-17-2003, 01:41 PM
Keep in mind, I really only know what is going on from a Boston perspective. To comment about LA would be purely speculative on my point. I only know the possibilities of completing a four team trade. I will let the BS be posted on soxtalk.com. I am getting bashed over there for sharing info with WSI.

Lip Man 1
12-17-2003, 01:44 PM
Frank says:

The sox are little more than a AAA team now. We have a cheap owner who doesn't want to pay players. We rehab or develop players and then trade them away if their stock rises.

That's what happens when you live in a 'small market!'

LOL

Lip

Palehose13
12-17-2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by otis
Keep in mind, I really only know what is going on from a Boston perspective. To comment about LA would be purely speculative on my point. I only know the possibilities of completing a four team trade. I will let the BS be posted on soxtalk.com. I am getting bashed over there for sharing info with WSI.

Sorry that you are getting bashed for being over here.
I didn't know that there was a Sox board war. With so few of us, shouldn't we all get along???