PDA

View Full Version : Market Size?


anewman35
12-15-2003, 03:18 PM
I kept seeing people saying the Sox were in the third largest market in the country, but it occured to me that I didn't really know if that was true (Chicago is the third largest city, yes, but that has little to do with how big the market is). I was doing some searching and came across this (http://home.nycap.rr.com/nickandaj/marketsize.html) . I know nothing about it (such as when he made it, what qualifications he has, or anything, I only know what's on that page), but it's still interesting. Any thoughts?

poorme
12-15-2003, 03:25 PM
That person must have somehow "split" the market between the Cubs and Sox.

anewman35
12-15-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by poorme
That person must have somehow "split" the market between the Cubs and Sox.

He says right at the top that he did. That makes sense though, doesn't it? Cub fans aren't watching our games or giving us any money, why should they could as our market?

Iwritecode
12-15-2003, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
He says right at the top that he did. That makes sense though, doesn't it? Cub fans aren't watching our games or giving us any money, why should they could as our market?

Oh yes they are.

Remember the idiot that attacked the umpire? (Not the father/son combo) He was/is a Cubs fan. He even admitted later that he had been at Wrigley drinking all day long. You don't think there are others that do that? I know for a fact that myself and a few other posters on here have done the same thing when the Cubs and Sox are both in town on the same day. Well, minus the part about running on the field...

That's not even counting all the 'casual' fans that just go to whatever team happens to be in town that day...

anewman35
12-15-2003, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Oh yes they are.

That's not even counting all the 'casual' fans that just go to whatever team happens to be in town that day...

Ok, you're right (I really meant "hardcore" Cub fans wouldn't come to our games, not the casual ones). But it doesn't do anything to the list, because he says he took this into account -

I've made educated guesses on how to divide up the two team markets with the presumption that some people can be (at least casual) fans of both teams.

voodoochile
12-15-2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
Ok, you're right (I really meant "hardcore" Cub fans wouldn't come to our games, not the casual ones). But it doesn't do anything to the list, because he says he took this into account -

Those people, their families and their offspring still live in the "Sox market". When the flubbies have had the horrible years they have in the past 3 decades, the fact that the Sox don't own the city says a lot for how inept they have been at capturing the new born imagination and the hearts of people who move to the city.

But beyond all of that, with 7 million people within an easy drive from Soxpark on any given night even if you write off 60 percent of them as unreachable (flubs fans, don't care, etc.) the remaining market still dwarfs most of the other markets they compete with.

Lip Man 1
12-15-2003, 10:41 PM
Here's another number to look into,

money generated by radio / TV contracts.

Last I saw the Sox were in the top 5 in MLB along with the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and I think the Cubs.

Lip

Soxboyrob
12-15-2003, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
Here's another number to look into,

money generated by radio / TV contracts.

Last I saw the Sox were in the top 5 in MLB along with the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers and I think the Cubs.

Lip

Actually, they're sixth....behind all of the teams you mentioned AND the Braves.

Lip Man 1
12-16-2003, 12:35 PM
That's still among the "large market" cities isn't it? 6th is nothing to laugh at when it comes to revenue generated by radio / TV / advertising sales.

Lip

Iwritecode
12-16-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by Soxboyrob
Actually, they're sixth....behind all of the teams you mentioned AND the Braves.

Then shouldn't that mean that the only teams that are outspending the Sox should be those 5 teams?

It's ridiculous to have payroll under 60 million when the team is in the 3rd largest city in America and has the 6th highest revenue generated by radio / TV / advertising sales.

IMO, this helps to prove that JR is laughing all the way to the bank...

anewman35
12-16-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
Then shouldn't that mean that the only teams that are outspending the Sox should be those 5 teams?

It's ridiculous to have payroll under 60 million when the team is in the 3rd largest city in America and has the 6th highest revenue generated by radio / TV / advertising sales.


Well, being the third largest city means nothing, it's the market that matters if anything, and I don't really think it's fair to just look at number of people, either. Let's say you have two teams, one in a very very rich area, one in a very very poor area, both with the same population. They aren't going to have the same revenues, not even close to it.

Iwritecode
12-16-2003, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
Well, being the third largest city means nothing, it's the market that matters if anything, and I don't really think it's fair to just look at number of people, either. Let's say you have two teams, one in a very very rich area, one in a very very poor area, both with the same population. They aren't going to have the same revenues, not even close to it.

The city is the market. The team is marketing themselves to the 8 million people that live in the city and are able to go to games daily if they choose to. The area around the staduim shouldn't make a difference either. If that were the case, then nobody would show up to see the Yankees. There are plenty of Sox fans on the north side of the city also if that's what you are referring to...

This team has the ability to make and spend much much more than what they are. They just have to take the first step and spend the money to put a contending team on the field year after year. The fans will show up if/when that happens...

MisterB
12-16-2003, 02:04 PM
Rankings are one thing but total numbers are another. Ranking-wise the Sox were #2 in the AL Central in '02 which doesn't sound too bad until you see they were at .500 and 13.5 games behind #1. The Sox have one of the better media deals in the majors, but by estimates it's worth about a third of the Yankees' deal (Sox c. $30M, the Yanks $90M+). Just like Chicago is the 3rd biggest metro area in the U.S., yet it's less than half the population of the NYC area. (9M to 21M).

Iwritecode
12-16-2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by MisterB
Rankings are one thing but total numbers are another. Ranking-wise the Sox were #2 in the AL Central in '02 which doesn't sound too bad until you see they were at .500 and 13.5 games behind #1. The Sox have one of the better media deals in the majors, but by estimates it's worth about a third of the Yankees' deal (Sox c. $30M, the Yanks $90M+). Just like Chicago is the 3rd biggest metro area in the U.S., yet it's less than half the population of the NYC area. (9M to 21M).

There's a difference between being #2 out of 5 and #6 out of 30.

Anyway, no matter how you work the numbers or compare them to other cities, there is still no reason this team couldn't stand a payroll somewhere around the MLB average. IIRC, it's about 70 million.

ondafarm
12-16-2003, 10:15 PM
I think this is totally bogus. It lists Raleigh-Durham, where I live as in the Baltimore drawing area. It's more than 300 miles to Baltimore from here. I don't consider that to be in the neighborhood.