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Unregistered
12-15-2003, 01:13 PM
1 year, $750k

I guess he wouldn't have hurt in our 'pen, but I've never been much of a Hernandez fan anyway...

Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20031215&content_id=618619&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

nodiggity59
12-15-2003, 01:16 PM
Damn I would have loved to see him back on the South Side - especially at that price.

mike squires
12-15-2003, 02:11 PM
Phillies grabbed Roberto Hernandes. I kind of forgot about him. Anyway he could have been converted to a set up man? I realize he is over the hill but they signed him for only 750,000! Could have possily helped us out in the bull pen like Gordon did last year.

mike squires
12-15-2003, 02:14 PM
Wilson Alverez close to being a Brave. How come all of our old guys are going to contending teams?

Baby Fisk
12-15-2003, 02:27 PM
WHO KILLED KENNY?!

That must be the only explanation for his disappearance.

Seriously, is he playing this waiting game because he's looking to land Charlie Hough?!

KingXerxes
12-15-2003, 03:56 PM
A signing like this is exactly what Williams should be looking to do.

I can just imagine two months from now:

:KW

"Mr. Reinsdorf, I waited and waited, and it finally paid off - we're signing some guys now!"

:reinsy

"Who did we get?"

:KW

"This guy Alfonseca for $360,000 per year - that's only 30 thousand per finger, and this guy Veres for the minimum, and Guthrie - he can either start or pitch in relief - he was only $300,000."

:reinsy

"Good job Kenny........good job."

Hangar18
12-15-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
1 year, $750k

I guess he wouldn't have hurt in our 'pen, but I've never been much of a Hernandez fan anyway...

Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20031215&content_id=618619&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

How the Hell did we miss picking him up for that Price ????
What IS KENNYS Plan this offseason ????

CHISOXFAN13
12-15-2003, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
How the Hell did we miss picking him up for that Price ????
What IS KENNYS Plan this offseason ????

His number have declined each of the past three years, and he is going to be 40 next year.

He is over the hill.

CubKilla
12-15-2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
What IS KENNYS Plan this offseason ????

:KW

"ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz....."

MarkEdward
12-15-2003, 05:02 PM
I'm happy we stayed away from Hernandez. 43 walks in only 60 innings pitched is not a very good ratio.

I have faith that Kenny could put together a decent bullpen. Let's just hope he stays away from the Mike Williams' and Jose Mesa's of the baseball world...

washington
12-15-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by mike squires
Wilson Alverez close to being a Brave. How come all of our old guys are going to contending teams?

Remember when Reinsdorf and Schu defended the White Flag Trade by saying how it would set the Sox up for the future? Alvarez and Hernandez are signing as FAs with playoff contenders, and Foulke's the only guy the Sox got who's still playing at the major league level.

CubKilla
12-15-2003, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by washington
Remember when Reinsdorf and Schu defended the White Flag Trade by saying how it would set the Sox up for the future?

The "White Flag" did set us up for the future..... the 2000 AL Central Champs and the 3-game ALDS drubbing. Neither made any guarantee's after that.

MHOUSE
12-15-2003, 05:25 PM
He's over the hill, but Hernandez is worth a measley $750k on the chance he can have a 3.50-4.25 ERA and eat 50 or 60 innings out of the pen. These are the types of deals that "small market" clubs with fixed budgets need to come up with. Somebody wake up KW, seriously.

DirtySouthsider
12-15-2003, 07:51 PM
I'm happy we said away...he is over the hill and very bad. Yes I know he is very cheap but if he is in your bullpen then we would be forced to use him.
The only reason guys are even noticing this deal is because he is a former White Sox. He only had about two good years here and that's it. Since then it's all been done hill!
Making this move would get us nowhere closer to the playoffs. He would just be another guy in the pen that we pray Ozzie wouldn't go to!

Brian26
12-15-2003, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by washington
Remember when Reinsdorf and Schu defended the White Flag Trade by saying how it would set the Sox up for the future? Alvarez and Hernandez are signing as FAs with playoff contenders, and Foulke's the only guy the Sox got who's still playing at the major league level.

And Danny Darwin is plowing snow in Melrose Park this winter.

doogiec
12-15-2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by washington
Remember when Reinsdorf and Schu defended the White Flag Trade by saying how it would set the Sox up for the future? Alvarez and Hernandez are signing as FAs with playoff contenders, and Foulke's the only guy the Sox got who's still playing at the major league level.

Alvarez has won an average of four games per season since 1998, Darwin had an era of 5.51 in 1998 and has been retired since. Hernandez has maintained a respectable career but is clearly reaching the end.

I wouldn't say we gave up a whole lot, in retrospect. And the Giants were swept in the first round of the playoffs, with Alvarez and Hernadez each picking up losses, and then leaving town.

A couple of years ago I heard someone teasing Hernandez in the visitor's bullpen at Comiskey telling him the Sox were about to get him back in a trade. Hernandez said he'd retire first.

Brian26
12-15-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
A couple of years ago I heard someone teasing Hernandez in the visitor's bullpen at Comiskey telling him the Sox were about to get him back in a trade. Hernandez said he'd retire first.

Actually Robo and his wife liked Chicago when they were here, and there was some speculation that he would come back to the Sox after he left the Giants. Most of the speculation was on his part.

Lip Man 1
12-15-2003, 10:06 PM
FYI. here is the exact quote from the owner:

Reinsdorf had this to say to the Chicago Tribune,

"It's obvious we're disappointed with the way our ballclub has played this year, with our record... no question about it. We were faced with losing Alvarez and Roberto and getting nothing, as we did with Alex (Fernandez). Now we’ve added a half dozen talented young players. Two or three have a chance of being stars, according to our scouts. . . . If they're half right, we're in great shape ."

and doogie have you factored in how the Sox were hammered with negative publicity both locally and nationally? Have you considered how the trade hurt attendence the next two years? How it further damaged Uncle Jerry's credibility with the fans who refuse to give him their money by attending more games?

Just wondering...

Lip

doogiec
12-15-2003, 10:43 PM
I agree, it did have a disastrous effect on attendance. It was attacked by the media, both locally and nationally.

But look at what the media was attacking:

1. The White Sox were below .500 at the start of the day 7/31.
2. The White Sox had been playing below .500 for the past 162 games.

Not exactly World Series caliber. And the 1998 team had the same approx .500 record as the 1997 team. Yet the Chicago media, which had been largely ignoring the Sox up to that point (certainly not selling a pennant race) saw it as another opening to bury the franchise. And they took it.

I suspect that if the Sox are around .500 Aug 1, 2004 everyone will be calling for Williams and Guillens heads, not talking about a World Series contender.

Rebuilding is alway unpopular and always lowers attendance. And the Sox don't seem to be very good at it. But every team does it from time to time, and the Sox managed to do it without going completely down the toilet and returned to being a contender within a few years, quicker than most. And the Sox were better off not having resigned Alvarez to a large contract.

washington
12-16-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by doogiec
I

1. The White Sox were below .500 at the start of the day 7/31.
2. The White Sox had been playing below .500 for the past 162 games.

Not exactly World Series caliber.

It was pretty close to World Series caliber. Cleveland won the division with 86 wins (.534) and nearly won the World Series. The White Sox had a shot at winning the division that year and the White Flag trade (plus the others that preceeded it) both gutted and demoralized the team. The team only drew atbout 28,000 on opening day the next year, the damage is still there.

Lip Man 1
12-16-2003, 11:41 AM
The Sox were below .500 because of one reason and one reason only, Robin Ventura's injury. That catastrophic injury taking place just a few days before the season opened destroyed any momentum and confidence the club had.

They started the season at 6-18 I think. The fact that they battled back to be so close should have been used as a positive. Instead of tanking the season, they should have been adding players. No wonder Ventura felt betrayed.

The blame if there is any to be handed out should fall exactly where it belongs, on the general manager who was quoted in all the Chicago papers the day after Ventura's injury as saying he was going to go out and get another 3rd baseman AND another left handed bat off the bench. Instead he did nothing.

Doogie you may also be interested to know that in the 6 seasons since the White Flag Trade, the Sox average record is 83-79. That's includes the 95 win fluke season of 2000. You are correct about one thing, the Sox aren't very good at rebuilding at least under current ownership.

Lip

doogiec
12-16-2003, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by washington
It was pretty close to World Series caliber. Cleveland won the division with 86 wins (.534) and nearly won the World Series. The White Sox had a shot at winning the division that year and the White Flag trade (plus the others that preceeded it) both gutted and demoralized the team. The team only drew atbout 28,000 on opening day the next year, the damage is still there.

History doesn't lie. Out of the 312 teams who have either finished in first place or made the postseason in the modern era (1901 on), a grand total of seven did so with a record as bad as or worse than the Sox had on the morning of July 31st. Of those seven, only two played in the World Series. And the last time a team won the World Series and had a losing record at the end of July was the 1914 Boston Braves. And they ended the season 51-14 to do it. (There could have been two more in 1994, but we'll never know). So despite what the media would have you believe, the odds of a White Sox postseason appearance were tiny, of a World title virtually impossible.

But of course the media spun this as another World Series being snatched from our hands by the evil owners, and the lemmings followed along with no thought on their own. And the damage is still there.

doogiec
12-16-2003, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
The Sox were below .500 because of one reason and one reason only, Robin Ventura's injury. That catastrophic injury taking place just a few days before the season opened destroyed any momentum and confidence the club had.

They started the season at 6-18 I think. The fact that they battled back to be so close should have been used as a positive. Instead of tanking the season, they should have been adding players. No wonder Ventura felt betrayed.

The blame if there is any to be handed out should fall exactly where it belongs, on the general manager who was quoted in all the Chicago papers the day after Ventura's injury as saying he was going to go out and get another 3rd baseman AND another left handed bat off the bench. Instead he did nothing.

Doogie you may also be interested to know that in the 6 seasons since the White Flag Trade, the Sox average record is 83-79. That's includes the 95 win fluke season of 2000. You are correct about one thing, the Sox aren't very good at rebuilding at least under current ownership.

Lip

Damn right this team doesn't know how to rebuild. And Schueler should be blamed for failing to fix the team in April, not just in 1997 but in 1995 and 1996. Even with Ventura in 1995 and 96 the White Sox were 153-153. In fact the White Sox had been playing .500 baseball for two and a half years when the White Flag trade occurred. Yet we were headed for the Postseason?

The bottom line on this trade was this: A mediocre team remained a mediocre team. The Sox avoided losing a ton of money on Alvarez. When you look at the players who never made it, we effectively traded Hernandez for Foulke and Howry. Both game us five good seasons. And Hernandez has had a nice career with TB and KC. Overall a non event that has been blown way out of proportion, and was caused by years of mediocrity on the field, not some evil moment of madness by ownership, as the media would have us believe.

StillMissOzzie
12-16-2003, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
A signing like this is exactly what Williams should be looking to do.

I can just imagine two months from now:

:KW

"This guy Alfonseca for $360,000 per year - that's only 30 thousand per finger......"

:reinsy

"Good job Kenny........good job."

LMAO!!!

SMO
:D: