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Tragg
12-14-2003, 01:32 PM
I got into an argument below about this. My objection isn't about trading him - I just want to get something we need in return - like a leadoff hitter, a middle infielder and pitching.

In fact, I think we probably should trade him - his salary is about 20% of the payroll target (too high a percentage for one player), we probably won't resign him, looking realistically. Further, we have holes on this team, and we have won one division with this edition. Some retooling is necessary on the field, some is necessary because of our payroll limits (albeit self imposed). Throw in the overpaid valentin while we're at it.

Some interesting possibilities were proposed with seattle on the other board.

And if we did such a deal, including trading konerko while only picking up, say, 1/2 of his salary, we could also sign somone like Ponson and stay payroll neutral.

Paulwny
12-14-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
I got into an argument below about this. My objection isn't about trading him - I just want to get something we need in return - like a leadoff hitter, a middle infielder and pitching.

In fact, I think we probably should trade him - his salary is about 20% of the payroll target (too high a percentage for one player), we probably won't resign him, looking realistically. Further, we have holes on this team, and we have won one division with this edition. Some retooling is necessary on the field, some is necessary because of our payroll limits (albeit self imposed). Throw in the overpaid valentin while we're at it.

Some interesting possibilities were proposed with seattle on the other board.

And if we did such a deal, including trading konerko while only picking up, say, 1/2 of his salary, we could also sign somone like Ponson and stay payroll neutral.

With a $14 mil contract I don't think Maggs is tradeable at this time without eating some of his salary.
I feel if the sox start off badly Maggs will be traded to a contender at the break when that team is only picking up 1/2 the salary.
Since most teams know Maggs situation with the sox I don't see getting much in return other then minor league players.

MRKARNO
12-14-2003, 03:15 PM
if KW could pull off Maggs for Garcia and Rafael Soriano, I'd be a happy man

mac9001
12-14-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
if KW could pull off Maggs for Garcia and Rafael Soriano, I'd be a happy man

Same here, but its not gonna happen. Soriano is a stud and he's probably as close to untouchable as you can get.

Maybe if Tejada sings somewhere else, the M's will get desperate and do a Maggs+Jose+Cash($2-4M) for Garica+Soriano+Top 10 prospect

jeremyb1
12-14-2003, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Tragg
I got into an argument below about this. My objection isn't about trading him - I just want to get something we need in return - like a leadoff hitter, a middle infielder and pitching.


If we dump his entire salary that should free up the money to sign those types of players in free agency.

PaulDrake
12-14-2003, 05:51 PM
It's a vicious circle. Dump guys because you can't afford them. Get new guys and if they perform then you'll eventually have to dump them too. Are we the Pirates? The Brewers? It sure seems like it. If the owners can afford another collusion fiasco it looks like the seemingly never ending skyrocketing of salaries might finally be a thing of the past. Maggs got his contract at the end of the latest wave making him "unaffordable." I am still baffled by the willingness here to so easily trade him for players who for the most part appear to be to be just a little above mediocre. Maggs is worth more than that to me.

lowesox
12-14-2003, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
It's a vicious circle. Dump guys because you can't afford them. Get new guys and if they perform then you'll eventually have to dump them too. Are we the Pirates? The Brewers? It sure seems like it. If the owners can afford another collusion fiasco it looks like the seemingly never ending skyrocketing of salaries might finally be a thing of the past. Maggs got his contract at the end of the latest wave making him "unaffordable." I am still baffled by the willingness here to so easily trade him for players who for the most part appear to be to be just a little above mediocre. Maggs is worth more than that to me.

My willingness comes from the fact that this is a team that appears to be getting older and is standing at a crossroads. Either we A) go for it this year or B) rebuild. But I for one will be pissed when JR and KW elect to C) insult us and go for it half way.

I hate the thought of trading MAggs, but I hate the thought of losing for another 5 years. If the sox are serious about winning then they should seriously consider trading maggs because they have far too many holes to fill with minor leaguers.

jeremyb1
12-14-2003, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
It's a vicious circle. Dump guys because you can't afford them. Get new guys and if they perform then you'll eventually have to dump them too. Are we the Pirates? The Brewers? It sure seems like it. If the owners can afford another collusion fiasco it looks like the seemingly never ending skyrocketing of salaries might finally be a thing of the past. Maggs got his contract at the end of the latest wave making him "unaffordable." I am still baffled by the willingness here to so easily trade him for players who for the most part appear to be to be just a little above mediocre. Maggs is worth more than that to me.

The A's have shed players that cost too much money quite well. Look at Giambi. They've used compensation picks to frequently restock their minor league system and major league club and have dealt players that priced themselves out of their club for more useful players (see Koch for Foulke).

PaulDrake
12-14-2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
The A's have shed players that cost too much money quite well. Look at Giambi. They've used compensation picks to frequently restock their minor league system and major league club and have dealt players that priced themselves out of their club for more useful players (see Koch for Foulke). Very good point but the A's have Billy Beane and we have ...... uh what's his name?

Daver
12-14-2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by PaulDrake
Very good point but the A's have Billy Beane and we have ...... uh what's his name?

Billy Beane has won what in his time with the A's?

Lip Man 1
12-14-2003, 06:35 PM
and Mr. Genius has basically lost nothing but POSITION players, We'll see how good they are A's when their starters start dropping like flies. Hudson, Zito and Mulder will all be gone in the next four years. Even Zito himself was quoted a few weeks ago in The Sporting News as expressing real concern over the future of the A's because they keep losing their home grown talent and won't keep it around.

Lip

PaulDrake
12-14-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Billy Beane has won what in his time with the A's? They haven't won a World Championship, but they've done a lot better than we have. There is just no way I'm going to be happy about trading Maggs for what I've seen proposed on this forum. I have never been, am not now, and may never be a fan of KW. He manages to make the worst trade of the year, every year, among many other reasons why I'm not big on him. Yes you are correct Beane and the A's have no World Championships to their credit. And no, I don't think Beane walks on water. Still, with payroll restrictions equal to or possibly even more severe than those facing KW he's done one hell of a job in my estimation.

JaylisJP
12-14-2003, 07:55 PM
I won't be happy if we trade Maggs...i named my first dog after him. and I'm not naming my next dog Uribe.

Tragg
12-14-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
With a $14 mil contract I don't think Maggs is tradeable at this time without eating some of his salary.
I feel if the sox start off badly Maggs will be traded to a contender at the break when that team is only picking up 1/2 the salary.
Since most teams know Maggs situation with the sox I don't see getting much in return other then minor league players.

Maybe - but Maggs is actually worth his salary.
Konerko and Koch assuredly are not worth their salaries - we'd definitely have to pick up some of theirs and we wouldn't get much in return.

jeremyb1
12-15-2003, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Lip Man 1
and Mr. Genius has basically lost nothing but POSITION players, We'll see how good they are A's when their starters start dropping like flies. Hudson, Zito and Mulder will all be gone in the next four years. Even Zito himself was quoted a few weeks ago in The Sporting News as expressing real concern over the future of the A's because they keep losing their home grown talent and won't keep it around.

Rich Harden and Joe Blanton. Don't forget those names Lip.

jeremyb1
12-15-2003, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by Daver
Billy Beane has won what in his time with the A's?

This has been done so many times now Daver. Winning 95 games and making the playoffs every season on a payroll the fraction of other contenders in arguably the best division in baseball is not a bad thing. Furthermore, there are better tests of a team's ability than five and seven game series. Personally I put much more weight on 162 games than five or seven.

Frank the Tank
12-15-2003, 01:46 AM
I hate to see Mags go, but we need to trade him while we still can. With the way things are going this offseason, I have no reason to believe the White Sox have a chance to compete in 2004. If management is going to give up anyway, why not go all out? Besided good PR, what difference in the grander scheme of things is Mags going to accomplish on the southside? Attendance will suck if he is there or not. White Sox will not make the playoffs if he is there or not. My point is why pay $14 MM for a player when management is not committed to winning? Like Magglio is going to make such a big difference in a lineup including: Paul Konerko, Willie Harris, Aaron Rowand, Miguel Olivio, Uribe, etc... Lets get trade him now while we can still get something for him.

jeremyb1
12-15-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Like Magglio is going to make such a big difference in a lineup including: Paul Konerko, Willie Harris, Aaron Rowand, Miguel Olivio, Uribe, etc... Lets get trade him now while we can still get something for him.

As it stand, Uribe shouldn't see much more than 200 at bats next season. He's mostly just a platoon partner for Valentin and a backup at 2B.