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Unregistered
12-13-2003, 05:32 PM
Why is he even at the meetings? I can just picture him running around shaking hands and trying to talk to every reporter standing around waiting for something to happen. Glad he can offer these important nuggets:

"I think the Cubs have a great team, a great manager, great fans." Guillen said. "I think the fans will like Pudge -- he'll be more enthusiastic. They're two different players. I think Pudge is right for the Cub fans and Chicago fans.

"With that pitching staff, I want to be a catcher," Guillen said of the Cubs' rotation of Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Matt Clement and Carlos Zambrano. "No matter what finger I put down, I'll be right."

Ozzie, what the hell team are you working for? Stop trying to sell players to other teams, let alone the friggin' CUBS. Especially when the team you're MANAGING has plenty of its own problems to worry about...

Guillen Says Pudge Should Go to Cubs (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20031213&content_id=616779&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

Cubsfan
12-13-2003, 05:35 PM
The new Chicago White Sox manager, who was a coach on the World Champion Florida Marlins last season, said Rodriguez wants to play for the Cubs.

[snip]

Would Rodriguez be willing to accept a two-year contract, not four?

"Yeah, I think so," Guillen said.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/news/chc_news.jsp?ymd=20031213&content_id=616779&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chn (Link)

Cubsfan
12-13-2003, 05:42 PM
You guys are quick, I was still trying to figure out how to delete my duplicate.

Daver
12-13-2003, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Cubsfan
You guys are quick, I was still trying to figure out how to delete my duplicate.

You couldn't have deleted it anyway.


:bandance:

roofshot87
12-13-2003, 07:31 PM
I was always under the impression that Ozzie didn't care for Cub fans, In fact he had been ripping on them during the NLCS. Was this just in the spirit of the game or something?

oldcomiskey
12-13-2003, 08:53 PM
not taking up for ozzie--but who believes what is printed in the chicago papers?

CubKilla
12-13-2003, 08:55 PM
Just Ozzie trying to be everyone's friend.

Dick Allen
12-13-2003, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Just Ozzie trying to be everyone's friend.

He keeps this @#!@#% up, he ain't gonna be my friend.

soxnut
12-13-2003, 10:23 PM
Here you all are again, the true-blue-whining-crew. Ozzie was part of the Marlins. He was asked about players he knows. What's he supposed to do? Say nothing? Or act like an ignorant Sox fan? He had his statement, so what.....some of you are alot more annoying that Ozzie could ever be.

Jjav829
12-13-2003, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by soxnut
Here you all are again, the true-blue-whining-crew. Ozzie was part of the Marlins. He was asked about players he knows. What's he supposed to do? Say nothing? Or act like an ignorant Sox fan? He had his statement, so what.....some of you are alot more annoying that Ozzie could ever be.

He didn't have to go overboard with it. Who knows what the question was, but assuming it was about Pudge, he could have just stated he thinks Pudge will go to the Cubs and be a great fit because a player like pudge helps any team. Thats all he had to say. He didn't have to go into talking about how great the Cubs fans are and how they'll love Pudge and saying Pudge is right for the Cubs and Cubs fans etc.

But this is just something we're gonna have to get used to from Ozzie. I can stand him running his mouth a little, but hes gotta understand that running his mouth about how great the Cubs are is not going to endear him to Sox fans.

duke of dorwood
12-13-2003, 10:42 PM
He could have been half that upbeat about Frank.

RedPinStripes
12-13-2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
He didn't have to go overboard with it. Who knows what the question was, but assuming it was about Pudge, he could have just stated he thinks Pudge will go to the Cubs and be a great fit because a player like pudge helps any team. Thats all he had to say. He didn't have to go into talking about how great the Cubs fans are and how they'll love Pudge and saying Pudge is right for the Cubs and Cubs fans etc.

But this is just something we're gonna have to get used to from Ozzie. I can stand him running his mouth a little, but hes gotta understand that running his mouth about how great the Cubs are is not going to endear him to Sox fans.

When you ask Ozzie a question, you always get more then the answer. His interviews are going to make for great topics here. And he could put Lee Elia to shame with one bad losing streak. The way it looks, he could snap by April 20th.

red faber
12-14-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by Unregistered
Why is he even at the meetings? I can just picture him running around shaking hands and trying to talk to every reporter standing around waiting for something to happen. Glad he can offer these important nuggets:



Ozzie, what the hell team are you working for? Stop trying to sell players to other teams, let alone the friggin' CUBS. Especially when the team you're MANAGING has plenty of its own problems to worry about...

Guillen Says Pudge Should Go to Cubs (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news.jsp?ymd=20031213&content_id=616779&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)


and this guy is our new manager.....i feel sick!!!!!!! :(: :(: :(:

oldcomiskey
12-14-2003, 08:20 AM
oh please--you got to be kidding Me---you are the same people who say dont believe what the press says--who says this isnt taken out of context--and its ozzies job to manage frank--not kiss his spoiled big ass

doogiec
12-14-2003, 08:27 AM
The Cubs need a better catcher.

Rodriguez is one of the best catchers in the game.

Ozzie says this would be a good match.

How exactly does stating the obvious make Ozzie an idiot?

Jjav829
12-14-2003, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by doogiec
The Cubs need a better catcher.

Rodriguez is one of the best catchers in the game.

Ozzie says this would be a good match.

How exactly does stating the obvious make Ozzie an idiot?

Because that isn't all he said. Plus, it isn't his job to worry about the Cubs. He is the manager of the Chicago White Sox. Not the Chicago Cubs. Anyways, I don't have a problem with him saying that Pudge wants to be a Cub and that it is a good fit. What I have a problem with is him continuing to go on, saying...

"I think the Cubs have a great team, a great manager, great fans." Guillen said. "I think the fans will like Pudge -- he'll be more enthusiastic. They're two different players. I think Pudge is right for the Cub fans and Chicago fans."

Assuming he was asked about Pudge, why bring up the fans. Who cares what the fans will think? It's not your job to worry about the Chicago Cubs fans. Hes played nearly his whole career here. You mean to tell me he doesn't know how much Sox fans despise Cubs fans yet?

"With that pitching staff, I want to be a catcher," Guillen said of the Cubs' rotation of Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Matt Clement and Carlos Zambrano. "No matter what finger I put down, I'll be right."

Why bother going into the Cubs pitching staff? No one cares that you would want to catch their pitching staff. Get off the question and get on to the next question.

Unfortunately, like I said, this is the type of stuff we're going to have to get used to. Hopefully once we get closer to ST Ozzie will stick to talking about the Sox.

TornLabrum
12-14-2003, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by doogiec
The Cubs need a better catcher.

Rodriguez is one of the best catchers in the game.

Ozzie says this would be a good match.

How exactly does stating the obvious make Ozzie an idiot?

That's simple. Some people here have already pre-determined without a lick of evidence one way or the other, that Ozzie will be a terrible manager. Everything he says that could even vaguely support their unfounded claim can and will be used against him in the court of their closed minds.

soxwon
12-14-2003, 08:57 AM
im really pissed off at ozzie- who the hell is he managing?
hes trying to get IROD on the Cubs- this is treason.
he should want to DESTROY the Cubs.
what a jerk off.

emaholic
12-14-2003, 11:35 AM
He has lost his MIND?!

oldcomiskey
12-14-2003, 12:41 PM
you people remind me of the kind of guys in those old John Wayne westerns---the kind that would hand around a condemned mans jail cell and have him hanged---not knowing if hes guilty or not
Face it--what ozzie said was true---like it or dont--Cub fans are more loyal or at least seem that way to an outsider like Ozzie. You have to remember when Ozzie was here before--the Cubs were not yet that popular

Lip Man 1
12-14-2003, 01:24 PM
In my opinion the unspoken reason why some fans are upset by this is because it's another confirmation that the Cubs are now acting like a major market team willing to spend major market money to win.

While the White Sox..... well at least they have great food at Comiskey Park.

Lip

Rocklive99
12-14-2003, 04:11 PM
The story I heard on the Score from some Miami writer was that Ozzie and Pudge were at their kids sports game, and they were talking, and Pudge said he was considering the Cubs and Ozzie was giving him the positives of going there. I don't like that. Maybe he should've recruited some of his other friends to the team he coaches, or at least stop trying to stir up stuff between him and Frank. I remember one specific question at the press conference that asked about team chemistry in general and might have mentioned Frank's name and other names on the team, but Ozzie's answer was specifically about Frank.

RedPinStripes
12-14-2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Rocklive99
The story I heard on the Score from some Miami writer was that Ozzie and Pudge were at their kids sports game, and they were talking, and Pudge said he was considering the Cubs and Ozzie was giving him the positives of going there. I don't like that. Maybe he should've recruited some of his other friends to the team he coaches, or at least stop trying to stir up stuff between him and Frank. I remember one specific question at the press conference that asked about team chemistry in general and might have mentioned Frank's name and other names on the team, but Ozzie's answer was specifically about Frank.

I'm sure the majority of questions Ozzie gets is about Frank because the media knows they didnt get along when they played together. I doubt Ozzie is coming out and just blasting Frank. He's taking the bait.

Daver
12-14-2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
I'm sure the majority of questions Ozzie gets is about Frank because the media knows they didnt get along when they played together. I doubt Ozzie is coming out and just blasting Frank. He's taking the bait.

Great,the Sox new manager is actually worse with the press than his players.

2004 should prove to be interesting to say the least.

:bandance:

RedPinStripes
12-14-2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Daver
Great,the Sox new manager is actually worse with the press than his players.

2004 should prove to be interesting to say the least.

:bandance:

I knew he'd be terrible with the press. Wait till the Sox hit a losing streak.

Hangar18
12-14-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Because that isn't all he said. Plus, it isn't his job to worry about the Cubs. He is the manager of the Chicago White Sox. Not the Chicago Cubs. Anyways, I don't have a problem with him saying that Pudge wants to be a Cub and that it is a good fit. What I have a problem with is him continuing to go on, saying...



Assuming he was asked about Pudge, why bring up the fans. Who cares what the fans will think? It's not your job to worry about the Chicago Cubs fans. Hes played nearly his whole career here. You mean to tell me he doesn't know how much Sox fans despise Cubs fans yet?



Why bother going into the Cubs pitching staff? No one cares that you would want to catch their pitching staff. Get off the question and get on to the next question.

Unfortunately, like I said, this is the type of stuff we're going to have to get used to. Hopefully once we get closer to ST Ozzie will stick to talking about the Sox.

Jjav, Excellent Rebuttal and Well Said. I read that article today
and I was pretty pissed about it. He couldve just commented as a baseball professional, he didnt need to be blowing kisses and throwing Compliments the Cubs way. F the Cubs! He needs to to worry a little bit more on how This Sox team ISNT shaping up this offseason and quit complimenting their Fans and Team. WHY ISNT HE SELLING THE SOX TO PUDGE?? Hey OZZIE, we need a Catcher also, you jackwag! Quit helping the enemy!

Hangar18
12-14-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey

Face it--what ozzie said was true---like it or dont--Cub fans are more loyal or at least seem that way to an outsider like Ozzie. You have to remember when Ozzie was here before--the Cubs were not yet that popular

OldComiskey, with all due respect, Perception is Reality, at least thats how the Media views/reports on things, because theyre TOO LAZY to Report Otherwise. Theres a FineLine between being Loyal and being Dumb, and I think weve proven many many times over that Cub Fans are pretty much the Dumbest Fans that have ever existed. Lets STOP confusing cubby "Loyalty" with being just plain Stupid

KingXerxes
12-14-2003, 10:28 PM
I posted a long, long time ago that I thought the possible hiring of Ozzie Guillen would be an unmitigated disaster.

A huge part of being a manager these days is dealing with the media, and being able to "sell" the team. With players making the money they make these days - it's almost impossible for a manager to establish a clubhouse atmosphere or chemistry - those things tend to evolve by themselves and are usually good when a team is winning, and bad when they're losing.

At Guillen's initial press conference he took off after Frank Thomas, then he talked about how he spoke with Frank and everything was OK, and now I'm reading that Thomas has not spoken a word to him since his hiring - and Guillen is basically agreeing saying that he's tried to get ahold of Thomas, but as of yet hasn't been successful - AND HE'S ONLY BEEN HERE FOR ABOUT A MONTH.

This guy is going to be a disaster along the lines of Bevington. His hiring is some sort of strange PR move on Reinsdorf's part - and it's going to blow up. Ozzie Guillen is a clown.

Lip Man 1
12-14-2003, 10:38 PM
Hanger:

Ozzie wasn't pushing the merits of the Sox to I-Rod for a few reasons...

I-Rod would have laughed in his face...
I-Rod's agent is Scott Boras...

Nuff said.

Lip

vegyrex
12-14-2003, 11:47 PM
If the flubs manage to sign Pudge, Ozzie should throw out the first pitch openning day at Wrigley.

When did he join the cubs front office?

2004 is going to be a loooong season. :(:

red faber
12-15-2003, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by doogiec
The Cubs need a better catcher.

Rodriguez is one of the best catchers in the game.

Ozzie says this would be a good match.

How exactly does stating the obvious make Ozzie an idiot?


because it's just plain stupid what he said.it is the cubs job to make i-rod want to come to the cubs,not ozzie's

his comments are like steve jobs telling his prospective customers how good bill gates's products are.

if anything he, should be trying to convince i-rod to come to the sox!!!!!!

his comments make about as much sense,as the sox hiring his dumb ass in the first place!!!!!!!

steff
12-15-2003, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
not taking up for ozzie--but who believes what is printed in the chicago papers?


It was a quote and not "sources say".. that usually means it's the truth. Not to mention.. several papers outside of Chicago had the same story.

steff
12-15-2003, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by oldcomiskey
you people remind me of the kind of guys in those old John Wayne westerns---the kind that would hand around a condemned mans jail cell and have him hanged---not knowing if hes guilty or not
Face it--what ozzie said was true---like it or dont--Cub fans are more loyal or at least seem that way to an outsider like Ozzie. You have to remember when Ozzie was here before--the Cubs were not yet that popular


Why don't you post one more post about OTHER posters bitching...?

poorme
12-15-2003, 07:43 AM
Good job Ozzie! Sell I-Rod to the National League where we won't have to face him.

Dick Allen
12-15-2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by poorme
Good job Ozzie! Sell I-Rod to the National League where we won't have to face him.

But if he sells him to the Cubs, we WILL have to face him, six times.

poorme
12-15-2003, 08:56 AM
How many times do we face Baltimore next year?

Baby Fisk
12-15-2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by poorme
Good job Ozzie! Sell I-Rod to the National League where we won't have to face him.
That's what I was thinking. Do we want him lifting the Royals or Indians?

TaylorStSox
12-15-2003, 11:44 AM
Jesus! Who cares about the Cubs? I swear some of you enjoy being Cubs haters more than Sox fans. I could care less what the Cubs do. If they win or lose, I still have to ride the Red Line all summer with a bunch of drunk frat boys from Evanston. :gulp:

harwar
12-15-2003, 11:58 AM
I really don't care what he says in the papers except when hes' ripping one of his own players.
I met Ozzie years ago and found him to be a really likeable guy.I just hope that he will shock the hell out of me and be a natural at handling players on and off the field.
However;I think the only reason they kept Valentin(unofficial bench coach) around is to help Guillen manage but i really doubt if he has a clue.

pissonthecubs
12-15-2003, 05:59 PM
Amen to Ozzie getting on my nerves and being more then annoying. If we are getting feed up with him now in the middle of December, just think what we are going to be like in March more less in July or August?? I see nothing but bad things.....

JJAustin69
12-15-2003, 06:26 PM
He got on my nerves as a player. So, I can only imagine how bad it will be if he doesn't win.

doogiec
12-15-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by red faber
because it's just plain stupid what he said.it is the cubs job to make i-rod want to come to the cubs,not ozzie's

his comments are like steve jobs telling his prospective customers how good bill gates's products are.

if anything he, should be trying to convince i-rod to come to the sox!!!!!!

his comments make about as much sense,as the sox hiring his dumb ass in the first place!!!!!!!

The jury's still out on whether he is a dumb ass or not. But according to your post, you think the manager should be out recruiting players that the GM is not interested in. Sounds like an interesting way to run a team, have both the manager and general manager out signing players independent of each other.

Irod would not a a "prospective customer", but a "prospective employee". And he is not a "prospective employee" of the White Sox, so Ozzie has no conflict of interest, unlike the Jobs/Gates analogy. It really makes no difference to him where he plays, although it would be nice to keep him out of the AL.

And anyone who doesn't think Irod didn't already consider the possibility of playing for the Cubs in 2004 has Ozzie beat out for the dumb ass of the year award anyway. Ozzie didn't say anything that everyone didn't already know anyway. Some Sox fans just don't want to admit it, and they want Sox players, management and the media to sugar coat reality. Cubs players play in front of full houses regularly, get significant national attention whether they deserve it or not, and have a great ability to earn extra endorsement money in this market since their fans idolize them. A player would have to be a dumb ass to not consider those factors, and anyone who says those factors don't exist are lying.

CubKilla
12-15-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by JJAustin69
He got on my nerves as a player. So, I can only imagine how bad it will be if he doesn't win.

In Ozzie's defense, he might not have much of a team to do alot of winning with. This would be true also for the Earl Weaver's and Sparky Anderson's of the baseball world with the way the White Sox' '04 offseason is shaping up.

StockdaleForVeep
12-16-2003, 12:04 AM
is it too late for us to ask cito if he'll coach for us?

red faber
12-16-2003, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by doogiec
The jury's still out on whether he is a dumb ass or not. But according to your post, you think the manager should be out recruiting players that the GM is not interested in. Sounds like an interesting way to run a team, have both the manager and general manager out signing players independent of each other.

Irod would not a a "prospective customer", but a "prospective employee". And he is not a "prospective employee" of the White Sox, so Ozzie has no conflict of interest, unlike the Jobs/Gates analogy. It really makes no difference to him where he plays, although it would be nice to keep him out of the AL.

And anyone who doesn't think Irod didn't already consider the possibility of playing for the Cubs in 2004 has Ozzie beat out for the dumb ass of the year award anyway. Ozzie didn't say anything that everyone didn't already know anyway. Some Sox fans just don't want to admit it, and they want Sox players, management and the media to sugar coat reality. Cubs players play in front of full houses regularly, get significant national attention whether they deserve it or not, and have a great ability to earn extra endorsement money in this market since their fans idolize them. A player would have to be a dumb ass to not consider those factors, and anyone who says those factors don't exist are lying.



my point is this,he is the sox manager,so he should be worrying about the sox not the cubs.

LEAVE IT UP TO THE CUBS TO GET PLAYERS TO COME TO THE CUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

red faber
12-16-2003, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by doogiec
The jury's still out on whether he is a dumb ass or not. But according to your post, you think the manager should be out recruiting players that the GM is not interested in. Sounds like an interesting way to run a team, have both the manager and general manager out signing players independent of each other.

Irod would not a a "prospective customer", but a "prospective employee". And he is not a "prospective employee" of the White Sox, so Ozzie has no conflict of interest, unlike the Jobs/Gates analogy. It really makes no difference to him where he plays, although it would be nice to keep him out of the AL.

And anyone who doesn't think Irod didn't already consider the possibility of playing for the Cubs in 2004 has Ozzie beat out for the dumb ass of the year award anyway. Ozzie didn't say anything that everyone didn't already know anyway. Some Sox fans just don't want to admit it, and they want Sox players, management and the media to sugar coat reality. Cubs players play in front of full houses regularly, get significant national attention whether they deserve it or not, and have a great ability to earn extra endorsement money in this market since their fans idolize them. A player would have to be a dumb ass to not consider those factors, and anyone who says those factors don't exist are lying.


their fans idolize them?????

give me a break,the people that go to wrigley field idolize BEER!!!!.thats about it.and wrigley field regularly has full houses because of wrigley field fans,and beer fans,not because of cub fans.if the cubs are winning that is just a added bonus.the truth is, people will go out to that place regardless of how the cubs are doing.and that is an indisputable fact!!!!!!!!!!

and if there were so much pluses to being a cub then why haven't they been able to attract free agents before now???????


"ozzie didn't say anything that everyone didn't already know any way"

it was not his job to say that.
he works for the sox,NOT THE CUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!

and field managers don't have the power to sign players!!!!!

so,what are you talking about?????????????????????

and no i don't sox players and management to sugar coat reality.what i do want, is for them to show me that they sincerely want to win.

and if it didn't really make a difference to ozzie where i-rod plays.then why did he make comments that give the impression that it does make a difference?????????

doogiec
12-16-2003, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by red faber
their fans idolize them?????

give me a break,the people that go to wrigley field idolize BEER!!!!.thats about it.and wrigley field regularly has full houses because of wrigley field fans,and beer fans,not because of cub fans.if the cubs are winning that is just a added bonus.the truth is, people will go out to that place regardless of how the cubs are doing.and that is an indisputable fact!!!!!!!!!!

So you're telling me that people who idolize beer are paying $35 and up per ticket and $6 per beer to simply drink beer when there are 100 bars in the neighborhood without a cover charge and $3 beer. I don't think so. And what do the players care anyway. Its a loud packed house. Some players actually prefer playing in that environment, regardless of the amount of alcohol involved.
Originally posted by red faber
and if there were so much pluses to being a cub then why haven't they been able to attract free agents before now???????
Because the team was consistently losing and management was holding onto the profits. Both situations appear to have changed. We'll see if its temporary or permanent.


Originally posted by red faber
"ozzie didn't say anything that everyone didn't already know any way"

it was not his job to say that.
he works for the sox,NOT THE CUBS!!!!!!!!!!!![/B]
So he's not allowed to comment about anything related to the other 29 teams. That's nuts.
Originally posted by red faber
and field managers don't have the power to sign players!!!!!

so,what are you talking about?????????????????????[/B]
That was my point exactly to those who suggested Guillen should be convincing Rodriguez to sign with the Sox. He doesn't have that power, and shouldn't.
Originally posted by red faber
and no i don't sox players and management to sugar coat reality.what i do want, is for them to show me that they sincerely want to win.

and if it didn't really make a difference to ozzie where i-rod plays.then why did he make comments that give the impression that it does make a difference????????? [/B]
In what part of the comment did Guillen say he did not want to win, or even give that impression. And if Irod stays in the NL, it does actually slightly increase the Sox playoff chances (although admittedly its a very tiny difference in the long run).

red faber
12-16-2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
So you're telling me that people who idolize beer are paying $35 and up per ticket and $6 per beer to simply drink beer when there are 100 bars in the neighborhood without a cover charge and $3 beer. I don't think so. And what do the players care anyway. Its a loud packed house. Some players actually prefer playing in that environment, regardless of the amount of alcohol involved.





Because the team was consistently losing and management was holding onto the profits. Both situations appear to have changed. We'll see if its temporary or permanent.




So he's not allowed to comment about anything related to the other 29 teams. That's nuts.







That was my point exactly to those who suggested Guillen should be convincing Rodriguez to sign with the Sox. He doesn't have that power, and shouldn't.



In what part of the comment did Guillen say he did not want to win, or even give that impression. And if Irod stays in the NL, it does actually slightly increase the Sox playoff chances (although admittedly its a very tiny difference in the long run).

okay,those people idolize wrigley field and beer!!!!!
there are you happy????

the fact is,people have been filling wrigley field up for the longest.and guess what,it ain't because of the players and they are going to go the bars after the game to get even more drunk any way,so what does the money matter to them??????

yeah ,and the cubs were consistently losing because their management was consistently holding onto the profits,and not investing that money into upgrading their team.

it's one thing to comment on different teams,it's another thing to damn near recuit players to other teams that you have no part of!!!

and what exactly is wrong with looking out for your team first???


and my comment about not having a commitment to winning was directed towards reinsdork.i never said that ozzie didn't want to win,so don't put words in my mouth!!!!!!!!


ozzie needs to think before he opens his mouth!!!!!!!!

red faber
12-17-2003, 02:23 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by doogiec
[B]So you're telling me that people who idolize beer are paying $35 and up per ticket and $6 per beer to simply drink beer when there are 100 bars in the neighborhood without a cover charge and $3 beer. I don't think so. And what do the players care anyway. Its a loud packed house. Some players actually prefer playing in that environment, regardless of the amount of alcohol involved.


yes,that is exactly what i'm telling you!!!!!!!!!!!!

i work in a bar around wrigley,so who would know better than me.

and i'll tell you,you will NOT get a beer for only $3.00 around there, especially on game day.

$4.00 if you're lucky,but definately NOT$3.00

and also those people who could just go to the bars to drink instead of going to wrigley to drink,go to the bars after the games to drink more beer anyway.and that is a fact.


and i would like to think that the players would want a crowd that is coherent and into the game.that's what they care!!!!!

KingXerxes
12-17-2003, 10:24 AM
This obesession of Cub fans and their motivations fascinates me. I have many, many Cub fan friends and they are every bit as knowledgable about baseball than all my White Sox fan friends. The times I have been to Wrigley Field, I've been somewhat amazed at the age of the fans attending - they're old compared to White Sox games (bleachers excepted). I imagined this was due to the fact that they have so many day games - it would make sense that you'd get a disproportionate amount of retirees in the crowd.

Am I living in Clown World? All I read about on these boards is how the average age of Wrigley Field attendees is around 22, I would have put the non-bleacher crowd around 72.

kittle42
12-17-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
All I read about on these boards is how the average age of Wrigley Field attendees is around 22, I would have put the non-bleacher crowd around 72.

Actually, I think that might also be the average IQs of those two groups, as well.

Dick Allen
12-17-2003, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by kittle42
Actually, I think that might also be the average IQs of those two groups, as well. I think you're estimating high.

doogiec
12-17-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
This obesession of Cub fans and their motivations fascinates me. I have many, many Cub fan friends and they are every bit as knowledgable about baseball than all my White Sox fan friends. The times I have been to Wrigley Field, I've been somewhat amazed at the age of the fans attending - they're old compared to White Sox games (bleachers excepted). I imagined this was due to the fact that they have so many day games - it would make sense that you'd get a disproportionate amount of retirees in the crowd.

Am I living in Clown World? All I read about on these boards is how the average age of Wrigley Field attendees is around 22, I would have put the non-bleacher crowd around 72.

The Cubs play in a neighborhood that tends to attract the yuppie crowd to live in. Lots of kids get their first professional job in the loop and automatically get their first apartment in the Lakeview neighborhood. They are usually single. As a result, the Cubs attract more than their share of young, well dressed drunks who have no history of following the team and little knowledge of the game. However, the Cubs also have a core group of fans who were raised Cub fans (and based on the age of the team, could be fourth or fifth generation Cub fans), who know the game as well or better than any Sox fan, and who support the Cubs pretty much regardless of record.

Although it is changing, the Sox play in a neighborhood that doesn't attract as many of the yuppie crowd. They do discount heavily, and tickets are easier to get, so they do tend to attract more than their share of the knuckleheads that just want to drink and fight. However, the Sox also have a core group of fans who were raised Sox fans (and based on the age of the team, could be fourth or fifth generation Sox fans), who know the game as well or better than any Cub fan, and who support the Sox pretty much regardless of record.

Therefore Cub fans attempt to identify all Sox fans as the drunken low class fighters. And Sox fans attempt to identify Cub fans as stupid drunken yuppies. And both are wrong.

Stereotyping is the easiest way for anyone with an IQ above that of an ant to convince themselves that they are better than someone else. Sox fans look at the drunken yuppie that can't name the starting pitcher and feel knowledgeable. Cub fans look at the Ligue's of the world brawling at Sox Park and feel superior.

Fire away.

doogiec
12-17-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by red faber
[QUOTE]Originally posted by doogiec
[B]yes,that is exactly what i'm telling you!!!!!!!!!!!!

i work in a bar around wrigley,so who would know better than me.

and i'll tell you,you will NOT get a beer for only $3.00 around there, especially on game day.

$4.00 if you're lucky,but definately NOT$3.00

and also those people who could just go to the bars to drink instead of going to wrigley to drink,go to the bars after the games to drink more beer anyway.and that is a fact.


and i would like to think that the players would want a crowd that is coherent and into the game.that's what they care!!!!!

I'll give you the $4 a beer argument. It been a few years since I've had a beer in the bars around there on a game day.

And while you would like to think that players want to play in front of a coherent crowd, I don't think they care. Whenever you see a free agent signing by any team, you see the same 10 reasons mentioned: Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Family, and Winning/Team environment.

I have never heard a player state that the coherency of the fans cheering was the reason for choosing a team. I've never heard a player complain about the blood alcohol level of the fans, as long as the fans stay off the field. But I have heard players comment on the noise level and atmosphere of particular stadiums thousands of times.

KingXerxes
12-17-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by doogiec
The Cubs play in a neighborhood that tends to attract the yuppie crowd to live in. Lots of kids get their first professional job in the loop and automatically get their first apartment in the Lakeview neighborhood. They are usually single. As a result, the Cubs attract more than their share of young, well dressed drunks who have no history of following the team and little knowledge of the game. However, the Cubs also have a core group of fans who were raised Cub fans (and based on the age of the team, could be fourth or fifth generation Cub fans), who know the game as well or better than any Sox fan, and who support the Cubs pretty much regardless of record.

Although it is changing, the Sox play in a neighborhood that doesn't attract as many of the yuppie crowd. They do discount heavily, and tickets are easier to get, so they do tend to attract more than their share of the knuckleheads that just want to drink and fight. However, the Sox also have a core group of fans who were raised Sox fans (and based on the age of the team, could be fourth or fifth generation Sox fans), who know the game as well or better than any Cub fan, and who support the Sox pretty much regardless of record.

Therefore Cub fans attempt to identify all Sox fans as the drunken low class fighters. And Sox fans attempt to identify Cub fans as stupid drunken yuppies. And both are wrong.

Stereotyping is the easiest way for anyone with an IQ above that of an ant to convince themselves that they are better than someone else. Sox fans look at the drunken yuppie that can't name the starting pitcher and feel knowledgeable. Cub fans look at the Ligue's of the world brawling at Sox Park and feel superior.

Fire away.

I realize that a lot of this is blind stereo-typing, but I'm telling you doogiec that I know some guys who fervently believe that nobody - and I literally mean nobody - watches the baseball game being played at Wrigley Field. These are not dummies, and they are convinced that 38,000 people all stand up and cheer spontaneously for some reason other than what is going on on the field of play. It's a very weird dynamic.

red faber
12-18-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by doogiec
I'll give you the $4 a beer argument. It been a few years since I've had a beer in the bars around there on a game day.

And while you would like to think that players want to play in front of a coherent crowd, I don't think they care. Whenever you see a free agent signing by any team, you see the same 10 reasons mentioned: Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Money, Family, and Winning/Team environment.

I have never heard a player state that the coherency of the fans cheering was the reason for choosing a team. I've never heard a player complain about the blood alcohol level of the fans, as long as the fans stay off the field. But I have heard players comment on the noise level and atmosphere of particular stadiums thousands of times.

good point,but i'm still pretty sure they care about the crowd.and whether they are into the game or not.because i seriously doubt that any player would want to play in front of 40,000 incoherent drunks..

and of course most of the reason they do it is for for the money,otherwise they would be doing something else for a living.i don't think there would be as many professional baseball players as there are if they were only making minimum wage doing it. you kind of overstated the obvious on that one...LOL!!!!!!!!!

i know that a crowd doesn't really influence the decisions of a player much,but i'm pretty sure that a jam packed coherent crowd that is on your side wouldn't exactly hurt them.heck you said it yourself, players like playing in front of large crowds.and a crowd that is interested in the game only adds to the atmosphere.


talk to ya later!!!!!!!!!!!!

red faber
12-18-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by doogiec
The Cubs play in a neighborhood that tends to attract the yuppie crowd to live in. Lots of kids get their first professional job in the loop and automatically get their first apartment in the Lakeview neighborhood. They are usually single. As a result, the Cubs attract more than their share of young, well dressed drunks who have no history of following the team and little knowledge of the game. However, the Cubs also have a core group of fans who were raised Cub fans (and based on the age of the team, could be fourth or fifth generation Cub fans), who know the game as well or better than any Sox fan, and who support the Cubs pretty much regardless of record.

Although it is changing, the Sox play in a neighborhood that doesn't attract as many of the yuppie crowd. They do discount heavily, and tickets are easier to get, so they do tend to attract more than their share of the knuckleheads that just want to drink and fight. However, the Sox also have a core group of fans who were raised Sox fans (and based on the age of the team, could be fourth or fifth generation Sox fans), who know the game as well or better than any Cub fan, and who support the Sox pretty much regardless of record.

Therefore Cub fans attempt to identify all Sox fans as the drunken low class fighters. And Sox fans attempt to identify Cub fans as stupid drunken yuppies. And both are wrong.

Stereotyping is the easiest way for anyone with an IQ above that of an ant to convince themselves that they are better than someone else. Sox fans look at the drunken yuppie that can't name the starting pitcher and feel knowledgeable. Cub fans look at the Ligue's of the world brawling at Sox Park and feel superior.

Fire away.


well said!!!

i hate to admit it,but i'm kind of guilty of doing that same generalizing.

although eric dybas IS a cub fan..