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Mr.Chicago
12-13-2003, 12:14 AM
This is from an article in the Tribune. Just thought some of you might find this interesting!

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-031212soxmain,1,725785.story?coll=cs-home-headlines


Interesting times Indeed...

MRKARNO
12-13-2003, 12:19 AM
Delete the story and just post the link

Frank the Tank
12-13-2003, 12:53 AM
This is kind of a scary article. In particular, I'm referring to:

"Williams, joined by team Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf at the winter meetings, said he's content with his lineup and eager to work in Willie Harris at second base and Aaron Rowand in center field".

I hope AR and WH will not be mainstays in our lineup next year. As far as I'm concerned Rowand is a 4th or 5th outfielder and Willie Harris has little value besides being a pinch runner.

MisterB
12-13-2003, 12:59 AM
It looks a lot like a factor in the hiring of Guillen was the possibility of a blowup with Thomas and his accepting a trade just to get out of this cockamamie organization. At this point, I can't say I'd blame him.

Mr.Chicago
12-13-2003, 01:55 AM
I think there is a lot more to this story than we know. Just a hunch... If and when Williams moves Frank, we will know more by seeing what Williams gets in return.

koch44
12-13-2003, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
It looks a lot like a factor in the hiring of Guillen was the possibility of a blowup with Thomas and his accepting a trade just to get out of this cockamamie organization. At this point, I can't say I'd blame him.

I would be really pissed to see Frank go because of Ozzie. :angry:

So, I feel that this would be a good solution...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid93/pd71d7947da8b2292f416787fdaa7c94e/fa504377.jpg

StepsInSC
12-13-2003, 03:01 AM
I've been on the "don't judge Ozzie till we see how he does" bandwagon but if Thomas, the reason I became a Sox fan, is gone because of him, then I'll be off that wagon extremely fast.

soxtalker
12-13-2003, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
This is kind of a scary article. In particular, I'm referring to:

"Williams, joined by team Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf at the winter meetings, said he's content with his lineup and eager to work in Willie Harris at second base and Aaron Rowand in center field".

I hope AR and WH will not be mainstays in our lineup next year. As far as I'm concerned Rowand is a 4th or 5th outfielder and Willie Harris has little value besides being a pinch runner.

What would you have Williams say? Like it or not (and many times I have not liked it), KW doesn't tend to show his cards. Many of his deals have been fairly big surprises.

There has been plenty of debate on numerous threads about both AR and WH. It isn't at all clear to me how comfortable KW feels about playing each of them. I suspect that those positions are not as high on his priority list as pitching.

surfdudes
12-13-2003, 10:48 AM
Let me get this straight........ We signed Frank Thomas for another year for 7 Million, then we carefully selected Ozzie Guillen as manager because he had the ability to "push" Frank out of town? And it part of some greater K.W. / J.R. conspiracy because they are not saying anything at the meetings?


I'm going outside to walk my dog. There is fresh air out there....

JRIG
12-13-2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by surfdudes
Let me get this straight........ We signed Frank Thomas for another year for 7 Million, then we carefully selected Ozzie Guillen as manager because he had the ability to "push" Frank out of town? And it part of some greater K.W. / J.R. conspiracy because they are not saying anything at the meetings?


I'm going outside to walk my dog. There is fresh air out there....

We didn't sign Frank for this season -- he exercised his option. Some here believe KW was counting on Frank declining that option. With him picking that up, it wrecked his payroll designs.

So, the theory that Ozzie was picked to help lead Frank out of town (approving a trade even though he's a 5 and 10 man) isn't that out of the realm of possibility, especially considering how Frank has been treated the past couple of years by the team.

Brian26
12-13-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by soxtalker
There has been plenty of debate on numerous threads about both AR and WH. It isn't at all clear to me how comfortable KW feels about playing each of them.

Don't be mislead. KW's not comfortable with either Harris or Crash. Remember last summer when we signed Everett and Alomar? Those trades weren't accidents. 6 months later, all of a sudden, Harris and Rowand are ready to be everyday major league players? No way.

surfdudes
12-13-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by JRIG
We didn't sign Frank for this season -- he exercised his option. Some here believe KW was counting on Frank declining that option. With him picking that up, it wrecked his payroll designs.

So, the theory that Ozzie was picked to help lead Frank out of town (approving a trade even though he's a 5 and 10 man) isn't that out of the realm of possibility, especially considering how Frank has been treated the past couple of years by the team.

It just sounds so X-Files to me, but all go with it. For now.
Just keep in mind ( I have been a fan of Frank from day one),
it has been a two way street on how He / The orginazation have treated one another. If he and Ozzie will not be men enough to "hammer out" their differences and create cohesiveness with this team, then I want them both outa town on the next train.

soxtalker
12-13-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Don't be mislead. KW's not comfortable with either Harris or Crash. Remember last summer when we signed Everett and Alomar? Those trades weren't accidents. 6 months later, all of a sudden, Harris and Rowand are ready to be everyday major league players? No way.

You are probably right. I think, however, that he'd be crazy to emphasize that, as it just gives other GM's ammunition in deals. Also, as I said in my earlier post, these probably aren't the highest priority issues that he has to deal with right now. He has a lot of time before the season starts, and he may wait on one or both until after the season is in progress (as he did last year).

Deadguy
12-13-2003, 11:24 AM
It's no big secret that KW wants Frank off this team. He obviously feels that Thomas just doesn't fit into his master plan for some reason.

First there was a trade last year with the Boston Red Sox that almost went down. Then there was the invoking of the DSC, one year after Thomas was trying to recover from a career threatening injury. Then there were the inferrences in the papers about how the Sox would not keep Thomas at 8 million dollars next season, and then there were the comments from KW how he was hoping for a DH/1B combo of Konerko and Nick Johnson next season.

The only reason Thomas is still a White Sox is because he is Reinsdorf's favorite player. Reinsdorf is the one who has stepped in every time to make sure that Thomas remained a White Sox.

I don't think the conspiracy theory that KW hired Ozzie under the grounds that they would try and alienate Thomas to the point that he would be willing to waive his 10 and 5 rights if a trade came up, is that far fetched. The article already indicated that Thomas will be willing to waive his rights, it's just a question of what kind of talent KW can get in return that is keeping Thomas on the Sox.

RichH55
12-13-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
It's no big secret that KW wants Frank off this team. He obviously feels that Thomas just doesn't fit into his master plan for some reason.

First there was a trade last year with the Boston Red Sox that almost went down. Then there was the invoking of the DSC, one year after Thomas was trying to recover from a career threatening injury. Then there were the inferrences in the papers about how the Sox would not keep Thomas at 8 million dollars next season, and then there were the comments from KW how he was hoping for a DH/1B combo of Konerko and Nick Johnson next season.

The only reason Thomas is still a White Sox is because he is Reinsdorf's favorite player. Reinsdorf is the one who has stepped in every time to make sure that Thomas remained a White Sox.

I don't think the conspiracy theory that KW hired Ozzie under the grounds that they would try and alienate Thomas to the point that he would be willing to waive his 10 and 5 rights if a trade came up, is that far fetched. The article already indicated that Thomas will be willing to waive his rights, it's just a question of what kind of talent KW can get in return that is keeping Thomas on the Sox.


Well then points for JR right? Or are we not allowed to say that?

Its only one compliment Lip...I urge you to calm down in advance

jabrch
12-13-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Deadguy
First there was a trade last year with the Boston Red Sox that almost went down. Then there was the invoking of the DSC, one year after Thomas was trying to recover from a career threatening injury. Then there were the inferrences in the papers about how the Sox would not keep Thomas at 8 million dollars next season, and then there were the comments from KW how he was hoping for a DH/1B combo of Konerko and Nick Johnson next season.

I don't think the conspiracy theory that KW hired Ozzie under the grounds that they would try and alienate Thomas to the point that he would be willing to waive his 10 and 5 rights if a trade came up, is that far fetched. The article already indicated that Thomas will be willing to waive his rights, it's just a question of what kind of talent KW can get in return that is keeping Thomas on the Sox.

Every player gets talked about in trades - there is nothing wrong with that. Frank and his hoarde should stop crying and be adults. The DSC was FRANKS OWN DOING. Had he not signed it, he wouldn't have had it put into play. If you owned a business and an employee met those qualifications, you would invoke DSC also. As far as not keeping him at 8mm, I don't blame them one bit. They made it perfectly clear to Frank that if he wanted to stay, he had to do so at 6mm. What's wrong with that? That's negotiation, that's leverage. That's baseball.

Conspiracy theory - run frank out of town - frankhaters - I still don't understand this crap. This is baseball and it is all part of the game today.

Deadguy
12-13-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by jabrch
Every player gets talked about in trades - there is nothing wrong with that. Frank and his hoarde should stop crying and be adults. The DSC was FRANKS OWN DOING. Had he not signed it, he wouldn't have had it put into play. If you owned a business and an employee met those qualifications, you would invoke DSC also. As far as not keeping him at 8mm, I don't blame them one bit. They made it perfectly clear to Frank that if he wanted to stay, he had to do so at 6mm. What's wrong with that? That's negotiation, that's leverage. That's baseball.

Conspiracy theory - run frank out of town - frankhaters - I still don't understand this crap. This is baseball and it is all part of the game today.

I have 0 problem with them invoking the DSC. I agreed with the move, since at nearly 10 million dollars, he was not worth the money considering the fact that he is a DH and his production in 2002 was not worth of that kind of money.

However, it still sends a message to a player that he is not wanted. The comments about also not wanting Thomas at 8 million dollars, Ozzie's comments about Thomas at the press conference, and then KW stating that he wouldn't mind a Johnson/Konerko combination next season all send a rather bold message that they don't want Thomas on the Sox in 2004.

Why else would they say or do these things if they weren't trying to alienate Thomas to the point that he would waive his 10 and 5 rights? There's no point to it since it doesn't really motivate Thomas to perform at a higher level next season, and it really leaves him feeling alienated and unwanted.

Thomas isn't being a baby here. He's simply feeling disrespected, which is what KW was obviously setting out to do.

RichH55
12-13-2003, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by jabrch
Every player gets talked about in trades - there is nothing wrong with that. Frank and his hoarde should stop crying and be adults. The DSC was FRANKS OWN DOING. Had he not signed it, he wouldn't have had it put into play. If you owned a business and an employee met those qualifications, you would invoke DSC also. As far as not keeping him at 8mm, I don't blame them one bit. They made it perfectly clear to Frank that if he wanted to stay, he had to do so at 6mm. What's wrong with that? That's negotiation, that's leverage. That's baseball.

Conspiracy theory - run frank out of town - frankhaters - I still don't understand this crap. This is baseball and it is all part of the game today.

Well unforunately I do think KW is not a Frank fan(though I definately am)

KW makes it clear he doesnt want Frank back at 8 million(part good business, part not)
Ozzie Manager( Obviously his "issues" with Frank did NOT get him the job, but they surely did not harm his chances either)
- At this point you can make life hell for Frank on a few fronts: pocket book, clubhouse(check and check to the extent it can be done)

Thirdly: Frank has made it very clear that the HOF matters to him

Question: If you are a hitter, who is not the greatest fielder, and you are looking to put up big numbers to ensure HOF(hopefully first ballot) where is the last place you want to play?


LA sounds like the right answer to me

For the Conspiracy throw in JR going to the meetings and you have something cooking


Is this the case? Probably(80% ) NOT, but its not FDR wanted everyone dead at Pearl Harbor crazy either