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View Full Version : Rumor: Sox, Mets, Rockies, Dodgers deal?


Jjav829
12-12-2003, 10:34 PM
Let me start this by saying I have absolutely no clue as to whether there is any truth to this as I didn't hear it, but posters on multiple ESPN boards claim that they heard on MLB Radio that the Sox, Mets, and Rockies were in a 3 hour meeting and that the meeting would be continued tonight. Some say it was 4 teams with the Dodgers being involved, some say 3. Heres a post from the Mets board. Once again I have no clue if there is even the slightest bit of truth to it, but with nothing happening today and with this board hoping for something to happen I figured I would post this.

According to Greg Rojas from MLB.com radio that the meeting is over and to be continue at 8 tonight. They saw Evans/Duke/Wilpon/williams/o'dowed coming out of the meetings. They try to get qoute from Duke/Jeff Wilpon/Williams/O'dowed and they all responded with no coment and quoted Evans "history could be made stay tune". Also quoted unname source from the whitesox who was at the meeting 13 names discuss including 4 franchise type players changing teams.

Sounds interesting. Did anyone here happen to be listening to MLB radio and hear this? I guess not since it probably would have been posted here if anyone heard it. Most we'll hear more tomorrow if there is any truth to this...

joecrede
12-12-2003, 10:54 PM
Four franchise type players:

Thomas
Ordonez
Helton
Piazza

Thomas to Dodgers
Ordonez to Mets
Piazza to Rockies
Helton to Sox

Konerko would probably go to Rockies since they would take on the least salary ... Just a guess. Interesting stuff JJav.

Jjav829
12-12-2003, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Four franchise type players:

Thomas
Ordonez
Helton
Piazza

Thomas to Dodgers
Ordonez to Mets
Piazza to Rockies
Helton to Sox

Konerko would probably go to Rockies since they would take on the least salary ... Just a guess. Interesting stuff JJav.

Yeah if that's even true. The ESPN posters have started throwing names around, but for all we know, if may be just the Koch to the Mets trade revisited with the Rockies added on this time.

Daver
12-12-2003, 11:00 PM
I highly doubt Thomas will accept a trade.

Win1ForMe
12-12-2003, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Four franchise type players:

Thomas
Ordonez
Helton
Piazza

Thomas to Dodgers
Ordonez to Mets
Piazza to Rockies
Helton to Sox

Konerko would probably go to Rockies since they would take on the least salary ... Just a guess. Interesting stuff JJav.

That would be an absolutely horrible trade for the Sox. There's just no reason to take on Helton's contract:

2003: $10.6M
2004: $11.6M
2005: $12.6M
2006: $16.6M
2007: $16.6M
2008: $16.6M
2009: $16.6M
2010: $16.6M
2011: $19.1M
2012: Team option $23.0M or $4.6M buyout

joecrede
12-12-2003, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829
Yeah if that's even true. The ESPN posters have started throwing names around, but for all we know, if may be just the Koch to the Mets trade revisited with the Rockies added on this time.

If it's true ... I'd like to ammend my previous post (speculation) and say the Dodgers not the Rockies would be the likely home for Piazza.

From reading the papers, the Rockies so want to get out of the Helton deal, that they'd probably be ecstatic to exchange it for the contracts of both Konerko and Koch.

in theory, the Sox could acquire Helton and save $22M for '04, but would lose Thomas and Ordonez.

santo=dorf
12-12-2003, 11:56 PM
So what the hell are the dodgers giving up in this deal? We lose two players for one guy with a huge contract? Please.

soxfan26
12-12-2003, 11:57 PM
I usually resist these but what the heck...

Based on these factors:

Sox and Rox need to shed payroll.

Mets and Dodgers are looking to improve

So...

Sox trade Koch and Konerko to the Mets.

Mets trade Konerko and agree to pay $2m of his salary to the Rox.

Rox trade Helton to the Dodgers.

Dodgers trade Perez to the Sox

Sox save about $9m and get Perez

Dodgers get Helton

Mets get Koch, and throw in $2m to make the deal happen

Rockies get Konerko, and a total savings of $5m

Too good to be true anyway, Koch and Konerko in the same deal? bah!

Hopefully we hear something in the morning. Go KW!

MRKARNO
12-13-2003, 12:10 AM
There is no reason to believe that Helton will appear in a White Sox uniform next year. If the sox are dealing, they're dealing bats for arms

joecrede
12-13-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by santo=dorf
So what the hell are the dodgers giving up in this deal? We lose two players for one guy with a huge contract? Please.

I'm speculating here, but the Dodgers might give up guys like LaDuca, Mota, Weaver. Going where? who knows ...

Certainly Helton has a huge contract, but he's a great hitter and the Sox have enough payroll flexibillity to absorb that contract for at least the next few years.

Anyway, this is fun even if there isn't a single shred of truth to it. :gulp:

Brian26
12-13-2003, 12:16 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
Four franchise type players:

Thomas
Ordonez
Helton
Piazza

Thomas to Dodgers
Ordonez to Mets
Piazza to Rockies
Helton to Sox

Konerko would probably go to Rockies since they would take on the least salary ... Just a guess. Interesting stuff JJav.

Huh? What are you smoking? The Sox would give up Mags AND Frank AND Konerko, and they would only get one player in return? That's absurd.

MRKARNO
12-13-2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by joecrede
Certainly Helton has a huge contract, but he's a great hitter and the Sox have enough payroll flexibillity to absorb that contract for at least the next few years.


If they're stuggling with Maggs for one year, how will they deal with the 15-19 mil per that Helton will command till '09?

mac9001
12-13-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Daver
I highly doubt Thomas will accept a trade.

When Frank signed his new deal last year, he agreed to give up his 10/5 rights. So, he no longer has a "no-trade" clause.

MisterB
12-13-2003, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by mac9001
When Frank signed his new deal last year, he agreed to give up his 10/5 rights. So, he no longer has a "no-trade" clause.

You cannot waive 10/5 rights. It is a part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. A player may choose not to exercise the right and accept a trade, but the right itself cannot be given up. Period.

mac9001
12-13-2003, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by MisterB
You cannot waive 10/5 rights. It is a part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. A player may choose not to exercise the right and accept a trade, but the right itself cannot be given up. Period.

I remember reading an article a while back (some LA paper), saying something about how Frank wavied his 10/5 rights when he signed the new deal last season. But if you say it can't be done, i believe you.

MarqSox
12-13-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Daver
I highly doubt Thomas will accept a trade.
You may be right, but A) Thomas doesn't like Guillen, and B) His contract stipulates he gets an extra $2 million if he's traded.

Dadawg_77
12-13-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by mac9001
I remember reading an article a while back (some LA paper), saying something about how Frank wavied his 10/5 rights when he signed the new deal last season. But if you say it can't be done, i believe you.

By US Law no employee can give up any right contained in a CBA.

lowesox
12-13-2003, 12:46 AM
The more I think about it, the more I think Thomas has played his last game as a WhiteSox. Is it possible that management could let themselves lose Thomas and Ordonez within 2 offseasons?

nodiggity59
12-13-2003, 01:30 AM
Off topic but the ESPN board sucks

Chisoxfn
12-13-2003, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by mac9001
I remember reading an article a while back (some LA paper), saying something about how Frank wavied his 10/5 rights when he signed the new deal last season. But if you say it can't be done, i believe you.

I remember that exactly. I think the contract stated that he would not invoke his 10/5 rights and that he would accept a trade anywhere. I thought that was one of the major reasons they renegotiated the deal.

CLR01
12-13-2003, 03:51 AM
From Whitesox.com


http://whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20031213&content_id=616704&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cha


Hopefully JR went along to make sure KW didnt try to unload Thomas.

CLR01
12-13-2003, 03:56 AM
Williams did not arrive in New Orleans until early Friday night, after his flight was delayed out of Chicago and he dealt with traffic and a long and winding cab ride to the hotel where the meetings are taking place. But the White Sox general manager didn't seem overly worried about missing out on any big moves during the first day of the weekend session.


If KW didnt arrive until Friday evening this is nothing more than a Mets fan with his head up his ass.

jordan23ventura
12-13-2003, 09:16 AM
Helton would be a major upgrade. Essentially it replaces Thomas' production at first base and Konerkos defense, who could both be traded as a result. As far as the end of his contract, I'm sure something could be arranged if the team couldn't pay him.

One other question. Does anyone know what Larry Walker is making? I'm sure its pretty high, but if he came cheap he would be a nice lefty DH. But then again, since we're once again talking fantasy (i.e. Maddux, Griffey, etc.), why not throw Preston Wilson in the mix. Koch, Konerko, Thomas and Ordonez for Wilson and Helton in a multi-team deal. Not certain how much that would help the team financially but oh well.

wassagstdu
12-13-2003, 11:15 AM
Sox likely to stand pat according to KW? Does that mean we didn't really lose Colon, Gordon, Sullivan, Alomar, and Everett?

SoxxoS
12-13-2003, 11:48 AM
How many other people in here would LOVE to acquire Paul LoDuca? I know I would.

DirtySouthsider
12-13-2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
How many other people in here would LOVE to acquire Paul LoDuca? I know I would.


I agree. LoDuca is a great hard nosed player....but where do you play him? He's primarily a catcher....so would you give up Olivo or would you move LoDuca to 1st?

TheRockinMT
12-13-2003, 11:54 AM
It's great to start thinking wild and wonderful things when reports like this come out, but the Sox giving up three stars in Konerko, the Big Hurt and Maggs and getting Helton... please calm down people. I wouldn't be all that amazed if a big three or four team trade with the Sox involved did happen since Kenny likes those high impact and creative dealings, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

joecrede
12-13-2003, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Brian26
Huh? What are you smoking? The Sox would give up Mags AND Frank AND Konerko, and they would only get one player in return? That's absurd.

Getting rid of Konerko would be a good thing and the the only way to accomplish that might be to package him with Ordonez. Helton is as good an offensive player, maybe even better than Ordonez.

The Thomas part of the deal might be necessary for a team to take Koch and send a pitcher back to the Sox.

SoxxoS
12-13-2003, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by DirtySouthsider
I agree. LoDuca is a great hard nosed player....but where do you play him? He's primarily a catcher....so would you give up Olivo or would you move LoDuca to 1st?

I think LoDuca and Olivo can split the catching duties, and we can stick LoDuca out in LF in a pinch. I believe he can play some outfield, but don't quote me on that.

SoxxoS
12-13-2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Helton is as good an offensive player, maybe even better than Ordonez.

I was going to write, "maybe?" No, Helton is a better offensive player than Ordonez. Then I looked at Helton's stats, and there is a LOT bigger difference at Coors than on the road.

10 homers on the road, 23 at Coors.
.391 at home (wow) and .324 on the road.
1.219 OPS at Coors. .949 on the road.

Hmmm.

DirtySouthsider
12-13-2003, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I was going to write, "maybe?" No, Helton is a better offensive player than Ordonez. Then I looked at Helton's stats, and there is a LOT bigger difference at Coors than on the road.

10 homers on the road, 23 at Coors.
.391 at home (wow) and .324 on the road.
1.219 OPS at Coors. .949 on the road.

Hmmm.


I didn't really want Helton in the first place but now after reading that I reall don't want him.

I still think he's a great player but how does getting a great first baseman really solve our problems? We need a CF, 2B and most of all SP......and also bullpen help!

This move solves none of that.....plus he's got a huge contract. This trade would set the Sox back.

joecrede
12-13-2003, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by MRKARNO
If they're stuggling with Maggs for one year, how will they deal with the 15-19 mil per that Helton will command till '09?

They're struggling because of Koch and Konerko's contracts, not Maggs.

According to a previous post, Helton will make $11.6M for '04 and $12.6M for '05. (less than $14M for Maggs in '04.) Helton's contract escalates to $16.6M beginning in '06. What would it cost the Sox to keep Ordonez though?

He probably wouldn't agree to a contract extension for anything less than the $14M per year he's making now before tessting the free-agent market and once he goes on the market the Red Sox, as an example with their willingness to trade for A-Rod, certainly have the means to push his salary beyond what he's making now. So the Sox might save some money in the short term with Helton instead of Ordonez. Long-term that's another issue with Helton, but maybe the Chairman doesn't care about 2008 and beyond.

joecrede
12-13-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by SoxxoS
I was going to write, "maybe?" No, Helton is a better offensive player than Ordonez. Then I looked at Helton's stats, and there is a LOT bigger difference at Coors than on the road.

10 homers on the road, 23 at Coors.
.391 at home (wow) and .324 on the road.
1.219 OPS at Coors. .949 on the road.

Hmmm.

Helton's road OPS of .949 was better than Ordonez's overall OPS of .926.

joecrede
12-13-2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by DirtySouthsider
I didn't really want Helton in the first place but now after reading that I reall don't want him.

I still think he's a great player but how does getting a great first baseman really solve our problems? We need a CF, 2B and most of all SP......and also bullpen help!

This move solves none of that.....plus he's got a huge contract. This trade would set the Sox back.

It would go a long way in solving the Sox problems this year if getting Helton were part of a biffer deal that allowed them to rid themselves of Koch and Konerko's salaries. Along with Thomas and Ordonez salaries, they would save $22M this year and have Helton.

SoxxoS
12-13-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by joecrede
Helton's road OPS of .949 was better than Ordonez's overall OPS of .926.

True, but 1B is a lot easier to fill than RF. I think Ordonez's defense more than makes up for it.