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View Full Version : Comparing Chicago to Other AL Central Cities


jordan23ventura
12-12-2003, 01:04 AM
I was inspired to compile this after reading a post detailing the frustrations of Cub fans who think $85-90 mil is not enough for payroll. I am not exactly backing them, but because the NL Central (Houston, St. Louis) is a larger market than the AL Central the Cubs would have a right to request a little more to stay competitive, whereas if the Sox were given that amount it would go much further against the AL Central.

The only reason I say this is because I think it is an insult to Chicago baseball fans in general to not spend $85-90 mil per year on a team in the first place, especially in a situation where it can easily be won by five or ten games with $60-70. I believe big cities should compete against big cities. Chicago teams, being in the 3rd largest market, should be able to compete with NYC and LA teams, but that's not how it is on the South Side. Here's Chicago:

Based on 2000 census:
Chicago:
pop: 2,896,016 (rank 3rd in US)
known for: Sears tower, the mob, michigan avenue, great fire, and lots and lots of cool stuff

This is what the AL Chicago team is competing against:

Detroit:
pop: 951,270 (rank 10th)
known for: factories, ghettos, Eminem and Kid Rock

Minneapolis + St. Paul:
pop: 669,769 (rank 16th only when combined, 45th and 58th individually)
known for: a mall with a rollercoaster, Jesse Ventura, frequent confusion with Canada

Cleveland:
pop: 478,403 (rank 33rd)
known for: rock n' roll hall of fame, a sea world, movies Major League 1 and 2

Kansas City:
pop: 441,545 (rank 36th)
known for: "the city of waterfalls," being mistakenly identified as the capital of Kansas

Instead of wiping the floor with these teams the White Sox are COMPETING with them? WHY???? This is not an expansion team! The Sox should be worrying about ALCS victories over the Yankees, not hoping to squeeze by the Twins.

DSpivack
12-12-2003, 01:10 AM
You forget we are small market team. It's the fan's fault!

Frank the Tank
12-12-2003, 01:20 AM
Chicago is definetly a huge market for sports teams, but you are not taking one thing into account. As much as I hate it, Chicago is a Cubs city. I don't think there is an equal split between cubs and sox fans. Right now I think Chicago is at least 65% Cubs. Making things worse, the media doesn't even know the White Sox exist. A last place Cubs team will usually get more media coverage than a first place White Sox team.

joeynach
12-12-2003, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Chicago is definetly a huge market for sports teams, but you are not taking one thing into account. As much as I hate it, Chicago is a Cubs city. I don't think there is an equal split between cubs and sox fans. Right now I think Chicago is at least 65% Cubs. Making things worse, the media doesn't even know the White Sox exist. A last place Cubs team will usually get more media coverage than a first place White Sox team.

Seriously, i like to compare the cubs to notre dame of college football. Its like you could hang a charm with the next to the name cubs. Something about a consistent losing team that does it graciously or something i dont know. Like notre dame had a horrible season but gets every non important game televised nationally and gets chicago espn 1000 broadcasting them on saturdays of illinois or nwestern. Until the cubs are exposed from the lovable frauds they are we are 2nd in this town. Ask met fans they know exactly how we feel. BUT WE KEEP FIGHTING.

mikef1331
12-12-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura

Minneapolis + St. Paul:
pop: 669,769 (rank 16th only when combined, 45th and 58th individually)
known for: a mall with a rollercoaster, Jesse Ventura, frequent confusion with Canada


How could you forget PRINCE! :D:

Frank the Tank
12-12-2003, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by joeynach
Seriously, i like to compare the cubs to notre dame of college football. Its like you could hang a charm with the next to the name cubs. Something about a consistent losing team that does it graciously or something i dont know.

Are you kidding? How can you possible compare the cubs to Notre Dame football? If you want to compare Notre Dame to a baseball team, they are much more like the Yankees.

11 National Championships (Most in College Football)
8 Heisman Trophy Winners (Most in college Football)

Notre Dame gets the fan appeal and media attention because of what they once were (a lot of winning in the past). The cubs have always been garbage. I have no idea what the cubs have done to warrant such a fan following. Better yet, what the hell do they see in Wrigley Field?

StillMissOzzie
12-12-2003, 03:43 AM
If they did payrolls by city populations, then Chicago's should be the sum of the rest of the AL Central division COMBINED. Then we're REALLY underspending!!!

SMO
:gulp:

Realist
12-12-2003, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Chicago is definetly a huge market for sports teams, but you are not taking one thing into account. As much as I hate it, Chicago is a Cubs city. I don't think there is an equal split between cubs and sox fans. Right now I think Chicago is at least 65% Cubs. Making things worse, the media doesn't even know the White Sox exist. A last place Cubs team will usually get more media coverage than a first place White Sox team.

Good post full of facts. The one thing that is never brought up on these "Sox vs. Cubs" threads is CAPITALISM. Let's face it folks, we live in an economy driven by profit and it just so happens that gentrification and immigration to Chicago begins on the northside. THAT'S what's driving the media to worship those slack jawwed-bag licking-yuppie scum Cubs (sorry Lee Elia, your rant is very outdated).

Chicago is in a period of major change. While it was once all the rage for Chicagoans to flee the city to the suburbs for a better life for their families, it is now all the rage for suburban white folk to move back to the city and try to establish "suburbanesque" lifestyles within an urban setting. I suppose it's so they can attach the tag "worldly" to their existance. I dunno.

Anyway, that's the trend. When some hayseed from Nebraska or Iowa decides to move to Chicago (the 2nd CITY), they immediately begin asking around for the best place to live and the answer is - "The North Side... around Wrigleyville... it's safe".

So these semi-affluent white folks from Greengrass, Iowa move to Chicago. They move to Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Bucktown, and Lakeview and hope they don't get shot or mugged in the "big city". In the mean time, whether they know it or not, they've landed in "Cubbieland" and being the sheep that humans tend to be, they jump on the "Cubbiebandwagon" because they're completely emersed in it. I've seen it constantly for 3 years (bartending for these same sheep 4 blocks from the Urinal).

So... now we've got tons of folks on their way UP the economic ladder saturating Chicago, but it's only on the NORTHside and they become instant Flub fans. Next... the gawdforsaken corporate media realises that these are the folks driving our economy and the advertisers' paychecks up, so they begin to avalanche us with Flubbie propoganda.

We're fighting an uphill battle. We're no longer "The City of Big Shoulders", or the Back of the Yards, or the Steel Mills (south eastside, where I'm from :smile: ). We're the city of Jettas, Starbucks, track lighting, and "shhhhh... be quiet.... it's after 9pm and my babies, Biff and Jennifer, are trying to sleep".

In the past, the White Sox flourished in Chicago because we were always a "blue collar" town. As the urban mise en scene shifts from rolled up sleaves and an honest day's work for an honest day's dollar to "what does it take for me to make a quick easy buck", the Chicago White Sox and what they and their fans have always represented fade more and more into the sunset.

That's not to say I'm giving up without a fight!! Go White Sox!! Die Yuppie Scum!! .... and not to forget... CUBS SUCK!! (with teeth)

kempsted
12-12-2003, 08:49 AM
When looking at the Cubs-Sox I think you also can't forget the effect of WGN and the Cubs being more of a national team than the Sox.

I used to live in Columbus Ohio and I wanted to follow a team day in and day out. The Indians at the time were very bad and hardly ever on TV, the Cubs were very bad and always on TV. They also had a drunk announcer that slurred. How cool is that. Steve Stone offered real baseball incite. So I became a Cubs fan. Go to a bookstore - in or out of Chicago - there are a ton on Cubs books. Good luck finding a White Sox book.

So when I arrived in Chicago I was a Cubs fan already and moved to West Rodgers park - so I am on the North side.

Now this effect is much less now because WGN doesn't broadcast as many Cubs games as they used to.

Also going with what the previous poster said about Wrigglyville - if Bridgeport gets rebuilt and becomes a hot place, you also have Hyde Park re-gentrifying - the White Sox could benefit. In fact that would have more to do with a White Sox resurgence than anything the club can do themselves.

bestkosher
12-12-2003, 08:55 AM
are you still a flub fan, you never noted in your message of the change

Tekijawa
12-12-2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura
Cleveland:
pop: 478,403 (rank 33rd)
known for: rock n' roll hall of fame, a sea world, movies Major League 1 and 2


How could you forget Major League 3 back to the Minors and The fact that Lake Erie was actually Poluted enough to catch on fire! It's not very often that a Body of Watter becomes Combustable
!

DSpivack
12-12-2003, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa
and The fact that Lake Erie was actually Poluted enough to catch on fire! It's not very often that a Body of Watter becomes Combustable
!

Was it Lake Erie? I thought it was the river there.

PaulDrake
12-12-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Realist
Good post full of facts. The one thing that is never brought up on these "Sox vs. Cubs" threads is CAPITALISM. Let's face it folks, we live in an economy driven by profit and it just so happens that gentrification and immigration to Chicago begins on the northside. THAT'S what's driving the media to worship those slack jawwed-bag licking-yuppie scum Cubs (sorry Lee Elia, your rant is very outdated).

Chicago is in a period of major change. While it was once all the rage for Chicagoans to flee the city to the suburbs for a better life for their families, it is now all the rage for suburban white folk to move back to the city and try to establish "suburbanesque" lifestyles within an urban setting. I suppose it's so they can attach the tag "worldly" to their existance. I dunno.

Anyway, that's the trend. When some hayseed from Nebraska or Iowa decides to move Chicago (the 2nd CITY), they immediately begin asking around for the best place to live and the answer is - "The North Side... around Wrigleyville... it's safe".

So these semi-affluent white folks from Greengrass, Iowa move to Chicago, they move to Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Bucktown, Lakeview, and hope they don't get shot or mugged in the "big city". In the mean time, whether they know it or not, they've landed in "Cubbieland" and being the sheep that humans tend to be, they jump on the "Cubbiebandwagon" because they're completely emersed in it. I've seen it constantly for 3 years (bartending for these same sheep 4 blocks from the Urinal).

So... now we've got tons of folks on their way UP the economic ladder saturating Chicago, but it's only on the NORTHside and they become instant Flub fans. Next... the gawdforsaken corporate media realises that these are the folks driving our economy and the advertisers' paychecks up, so they begin to avalanche us with Flubbie propoganda.

We're fighting an uphill battle. We're no longer "The City of Big Shoulders", or the Back of the Yards, or the Steel Mills (south eastside, where I'm from :smile: ). We're the city of Jettas, Starbucks, track lighting, and "shhhhh... be quiet.... it's after 9pm and my babies, Biff and Jennifer, are trying to sleep".

In the past, the White Sox flourished in Chicago because we were always a "blue collar" town. As the urban mise en scene shifts from rolled up sleaves and an honest day's work for an honest day's dollar to "what does it take for me to make a quick easy buck", the Chicago White Sox and what they and their fans have always represented fade more and more into the sunset.

That's not to say I'm giving up without a fight!! Go White Sox!! Die Yuppie Scum!! .... and not to forget... CUBS SUCK!! (with teeth) Great post. Chicago is not even close to the same town I grew up in. The demographic changes have not been favorable to the White Sox.

DSpivack
12-12-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Realist
In the past, the White Sox flourished in Chicago because we were always a "blue collar" town. As the urban mise en scene shifts from rolled up sleaves and an honest day's work for an honest day's dollar to "what does it take for me to make a quick easy buck", the Chicago White Sox and what they and their fans have always represented fade more and more into the sunset.

That's not to say I'm giving up without a fight!! Go White Sox!! Die Yuppie Scum!! .... and not to forget... CUBS SUCK!! (with teeth)

The White Sox may be the 'blue collar' team, but then I question why people like me become White Sox fans. I am, more or less, a north sider as I am from Evanston. Quite a few of my friends are also Sox fans; I guess we just saw through the Cubbie BS. Working at a very yuppie grocery store this past summer, many customers would question my Sox hat, 'what are you doing here', bla bla bla. Annoying!

I was never happier as a Sox fan, in terms of interaction with other people. As for the team..... that's a whole 'nother issue.

But wouldn't JR be happy to see a thread like this? Does it not further his belief in a small market team; that Flub fans 'show up' leads to a big market team [how long has this been true? seems only like a few years now that the Flubs are actually spending money, and by spending money I mean not to Mel Rojas].

doublem23
12-12-2003, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Chicago is definetly a huge market for sports teams, but you are not taking one thing into account. As much as I hate it, Chicago is a Cubs city. I don't think there is an equal split between cubs and sox fans. Right now I think Chicago is at least 65% Cubs. Making things worse, the media doesn't even know the White Sox exist. A last place Cubs team will usually get more media coverage than a first place White Sox team.

I honestly believe Chicago is split very evenly between "real Sox" and "real Cubs" fans... maube abour 25-33%... The problem is the rest of the fans that kind of sway between either team based on winning, etc. have been drifting Cubs since, at least the strike. When was the last year the Sox outdrew the Cubs? 1994, IIRC. Despite what they'll have you believe, Chicago has not always been a "Cubs town." For most of baseball, Chicago has been a Sox town. We've just fumbled it away.

doublem23
12-12-2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Tekijawa


How could you forget Major League 3 back to the Minors

I don't think he forgot... there was just no mention of Salt Lake City.


Originally posted by DSpivack


Was it Lake Erie? I thought it was the river there.

In all likelyhood the river probably has been set on fire a few times, but the big one is, yes, they set Lake Erie on fire. Way to go, Cleveland!

PS... If you ever go to the Rock and Roll Hall of fame, be prepared to gag on the lake-side walk over. God damn, does that town smell.

FanOf14
12-12-2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by doublem23
PS... If you ever go to the Rock and Roll Hall of fame, be prepared to gag on the lake-side walk over. God damn, does that town smell.

The sad thing is this is AFTER the major cleanup they did after they burned the lake.

Anyone remember the 'commercial' SNL did about Lake Erie water? They are pouring 'water' that's thicker than shampoo and has cigarette butts and pop tops from cans in it while they are singin 'Anticipation' in the background. Absolutely hysterical! :D:

Frank the Tank
12-12-2003, 11:13 AM
To add to the discussion, it seems we are really hurting with the younger crowd. I think that the only young people that like the sox are the ones that grow up in Sox fan households. I bet there are more teenage/young adult Cubs fans than Sox fans in the South burbs now. On a happier note, like any trend, the Cubs fascination has to slow down. I am not that old, but I don't remember the cubs being the popular thing until the early 90's. Furthermore, I don't think Wrigley became such a hit until all the old parks were demolished. I don't think the Sox will ever match the Cubs appeal in this city, but we can certainly close the gap. Right now, this is how I would break down the Chicago fan base:

1/5 - White Sox fans
2/5 - Cubs fans
2/5 - Casual fan (Most go to Wrigley, but many go to the Cell when the sox are playing well).

I think where we really hurt is the last 2/5, the casual fan. Right now the Cubs are the hot ticket in town. The White Sox have to play well in order to attract the casual fans. Hopefully the renovations will help to improve the image of USCF.

Tekijawa
12-12-2003, 11:20 AM
With a little Luck this could all change... here's why I'm hoping for...

Kerry Wood... Another Arm Injury
Mark Prior... Sophomore Jinx (Highly unlikely)

Houston gets hot!

Cubs finish out of the race.

That could turn the tide pretty quickly I think

DSpivack
12-12-2003, 11:30 AM
More likely:

Alou's age catches up with him, he gets injured often.

Patterson takes awhile to come back, especially 100%.

Sosa's power numbers continue their descent, yet his K's continue to climb the career list.

Prior is as awesome as he was.

Kerry Wood further proves he'll never be Prior, as he walks a lot of guys, gives up many HR's, as well as HBPs.

Matt Clement returns to mediocrity.

Zambrano is decent, and ends up being the 2nd best pitcher.

LaTroy Hawkins is a really good set up man, but fails in the closer's role when Joe Borowski finally acts like he is supposed to.

Not to mention the two G-Men [Gonzo, Grudz.] keep on being mediocre; Miller and Bako still not being able to hit.

ihatethecubs
12-12-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Realist
Good post full of facts. The one thing that is never brought up on these "Sox vs. Cubs" threads is CAPITALISM. Let's face it folks, we live in an economy driven by profit and it just so happens that gentrification and immigration to Chicago begins on the northside. THAT'S what's driving the media to worship those slack jawwed-bag licking-yuppie scum Cubs (sorry Lee Elia, your rant is very outdated).

Chicago is in a period of major change. While it was once all the rage for Chicagoans to flee the city to the suburbs for a better life for their families, it is now all the rage for suburban white folk to move back to the city and try to establish "suburbanesque" lifestyles within an urban setting. I suppose it's so they can attach the tag "worldly" to their existance. I dunno.

Anyway, that's the trend. When some hayseed from Nebraska or Iowa decides to move Chicago (the 2nd CITY), they immediately begin asking around for the best place to live and the answer is - "The North Side... around Wrigleyville... it's safe".

So these semi-affluent white folks from Greengrass, Iowa move to Chicago, they move to Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Bucktown, Lakeview, and hope they don't get shot or mugged in the "big city". In the mean time, whether they know it or not, they've landed in "Cubbieland" and being the sheep that humans tend to be, they jump on the "Cubbiebandwagon" because they're completely emersed in it. I've seen it constantly for 3 years (bartending for these same sheep 4 blocks from the Urinal).

So... now we've got tons of folks on their way UP the economic ladder saturating Chicago, but it's only on the NORTHside and they become instant Flub fans. Next... the gawdforsaken corporate media realises that these are the folks driving our economy and the advertisers' paychecks up, so they begin to avalanche us with Flubbie propoganda.

We're fighting an uphill battle. We're no longer "The City of Big Shoulders", or the Back of the Yards, or the Steel Mills (south eastside, where I'm from :smile: ). We're the city of Jettas, Starbucks, track lighting, and "shhhhh... be quiet.... it's after 9pm and my babies, Biff and Jennifer, are trying to sleep".

In the past, the White Sox flourished in Chicago because we were always a "blue collar" town. As the urban mise en scene shifts from rolled up sleaves and an honest day's work for an honest day's dollar to "what does it take for me to make a quick easy buck", the Chicago White Sox and what they and their fans have always represented fade more and more into the sunset.

That's not to say I'm giving up without a fight!! Go White Sox!! Die Yuppie Scum!! .... and not to forget... CUBS SUCK!! (with teeth)

brilliant

Foulke You
12-12-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
Anyone remember the 'commercial' SNL did about Lake Erie water? They are pouring 'water' that's thicker than shampoo and has cigarette butts and pop tops from cans in it while they are singin 'Anticipation' in the background. Absolutely hysterical! :D:

HAHA! I remember that. It was the Bill Murray fake SNL commercial for the bottled water "Swill". The slogan was "That's why I drink Swill. Dredged from the finest corners of Lake Erie." :D:

voodoochile
12-12-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by Realist
Good post full of facts. The one thing that is never brought up on these "Sox vs. Cubs" threads is CAPITALISM. Let's face it folks, we live in an economy driven by profit and it just so happens that gentrification and immigration to Chicago begins on the northside. THAT'S what's driving the media to worship those slack jawwed-bag licking-yuppie scum Cubs (sorry Lee Elia, your rant is very outdated).

Chicago is in a period of major change. While it was once all the rage for Chicagoans to flee the city to the suburbs for a better life for their families, it is now all the rage for suburban white folk to move back to the city and try to establish "suburbanesque" lifestyles within an urban setting. I suppose it's so they can attach the tag "worldly" to their existance. I dunno.

Anyway, that's the trend. When some hayseed from Nebraska or Iowa decides to move Chicago (the 2nd CITY), they immediately begin asking around for the best place to live and the answer is - "The North Side... around Wrigleyville... it's safe".

So these semi-affluent white folks from Greengrass, Iowa move to Chicago, they move to Wrigleyville, Lincoln Park, Bucktown, Lakeview, and hope they don't get shot or mugged in the "big city". In the mean time, whether they know it or not, they've landed in "Cubbieland" and being the sheep that humans tend to be, they jump on the "Cubbiebandwagon" because they're completely emersed in it. I've seen it constantly for 3 years (bartending for these same sheep 4 blocks from the Urinal).

So... now we've got tons of folks on their way UP the economic ladder saturating Chicago, but it's only on the NORTHside and they become instant Flub fans. Next... the gawdforsaken corporate media realises that these are the folks driving our economy and the advertisers' paychecks up, so they begin to avalanche us with Flubbie propoganda.

We're fighting an uphill battle. We're no longer "The City of Big Shoulders", or the Back of the Yards, or the Steel Mills (south eastside, where I'm from :smile: ). We're the city of Jettas, Starbucks, track lighting, and "shhhhh... be quiet.... it's after 9pm and my babies, Biff and Jennifer, are trying to sleep".

In the past, the White Sox flourished in Chicago because we were always a "blue collar" town. As the urban mise en scene shifts from rolled up sleaves and an honest day's work for an honest day's dollar to "what does it take for me to make a quick easy buck", the Chicago White Sox and what they and their fans have always represented fade more and more into the sunset.

That's not to say I'm giving up without a fight!! Go White Sox!! Die Yuppie Scum!! .... and not to forget... CUBS SUCK!! (with teeth)
It's a little long, but otherwise, POTW (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13&id=2417). Well said...

SouthSideHitman
12-12-2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by DSpivack
Was it Lake Erie? I thought it was the river there.

Yep, the Cuyahoga River indeed caught fire, it is best depicted in Randy Newman's song "Burn On" with the famous line, "Cleeeveland, city of light, city of magic!"

Also Kansas City is the City of Fountains, there are very few waterfalls on the great plains.

jordan23ventura
12-12-2003, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Tekijawa


How could you forget Major League 3 back to the Minors and The fact that Lake Erie was actually Poluted enough to catch on fire! It's not very often that a Body of Watter becomes Combustable
!


Unfortunately I did not forget about Major League 3. I hoped everybody else would have. The last thing I wanted to do was remind anybody.

jordan23ventura
12-12-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
Chicago is definetly a huge market for sports teams, but you are not taking one thing into account. As much as I hate it, Chicago is a Cubs city. I don't think there is an equal split between cubs and sox fans. Right now I think Chicago is at least 65% Cubs. Making things worse, the media doesn't even know the White Sox exist. A last place Cubs team will usually get more media coverage than a first place White Sox team.


You also have to take into consideration that the Chicago area itself is densely populated. There are a lot of people living wiithin 45 minutes of the Cell where unlike every other city in the Central there is basically a bunch of nothing. These people will gladly make the trip if they have a reason to do so.

Realist
12-12-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
It's a little long, but otherwise, POTW (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=13&id=2417). Well said...

Thank you very much. I'm truly honored. :smile:

red faber
12-13-2003, 03:50 AM
Originally posted by jordan23ventura
I was inspired to compile this after reading a post detailing the frustrations of Cub fans who think $85-90 mil is not enough for payroll. I am not exactly backing them, but because the NL Central (Houston, St. Louis) is a larger market than the AL Central the Cubs would have a right to request a little more to stay competitive, whereas if the Sox were given that amount it would go much further against the AL Central.

The only reason I say this is because I think it is an insult to Chicago baseball fans in general to not spend $85-90 mil per year on a team in the first place, especially in a situation where it can easily be won by five or ten games with $60-70. I believe big cities should compete against big cities. Chicago teams, being in the 3rd largest market, should be able to compete with NYC and LA teams, but that's not how it is on the South Side. Here's Chicago:

Based on 2000 census:
Chicago:
pop: 2,896,016 (rank 3rd in US)
known for: Sears tower, the mob, michigan avenue, great fire, and lots and lots of cool stuff

This is what the AL Chicago team is competing against:

Detroit:
pop: 951,270 (rank 10th)
known for: factories, ghettos, Eminem and Kid Rock

Minneapolis + St. Paul:
pop: 669,769 (rank 16th only when combined, 45th and 58th individually)
known for: a mall with a rollercoaster, Jesse Ventura, frequent confusion with Canada

Cleveland:
pop: 478,403 (rank 33rd)
known for: rock n' roll hall of fame, a sea world, movies Major League 1 and 2

Kansas City:
pop: 441,545 (rank 36th)
known for: "the city of waterfalls," being mistakenly identified as the capital of Kansas

Instead of wiping the floor with these teams the White Sox are COMPETING with them? WHY???? This is not an expansion team! The Sox should be worrying about ALCS victories over the Yankees, not hoping to squeeze by the Twins.


you're absolutely right,we should be beating these teams to a bloody pulp.but we are not.and that is because we have a owner who has absolutely no sports business savvy whatsoever. instead of going out and trying to put forth a honest effort towards winning something,he would much rather just rather try to luck up on a championship.i.e,2002 anaheim angels,2003 florida marlins.but the problem is that..THIS IS CHICAGO!!!!!!.and miracles like that just don't happen with the sports teams in this city.i mean think about it people,have any of the teams in this city ever cinderella'd their way into a championship???????.it's not just reinsdork,it's all of the owners in this city.they just don't have enough guts to go for the jugular!!!!!!!

kempsted
12-13-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by bestkosher
are you still a flub fan, you never noted in your message of the change
Ooops. Nope. My post was incoherent. I had a longer post in mind but decided I was rambling and cut it short. Sorry.

Weird as it may sound to some I just much preferred going to games at Comisky than Wriggly. Also - the perverse side of me - I always like underdogs. Outside of Chicago the Cubs appear to be an underdog. When you get to Chicago you see that the Cubs are in the catbird seat and the White Sox are the underdog.

doublem23
12-14-2003, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by Frank the Tank
I don't think the Sox will ever match the Cubs appeal in this city, but we can certainly close the gap.


Bah... The Sox used to outdraw the Cubs every year... It's just a wane and gain scenario. Unfortunately, when it rains it pours.