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cornball
12-10-2003, 09:04 PM
According to insidethepark.com Mike Cameron will be on the Oakland A's next year.

Reported to have agreed to a 4 year, 24 million dollar deal.

DrCrawdad
12-10-2003, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by cornball
According to insidethepark.com Mike Cameron will be on the Oakland A's next year.

Reported to have agreed to a 4 year, 24 million dollar deal.

Is Cameron a BillyBall type of player?

ScottyTheSoxFan
12-10-2003, 09:37 PM
speaking of cameron...


we should really bring back jim parque

pudge
12-11-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Is Cameron a BillyBall type of player?

Totally not, which is what makes this so surprising. BillyBall does not steal bases, which will no doubt frustrate Cameron, unless they plan on setting him loose. Also, BillyBall hates free swinging, high-K players, a la Tejada.

But, BillyBall is big on defense, which Cameron certainly has. That is the ONLY reason I can imagine this deal happening.

JasonC23
12-11-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by pudge
Totally not, which is what makes this so surprising. BillyBall does not steal bases, which will no doubt frustrate Cameron, unless they plan on setting him loose. Also, BillyBall hates free swinging, high-K players, a la Tejada.

But, BillyBall is big on defense, which Cameron certainly has. That is the ONLY reason I can imagine this deal happening.

Where did you get the "hates high-K players" from?? Billy Beane couldn't care less how many times a player strikes out as long as he's getting on base (a strikeout is just another out). Cameron has a lifetime .343 OBP that has been held back a ton by playing in Seattle (check out his home/road splits over the past few years).

But you're right about the defense. Cameron's probably one of the most underrated defenders out there, so that's definitely a big reason why the A's want him.

MHOUSE
12-11-2003, 11:57 AM
I wanna know how come they trade for Kotsay and then want to sign Cameron as well? Is Kotsay more of an injury concern than we thought or will he play one of the corner outfield positions? What's up?

pudge
12-11-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by JasonC23
Where did you get the "hates high-K players" from??

From Moneyball. He calls Tejada "Mr. Swing At Everything"... and he is also big on players who PUT THE BALL IN PLAY. If you put the ball in play, at least you have a chance to get on base, via error or hit, and you can also advance runners.

I've watched Cameron nearly every game since he was in Seattle, and fans here got to the point where they hated him - he struck out a ton, especially with men on base.

I agree he can do better in a different ballpark, but Oakland is not exactly a hitter's paradise either. Plus, since he's still in the West, he'll play a lot of games at Safeco. It's still sort of a baffling move, but I'm sure his defense was a major factor.

MisterB
12-11-2003, 12:32 PM
To shed a little light on this situation, try this quote from Mr. Beane himself:

On the reports of the A's offering a contract -- either three or four years, depending on the source -- to outfielder Mike Cameron, Beane told reporters, "Your first mistake was reading the report. I'll refrain from commenting on any outside free agent."

link (http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82%257E10835%257E1823651,00.html)

MarkEdward
12-11-2003, 03:03 PM
Just to add to the discussion, it's not like Billy Beane would "hate" the stolen base. If I remember correctly, the optimal stolen base percentage is anything over 80%. Between 70%-80% is kind of a gray area in terms of production. Any player under a 70% stolen base rate is actually hurting his team.

So Billy Beane would most likely favor a Rickey Henderson (career SB%: 81) over someone like Brett Butler (career SB%: 68).

jeremyb1
12-11-2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by pudge
From Moneyball. He calls Tejada "Mr. Swing At Everything"... and he is also big on players who PUT THE BALL IN PLAY. If you put the ball in play, at least you have a chance to get on base, via error or hit, and you can also advance runners.

Tejada is referred to Mr. Swing At Everything in Moneyball because he swings at more pitches outside the zone than any other A's player lowering his walk totals. Billy Beane is not about putting the ball in play to advance runners or get errors, its all about OBP.

kempsted
12-11-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by jeremyb1
Tejada is referred to Mr. Swing At Everything in Moneyball because he swings at more pitches outside the zone than any other A's player lowering his walk totals. Billy Beane is not about putting the ball in play to advance runners or get errors, its all about OBP.
This is correct. In fact as any White Sox fan knows a Strike out is often better than putting the ball into play - we lead the league in Ground into Double Play. Yuck

kermittheefrog
12-11-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by pudge
From Moneyball. He calls Tejada "Mr. Swing At Everything"... and he is also big on players who PUT THE BALL IN PLAY. If you put the ball in play, at least you have a chance to get on base, via error or hit, and you can also advance runners.



He calls Tejada Mr. Swings At Everything because Tejada swings at too many pitches outside the strike zone and doesn't walk much. Cameron walks a lot and therefore is Beane's kind of guy.