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View Full Version : Let's All Take A Deep Breath...


Mammoo
12-10-2003, 04:13 PM
...and wait to see what KW does this weekend in New Orleans. If he pulls his pud for the next four or five days, then we've got trouble!

JoseCanseco6969
12-10-2003, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by Mammoo
...and wait to see what KW does this weekend in New Orleans. If he pulls his pud for the next four or five days, then we've got trouble!

Yeah but it's hard not to be worried for our Sox with so many other teams making deals and were sitting here letting every FA go. I hope we're all just over exaggerating things ans KW has a good plan and will pull through with something nice, but yeah we just gotta wait and see.

eriqjaffe
12-10-2003, 04:40 PM
Maybe the master plan is to let the other teams do the negotiating and the signing, and we'll just trade for 'em at the winter meetings. We'll get Colon back after all!

Yeah, that's the ticket.

anewman35
12-10-2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
Yeah but it's hard not to be worried for our Sox with so many other teams making deals and were sitting here letting every FA go.

Check out the Free Agent Tracker (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/hot_stove/y2003/free_agent_tracker.jsp). There are plenty of Free Agents left.

JoseCanseco6969
12-10-2003, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by anewman35
Check out the Free Agent Tracker (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/hot_stove/y2003/free_agent_tracker.jsp). There are plenty of Free Agents left.

Sorry that came out wrong, i meant letting all of our own free agents go without offering them anything.

kempsted
12-10-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by JoseCanseco6969
Sorry that came out wrong, i meant letting all of our own free agents go without offering them anything.
Hmmm. We had 10 free agents. We resigned 4 of them (Thomas, Valentin, Sandy Alomar and Loaiza). Two of them we offered arbitration to and they signed with other teams. We also offered a contract to Robbie Alomar.

lowesox
12-11-2003, 12:21 AM
Patience isn't the answer. This team is behind the 8-ball because of our payroll. We should be out there first. Kenny had it right last season when he traded for ALomar and Everett before the deadline. Now he's waited to long. Most of the good relievers are gone and are bullpen looks awful.

Mammoo
12-15-2003, 09:25 AM
Looks like KW decided to pull his pud this weekend :(:

Hangar18
12-15-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by Mammoo
...and wait to see what KW does this weekend in New Orleans. If he pulls his pud for the next four or five days, then we've got trouble!

Its Apparent what Kenny did in New Orleans this weekend.
Nothing. Ive got an idea, lets handcuff ourselves
with our payroll so that we CANT sign anyone else, and we have
to let our good/useful players go to other teams. Then, during the season, when we NEED those same players back, we end up OVERPAYING for them in the long run after all. smart thinking.

Baby Fisk
12-15-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Mammoo
Looks like KW decided to pull his pud this weekend :(:

All morning I've been thinking about the final scene from The Sand Pebbles, where Steve McQueen has been under a vicious barrage of gunfire, his men have all been killed off, and he's pinned behind a pillar or something, the last man alive in the place, and he starts screaming "WHAT HAPPENED?! WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!?!?!" :angry:

soxtalker
12-15-2003, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by lowesox
Patience isn't the answer. This team is behind the 8-ball because of our payroll. We should be out there first. Kenny had it right last season when he traded for ALomar and Everett before the deadline. Now he's waited to long. Most of the good relievers are gone and are bullpen looks awful.

I don't understand this. If you are "out there first", you'll probably pay a high price for the talent -- particularly FA's. There are a lot of FA's available. As for trades, sure there are some teams that fill their needs. But it also works the other way. As teams see their competition obtaining good players, they may be more motivated to make trades. (Of course, budget constraints are playing a role for all but a few of the teams this year.)

KingXerxes
12-15-2003, 10:42 AM
This is worrysome. The fact that the White Sox have no ability to take on salary coupled with the fact that we evidently have a farm system so shallow that we have to overpay for a guy like Valentin should raise a big red flag.

I personally can't believe some of these persistent rumors concerning Konerko to LA for Perez, or Koch to the Mets - if they're true, KW should jump all over them and try to close the deal even if he's not getting exactly what he would like.

I for one would rather have seen Thomas and Daubach playing first, and Marte closing. Given that scenario, I would simply walk away from K and K - even if I got nothing in return.

Let's say you could unload those two for some middle range prospects, well then you pick up about $12 million in salary flexibility - and you really haven't lost anything at all due to the fact that you have (or had in Daubach's case) guys readily available to step in. Then use the savings to shore up middle relief and grab an outfielder - Nope!

I just get the feeling that KW is in love with his existing roster, and is overvaluing it - like the kid at lunch who can't figure out why nobody is willing to trade him a Big Mac for his can of King Oscar Sardines (in mustard sauce). Yeah the sardines cost more - but nobody likes them.

soxtalker
12-15-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
This is worrysome. The fact that the White Sox have no ability to take on salary coupled with the fact that we evidently have a farm system so shallow that we have to overpay for a guy like Valentin should raise a big red flag.

I personally can't believe some of these persistent rumors concerning Konerko to LA for Perez, or Koch to the Mets - if they're true, KW should jump all over them and try to close the deal even if he's not getting exactly what he would like.

I for one would rather have seen Thomas and Daubach playing first, and Marte closing. Given that scenario, I would simply walk away from K and K - even if I got nothing in return.

Let's say you could unload those two for some middle range prospects, well then you pick up about $12 million in salary flexibility - and you really haven't lost anything at all due to the fact that you have (or had in Daubach's case) guys readily available to step in. Then use the savings to shore up middle relief and grab an outfielder - Nope!

I just get the feeling that KW is in love with his existing roster, and is overvaluing it - like the kid at lunch who can't figure out why nobody is willing to trade him a Big Mac for his can of King Oscar Sardines (in mustard sauce). Yeah the sardines cost more - but nobody likes them.

There are one or two other threads today on Valentin being sought after by other teams. So, while I also was a bit dismayed that we felt that we had to sign him for $5M, KW may be able to turn this into a real positive.

It is important how KW values his roster. But it is also important that he understand how other teams value these players. Those are all parts of the poker game. I haven't been a fan of KW in the past, but I get the sense that he's been learning from past mistakes. Also, on the minor league side, he might very well have simply been dismantling the previous administration's system in favor of one set up the way he thinks will work.

KingXerxes
12-15-2003, 11:25 AM
Time will certainly tell.

poorme
12-15-2003, 11:29 AM
Although I'm getting pretty irritated, I can see why he wants to wait until after the non-tender deadline.

Mammoo
12-15-2003, 01:16 PM
When did the Sox become the Expos and Brewers :?:

ChiSoxBobette
12-15-2003, 03:30 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mammoo
...and wait to see what KW does this weekend in New Orleans. If he pulls his pud for the next four or five days, then we've got trouble! [/QUOTE

THIS WEEKEND IS OVER MAN!

CubKilla
12-15-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Mammoo
...and wait to see what KW does this weekend in New Orleans. If he pulls his pud for the next four or five days, then we've got trouble!

Looks like trouble. But seriously, is anyone legitimately shocked that the Sox did ZERO in New Orleans this weekend? This Organization, the owners, and the people employed within the Organization are a joke. To hell with all of them. Impress me from this point forward White Sox or the only game I'm going to in '04, until a commitment to win is re-established (was there ever one to begin with), is Opening Day..... and that's to see the renovations to USCF because that has nothing to do with what is shaping up to be the biggest offseason disappointment in the AL Central.

MRKARNO
12-15-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by CubKilla
Looks like trouble. But seriously, is anyone legitimately shocked that the Sox did ZERO in New Orleans this weekend? This Organization, the owners, and the people employed within the Organization are a joke. To hell with all of them. Impress me from this point forward White Sox or the only game I'm going to in '04, until a commitment to win is re-established (was there ever one to begin with), is Opening Day..... and that's to see the renovations to USCF because that has nothing to do with what is shaping up to be the biggest offseason disappointment in the AL Central.

You mean you werent excited by the sox selecting Steve Girilli in the Rule 5 draft?

Hangar18
12-15-2003, 05:44 PM
YUP. They Accomplished Nothing. And know why?
BECAUSE THEY SET AN ABSURD & UNREALISTIC PAYROLL CEILING.
Handcuffed and Blindfolded, they set out to build something.
And acquired nothing. Not Surprised at all. Theres a Reason This Organization DOESNT WIN. What gets me is they Continue year in and year out, to Repeat these same mistakes.

voodoochile
12-15-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Hangar18
YUP. They Accomplished Nothing. And know why?
BECAUSE THEY SET AN ABSURD & UNREALISTIC PAYROLL CEILING.
Handcuffed and Blindfolded, they set out to build something.
And acquired nothing. Not Surprised at all. Theres a Reason This Organization DOESNT WIN. What gets me is they Continue year in and year out, to Repeat these same mistakes.

Well, you are half right. They didn't set out to build anything and they succeeded.

I don't think the Sox made a fair effort so far this off-season. They took the money for Colon and sunk it back into a player who is already here for the next 3 years then took the rest of it and offered it to the sole remaining semi-talented pitcher available which immediately caused another team to decide to go after him knowing they could beat the best price offered and not have to worry. Anyone expect the Sox go say 3/$24M when the O's offer Ponson 3/$21M? It isn't going to happen...

Hangar18
12-15-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


I don't think the Sox made a fair effort so far this off-season. They took the money for Colon and sunk it back into a player who is already here for the next 3 years then took the rest of it and offered it to the sole remaining semi-talented pitcher available which immediately caused another team to decide to go after him knowing they could beat the best price offered and not have to worry. Anyone expect the Sox go say 3/$24M when the O's offer Ponson 3/$21M? It isn't going to happen...

From what I understand Voodoo, this is exactly what just happened, which is why I stated in another thread that Ponsons not coming. The Sox wont raise the ante